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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2903409#Post2903409


Originally Posted by unchien
Here is my view on control: Most of us respond to these situations by letting our emotions control our actions. We are passengers in a driverless car careening down the freeway. Helpless victims to the whims of our WAS's gone wild.

You do have control. Just not in the way you see it. This isn't about controlling your W. This is about *your emotions about your W* controlling you. You can't handle the extreme emotions and want to do something, anything, to soothe yourself.

I've been there too, I am not judgmental about this. Take back control by separating your actions from your emotions. Try spending a day doing absolutely nothing about your situation. No texts, no reaching out. Breathe. Suffer. FEEL your emotions and just let them be.

Eventually if you work at it your mindset WILL change. You will recognize your emotional state and be able to take a pause before making any decision. That pause, my friend, is control.



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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2903514#Post2903514

Originally Posted by sandi2
Your W left you b/c of how she feels. She was fed up with you and the MR. According to previous information you have given us, she is filled with a lot of anger and doesn't want you talking about anything other than the kids. IMHO, that's a clear indication that your love & commitment is not the issue that is preventing reconciliation. You seem to believe you can change her mind by talking about the relationship. She has told you she does not want it. Even after you heard she cheated, you want to discuss it. Let me tell you something, and please listen. If your W left you for any other reason than healing and working toward reconciliation.........then she sees her business as private. In other words, she doesn't believe you have any right to say something about her seeing OM. That is the thinking of modern women these days. She won't be impressed by your threats. Neither will she be impressed if you endure her affairs.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2903555#Post2903555

Originally Posted by Rose888
I don’t want to analyze you. I want you to analyze yourself. And this is rooted in my core believe that we only have control over ourselves, and that the core principle in Divorce Busting is that one partner’s changes can change the relationship.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
I truly believe that as long as there is breath in the lungs of a human, they can change. Just like tom said that the men can change, meaning LBHs can change, so too can WAWs change. We get LBSs that come here all the time saying "My spouse is so stubborn that once they make up their mind they won't go back on it." Yet that same WAW took the most sacred vow anyone could take, in front of God and witnesses, and are now going back on it. So if they can change their mind on that, they certainly can change their mind again to recommit to the marriage.

Also, the post quoted is pure gold, but one thing I want to reiterate, because it was so important for my own understanding in the thick of my sitch, is that this does not happen overnight. Notice that smartcookie denotes "4 years ago". Her journey to being numb, and giving up, started 4 years prior. And this is why the WAW will claim on BD that "they were never happy". It has been so long that in their estimation it was always that way. We LBHs struggle mightily with this concept. And while the truth is somewhere in the middle (she was happy at points in the marriage) her perception is her reality. And we do ourselves NO favors by bucking against that.

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Originally Posted by LH19

I was thinking about this more last night. IMO manipulation happens when words and actions don't match.

I looked up the definition of manipulation as follows " to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage".

So she texts you that she "love you". Does her actions match her words?

I looked up the definition of "love" as follows: "unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another"

So based on the information above her it looks like her actions are NOT matching her words.

So lets go back to the definition of manipulation: " to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage".

It’s a huge comfort to know that she has you to fall back on if things go badly for her. You've already proven that you'll jump at the "I love you" breadcrumbs thrown your way. You need to pull that safety net away entirely.

She needs to fully believe that you will not be there for her if she chooses to return, and that if she wants to come back she's going to have to work for it.

You can't tell her that, she'll never believe it. You have to show her that beyond a doubt with your actions.



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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1321863

Originally Posted by Punktmann


I'm not lecturing, (I did a lot of this myself early on...) but I'd like to point out what "pushing" does to them.

It really wore on me. It didn't break me down
and make me feel warm and loving toward him. It did
the opposite.



I have asked him repeatedly not to want
answers about our M or relationship right now -
because I don't know, and I can't go there at the
moment. If I could, I wouldn't be in my own apt.


Even if they didn't verbalize this, they feel this way inside. They need space from the pressure.

Things I learned in my sitch,

R talk is pressure
Anger is pressure
Those stupid little digs we all let slip are pressure
What it will do to the kids is BIG pressure
Adding to their guilt, even unintended, is pressure

Plus - it made the guilt worse.

I would have liked to have read this a long time ago. I still have a mountain of frustration and anger, but understanding helps.



Best,

Punk


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904618#Post2904618

Originally Posted by Steve85
As a former control freak myself, I can tell you that letting go of control is such a better place to be in. I am much more relaxed an laid back than I was before. IC had a big part to play in that. This is why I am such and advocate of IC (I was staunchly anti-IC before my sitch!) because it paid such big dividends for me in becoming aware that 99.9% of things ae out of my control. And walking around angry about what I cannot control was a miserable place to live.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904755#Post2904755

Originally Posted by Yail
Mar, I've wanted to write for the past few days, but kept backing off. The truth is I'm not really here on the boards much anymore, and I hate to be only semi-present.

I wanted to say hi, as another lesbian on the boards. There are not many of us. I'm glad you found Wonka's threads. They were the best I found in all the history and helped me immensely. I think I read every one. The tone of the board has changed over the years and I always appreciated Wonka's very balanced perspective, and nuanced approach to each individual scenario. I think that is important to remember: there is a script, there are general guidelines and phrases you will hear repeated over and over. But each situation is nuanced, and you know it best. It's a tough balance between knowing your own sitch the best, and not falling into the "oh no, MY sitch is WAY different than anyone else" head-in-the-sand approach.

I like what Core wrote to you. Do not beat yourself up over what you "should" have done. We all make decisions based on the information we had at the time. Your perspective has changed, but I don't think anything you did was "wrong". You just act differently going forward with your new information.

Your W has gaslighted you. Don't feel guilt over your own actions just because she made you feel like you were the crazy one. Gently bring your mind back every time you start feeling like it was all your fault. I always liked reminding myself that "I'll take my 50% of the blame, and leave the other 50% to her". It helped me.

If I might suggest a path forward: go slow. Take your time, do not make rash decisions or blanket statements. Try to do more listening than talking. This has two benefits. 1) In the event you both decide down the road to reconcile, listening is the best path there. But more immediately 2) Listening gives you insight. With her making YOU feel like you are crazy you should pause before trusting any of her decisions. If it turns ugly (and I truly hope it does not) you are best armed with information on things she says/offers. Speaking less right now might be your best way to protect yourself both emotionally and later legally.

You state you have children. Be there for them. Show up for yourself. Lean in to whatever brings you comfort, and work on accepting that you won't have any final answers for a very, very long time. You embrace the chaos for now, and embrace the unknown. Every time you look ahead and see two paths a mysterious third option will show itself that you didn't see coming.


I wish you small moments of peace in all of this. You are so strong.


Wonka:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&id=6672


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2905025#Post2905025

Originally Posted by Yail
I did not take marriage lightly. I was prepared to fight. But you both have to be moving in the same direction. I don't know if leaving and taking her at her word is the best for you, but I can say that it was for me.

You need to truly sit with it and turn off the noise and hear what your own soul is telling you to do without guilt and without societal pressure moving you either way.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904957#Post2904957

Originally Posted by harvey
I've worked on my covert contracts. In my marriage my XW controlled our sex life. It wasn't terrible (1-2/weeks), but it felt stale. If I did things for her (loving things, chores, etc.) and she wasn't in the mood, it would often make me disappointed or upset. I did things with an expectation that I'd be rewarded. I'd let it fester inside. I think it's a bit normal for a guy. I've really tried hard to break free from that. I still do things for my GF, but without expectations. And sometimes, I say no. I try to keep all of our interactions flirty and fun--without the expectation that it will lead to sex. To be honest though, my GF is much more "sexual" than my XW, and she likes that I lead our sex life. Our sex life is fantastic. Hopefully, that isn't just limerence.

I've learned women don't want wishy washy guys that are always asking them what they want to do. I know where my GF likes to eat, where she likes to have a drink, etc. Instead of asking her what she'd like to do, I will say "I feel like having a drink at [a bar she may like]", and she's usually like "sounds great". Other times, I choose the place I like. If we have a free weekend, instead of asking her what she wants to do, I will tell her that I'm in the mood to take a road trip to a specific place. It's just a different mentality.

Getting through my divorce forced me to control my emotions and expectations. I try to be a rock for my GF--calm, cool, and collected. Nothing's going to bring me down. smile

The thing I've worked on the most is to truly listen to my GF. Women aren't looking for us to fix things--which goes against our nature. I don't even have to agree with what she's saying, but I try to validate the feelings behind her words.


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