Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
I am not sure, I'd have to go back, but I believe you were warned about the impact of you dating on your kids. You have been dating since March of 2019.....but your D wasn't final until 11/4/19. That is the kind of thing kids in the 11-18 year old range can really resent. "You gave up on mom and family months before you were D'd!"

I know you are convinced of parental alienation....but you have provided the ammo for it yourself. Your relationship with your daughter is your responsibility. So it sounds like you have a choice. An R with your GF, or an R with your daughter. This is why many experts suggest that divorced parents do not date until their kids are 18. There is a lot of empirical evidence for this, though it mostly related to step-fathers. But the statistics are irrefutable. The chance of minor children being sexually abused skyrocket when a man who isn't their father is introduced into the home. But the impact of GFs on minor children is still a factor.

This is why we suggest not dating. The complexity of another person thrown into the mix can make a toxic situation even more toxic.

Go back 1 1/2 years ago and imagine if Wolfman had prioritized being the best father he could be over everything else? Food for thought.


Last edited by Steve85; 09/17/20 02:36 PM.

M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Hey Wolfster! Good to see you back but sorry to hear things aren't going better!

Quote
To top it all of my ex has brainwashed my daughter to hating me and my GF. So I guess my question/comment is this. What do I do? My GF and I are now arguing a lot more, my daughter absolutely hates my GF and never even gave her a chance. Do I continue down this rocky road or do I jump ship?


OK, so you've heard us talk about limerence and one thing you might want to consider is that this wonderful, awesome R you had with GF was really just the limerence phase. It takes a good year or two to get past limerence and really see the R for what it is, so now that the feel-good chemicals your body was releasing are beginning to subside, things may not seem so great after all.

If your D hates your GF then there may be something to that. One huge issue when dating with kids is the person you are dating can be a master of pretending to be a great mom in front of you while being something completely different when you're not around. My suggestion there would be to talk to your D and ask her why she feels that way, and when you do talk to her take her seriously and listen and validate. She may throw some stuff out that you feel is unfair or untrue, but consider it anyway. And like I said, validate everything she says.

Quote
Half my heart is saying to let go the other half is saying once some of this stress is worked out, it will get better. Also, do I let my kids dictate to me who I date.


Well you want to be happy, but yes you should consider what your kids think. It's a big impact to their life. We have to make many, many sacrifices for our kids, and limiting who we date is definitely a consideration. Personally when I started dating I kept my GF completely separate from my kids for a long time. I didn't see her on the weeks I had the kids. First I told my kids about her, then waited even longer to introduce her to them. Even after introducing her I did not have her sleep over when I had the kids. The kids are grown now and the two D's are on their own so it's not a big deal anymore.

Quote
My ex has a BF and the kids were taught not to tell me anything, meaning even if he was doing something wrong the kids wouldn’t tell me.


Don't pry, but do ask them to let you know if they ever feel their safety is at risk. You might tell them that if something is wrong but they feel like they can't discuss it with you, that you'll find a therapist they can talk to.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 343
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 343
Likes: 1
WM,

I'm going to come at this from the other side. And my thoughts echo what Steve has posted above.

The final line he posts is GOLD and how i choose to live my life... Being the best father i can be - my children have a selfish WW mother - so I WILL be the rock in their lives.



From the other side..

WW introduced kids to OM 3 days after she moved out - he spent the night there a few days later..

Consequence of this - my eldest and middle ( 8 and 6 ) hate him... Its nothing i have said - i don't get involved. They are too young to understand the cheating etc, but it doesnt matter to them..

I would never do what she did anyway - but it was a stark reminder - Keep the children away from these things.
I have an amazing relationship with my kids, but also see it from their side now. My eldest ( D8 ) has no respect for her mother - NONE... She is open about wanting to be at my house 6 out of the 7 nights. The mindset of my daughter has nothing to do with anything i have said - we dont speak about WW... Its how i treat her and i am there for her - We talk, we always do things together, we cook together, we wash the car together, we go for walks / bike rides together.. She knows i am reliable and she is my priority - Dont get me wrong... I date, but i keep it away from the children. They are unaware of it.
From the WW perspective... I must be "bribing" or saying things to turn the kids against her.. She cannot / doesnt want to admit that the atitude of the kids is a consequence of her poor decisions or lack of qualoty time she spends with them.

It has nothing to do with me bribing or alinating her - during lockdown in the UK we were stuck at home every day, apart from our 1 hour - but we still did things as a family - where as WW just sticks them in front of the TV or ignores them when OM is there. Kids see this and they will draw their own conclusions.

Look at Josephs thread.. Once WW walked, his focus was Kids kids kids.. In your sitch, i would have cemented a solid foundation with the children before dating, - Become their rock , while WW did her crazy WW stuff - as they had already had a rough time with the seperation..


Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
Originally Posted by Steve85
. "You gave up on mom and family months before you were D'd!"



Thank you steve
Steve you were right about not dating should have waited. But this statement ^ I did t give up for 7-8 months. I tried to show her I changed, I tried talking to her about how we could repair the marriage. The kids saw me trying. So what was I suppose to do? She was full steam ahead. So that would be upsetting if they feel like I gave up. 1. I didn’t want divorce
2. I tried like I said for a while.
As far as parent alienation. I have text messages between my daughter and ex, where the ex is calling me a loser, don’t talk to him, don’t worry you don’t have to spend a lot of time with him, be careful what you say to dad he will try and take you away from your mom. Telling her to hide things from me like her phone, terrible how I don’t spend every second with them when I am cooking. And it goes on from there. I would think that is pretty bad.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Hey Wolfster! Good to see you back but sorry to hear things aren't going better!


If your D hates your GF then there may be something to that. One huge issue when dating with kids is the person you are dating can be a master of pretending to be a great mom in front of you while being something completely different when you're not around. My suggestion there would be to talk to your D and ask her why she feels that way, and when you do talk to her take her seriously and listen and validate. She may throw some stuff out that you feel is unfair or untrue, but consider it anyway. And like I said, validate everything she says.

AS thanks for the response I appreciate it. This comment ^ it’s hard for me to tell. For the first month after meeting my GF all she would say is, she is too nice. That was her biggest complaint for a while. I am working on listening to any complaints and validating. One of her biggest now is, I love my GF more than her. I try and show her so much love, I don’t know what to do. That’s why I go to therapy with her once a week. I am trying so hard!!


[quote=MrBrside]WM,

Look at Josephs thread.. Once WW walked, his focus was Kids kids kids.. In your sitch, i would have cemented a solid foundation with the children before dating, - Become their rock , while WW did her crazy WW stuff - as they had already had a rough time with the seperation..


Hey Mr. B thank you for the insights. That last quote is so good. I have to go by that. I want nothing more than to have my kids “back”. These last 2 years have been so difficult. My GF stood by my side for such garbage, but my kids will always be number 1!! I hate breaking people’s hearts. I feel like it has to be done. I so wanted a family again, and she made me so happy for so long!!! I hate when you guys are right!! Lol


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 343
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 343
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Wolfman

As far as parent alienation. I have text messages between my daughter and ex, where the ex is calling me a loser, don’t talk to him, don’t worry you don’t have to spend a lot of time with him, be careful what you say to dad he will try and take you away from your mom. Telling her to hide things from me like her phone, terrible how I don’t spend every second with them when I am cooking. And it goes on from there. I would think that is pretty bad.


Sounds harsh - but if i were in your sitch, my focus would be on proving her wrong.. By actions, not words.

One thing that stuff with me was a close friend explaining how dad let him and his siblings down..

Mum cheated and left dad... His dad became the rock, while Mum lived the WW life with OM. They rarely saw mum as she went full speed ahead on her WW journey..

2 years later dad met GF.. ( now married ) - she didnt like the kids, and they got pushed aside.. At the same time, mum was waking up from her crazy ways.. My friend has very little to do with his dad now.. He went from being an amazing dad when they needed him most, to somebodyy they see a few times a year - over 1 woman..

Made me realise that nobody is worth losing my kids ( or grankids for ) - The dads decision to put the woman first saw his relationship with 4 children crumble, 1 daughter self harm, and now only seeing his grandkids a few times a year..

Food for thought !

I'm not saying dont date - but be the support for the kids first.


Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Wolfman
For the first month after meeting my GF all she would say is, she is too nice. That was her biggest complaint for a while. I am working on listening to any complaints and validating. One of her biggest now is, I love my GF more than her. I try and show her so much love, I don’t know what to do. That’s why I go to therapy with her once a week. I am trying so hard!!


First of all let me commend you for taking your D to therapy, you are an awesome dad! No question of that. Second, if your GF being "too nice" is the biggest complain she can come up with, then this sounds like a case of teen rebellion. My younger D was about the same age as yours at BD. Even though my XW was the one that had an affair and left, I became the lightning rod for my D's raging storms over the whole situation. She treated me very badly for a good year after BD. But I held my head high and continued to try and be the best parent I could be to her and her siblings. A couple of years later we were on vacation in Arkansas and she and I went for a hike, and she brought up the D, and said (paraphrasing, it's been a while) "you know dad, most people don't stay married forever. You did everything you could to save it, but you and mom had twenty great years together and raised us and we turned out pretty good, so I'd say that was a really good run." I was really proud of her for saying such a wise thing! And it really warmed my heart, and at that point I knew we had survived it and were all going to be OK. So hang in there, continue being a great dad, she is probably still grieving the loss of the marriage and hasn't reached the acceptance phase yet. When she does things will be much smoother with her I am sure.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Hi Wolf,

Welcome back. Sorry to hear things are not better.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
What do I do?
Stop arguing with your GF. Have a calm discussion with GF. Listen and validate her. Make a joint decision about how the future relationship should be. Weigh her words heavily.




"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Wolfman
Originally Posted by Steve85
. "You gave up on mom and family months before you were D'd!"



Thank you steve
Steve you were right about not dating should have waited. But this statement ^ I did t give up for 7-8 months. I tried to show her I changed, I tried talking to her about how we could repair the marriage. The kids saw me trying. So what was I suppose to do? She was full steam ahead. So that would be upsetting if they feel like I gave up. 1. I didn’t want divorce
2. I tried like I said for a while.
As far as parent alienation. I have text messages between my daughter and ex, where the ex is calling me a loser, don’t talk to him, don’t worry you don’t have to spend a lot of time with him, be careful what you say to dad he will try and take you away from your mom. Telling her to hide things from me like her phone, terrible how I don’t spend every second with them when I am cooking. And it goes on from there. I would think that is pretty bad.


The truth, we LBSs love to get hung up on the truth. The truth isn't what your daughter is dealing with, she is dealing with her perception. Maybe she noticed you trying for 7-8 months. Maybe she didn't. What I can tell you is that she knows when GF was introduced and she knows when your D was final. That sequence will be top of her mind and define your R with your GF to your daughter.....FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE.

As far as #2, Mr B nailed it. Action, not words. Your daughter, even if for a time she believes your W's words, will eventually allow your actions to trump what her mother is telling her. Kids are not as gullible as you think. My prediction is that if you were to break up with your GF, and continue to be the best father you can be, your daughter would eventually see through her mother's alienation. Right now they have a common enemy: your GF. So they are bonded in unity against her. Your W is using your daughter's hatred of your GF to turn her against you. So this is why I say your choice directly in front of you is a R with your daughter, or a R with you GF. I know in a perfect world, you would be able to balance the two. That you could keep both, have both rock solid in a vacuum, and that one wouldn't affect the other. Unfortunately we live in a the real world where it is never that cut and dry.

Last edited by Steve85; 09/17/20 07:21 PM.

M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
W
Wolfman Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 703
Well it looks like so many of you were right. Jumping into another it not going to last. So after 1.5 years with my GF I broke up with her yesterday. There was just too much arguing. She had a lot of insecurities and our age difference started to come out. Things that she would get upset about I don’t see as a problem. I know if I was her age then maybe. I hurts a lot. But now it’s time for me. Time to work on me and get use to being alone. I really wanted it to work so bad. I tried so hard. But I had no voice in the relationship. AnytiMe I would voice my opinion on things there would be an argument. Which would wind up me agreeing with everything she said and apologizing for how i made her feel. It’s hard to feel like there is hope when a relationship for 19 years failed and now this. I definitely have grown, this forum has taught me so much, yet it was not enough to save it. I am certainly not saying I am perfect, I made a lot of mistakes and tried to correct them. But then she would complain about something else. Honestly I am going to need time for myself. I am going to be so afraid to put myself out there again.

For anyone who is new and reading my post or posts, listen to the veterans here. Everything they said was right and came true. I thought I knew better, I thought I would be the exception. Well guess what, i wasn’t. What they tell us to do is HARD, but it works and they are right. I really hate myself for not listening and doing what I was told. My emotions ran the show and I got hurt, hurt my kids and hurt my family. Now hurt my GF. I acted out of fear and it got me nowhere. I am a fool and this just stinks. Sorry for the rant but I am hurting and down right now.


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Wolf, onward and upward my friend. We all make mistakes. Some mistakes last a second. Some last a year and a half. You lived, you learned, and you are better for it.

Hang in there, you're young and have time. Take time to heal and try to mend your R with your D. You'll never regret that.

Also, be a voice of reason here for others going through it. I get thrown in my face a lot that I can't possibly know how something feels because I've never been through it personally. Had the fact that I have not been through a D thrown in my face recently by a veteran here. You've been through a lot of what LBSs struggle with. You are uniquely qualified to speak through experience. So use that to help others here! It can be very cathartic!

Last edited by Steve85; 09/30/20 01:40 PM.

M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard