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Mar252 Offline OP
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Bl,

Thank you for the response. I have been blaming myself. I believe if I had found this group before I confronted her with the evidence of the A. Things would be much different now. I had her attention when I left but returned too quickly hoping that we would resolve it all in MC. That totally backfired. I should have never come back until she expressed remorse and agreed to end all contact with OW.

A year later and we are worse off now.

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Mar,

You did what society programs us to do and what you thought was right. We can all go back and pinpoint things we could've done differently. You can probably go back even further and say "I shouldve gave in here, stopped a fight there, went on another vacation". Maybe in both our sitches a better T would've fixed things. The possibilities are endless. What we know is you made commitments and vows, and are honoring them. She chose to leave and has something broken in her which was there before you and if things progress they will be there after you until/if she self reflects and gets help.

We can all beat ourselves up but it doesnt help. We'll all go through the phase(s) of doing it but please dont stay in that mindset too long. It helps to go back and reflect so you can change however blaming yourself for both her mistakes and your own doesnt help. You like every other person made mistakes and many of which shouldn't be marriage ending. She has lied and manipulated quite a bit in the last year and it can be easy to be convinced that you're in the wrong. Take on you mistakes, learn from them, work on forgiving yourself and dont take on her blame. Leave that for her.

One day at a time!


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
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Mar252 Offline OP
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Core,

THANK YOU!! I needed to hear that.

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Mar, I've wanted to write for the past few days, but kept backing off. The truth is I'm not really here on the boards much anymore, and I hate to be only semi-present.

I wanted to say hi, as another lesbian on the boards. There are not many of us. I'm glad you found Wonka's threads. They were the best I found in all the history and helped me immensely. I think I read every one. The tone of the board has changed over the years and I always appreciated Wonka's very balanced perspective, and nuanced approach to each individual scenario. I think that is important to remember: there is a script, there are general guidelines and phrases you will hear repeated over and over. But each situation is nuanced, and you know it best. It's a tough balance between knowing your own sitch the best, and not falling into the "oh no, MY sitch is WAY different than anyone else" head-in-the-sand approach.

I like what Core wrote to you. Do not beat yourself up over what you "should" have done. We all make decisions based on the information we had at the time. Your perspective has changed, but I don't think anything you did was "wrong". You just act differently going forward with your new information.

Your W has gaslighted you. Don't feel guilt over your own actions just because she made you feel like you were the crazy one. Gently bring your mind back every time you start feeling like it was all your fault. I always liked reminding myself that "I'll take my 50% of the blame, and leave the other 50% to her". It helped me.

If I might suggest a path forward: go slow. Take your time, do not make rash decisions or blanket statements. Try to do more listening than talking. This has two benefits. 1) In the event you both decide down the road to reconcile, listening is the best path there. But more immediately 2) Listening gives you insight. With her making YOU feel like you are crazy you should pause before trusting any of her decisions. If it turns ugly (and I truly hope it does not) you are best armed with information on things she says/offers. Speaking less right now might be your best way to protect yourself both emotionally and later legally.

You state you have children. Be there for them. Show up for yourself. Lean in to whatever brings you comfort, and work on accepting that you won't have any final answers for a very, very long time. You embrace the chaos for now, and embrace the unknown. Every time you look ahead and see two paths a mysterious third option will show itself that you didn't see coming.

I wish you small moments of peace in all of this. You are so strong.

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Yail,

Originally Posted by Yail
The tone of the board has changed over the years

Would you please elaborate? I've seen other posters allude to the change as well and wonder what it used to sound like vs. what it does now and if one approach was more effective than another.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
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Mar252 Offline OP
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Yail,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Your post felt like a warm embrace definitely coming from the heart. I am trying to get my emotions in check and see this entire sitch from a more logical perspective. I don’t think my wife knows what she wants. One minute she is telling me she wants a S/D and the next she is taking her IC advice and not wanting to rush into any decision. This week she has made an effort to make conversation in the evenings but very emotionally detached and distant. I personally think she is wrestling with her core belief against D and her relationship with the OW.

I have made it clear that I will not share her in any sense of the word and it is all or nothing as far as our MR goes. She continues to claim that OW is just a friend and she will not end the friendship. This is where we are at an impasse.

Trying to figure out how to give her space so that she can make a decision one way or the other but she cannot continue to be in this M and eat her cake too. All of your advice sounds spot on.

Our D is 24 still living at home but just starting her professional career. Just earned her Masters and beginning her full time job. So we were just on the cusp of being empty nesters.

I really need to GAL as per the advice on here. I know you mentioned you are not around much but I would really appreciate a continued dialogue with you. I just began reading your story today.

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hi Mar,

I'm so sorry this is happening. Know that there is a wonderful community here of folks who have gone through and are currently going through really similar situations.

I want to second what others have said about taking care of yourself physically and mentally. Do whatever you have to do to carve out time for sleep and self-care. My IC has referred to it as going into power-saver mode-- use what energy you have first and foremost to take care of yourself and just don't worry about the other stuff right now. Don't beat yourself up for anything you might have said or done in the past. None of that matters. Let it go and worry about today-- that is enough, don't you think? smile

I also want to add my voice as well to calling out the gaslighting and how truly horrible this therapist is. Please, do not listen to any of that garbage. As Yail says (Yail is very, very wise) trust yourself and listen to your gut.

I also have an ambivalent cake-eater in the house with lots of flip-flopping over the past nine months... it hasn't been fun. (We're currently on R attempt #3, and it has taken a long time for my H to really understand if we want our M to work, then she has got to be out of our lives forever.)

I would say take the time you need to know in your heart what you want. Don't draw a line or make an ultimatum you aren't ready to enforce-- that has been a hard one for me. I've held for the longest time that I won't work on a M with a third party in the picture at all, but I haven't been ready to say I won't BE in an M and kick him out if he can't let go of the AP (so far). However, I've come a long way and am getting to a place where I'm authentically OK being on my own. Having a harder time wrapping my head around what is best for the kids, but I know I could do it if I need to.

Originally Posted by Mar252
Today she tells me, the T told her not to jump into a separation or even begin contemplating a divorce until we sincerely attempt to transition our R into something new if possible.

Wondering what might be meant by this? My H went through a phase of "maybe this is just the next evolution of our relationship" (meaning, we are best friends and co-parents while he is living with AP)... is this where she's headed here? I ended up setting a boundary of not not listening anymore to his fantasy scenarios or how he feels about her, which has really helped me.

Hang in there, Mar. You've got this. My #1 piece of advice is self-care, right now.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Hi Mar,


Welcome aboard this crazy train. Sorry you have to go through this process. I am a better person having gone through it. I believe everything is an opportunity for personal growth. Grab this opportunity by the horns and focus all your energy on you. We can't control other people, but we can control (and change) how we interact and respond to them.

Boundaries are to protect you. Boundaries are to protect the relationship. Multiple boundaries have been crossed by your W. It is your job to enforce your boundary to protect yourself. This is done through actions, not words. To many people focus on trying to state their boundaries. Actions speak louder than words.

"This is not working for me" should be your guiding thought. She needs to jump through hoops to get you back. She needs to FEEL the fear of loosing you. With OW involved, that feeling might not come. Missing you might be the feeling that draws her back to you. Again, we can't control other people.


In any case, get your mojo back. Reinvent yourself. You deserve better than this. All is fair in love and war and if you want to attract W back, learning new skills in seduction will help.


Anyway, I hope you get the support you need here and I will follow your thread. Work has picked up for me so I am not here as much as I would like, but will post when I can.


R2C





"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Mar, I am so sorry you are here. I have so many similarities in my situation that make me deeply empathetic to your position right now.

You have received some golden advice from some of the wisest voices on this forum. I don't have much to add, but wanted to re-iterate how damaging gaslighting can be to your mental health. In hindsight, I wish I had spent less time analyzing what was happening in my spouse's head and spent more time focusing on what was happening to my own head. Writing here more often with specific instances would have been helpful to me (because other's can often see gaslighting before we can see it ourselves). As would identifying it with my IC and spending some time each session debunking the lies (which I didn't do but wish I did).

Hang in there and keep posting.

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May, RTC and Sage that you so much for the support and encouraging words. My W and I had a huge blowup yesterday and like so many others on here, I got the I love you but am not in love with you anymore. After 21 years together she emphatically said that she doesn't want our marriage anymore. Wants us to definitively separate. So now, I have a decision to make, begin living separate lives in the same home or just get my affairs in order and leave.

I love my W with all of my heart and soul but I am done begging her to love me back. I really don't think the consequences of her actions are going to hit her unless I leave. I think she will feel it most acutely during the holidays.

To all the LBS, if you had the option to stay or go when you first had your BD's what would you have done? I am open to all advice and opinions.

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