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Eagle3 #2914722 02/09/21 01:44 PM
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The thing is that I suggested already when I was in the other country when he stated he would come over that he could stay over in the house for a short time with the children but that I was not going to be there.

If I say now he can't stay over then I'm not firm in my decision taking towards him.
This was a firm boundary I made and don't want to change this now.
I actually do want him to be with the children for a whole week.
This way he will know what it is to take care of 3 teenagers.

I won't be far away. And the children know they can always contact me.

Maybe this wasn't the best decision I took here, had to ask before speaking to H...




Last edited by Eagle3; 02/09/21 01:46 PM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Eagle3 #2914723 02/09/21 01:57 PM
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I need to refrain my wording as above it is not clearly explained.

1st difficulty: H always wants to stay in the house when he comes over. His view is that it is also his house and I can't refuse him to sleep here, in the spare bedroom of course.

2nd difficulty: I made a clear boundary that if he was coming over to the house, I would not be here. Since he wanted a divorce, we will not be living under one roof anymore.

And to be honest, I don't want to be in the house with him. He kicks on drama and I'm the target (that's why he always wants to stay in the house) so it will actually be worse for the children. I don't want to put them through that again...

Last edited by Eagle3; 02/09/21 02:02 PM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Eagle3 #2914744 02/09/21 09:47 PM
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Stick with your boundary then. You stay somewhere else, he has the kids for a few days in the house You're right, having to feed and take care of his kids for a few days might be good for him. He's mad because you will be out of his reach - he can't push your buttons, he gets to worry about you possibly being out on a date with another man (I know you aren't, but the cheater begins to worry that WE could do the same thing to THEM). He also can't get you to agree to an "arrangement" where he gets to have his OW and still have you too.

Stick to it. If he were to suddenly come to his senses and realize what he's losing, it's much more likely to happen if he has to face the reality of what post-divorce life will be like.

Plus you deserve a break from raising the kids!

Eagle3 #2914747 02/09/21 10:56 PM
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Eagle, you do not have to hold yourself to boundaries that no longer make sense. And I would not give a fig what H thinks. Do what is best for your kids. If I were your kids, I would feel unprotected and maybe even betrayed if Mom left me alone with angry crazy mean dad who I am mad at for a week.

Also you are not going to teach him what it's like to raise teenagers. First, it's only a week. Second, he is in MLC. He will leave saying it's so easy and you are a wimp who spends too much money on the kids, etc.

Tell him to rent an AirB nearby and the kids can visit him.

He says -- But you told me blah blah blah

You say -- That is no longer the case, sorry.

You don't have to explain or engage. But if you really want to answer, say -- That is not healthy for the kids. They can visit you at your place, even if your place is temporary.

I am forgetting your sitch at the moment but this is why you need to have a clear parenting plan, and it needs to establish that you have sole use of the marital home at least until trial. Don't believe me? Just read my story and see what can happen if you don't.

Last edited by Gerda; 02/09/21 10:58 PM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Eagle3 #2914750 02/10/21 12:55 AM
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Gerda- I don’t think he’s been a mean dad? I definitely don’t think she should stay there with him, she just becomes the maid for his visit. And truthfully, the teens will probably prefer to stay in their home. I think it’s ok to follow through with the original plan.

Eagle3 #2914754 02/10/21 01:31 AM
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Hello Eagle

A few thoughts occur:

This way he will know what it is to take care of 3 teenagers. - Probably not. He will be with them for a week, the level of care is questionable.

I actually do want him to be with the children for a whole week. - Noble sentiment. But asking why? Dad isn’t Dad right now. Are you wanting it for the kids sake, your sake, to show him a lesson, or to promote a relationship with his children? He should want to be with the kids - and more than for a week. It is not your job to facilitate the relationship between H and the children. It is just your job not to destroy it.

If I say now he can't stay over then I'm not firm in my decision taking towards him. - Boundaries can and need to change as situations change and evolve. Boundaries are for you. They protect you. They demonstrate how people are to treat you. Boundaries are a clear premeditated action towards a disrespectful behaviour from someone. They are not a reaction.

This was a firm boundary I made and don't want to change this now. - That’s ok. Asking yourself why every now and then ensures the situation still warrants a boundary or action and allows you to alter your action to suit the evolving situation. Things have evolved since your trip, ensure your actions is still warranted and suitable.

1st difficulty: H always wants to stay in the house when he comes over. His view is that it is also his house and I can't refuse him to sleep here, in the spare bedroom of course. - This is somewhat true. At the moment, yes it is his house as well. Unless you have a restraining order or such, refusing him access is not legally enforceable. It is good that he knows that he is to sleep in the spare room. If you were there and basically going to a different room every time he spoke meanly or disrespectfully, I suspect his “wants to stay in the house” would lessen. What would things be like if he didn’t want to stay there? If he wanted to stay somewhere else?

2nd difficulty: I made a clear boundary that if he was coming over to the house, I would not be here. Since he wanted a divorce, we will not be living under one roof anymore. - This particular action to H’s behaviour troubles me. Boundaries are for you to take control during a disrespectful situation against you. Boundaries are your actions when <blank> happens. They shouldn’t greatly affect your life and what you are doing. For example, H when you come in the living room and start swearing at me it’s demeaning and hurtful, and I will leave the room. So, you go to another room and continue to do the reading your book or whatever you were doing (more or less).

However, you leaving the house is a pretty big change. Basically H controls you by him coming over. Now, if you were like, Hey, a week visit with the kids. Great! I’m going on a vacation, see you next Friday. That would be something wouldn’t it?

I’d consider staying in the house. Why should you change just because H “wants” to come over? You look to be reacting to future confrontations from H, over the drama he will most likely bring up. That is understandable. You aren’t looking for a fight. However, boundaries are enacted when the event occurs not because it might occur.

The boundary upon living under the same roof when he wants a divorce, I do see it. If you need to leave, by all means do so. It is usually not a good nor recommended idea to leave or live elsewhere during separation. In a trail where one can state that they never, at any time, lived anywhere else but in their house carries some weight. Of course, this is just a week away, you didn’t move out like H. It’s more like a vacation. I would treat it more like a vacation than a boundary.

Maybe you just need a vacation. Of course, your kids might want come along then. smile


With OW1 you had him leave the house, even bought sheets and pillow cases, and he finally did get the hint and left. Then a while later without OW1 in the picture he returned. Things got troubled and he left again and now has been visiting every 4-6 weeks. This current agreement is what he is working upon. This agreement was made when you didn’t know about OW2, or she wasn’t involved yet. The situation has changed. Therefore the agreement probably should change.

I do see and understand your thoughts regarding being under the same roof. What I am looking out for is you and your kids. You guys are the important folks in all of this. I’ve asked several questions and suspect you will either strengthen your resolve or to relax it a bit. There is no right answer in all of this by the way. You know best the situation you are living. And I support you!

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Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Eagle3 #2915122 02/16/21 08:22 AM
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First and foremost, thank you for your honest opinion.

As DnJ suggested, I took some time to think about what to do best in this situation.

First of all, I think about my children. Do they like being alone with him for a whole week? No, they don't like this.
Do they like to spend a whole week with me in the house, including him. No, been there, done that numerous times, they don't like that.

Secondly, I think about myself. Am I happy to leave my house because he comes to visit and absolutely wants to stay in the same house? No, I don't like that.
Am I happy to stay in the house with him for a whole week? No, I don't like that.

So what's the best decision to make here? Simple, there is no right decision. There is no decision we can all relate to simply because you are with someone in your life who thinks only about himself and there is no way you can change or alter his mind.

I decided to look at it differently. He left the house 6 months ago and he comes and goes as he pleases. He does this because he has to come to maintain a relationship with his children. Is this sincere, no, he does this in order not to be portrayed as the bad one by the family, the friends. In his mind, leaving your wife, OK, that's between 2 people, leaving your kids, that's a whole different story, and he knows it all too well as his uncle did the same and the whole family hated him for that.

As always said on this forum: If something doesn't work, stop from doing this and try something else. Well, I'm going to do this. Whenever he came home for several days in the last 6 months, I was always there for him. As kml says, "she just becomes the maid for his visit." That's exactly how I see it as well. He always counts on me to arrange everything. This was already quite the case before MLC, it is now 1000x stronger.

So now I don't want to give in to what he wants. The evidence is there, it turned him back into a monster. He just needs to feel that I can't be there for him anymore. Will this change the situation? Most likely not. But for me it will be the 2nd time (1st time when I put him in an apartment last year) that I once did not give in to his manipulative and controlling behavior.

That is why I have decided not to stay in the house. It will be a very difficult time but I think it will be the best decision to take in a very bad situation.

Last edited by Eagle3; 02/16/21 08:25 AM.

Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
Eagle3 #2915155 02/16/21 05:45 PM
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I think that's well thought out.

Eagle3 #2915190 02/17/21 01:12 AM
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A good level headed rational approach.

Definitely agree with getting out from under his controlling behaviour. And you are not his maid. Good job!


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Eagle3 #2915777 02/28/21 03:26 PM
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Back with my kids today, back to my own home, after a nerve-racking week.
However, I am convinced that I made the best decision.

The children are genuinely happy that I am back and that they can leave that week behind. It was not always easy for them. The first night I already got messages from my kids stating he had drunk enough and started crying with them, constantly saying that he felt like he was abandoning them, which they actually confirmed. S16 has also been pretty honest with him. About the fact that he is not the same daddy anymore, that he is never around, that he hurt us a lot, he even talked about OW1 and how he felt about it. STBXH reacted defensive a few times if the wording did not suit him.

The weekend was quiet. He kept himself well with them for 2 to 3 days. From day 3 the anger / laziness reappeared. S16 got up to 5 last-minute messages to get the groceries, just as he was almost home when he left school. Then also easily angry if they were a bit too active. Drinking every night, luckily not until he was completely drunk.

One evening, however, it did escalate, in which case he called me and I got the blame again, now it was about my mother, that she never liked him (totally not true) and that for this reason he would not show goodwill as a result if we got divorced. I then immediately jumped to that topic and asked what he had already arranged for the divorce this week (was the reason he was here he had told me before), and he said he was not here for that reason but for the kids . But if I wanted to arrange that I had to come over. I guess he didn’t expect me to say, ok, I will be there first thing tomorrow morning.

And I did. The conversation was hallucinatory. Cold, without emotion, just prentending he was working on his PC. I stayed as businesslike as possible and also behaved as good as possible (friendly and calm) and went through the checklist I had through the notary to tick off all the points. Everything was arranged within 1.5 hours, subject to many reproaches that I was a lucky person to receive all of that (simply the things I have the right to have??)

The most important points are that I have full custody, he has not been difficult at all about this and that he will start paying alimony from 01/03. The house will be sold and will be divided 50/50.
Furthermore, he would come every 6 weeks for 1 week, no longer in the current home (definitely because he cannot cope with the care of the 3 children).

So the draft has been made. I will now do the necessary to arrange everything with the notary. He will come back to sign in 6 weeks. I hope we can handle this then because I have reached the point where this is really necessary now.

After this conversation, he immediately jumped into his car, he still had to go somewhere...(running behavior?)

At the beginning of the week I received messages up to 4 times where he asked if I did not want to come over for dinner. (This was before the making of the draft) I went once, purely because I wanted to see the children. I didn't stay long either. The other times I declined and said I had other plans.

From what I understand he is incredibly fanatic about sports. He is training for a triathlon. The depression seems much less present now. So again back to heavy replay behavior. I find it so incredibly strange he had made progress a few months ago and that he is now back in full replay phase.

He has again seen all the people he has had some contact with. All very short, max. 1 to 2 hours. And then he apparently keeps up appearances. His mother is the only one he has invited over for dinner. He did not contact his father at all. Actually a copy paste of the first year after BD.

The wardrobes are a bit emptier again. He has taken more clothes and sports equipment which he has not used for years.

As for my feeling, I am proud of myself that I managed to take the lead to get the business side done. I am fully convinced that we need to finalize the divorce in order to have control of my own life again (definitely financially). I also do this because from what I read in several threads, that the sooner you arrange this, the better you get it finalized in a proper way since they still feel guilt in a certain way.

However, every time I see him I yet again have that double feeling. This is not the man I fell in love with so it could not be so difficult to let him go, but at the same time I still have that urge to be there for him, because you can see that he is in internal pain. Why always that double, gnawing feeling that I just can't get rid of.


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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