[Eagle3]

Some advice needed...

Everybody is speaking about the fact that you need get an own life but I find it very difficult to find a balance. Me and the children have a good life now, definitely when he is not @ home. But whenever he feels like coming home and actually does it he wants to do things together with me and the children like going out to restaurants etc. (never alone with me thought, and I don’t ask it either)

He told me once that he gave up “his happiness” and chose us because these are the values he stands for, and I really have the feeling that this is what he is doing now and believes it. I then told him that the worst thing he could do is to stay in our relation because this is what people expect of him (and that he hurts me more with that then anything else) and that if he felt happiness with her that he has to choose for that but then no contact with me, only for the children. He immediately said that he did not meant it like that…

What I want to say is, I love him more than anything in the world, but we are in the best years of our lives and I want to share good things with our children. The past 2 years have been hard for all of us and I want to make the best out of it now which is starting to work bit by bit, but this is very difficult to maintain when he is constantly interrupting things with his crazy behaviour and attitude.

Some questions as I don’t really know how to handle them:
I would like to plan a trip with the children in the coming months and honestly, the way he is now I’d rather would like to go without him. How do you deal with this?

He asked if we maybe would come over the end of the year for a week to the other country. I know he now asks this because it is ‘his duty’ to ask us since we are his family. Not because he wants us to be there. I thought to let my children go without me but they don’t want to do that. They only want to go if I go with them. I can see they are often afraid of his crazy behaviour and drinking.
Same thing with the skype sessions we do twice a week. He expects to have this with all of us, but since I’m “his friend” now and not his wife, is it a good thing to always be available for him? (the children also want me to be there)

[peacetoday]

Hi

There are programs to help family and spouses of alcoholics
check online if interested
This is in addition to this program which has much more info on MLC
It has more information on dealing with a problem drinker/spouse

Many MLCer will drink so it is up to us to see if the situation is a safe ones for our kids
and if we need additional help in dealing with the added issue of alcoholism and MLC

[kml]

He was never an alcoholic but when he started drinking he couldn't stop until he was quite drunk but at least stopped then.

This IS an alcoholic. Sounds like he was always an alcoholic, he's just not as well controlled now. You need to break through your denial about this.

If you have Al-Anon meetings where you are, you should think about attending them. Sounds like midlife crisis/depression has worsened his underlying alcoholism. You can find support with other spouses of alcoholics.

You asked about my ex. His first MLC came after he turned 40, and a couple years later he had a brief affair with a temporary coworker. I found out and began DBing him and our marriage. We reconciled (he never left the house although he was planning to) and we actually had several very good years after that. (Although, like I said, the kids were always waiting for the other shoe to drop). Then as he was approaching 50, and after a few concussions that didn't help, he asked for a divorce. I convinced him to stay through the holidays so the kids wouldn't always associate Xmas with him leaving. I suspect, but don't have proof, that he was cheating on me again at that time.

To me, it felt like "three strikes and you're out". He had cheated on me once in the first year of our marriage, during his first MLC, and now his second. A couple of months after he moved out, when he filed for divorce, I let go completely. I knew that I could never trust him even if he came back so I was done. I had peace in my heart that I had done everything possible to save my marriage and felt released. (In retrospect I also suspect that he cheated more than I knew, or at least flirted with the idea of it more than I knew.)

After my divorce I came to recognize that my ex was also a narcissist. We all were valuable to him only so long as we made him look good. In retrospect, we all went along with the things that HE wanted to do, but he never returned that favor. In the years since our divorce, he has neglected to help our adult children in several situations where they needed financial help (he makes over twice what I do and can easily afford to help).

I'm thankful that the (very) young woman he is remarried to was not one of his affair partners - she came along about a year after we split and I have no animus towards her. In fact I feel kinda sorry for her as she is getting the old, worn out version of the guy I was married to. I wouldn't have him back now if he was handed to me on a silver platter.

I'm glad to hear that you are on financially stable ground. I often note that those women who are not financially dependent on the spouse do often have an easier time of it as their decisions about their marriage are not based on financial need.

[kml]

Also - my ex wasn't any kind of a drinker, but I do suspect he had a very mild form of bipolar disorder. He had infrequent "blue" periods in his younger days, and lived most of his life in a hypomanic state - very energetic and effective. In his forties the "highs" became a little more irrational, a little more pressured, a little more like a train barrelling down the tracks that can't stop. I think his multiple concussions in his 40's made this worse. But his underlying issue was an essential inability to be satisfied - he had a great career, lovely home, wonderful kids, loving and attentive wife, but nothing was ever enough - it was like he always had to have some challenge or adventure or eventually OW to make him feel better.

I look at my marriage now and can see the good parts - we made a good team in many ways, and our sex life was good always. But I also see how I was probably the ideal spouse for HIM, as I have a strong sense of self and was not phased by his negativity and criticism. It's so nice now though, not walking on eggshells around a difficult person who has trouble being happy. And every man I have dated since my divorce has valued me more than my ex has, and none have tried to change me. It's nice being appreciated for who I am.

[Gerda]

If you have the money to do the trip, I would go but make a fun trip out of for yourself, finding a cute place to stay apart from him. You can come and go as you want, and kids can sleep where they feel most comfortable. I tried to do this so my kids could see my MIL, who refused to see me.

Other than that, I would not go to the Skype conferences. I would say hello and then say, "I will let you guys have fun!" and disappear.

I know it hurts to hear that stuff he is saying about choosing, but I think you are interpreting it wrong. Everything he is saying is a lie he is telling himself. He doesn't even know what he feels or thinks. He's just using another way to say the same thing all of our spouses said, to tie you in knots and make you feel horrible about yourself or like it's your fault.

My H was a drinker too. And kept us hanging like yours does. If you have a chance to read my thread, I would suggest that; you can see all the mistakes I made and not make them.

I know how hard it is with the kids. But I protected my kids from the truth about their dad and I think that was a disservice. You can stand for the marriage and pray for your H by yourself and with your kids if you are a faith person, but that doesn't mean you have to participate in this project to hurt you.

[wooba]

I would like to plan a trip with the children in the coming months and honestly, the way he is now I’d rather would like to go without him. How do you deal with this?

Just plan the trip and go without him! I would just be honest and inform him that you are taking the kids to [location] from [this date to this date].

He asked if we maybe would come over the end of the year for a week to the other country. I know he now asks this because it is ‘his duty’ to ask us since we are his family. Not because he wants us to be there. I thought to let my children go without me but they don’t want to do that. They only want to go if I go with them. I can see they are often afraid of his crazy behaviour and drinking. Same thing with the skype sessions we do twice a week. He expects to have this with all of us, but since I’m “his friend” now and not his wife, is it a good thing to always be available for him? (the children also want me to be there)

I would suggest avoiding mind-reading. He invites you, if you want to go, then go. if you don't want to go, then don't go. The children don't want to go without you and you don't want to go anyway, then don't go! Don't do his work for him. If he truly values spending time with children, he will move mountains to do that. Skype calls - you can explain to the children that you will be right there physically but won't engage on the call. If the children don't want to speak with him without you actually on the call, then maybe the call should not be forced upon them. When my H calls to talk to the kids, I put it on speaker and I just do stuff around the house when they talk to each other.

It sounds like you may have difficulties enforcing your boundaries. There are many great threads to read on that topic.

[Eagle3]

Thank you all for sharing your advice.

It feels good to talk about this with people who are dealing/ have dealt with this MLC madness.
I have read many of your threads now and can only express my huge respect for all of you, Peacetoday, KML, Gerda and Wooba.

I have a specific question in regard to bounderies.

When he was with OW and the time after, when he was living at home and crazy behavior (OW withdrawal etc.) I was able to put clear bounderies on him and these actually worked very well.

We knew he had to leave to the other country for work and he always had an excuse to postpone the move until I friendly forced him to do so since I also needed some time on my own and together with the children since living with someone in MLC is not easy.

The purpose was that he would be 4 to 6 weeks abroad and then come back for about a week. He is here now and I must say that things are going quite well. He is calm, normal drinking behavior, gets groceries, makes dinner some times, works in the garden, talks about work, normal interaction with the children etc.

The only thing I noticed very well is how introverted he is on certain moments during the day.
He also still does his sports on a daily basis like he started doing the last month abroad.

I just live my life like I do when he is not here but we also do all sorts of stuff together, on his request.
Just like what a married couple with children would do but no affection.
I know in my heart that this isn't quite right altough I currently don't want anything more with him either.
All we had together as a couple is dead now, even in my head.
But there is still love from my side of course, otherwise I wouldn't be standing.

My question to you: Do I have to put a boundary on this kind of behavior?
Do I need to say. We can't be just friends and do all this stuff together and still be married?

Basically, is it necessary to put certain bounderies since we are not a couple, but still married and acting as friends?

Also, is the above behavior Limbo, or am I using the wrong word?
(English is not my native language and I think sometimes I misinterpretate words)

[Gerda]

Eagle -- Don't label anything. Try not to notice what he is doing one way or the other. I know it's next to impossible, but try. You may have seen in my thread I thought I was "stirring the pot" and his MLC is now seven years and counting. And I have realized he may always have been mentally ill on top of that. Labeling will hobble you because it will give you expectations.

Don't make a boundary in order to affect his behavior or tell him what's what. It won't work.

Make a boundary because you need something. Do you need to not be around him when he is with the kids or are you willing to suffer a little because you think the kids like it? I am not saying it's good for the kids. Looking back, I think I should have kicked my H out long before I did. But if it is actually nice to be all together and he is not damaging them with his behavior and weirdness, then decide if you feel like being there or not and do what you want. Maybe some days you'll have plans. Maybe some days you'll feel like reading a book in the hammock while they are doing stuff in the garden. Maybe some days you'll leave for the weekend when he comes home. It's up to you, what you need to have peace. And you don't have to have a hard and fast rule if you don't need one yet.

I know a couple who has a relationship like brother and sister for many years. It's very sad on some levels but they are Catholic and very devoted to their kids and have made peace with chastity. I'm not saying that's a good solution, but just that you don't need a rule based on what the world expects for your sex life.

[peacetoday]

As far as doing things together at his request

It is up to you

In my situation, I wanted to keep things calm
When XH visited, I was kind and cordial as best as possible
he rarely wanted to go anywhere with me...just the kids
but he wanted to talk and hang out- I let him
Just to see...what would happen-
I wanted the M, I played it out till the end when he Married OW- then that was it
It gave me time
much needed time

To do therapy
to heal
to get a handle on my pain and the new situation
single mother
working mom
To work on Gal and letting go

So if it buys you time to figure it out
If it gives the kids a chance to bond with him...

There will come a time...
when we know
Trust that
We watch the MLC behavior to see if he turns back-
it takes time, usually a few years at least and sometimes more depending on each individual situation


You sound strong
You have limits
You are standing for you are also creating a new life with your kids
You are healing'
Therapy is important now
grieve the M
it is over

If you are friendly, and it works as a friendship
a new R can develop
even if its just for co-parenting


The other thing is to consider is is he cake eating
enjoying family time...best of both worlds
while he goes and plays in his new MLC life- without family ties

It is a delicate line we walk as LBS

No decisions need to be made today

I trust you will find your best path




hold on to that for now and let him do

If you dont want to spend time as a family...You can say No...maybe another day
You may be busy

[Eagle3]

Thank you Gerda and PeaceToday.

With your strong words you actually make it easier to deal with it.

Exactly what I needed over the past week!

Thanks for that.

I was wondering, most of the time there is a trigger why they slide into the MLC tunnel.
Is there also a trigger to come out of the tunnel or is this simply a gradual process?

Can I read some threads about this somewhere?