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A Message from Michele
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Hi! I've been reading posts for the past week and desperately need some advice. My W52 and I (W50) are married and have been in a lesbian relationship for 21 years. We have been experiencing issues with our R for a few years now. Two years ago we decided to attend MC. It was rough, but last year I really felt we were making progress and on the path to resolving many of our problems. Feb 2019 was our 20th anniversary. I decided to buy her a beautiful engagement ring (she never had one) to symbolize a new beginning for our M. Took her to dinner to a fabulously romantic restaurant, she was presented with a customized menu congratulating us both on our anniversary, ordered champagne and gave her the ring, along with a promise of a new beginning. She was shocked and we had a fantastic evening.

We continued MC and working on us. Fast forward to Memorial Day 2019, we had a huge bbq, as has been our custom for the past 16 years to kick off the summer. It went well, we had a bunch of new people over including a new co-worker of her's that I was meeting for the first time. Everyone was gone by 10 PM that evening. I went upstairs to our MBR and she stayed in the kitchen. About an hour later she hadn't come up so I went downstairs figuring she had fallen asleep on the couch. I hear her talking on the phone in the kitchen and as I approach, I hear her say I love you and I know you've been waiting to hear that for awhile. I was shocked and frozen in place at the entrance to the kitchen. She never heard me approaching. I stood there and listened to the rest of the conversation (her side only) for another 15 minutes, I guess. It became obvious that she was having an A with the co-worker she invited to the bbq that afternoon. I had absolutely no idea there was anything going on between them. The OW had only been working directly with her for a couple of months.

I went back upstairs right before she hung up and absolutely lost it. I threw my wedding ring at her as soon as she came through the bedroom door and confronted her with everything I had heard. She absolutely denied everything and claimed that I was only hearing one side of the conversation and misinterpreted what I was hearing. She actually swore on our daughters life that I had it all wrong. When she did that it actually made me pause and doubt myself. We continued at it throughout the night. By the morning she had me completely second guessing myself. She even suggested I call our T so that I could discuss it with her. Which I did the next day. We went to MC the following Saturday, which was our normal weekly appointment day. Discussed everything and she adamently insisted that I had it wrong. Devised an entire story to explain everything I overheard. She convinced me and the T.

Over the next month the A just escalated and it became painfully obvious. Spending hours upon hours on the phone with her whenever I wasn't around. I started checking the phone bills when her behavior was changing. When we were together, she was constantly texting. The phone never left her which was totally out of the norm. By mid June I confronted her in MC and again she just denied everything. This became our norm every Saturday in MC for the next month. She even had our T convinced that I was just being jealous and insecure. The T confronted me about the jealousy and insecurities several times during our individual talks. I had both my W and T gaslighting me.

In August, I finally had enough and decided to place a recorder in her car, its where most of her phone conversations took place. Needless to say I had all the proof I needed that they were involved in a PA. Apparently my W had paid for 3 hotel room visits and was actively planning a 4th on the recording. I confronted her and told her I had definitive proof that she was having a PA (did not say what the proof was), packed my clothes and left her. Went to stay at my brother's. The next day I phoned our T and told her about the recording and everything that was said. My wife also spoke to her. I was NC for the next 4 days. By Thursday, I couldn't take it anymore and phoned her to arrange a meeting to talk. Came home on Friday to discuss. She admitted to getting carried away and having an inappropriate relationship but denied sleeping with her. Claimed the hotel visits were just a means for them to spend time alone together. Only admitted to kissing her. Didn't believe a word of it.

We went to MC the next day. The T refused to listen to the recording. Admonished me for recording her saying that it was a gross violation of her privacy and went on a spiel about how illegal it was. I lost it in MC, telling them both that I felt I had no other option as I had been confronting my wife for weeks at home and in MC and I just kept being accused of being jealous and insecure by both her and the T. Anyway, my W agreed to back off from the OW and work on us. I agreed to come back home. Note that my W and the OW work side by side on a daily basis. Their offices are right next to each other and they have ample opportunity to be alone as others in the office are usually out in the field.

A few months later calls to the OW start popping up on the phone bill again. Once again I confront her and my W insists that they are just friends and she wants to be able to have a friendship with her moving forward. Back to MC and the T tells me that I have no right to dictate who my W can be friends with. Agrees with my W that she should be allowed to have a friendship with her as my W swears that it is absolutely platonic. I lasted a couple of more weeks with the back and forth and quit therapy. My W continues to see her for IC.

Fast forward a year now and my W is definitely involved in an EA with the OW. I have been fighting her tooth and nail about it and my W finally told me this weekend that she no longer wants to be married. Wants us to separate but has no intention of kicking me out of the house. (The house belongs to her family. We sold our house and took this one over when her mother passed away 6 years ago). She doesn't know what the future holds for us as she has never believed in divorce but knows that our marriage is a disaster and she has no intention of giving up her "friend".

I read The Divorce Remedy and know that I did everything wrong from the fighting, the begging the pleading, and the snooping. The last thing in the world I ever wanted is to loose my wife but I don't know how I can possibly do this or if I should do it. She has been lying to me for a year, our marriage was a mess prior to the A and now it seems unfixable. I don't know if I can remain in my home as a separated couple. Won't be able to emotionally tolerate it. Seriously thinking of leaving. I need to know what the right thing to do is.

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Welcome!

I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome Posting. Please read all of the links as they have lots of great info.

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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We had the separation talk on Friday. Today she tells me, the T told her not to jump into a separation or even begin contemplating a divorce until we sincerely attempt to transition our R into something new if possible. She wants to take it one day at a time and see if we can figure it out.

I canít get past the fact that she is in a EA with her co-worker and wonít admit it. I need to re-read the DR and try to figure out how to begin DB despite the way I feel. The biggest challenge for me is getting out of my funk. I really need to learn how to fake it when I am with her.

On the other hand I am so tired of trying to fix our M. Donít know if it is worth the effort after all the lies. I am so conflicted.

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Mar252
I'm sorry you are going through this. You will find great support here.

Originally Posted by Mar252
We had the separation talk on Friday. Today she tells me, the T told her not to jump into a separation or even begin contemplating a divorce until we sincerely attempt to transition our R into something new if possible. She wants to take it one day at a time and see if we can figure it out.


No more R talks. If she wants to take it a day at a time so be it. When she talks - validate as best you can but don't engage. It will only cause more pain.

Originally Posted by Mar252
I canít get past the fact that she is in a EA with her co-worker and wonít admit it. I need to re-read the DR and try to figure out how to begin DB despite the way I feel. The biggest challenge for me is getting out of my funk. I really need to learn how to fake it when I am with her.


I saw that in your post that you "definitely" know w is in an EA with OW. Is this because you are snooping, recording her again or do you just have that gut feeling? If you are snooping... stop. The reality is that you can't control what your wife does. You can't control who she talks to. You can certainly ask... which you did and she said no... so now what? What are your boundaries around this issue?

Originally Posted by Mar252
On the other hand I am so tired of trying to fix our M. Donít know if it is worth the effort after all the lies. I am so conflicted.


That's valid... so let's put the effort on you instead. What do you think you could have done better in your M? What were your wife's complaints?


M(f): 38
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
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Sorry to hear your story but it is quite familiar. I can't believe, but can relate, to how long it has been going on.

Some of the things you are doing seem to not be working very well. I would coldly analyze those and choose a better course of action. I would start expecting her to lie. Stop engaging her. Pull way back. Guard your heart.

The best thing you can do is to detach from her and start to forge your own path. Find yourself again, find new hobbies, work on self improvement. This is called GAL. This will help clarify what is happening in your world.

Your therapist sounds horrible. I think a lot of them are more concerned with their worldview than actually using CBT (the only evidence based therapy). How could your W be "just friends" with an affair partner? I mean really it's a wonder how this person is practicing. Have you ever noticed when someone tries so hard to convince you of something, that they are in fact lying? The truth is right before your eyes. Unfortunately our emotions can guide them astray and that is why we detach. You did nothing wrong in uncovering this affair. Nothing. Get your mojo back immediately if not sooner. You got this.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by Valeska19
I saw that in your post that you "definitely" know w is in an EA with OW. Is this because you are snooping, recording her again or do you just have that gut feeling? If you are snooping... stop. The reality is that you can't control what your wife does. You can't control who she talks to. You can certainly ask... which you did and she said no... so now what? What are your boundaries around this issue?


Valeska19 - Thank you so much for your response. I occasionally look at the phone bill, but you are right I need to stop. It does me no good. Honestly there is no need to. I've known my W for 25 yrs and I know in my heart and soul that she is still lying to me. You are absolutely on point when you mention boundaries. My lack of adequate boundaries over the
course of our entire R has been the core issue of most of our disagreements. I believe this is my primary problem. I need more guidance to learn how to develop them appropriately.

Originally Posted by Valeska19
That's valid... so let's put the effort on you instead. What do you think you could have done better in your M? What were your wife's complaints?


I realize I have made a lot of mistakes and have many 180's to work on. She and I have both hurt each other throughout the years. We both have/had childhood issues that we needed to resolve. It was the initial reason we mutually agreed to attend MC. Unfortunately, we did not have the right T.

I hope to find another IC for myself soon. Also looking forward to the guidance offered here from those that have already weathered similar storms.

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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
The best thing you can do is to detach from her and start to forge your own path. Find yourself again, find new hobbies, work on self improvement. This is called GAL. This will help clarify what is happening in your world.


Hi Ovrrnbw - I finally realize this. It's the reason I am here. Trying to begin the work to detach and heal myself.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Your therapist sounds horrible. I think a lot of them are more concerned with their worldview than actually using CBT (the only evidence based therapy). How could your W be "just friends" with an affair partner? I mean really it's a wonder how this person is practicing. Have you ever noticed when someone tries so hard to convince you of something, that they are in fact lying? The truth is right before your eyes. Unfortunately our emotions can guide them astray and that is why we detach. You did nothing wrong in uncovering this affair. Nothing. Get your mojo back immediately if not sooner. You got this.


Unfortunately, our T completely botched the response to the A and my wife is still seeing her in IC. I realize that after an entire year of this back and forth that I need to break this pattern and figure out a way to move forward. Please keep the advice and guidance coming. I especially need help with boundaries.

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"The most harmful lies I have ever told are the ones I have told myself".

I just borrowed this from Ginger1. She posted it on another thread and it completely resonated with me. I've been doing this with regard to my M for a long time now.

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Can someone recommend a thread the discusses boundaries at length? Thanks

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I just noticed the thread created by Wonka In the welcome post.

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