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Core #2903090 09/04/20 02:17 AM
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Mumin and U - I agree and disagree on the NGS comments partially. Read and thought that book was great by the way. Here's what I'm trying to work through....I see that I expect certain outcomes by behaving a certain way. My confusion is that I want to behave the way I do. I'm not changing who I am to get something. I don't have a covert contract with just a person, its like I have an expectation that the universe itself will fulfill what I perceived as a reward for good behavior. Maybe I've a covert contract with a higher power. The shame, guilt and outsourcing my happiness, thats definitely NGS haunting me again.

And U, lol at calling out the cognitive distortions. I find them easy to believe as there are daily examples. Those looking for a single dad, do they want the security, the feelings or the man himself? The same can be asked of me as well, am i looking for the stability, sex, happiness or the woman herself to compliment me? Right now I know I'd be looking for the wrong thing.

Yail - youre right about waves. Within a few hours of hitting the board here, I started coming out the other side and a huge part of it was that I was again dealing internally with my part of the martial demise and pain I caused my W. I hope Im wrong on my 5th paragraph as well, I really do. If it were not for my D4, and also seeing the ladies on this board fighting hard to save themselves and their drive for a happy marriage, I may have lost hope of the feminine side of the coin, from the damage done by my W and others in my past. Thank you for your encouraging post.

May - the $hit sandwiches are an acquired taste. Hopefully one doesnt get used to them. I've had my share of negative reinforcement on the relationship end. W was the first woman I really opened up to after years of bad picks on my end. I went for certain types which was my fault. My W I was different with. I fell for her personality over all other features. Still scorned on my end, plenty of which is my fault as well. I came across a stat saying that spouses of my personality type are the most unhappy of all types. Outside of me victiming here again, I hear your take. I can face the future when I get there. If some of this is true, its probably better I dont get in a R but I can decide that later. Your words and the others here do help.

I'm coming around the wave and this victim phase again and see some of the bright side of the days to come. W is dragging her feet. Not battling thankfully but moving slow and she missed a cut off date which is bringing the cost of this up higher if Im to continue pushing this through. There's probably a reason for the stall which is beneficial to her and who knows what for me. I remember her saying she needs to D as fast as possible at the beginning of the sitch. My IC picked up on PTSD related to the D and is going to try EMD for it. We'll see how it goes.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Core #2903092 09/04/20 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Core
Mumin and U - I agree and disagree on the NGS comments partially. Read and thought that book was great by the way. Here's what I'm trying to work through....I see that I expect certain outcomes by behaving a certain way. My confusion is that I want to behave the way I do. I'm not changing who I am to get something. I don't have a covert contract with just a person, its like I have an expectation that the universe itself will fulfill what I perceived as a reward for good behavior. Maybe I've a covert contract with a higher power. The shame, guilt and outsourcing my happiness, thats definitely NGS haunting me again.

I'll go easy this time =)

I have an expectation that the universe itself will fulfill what I perceived as a reward for good behavior.

What do you mean by this?

Originally Posted by Core
And U, lol at calling out the cognitive distortions. I find them easy to believe as there are daily examples. Those looking for a single dad, do they want the security, the feelings or the man himself? The same can be asked of me as well, am i looking for the stability, sex, happiness or the woman herself to compliment me? Right now I know I'd be looking for the wrong thing.


I totally get that you can think yourself into a pretzel. The very concept of being in a relationship can look co-dependent and unhealthy from your vantage point.

The fact is, there are tons of women looking for a nice, funny, single dad. And "women" aren't just a single type. They don't all want the same thing.

Regardless I think it's good to sort out what you want first. All I'm saying is don't worry about whether or not there will be available women out there if and when the time comes. And don't settle just because you found somebody who will spend time with you.

Core #2903104 09/04/20 01:32 PM
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Core - the others have given you sage advice, so i won't pile on.

Instead I'll leave you with this quote:

"“Positive thinking is powerful thinking. If you want happiness, fulfillment, success and inner peace, start thinking you have the power to achieve those things. Focus on the bright side of life and expect positive results. ”

- Germany Kent


Nobody will do it for you. You have to do it yourself.

Life is hard. Bad things happen to good people all the time. Its our choice to pick up and move forward, its our responsibility to learn the lesson and use the experiences to grow and change.

Take care, man smile

Core #2903182 09/05/20 06:55 PM
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U and IW, thank you. I understand and know the universe doesnt reward good people but in the end, man social conditioning does make you think you'd at least have it a little better.

W and I have been getting along with the pressure off now, knowing were filing. Things are going slow however. I temp checked last night after the kids went to bed. I asked if she wants to do this. I didnt say where I was, just asked her take. She took her time and said that she thinks she does and shes following me through the D as I filed. Immediately after I was blamed for making her feel like a bad person and she had numerous reasons for wanting to D. I mentioned something she said in the past and completely denied saying it. I'm reminded that I'm losing a gaslighter, liar here yet she looks like she really believed her lie. Had a bunch of reasons why she wouldnt have said what she said then put it on me. This whole interaction from us both was calm.

I was thinking the other day...I dont think W thought she'd want back in the M. She doesnt know how to return, how to get through the feelings or what she did so she's throwing it away which is easier than looking inward. I really see that I'm going to be fine without her or anyone for that matter but I would rather have a home with two parents for the kids. I see the love would never be the same but then....it never wouldve been anyway. No one even in a happy marriage gets back to the high points. I've been enjoying us taking on the kids together. She often said I have a list of things I dont like about her and yet she last night is the one with a list for why to D. Many of the things are really just pains of living with another human. The stuff she had just bounced off me. In the end however I'm saddened for her as it seems she will not be a peace with any adult unless she gets help.

Should I have brought up the topic, of course not but I chose to as I was filling with regret for not having that last R chat before filing. With her being very much a follower, I have to wonder if she's waiting on me to say something. If I'm vulnerable and say....you know, I dont truly want this, maybe we would rebound. Who knows. I haven't seen actions on her end so I continue thinking I made the right choice and that we'll perhaps have an amicable D. Im honestly ok working on the R or Ding at this point. Ding probably being the better option here. When W is being decent, I actually miss her a little. I sometimes think things must be so much easier for the WW to be able to rewrite the past and make it dark. The bad times I mostly saw as temporary and insignificant. The good times I remember well. Thats what I think is the hardest part, remembering the M being decent. Im surely out of the fog after a year and can say, there really was no good reason for the M to disintegrate as it did. Thats from my perspective however and I know W with her past and her life experiences is built differently, has different thresholds and different wiring.

I cant wait for the end of this sitch. Its taxing. It seems two people who genuinely care for another are tearing apart a family because one holds on to every negative thing in the past as a protection mechanism.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Core #2903238 09/07/20 03:04 PM
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Core ~ this stuff is hard. Gut punches every day.

You initiated an R talk. Pressure pressure.

I notice you sometimes do this and tell us you know you shouldn’t have but you just couldn’t help yourself. I have anxiety too and I know it’s hard but focus on that impulse control. Nothing good comes out of these R talks, you are just temporarily soothing your anxiety (as I see it) by dumping it out.

Hang in there buddy.

Core #2903249 09/07/20 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
I was thinking the other day...I dont think W thought she'd want back in the M. She doesnt know how to return, how to get through the feelings or what she did so she's throwing it away which is easier than looking inward.

FWIW, my H has said this to me fairly explicitly. He assumed the moment the A went physical that our M was over as I would kick him out the moment I found out, and grieved the end of our M long before I even realized it was in trouble. That it would be easier for him to forgive himself if we S/D than stay M. He's held onto this narrative for a long long time.

What I am coming to realize is... all this thinking and processing, trying to figure out where his head is... does no good. It just doesn't matter. He'll have what it takes to look inward and do the hard work, figure out how to realign his own vision of himself with what he's done, or not. Work on trying to get over AP or not. Make amends for what he's done or not. Work on our M or not.

Your W may be in a similar headspace. It may be true that the only reason you're moving down the D path is that she is clinging to made-up negativity in order to protect herself from doing the hard work. I think that is honestly pretty par for the course around here. WASs aren't all bad people. But they make bad choices and can't find their way out of them. They don't want to really own what they've done and so build up stories to tell themselves about how the LBS is so bad, they can never be happy with them, etc.

And... you can't do that work for your W. She'll either do it, or she won't. So far, she hasn't shown she has what it takes to do that work over the long haul. You initiating an R talk like that seems to me it would do a couple of things on her end-- pressure her back into her corner and her cause her to reinforce her own narrative, and remind her you're still there. (Simply asking her if she still wants to move forward with D shows that you're having second thoughts. If you weren't, you wouldn't ask. (I mean, if you weren't having second thoughts and asked and she said actually yes I am, that would be a pretty d!ck move.)

So.... just another reinforcement for you to skip the R talks, and let her do her thing while you focus on you. The work is hers and you can't do it for her, or make her want to do it. Focus on what it takes to make you happy and healthy.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
Core #2903291 09/08/20 11:40 AM
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Hi Core -

Ok, so you initiated an R talk. And once again you got blasted and sent reeling.

I'm not trying to be rough, but do you see the cause and effect sequence here?

1. You initiate R talk.
2. W says something that gives you glimmer of hope.
3. W says something that dashes that hope.
4. You feel awful.

This is why DB says R talks are a no-no.

Every time you have to put yourself back together. And every time you put yourself back together, you are actually moving yourself farther away from the chance of Recon or successful co-parenting R in the future.

R talks are pressure for her and only build resentment for you.


Core #2903733 09/14/20 04:06 PM
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Core ~

Any updates?

Core #2903734 09/14/20 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
I see that I expect certain outcomes by behaving a certain way.



This is the very definition of NGS! "If I am nice then I deserve X!"

Wrong. It doesn't work that way. It's great that you want to behave that way. Being nice because it is the right thing to do is awesome. But God, the universe, karma (I don't believe there is such a thing) owes you NOTHING for being nice. In fact, an unfortunate side effect of our society is that the people that do the right things are not rewarded, at least in this life. It is often the evil-doers that succeed in this world.

This doesn't advocate for being an evil-doer, quite the contrary. Success in this life is not going to translate in the next. Those they stole and cheated and behaved poorly to become billionaires in this life will not get to take that with them into the next. This is what Matthew 6:19-21 is teaching!

The danger in having the philosophy that good things come to them that do good, bad things to those that do bad is that none of us is perfect! So we are all deserving of bad things if that were true.

Last edited by Steve85; 09/14/20 04:24 PM.

M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Core #2903970 09/16/20 05:37 PM
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U thanks for checking in and May, Steve, IW and U, the feedback is helpful. IW I think youre right on how the R talks further cause a chasm.

I continue to struggle not with the reality but the principles. I only believe divorce is the answer in extreme circumstances. Since it was likely to happen either way and since I'm the bread winner, the gov I'm "married to" led me to the decision that I needed to pull the plug. I see my kids happy daily with a two parent household and I still attest that family and love are why we are here on earth. Family first, always. Having it pulled away and my part of it being pulled away I'm coming to terms with as wrong as I think it is.

I've forgiven myself. I came to terms yesterday. I didn't do anything heinous, I had a personal battle to get through and that was ok to do. My wife while affected by my anxiety and ptsd, was not a target and I did not hurt intentionally, if I truly did at all. My actions have been to preserve the M and family, with the exception of filing to cover myself. I disagree with the morality behind my filing but do agree with the need to do it for self preservation.

We are getting closer to a settlement. I am enraged over the fact that I'm likely on the hook for 19 years of child support. On top of that, I'm driven to improve and advance so as I move up in career and society, my ExW who had an affair and ruined my dreams for our family gets a better life every raise I get via child support. She is not driven and has been the type to stay in a low paying job. I get that the money should go to the kids however if 1200/month works ok today, why should she get 1600/m in two years solely because the kids should have a general standard of living at both places? The hard worker is punished. After doing the math, the payments are also way more than the actual cost to raise a child. This is looking at it as a victim I know, I just dont see the positive. My W gets a guaranteed income for 19 years that will likely grow and will generally continue even if I lose my job or cannot obtain a job of similar pay and am underemployed. She has a guaranteed income and I a guaranteed debt. The debt being longer and higher than my current mortgage. The cost of my kids right now, is about 400/m. 1200/m is asinine PLUS alimony. She will actually make more than me if she has a minimum wage job due to my payments to her. It feels like a form of slavery for me to be indebted with a woman who rejected me and my family. Not for 1 to 2 years to get her on her feet but 19 years. For her, I believe in thoughts from Sandi and others that a WW has to hit bottom to change. Well since the state will have me paying enough in child support to get a 3 br townhouse in the best neighborhood here, she'll not hit bottom and may never see growth that could help her and my kids which I'd be happy to see. I'll be forced to always bail her out, which hinders growth from us both.

My W becomes more polarized. Her disregard and disrespect for men in general seems to grow when we talk about the state of the world. I cant think of a man in her life she respects which worries me for my son. I see it alot already, she punishes some of his actions which are masculine traits seen in most boys. I will not be joining in on raising him the exact same way as my daughter. They are different and its ok to raise them differently. I am raising him and my daughter to help ensure their happiness and success. She stopped her counseling as soon as she was served so I know it was only done to give me breadcrumbs and keep me from filing, for whatever reason (s). My fondness of her took a large hit from this.

Overall, my disdain is moving from my sitch to the state. 19 years of those payments means I wont retire early and cant slowly retire through hour reduction or job status lowering for quite some time. I will be a servant to the system. I'll see my W live in luxury, probably in our house while I live in a 2 BR apartment or with my father. I make just enough to not get any assistance yet I would qualify if you consider what I earn after paying her mortgage via child support. This has me struggling on self improvement. No point earning more and getting a 2nd job if I'll owe her that much more and it'll become the new amount I have to pay for up to 19 years. It's like W is rewarded for divorcing and i am punished. I'm losing money, a friend, a wife and half my kids childhoods, she gains financially, loses half the time with the kids and gets someone who was "toxic" not just mostly out of her life but she gets to see me punished for a 3rd to a quarter of life.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
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