Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by Pommy99
We had a talk. He says he needs to focus on his own life and issues right now, that this is bad timing and that he feels he should put an end to all contact but right now it might make him feel worse, in a callous sense.

I was going to suggest to stop MC and any relationship talks etc. until the OW issue was addressed. Things will not and cannot get better until she is out of the picture and he has grieved their relationship. Go back to focusing on yourself and really think about how you want to live the second half of your life. If he wants a relationship in the future you will know. If he does not you will still feel like your in limbo and confused.

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 51
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 51
Originally Posted by Pommy99
So some updates from overnight:
- I went out for a couple of hours in the evening, didn't tell H where I went, but actually just went and sat by a lake in the evening sun. He moped around me all evening after I got back. We started a R talk late evening and H said that situations like this, where he's upset me, make him scared that I'm going to leave. He said he has this pull and need for me and he is scared that I'll go. However, he is feeling despondent that the feelings he wants to feel are not there, and it's been a few months now since he came back.

Whilst I believe he is scared... It doesn't seem like he is scared of losing you... but more scared in a selfish way. If he were scared of you actually going - don't you think he would be doing everything you asked him to? He's not even doing the bare minimum.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I got up in the middle of the night and searched through his iPad. I guess I'm just looking for answers, something to grab on to that tells me to leave. I found text messages from mid-May. Nothing more than "I'll call you back baby", (ugh) but this is a month later than he said contact ended. There was a txt from him on 26th May as well - "I'll call you back" - 4 days before he asked to come home. He's adamant that he hasn't been in contact since then. When he asked to come home he told me he hadn't been in touch for weeks blah blah, and I believed that he really had had a period of reflection, where he'd broken contact with her for at least 6 weeks - not 4 bl00dy days.


Finding this out... did it give you the answers your were looking for?

Originally Posted by Pommy99
So I launched this at him at 3am. Said he had an outstanding capacity for lying. His response was just their friendship hadn't ended on bad terms. They'd agreed to concentrate on their respective marriages in April but there was still a little contact afterwards. (Apparently, calling her "baby" is just a friendly term.) Then I asked him to leave. He said ok. sorry.

- This morning I went over again the events from yesterday, seeing the panic on his face when I walked up to him while he was texting, and how quickly he swiped the message away and somehow managed to delete them by the time I'd asked to see his phone. He is still adamant that it was only yesterday she told him the news about the cancer and he hadn't been in touch since before he came back home. (all this overheard by D16)


He is giving you lots of information here Pommy. Do you see that?

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I took Sage's advice and asked his opinion on what he would do if he were me. He said he truly didn't know.

What a BS response. I know you have kids. Have you ever sat a toddle down after they took a toy and said "how would you feel if he took your toy?". Even if the toddlers can give emotions. Even they can say move past their "I don't knows" to "bad" or "sad".

His answer is not acceptable.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
INow we get to the bit about "us" - he still doesn't have those feelings that he wants for me, he doesn't want the pain of breaking up, he wants a simple and happy life and not a broken marriage, he wants those feelings for me.
I agree he doesn't want the pain of breaking up but that's not the same as recon. Everything else after is just more words.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
As far as he is concerned, OW has no bearing on how he feels about me. However, he feels that our marriage has always lacked a real passionate spark and is questioning what our relationship is built on - it seems to be friendship and loyalty of 20 years, but we've never had that amazing connection (although he said we did before we were married but we never developed our relationship beyond that into a deeper existence). He doesn't know if we are asking the impossible, in trying to achieve something that never truly existed. He wants to ask MC tomorrow (he has a 1-2-1 session with the MC). He wants the pain to stop as much as I do.
I know you are having the R talk but jeez... he needs to stop telling you this stuff. He just emotional spews on you without understanding the pain it may cause you

Originally Posted by Pommy99
So, that's where we are, more tears this morning, I've said I don't know what I feel right now but I do want to make the marriage work. I just don't understand if 2 people love each other, why is it so difficult. He keeps apologizing and saying sorry for ruining my life, that he never wanted to hurt me like this. He wants to do our MC homework tonight (the sensate focus, reconnecting etc).


It is not my place to tell you if your H loves you, but both people need to do the work. Alot of folks make the mistake (myself included here) that its couples work or marriage.. and sure there is a degree of that. But IMHO - most of the work is individual work. Your H is showing no signs he wants to do the work.

Yes some of the work is uncomfortable. If fact - I understand the feeling of "this should be more natural, or feelings should just be there". But they aren't - and he has to make the decision to at least try and do the work to see if would change his feelings. The fact that he isn't - is telling you something Pommy - what do you think it is?

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I feel like we are still running round in circles. However, I am a believer that this will take a lot of time to heal and a lot of the progress is beneath the surface. But he is despondent that things aren't clicking into place. He says its not the "new love/butterflies" that he's after but that sense of connection that leads to a passionate marriage. We have the friendship and loyalty but not the deep emotional connection, and he's not sure whether we can create that if it was never there.
He talks to much to stop spewing his emotional doubts on you. He should talk to his IC about it. Gosh - how painful for you. I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I cant see the wood for the trees anymore. I don't know where to direct my focus or channel my energy. I know you will all say detach and GAL but I'm also questioning whether I should just give up.


Perhaps go back to the questions I asked you. smile

It will definitely help with the detachment and refocus you on working on yourself which may give you answers to the question you ask.


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
Valeska, thank you. You asked me these Qs yesterday:

Originally Posted by Valeska19
Pommy - Based on your posts - it doesn't seem your like H is ready. He "wants" to do the work... but isn't "doing" the actual work. It also feels like you are accepting the breadcrumbs he is giving you as progress yet at the same time criticizing him when he falls short. Your pendulum swings back and forth. How do you calm that?

I also feel like I am still accepting breadcrumbs, and I'm very much not detached. I was more detached after we separated but when he came back and we started MC I started to invest myself more emotionally, and now the M is so unstable and I am also more unstable. I don't know how to calm myself anymore, it seems. I do fluctuate wildly between "this is never going to work", and "keeping the faith". I feel sometimes it depends on what I read on the forum, or the internet. I do know I am constantly searching for answers on the internet - can we ever reconnect, will my H ever find the lost attraction, etc etc. I then read too much and overwhelm myself. It seems the only thing I ever think about is my GD marriage and it's killing me inside. Even in my sleep I'm dreaming about my sitch, or OW, etc.

Quote
The hard truth is Pommy's emotional well being and emotional safety is fully POMMY's responsibility. You keep expecting your H to provide this for you but he can't do that right now (and its truly not his job to). But you can. You have so much power here and yet you give it to him. Why? What are you so afraid of when you choose yourself?

Ask yourself - What can Pommy do to keep Pommy emotional safe? What Can Pommy do to Self Care? Protect her Well Being?Live a life of Honesty and Integrity?

All the answers is within yourself. What will it take for you to look inwards instead of expecting your H to do it for you?
I do a lot to self-care on many levels, I have hobbies that enable me to get out with other people, I keep very fit, I try and focus on work, spend time with the children. But my emotional state is fragile. Even when I exercise or socialize I am constantly thinking about my M. It's unhealthy and I don't know how to break the cycle. Even when H left, he was contacting me or visiting several times a day. It was separation by his rules. I found NC was the best way I could manage myself emotionally. I don't know how to manage myself emotionally, I know I am failing badly, but some days are better than others and I don't know why. Some days I can be happy, upbeat, accept what will be will be, and other days I spiral out of control with little triggers.

I guess the truth is I'm scared, I'm scared he will walk away, I'm scared he wont be in my life. I'm scared of having to start over again at my age! I'm also scared of investing more time for nothing to come to fruition. I just want to sit in the here and now even H is telling me to sit with things now and not worry about what might or might not happen in 3 months. Why do I find this so hard to do?


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by LH19

I was going to suggest to stop MC and any relationship talks etc. until the OW issue was addressed. Things will not and cannot get better until she is out of the picture and he has grieved their relationship. Go back to focusing on yourself and really think about how you want to live the second half of your life. If he wants a relationship in the future you will know. If he does not you will still feel like your in limbo and confused.
He has a 1-2-1 with MC tomorrow. I'm hoping something will come out of that in relation to how he deals with OW (or not). Then I can make a call on whether we continue with MC and how I want to move forward. This has to be a boundary for me. I cannot stay in the M if he wants to remain in contact with OW.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I guess the truth is I'm scared, I'm scared he will walk away, I'm scared he wont be in my life. I'm scared of having to start over again at my age!

^^^^^^^^^^^This is what is keeping you from getting what you want in your marriage. Life will present you with people and circumstances to show you where you are not free. If you can overcome this you will eventually get what you want out of a relationship.

May22 writes paragraphs and paragraphs of words when it can be summed up in two sentences.

Thank you for being honest PM99. BTW WWs know this too and use it to their advantage. WWs are awesome! lol

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 10
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 10
Pommy, just a few thoughts for you. First, we both know that "click" can happen and turn everything around in/re feeling attracted to your partner, because it happened to both of us. If you need a little reinforcement to know you aren't crazy, it happened to me too.

Have you read Esther Perel? You might read Mating in Captivity if you haven't. She talks a lot about attraction, how we want what we don't have, the inherent friction between love and desire.

Finally... wasn't he in touch with her on WhatsApp before? My H told me that they used WhatsApp because it is totally secure and everything deleted gets deleted forever. Wondering if there was some action on WhatsApp that you wouldn't be able to see, not just the few texts. Not to freak you out.

I think your boundary is a great one. Can't work on your M with a third party in the picture.

You've got this.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 586
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 586
Originally Posted by Pommy99

I guess the truth is I'm scared, I'm scared he will walk away, I'm scared he wont be in my life. I'm scared of having to start over again at my age! I'm also scared of investing more time for nothing to come to fruition. I just want to sit in the here and now even H is telling me to sit with things now and not worry about what might or might not happen in 3 months. Why do I find this so hard to do?

You're finding this so hard to do because it IS hard! none of this DB stuff is easy. You recognize your fear. that is already a big step. We were all scared at one point. My fear still lingers sometimes. But you can learn to live with it. You can learn to take control of your life and not have fear impact your decisions. What is so scary if he walks away? Why is it so terrible that he won't be in your life? Isn't it scarier to have a liar and a cheater in your life? Just playing devil's advocate.

I always think about the really horrible things that are happening to people around the world, and how marital problems seem so insignificant in comparison. maybe that could be a method of dampening your fear.


BD: Sep 2019
D in progress
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 51
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 51
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I do a lot to self-care on many levels, I have hobbies that enable me to get out with other people, I keep very fit, I try and focus on work, spend time with the children. But my emotional state is fragile. Even when I exercise or socialize I am constantly thinking about my M. It's unhealthy and I don't know how to break the cycle. Even when H left, he was contacting me or visiting several times a day. It was separation by his rules. I found NC was the best way I could manage myself emotionally. I don't know how to manage myself emotionally, I know I am failing badly, but some days are better than others and I don't know why. Some days I can be happy, upbeat, accept what will be will be, and other days I spiral out of control with little triggers.

There is a ton of pain, and a ton of hurt there. Your struggle makes sense. And suppressing those feelings is hard.. and unhealthy. Is there a way that you can do a version of NC in the house? Create that distance? Obviously a S makes the NC easier as it eliminates the physical part of it.

I get triggered alot so I will tell you what works for me. I have two designated areas in my house that I give myself permission to lose my sh!t in. When I am being triggered and if I can, I immediately go to that room, close the door, and let it out. Cry. Scream. pace around the room talking to myself, etc ( When I'm not home - I look for a space where I can get away. My car, park, whatever.). I give space for my emotion to express itself fully and openly - because what it has to say is so very important. It also calm me down. I'd rather take that 15 mins and do a solid cry - then sob around the house for hours.

Then I set a boundary on myself to not talk about it until the trigger has truly passed. Sometimes this is really difficult as a certain trigger can put me on a rollercoaster for a day or two. . For you - if that means not talking to your H for a couple days.. so be it. If it means you take a weekend away from the sitch - so be it. I feel confident that you can find ways that work for you.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I guess the truth is I'm scared, I'm scared he will walk away, I'm scared he wont be in my life. I'm scared of having to start over again at my age! I'm also scared of investing more time for nothing to come to fruition. I just want to sit in the here and now even H is telling me to sit with things now and not worry about what might or might not happen in 3 months. Why do I find this so hard to do?


This is beautiful honesty and thank you for sharing it. Acknowledging it is the first step because you can now see how this fear is guiding your actions. If you have been in a marriage where Pommy's feelings and thoughts didn't matter (whether to H or to YOU) - changing this is gonna be one of the hardest parts of this whole journey.

Just only H can decide when to change - only you can say when enough is enough.


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,681
Likes: 2
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 2,681
Likes: 2
Hi Pommy,

I don't know your whole sitch but I do recognize something that I went through when my W came back. There seems to be a lot of tension. I would work on detachment (such a DB thing to say)...but seriously just calming down would be huge.

Quote
Even when I exercise or socialize I am constantly thinking about my M. It's unhealthy and I don't know how to break the cycle.


Have you read DR? Do you remember the "stop sign technique"? This is great way to start controlling your thoughts.

Just remember that you control your thoughts. Have that attitude, dominate your thoughts, direct your mind. Be cerebral about this for the time being.

Quote
I then read too much and overwhelm myself.
This doesn't appear to be working. Is it within your power to change it?

Look what you've been through already, how can anything in this life ever scare you after that? You've already shown so much resilience but now you're letting little things get to you? We tell ourselves funny stories sometimes! Tell yourself the story about how strong you are and how you're still learning and growing and pushing and that you will be happy.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by may22
Finally... wasn't he in touch with her on WhatsApp before? My H told me that they used WhatsApp because it is totally secure and everything deleted gets deleted forever. Wondering if there was some action on WhatsApp that you wouldn't be able to see, not just the few texts. Not to freak you out.
Yes WhatsApp was their primary tool for chat. I know there would've been deleted WhatsApp threads. What upset me was that he lied about how long he had been NC with her before he came back. If I'd known he was still calling her "baby" two weeks before he came back (and only a week or so after he'd come back the first time) then I would probably have responded differently.

Originally Posted by wooba
What is so scary if he walks away? Why is it so terrible that he won't be in your life? Isn't it scarier to have a liar and a cheater in your life? Just playing devil's advocate.
I guess like most of us here, we still see some good in our WAS. He wasn't always a bad person (or a person who made bad choices). As much as I'd love to make him a villain so I could detach more easily, I know he's not all bad.

Originally Posted by valeska
Is there a way that you can do a version of NC in the house? Create that distance? Obviously a S makes the NC easier as it eliminates the physical part of it.
I don't think NC is the right approach right now - unless I'm telling him that recon is off the table (which at the moment I'm not).

Originally Posted by valeska
Then I set a boundary on myself to not talk about it until the trigger has truly passed. Sometimes this is really difficult as a certain trigger can put me on a rollercoaster for a day or two. . For you - if that means not talking to your H for a couple days.. so be it. If it means you take a weekend away from the sitch - so be it. I feel confident that you can find ways that work for you.
I do need to manage my triggers better, and find a way to suppress my hurt and anger, and deal with it at an appropriate time. Unfortunately I cannot rest until it is off my chest - that might be 3am or in the middle of the working day. I know Steve85 would say he should be able to tell me he's having an orgy and I will not react. I'm not in that place by a long way.

Originally Posted by ovrrbw
There seems to be a lot of tension. I would work on detachment (such a DB thing to say)...but seriously just calming down would be huge.
It would be huge. I got to the point yesterday where I said I don't want to talk about the relationship, I've had enough talk, I've forgotten what it feels like to have fun and not be emotionally dragged down. I had a nice day and felt calm. During the night I started to feel angry. I rolled over and spooned H and he held my hand - I thought trying to generate some positive feelings in me would help. It did. Early dawn, H heard me sighing and rolled over and spooned me. So that all felt nice.

Originally Posted by LH
I was going to suggest to stop MC and any relationship talks etc. until the OW issue was addressed. Things will not and cannot get better until she is out of the picture and he has grieved their relationship.
H and I had a fight this morning. I dragged up something from 18 months ago. I found new evidence today because it had been bugging me (about whether he had taken a day off work to be with her, which he'd always denied. He had admitted a long time ago they'd met for lunch but had always maintained he'd needed to go to the city for an extra day for an important meeting. For him, no work = no pay). This morning, I looked at his work calendar and sure enough he had taken the day off. I gave him about 4 opportunities this morning to tell the truth and he lied until I showed him. H got angry that I was on his work laptop, and also dragging stuff up from 18 months ago as it was meaningless now. He said he lied because he saw no point in causing more arguments because it was so long ago. I honestly don't know why I needed to do that? Why am I dragging up stuff from 18months ago? Why is it still bugging me? I guess I was manipulating him to test if he is still capable of lying to me, and will continue to do so, unless presented with evidence. I admitted that I had done it to test him. He said it's so far in the past it's not even relevant, whereas I feel that it is still very much part of the present - here we are 18 months later and she's still here. During his solo MC yesterday, he was again told that he cannot connect with me while that door with OW is still open. We haven't discussed it and I'm dropping it for a few days. I just don't want any R talks right now.

H asked me what it means now that I know he lied again. He said he felt like he'd ruined everything again by lying, and it undoes eveything he has been trying to do, he looked completely deflated and beaten down. I avoided answering. He later came up behind me and hugged me and said sorry, told me ILY. (I haven't had an ILY for a few weeks). The good news is that I've managed not to over-analyse. I feel a little bit more in control as I know I'm reaching a make-or-break point. Still struggling to know how to respond to him in the meantime (be loving and try and have a fun weekend, or be more ambivalent and GAL all weekend).


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Page 10 of 11 1 2 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard