Separated 11 wks, WAH wants to reconcile (part 4)

[Pommy99]

Hello all, Help!!

Things have been painfully slow with H, but reasonably positive. I've had my moments of upset, I've been trying to stop over-analyzing everything that is or isn't happening. I actually have found myself in quite a good place for the last 5-6 days.

Until today. I walked in the room and took H by surprise. The text he was writing was quickly swiped off screen. I asked him why he was acting like he had something to hide. He told a few lies (that he was emailing) but I knew from the screen it was not email. I asked for his phone and he got very agitated.

To cut to the chase, he was texting EAP. He deleted the texts before I asked for his phone. Apparently, EAP contacted him today to tell him she has cancer.

Obviously I'm not that much of a heartless b1tch to not feel sorry for anyone who has cancer. But I am soooo angry that H couldn't tell me she had reached out. And I said if he had nothing to hide there was no reason to delete the texts. He said she asked him not to tell anyone. I said "and that includes me? you're loyal to her but not to me?".

Of course I also don't believe that these texts only started today but I cant prove otherwise. I kindly asked him to be transparent and show me his next reply and everything that comes in from her.

But now he is all mopey - doesn't know what to do, it's someone he cares about (bleugh) AND she has cancer. And she was there for him when he was unhappy. I said "You had an AFFAIR", but apparently that doesn't take away the fact that he cares (present tense) about her.

I am so angry that he didn't protect himself from her reaching out ((((May!!!!))) . We had this discussion weeks ago - I asked him how he was going to protect himself from her reaching out to him for support (e.g. hey I miss our chats, or hey my H and I are splitting up). But I didn't expect her to throw this one at him.

What do I do? If he had been transparent I would not be so angry, but it's the fact he's hidden it from me, then removed all the evidence, then lied about who he was chatting to. If it was THAT innocuous then there was nothing to hide, right?

What should I do peeps? I want to kick him out, and I probably would if it was anything other than she's dropped the C bomb on him and he says he doesn't know what to do.

[LH19]

PM99,

I am sorry this has happen to you but unfortunately this is the life you will lead for a really long time. When trust is broken it is hard to get back. I am wondering why her number isn't blocked?

He has to know what is acceptable and what isn't and that you will walk if he doesn't comply. There are no shortcuts in DB and this is actually very predictable. Human value things they need to work to obtain.

Until you know your own value you can't expect someone else to. I'm sorry.

[may22]

(((Pommy)))

Dude. These Hs. They need a support group like this of their own, honestly. (Actually, it *is* too bad there isn't something like this out there for them.)

First, I just want to empathize with you so, so much. I know how you feel. I've been there. It is awful.

Second, what does your gut tell you about whether he's telling the whole truth, here? About her just reaching out today? Maybe he just learned about the cancer today but that doesn't necessarily mean that this is the first text. Am I right in remembering that he was in contact with her while you were separated? Do you know how they ended things in that context? I'm just wondering if she was aware that he was choosing to work on his M and that he didn't want to have any level of interaction with her, or was it looser. That was the case in the spring for me-- I was under the impression there was zero contact, he was still in some minimal level of contact, then she shared the big news that flipped him upside down. Of course are situations are different and I think my H was (is) in way deeper with his AP than yours is with his. But it could be that he has been in some minimal level of contact with her and that could also explain his inability to really reconnect with you.

Third, if he is trying to work on the M, he is simply not the right person to support her through this process. He can't be. She needs people around her who can be fully present and he cannot, if he wants to also save his M. He needs to tell her that and disconnect. By the way, were you here when Kristin G was posting? Her wife's AP also had a cancer diagnosis in the middle of their sitch, if you want to find her old threads and read through. It was more like the fall 2019-- i think she started posting right around the same time I did last fall.

Fourth, everyone here is going to tell you to kick him out, full stop. He's lying about this, he's probably lying about more, how can you trust him in the future, etc. Boot him to the curb. (I have to say, we sure are quick to call for kicking WHs out for a divorce busting board.) But, is there a reason to do that today? I'd be more interested in understanding why he hid it from you. My guess is that the immediate lie (I'm doing email) is almost automatic-- he'd been lying to you in the same situation for so long that it just pops out. Would he have approached you and told you it happened after the fact? Is he only mopey because he feels sad that she has cancer? Or did this dredge up all the feelings and their fantasy runaway future together where he could have tenderly mopped her brow and supported her through this? (I don't say that to hurt you but I can tell you one thousand percent that is where my H's head would be.)

If you choose not to kick him out right away, maybe in your next MC session you can explore with a professional why he lied and give him the chance in a neutral setting to say if there is more going on. Best case scenario, they haven't been in contact, she did just reach out, he's understandably thrown for a loop when you walk in-- who wouldn't be-- but instead of telling you what was going on, he spit out a lie because he was scared you would be angry and kick him out if you found out he was texting her. And, this setback is the motivation he needs to truly figure out how to go NC and protect himself from future contact with her. Worst case scenario, well you've read my thread

I guess I would just agree with LH about the long road part. You need to decide what you can and can't live with, where your boundaries are and how you can respond when they're breached. if this is the best case scenario, kicking him out might be a little premature. As WF just posted on my thread, recovery is never going to be a straight line and there will be setbacks. But, if you think this is a continued behavior and you simply won't be able to trust him going forward, then you may be ready to toss in the towel. Luckily, it is your call. You are in charge here. I would say no matter what you decide, this is your time to withdraw from him a little, focus on yourself. If any part of his mopiness is due to some wayward feelings, you distancing a bit is going to be a lot more effective than yelling at him.

(((Pommy)))

[LH19]

Fourth, everyone here is going to tell you to kick him out, full stop. He's lying about this, he's probably lying about more, how can you trust him in the future, etc. Boot him to the curb. (I have to say, we sure are quick to call for kicking WHs out for a divorce busting board.)

May I am really sorry you think that is how everyone on the board views these situations. We are all people who have lived it, researched it and seen 100s and not 1,000s of these play out and can spot liars, cheaters and manipulators a mile away because we are not in deep anymore. Now you can take your husband back right now with open arms if you so choose but I guarantee there will be consequences for that later on. Or you can do what we suggest and ask him to move out (not kick him to the curb) and prove to you that he see you as someone of value.

Right now you do not see yourself as valuable because if you did there is absolutely zero chance you would put up with this nonsense. It's a process. I know because I was in your shoes at one point. I am on this board because I would like to save as many people from suffering as possible.

PM99 sorry for the hijack and May is right you do not have to make a decision today. Time and space are your friend right now.

[Pommy99]

May, after we separated their communication increased. We were all in lockdown, she was at home with her H but they would speak every day (she would go out for walk to call him). H said that they’ started to get close and were acting more like a couple. He said he started to develop feelings (pretty sure they existed long before that tbh) and it didnt feel right. He said he didn’t want to be in a position where we could all turn around and say that he was having an affair all along. He said his loyalty to me was greater than his loyalty to her, he told her he didn’t feel he’d really given his marriage a chance and they agreed to stop contacting each other.

I don’t know how today has made him feel in terms of his feelings for her, other than he’s sad it’s happening to someone he cares about. He gave me the spiel about not stopping caring just because he’s not in contact.

I guess I’ve lectured him today - about how he was asked to protect himself and his M from this but left that door open, that it’s not his job to support her, that in choosing the M he was choosing a certain path and there was no role for her, that he should have been working towards letting go, which is why leaving the door open created a massive risk. I said I know you care and I hope she has friends and family to support her, but it’s not his job to be there for her. How many days/weeks/months was he going to continue to support her without telling me? He said he hadn’t processed that right now. I feel like he wants to be there for her because of his comments that she was there for him. He’s apologised for lying but said in the moment he was scared of telling me. I said that’s nonsense, you made a conscious decision to hide your screen and then delete the texts and then lie about emailing someone else for a good 5 minutes afterwards, in the hope that I wouldn’t keep pushing it. I mentioned the times he’s done this before - he whinged that he’s never going to be able to get away from the past misdemeanours if I keep bringing them up. I said not if you keep resetting the counter to zero. That I had hoped to be 100 steps down the road from this by now but he’s just reset the clock .

Right now he can’t separate out the fact that he cares for her from the fact he chose to work on the M.

Yes we are struggling to reconnect - we’ve not done our MC homework that was set nearly two weeks ago so I’m struggling to see his motivation, but I’m not pushing it, as I’m seeing small amounts of progress in other areas. Bottom line is he still doesn’t see me as a lover and is not initiating the exercises we have been tasked with doing. To be fair, he had an op last week so it’s been a hard week/weekend.

He’s been really mopey all afternoon now, trying to appease me with coffee etc but I think he is reeling from the news. Like you say, what impact has it had on him? I think he is back to being torn between us again, unfortunately.

[Pommy99]

and LH, her number isn’t blocked because he chose not to, even though I had suggested it might be necessary to protect himself and me/the M from this very kind of situation.

[LH19]

Texting OW behind your back
Refusing to delete her number
Not doing HW

What are actions telling you?

[Valeska19]

May, after we separated their communication increased. We were all in lockdown, she was at home with her H but they would speak every day (she would go out for walk to call him). H said that they’ started to get close and were acting more like a couple. He said he started to develop feelings (pretty sure they existed long before that tbh) and it didnt feel right. He said he didn’t want to be in a position where we could all turn around and say that he was having an affair all along. He said his loyalty to me was greater than his loyalty to her, he told her he didn’t feel he’d really given his marriage a chance and they agreed to stop contacting each other.

Was the Separation in house or not in house?

I don’t know how today has made him feel in terms of his feelings for her, other than he’s sad it’s happening to someone he cares about. He gave me the spiel about not stopping caring just because he’s not in contact.

You cannot stop his feelings but he hasn't done anything to prevent the harm., He is leaving the door open by not blocking her.

I guess I’ve lectured him today - about how he was asked to protect himself and his M from this but left that door open, that it’s not his job to support her, that in choosing the M he was choosing a certain path and there was no role for her, that he should have been working towards letting go, which is why leaving the door open created a massive risk. I said I know you care and I hope she has friends and family to support her, but it’s not his job to be there for her.

Hmm. Your anger is valid but the truth is when you use "You" a bunch - the other person can't hear you but the defenses are up. He's also not a child. And you can't control him. All you can do is tell him how your feel and then set a boundary around it that works for YOU.

I feel like he wants to be there for her because of his comments that she was there for him.

Mindreading - Don't go there.

He’s apologised for lying but said in the moment he was scared of telling me. I said that’s nonsense, you made a conscious decision to hide your screen and then delete the texts and then lie about emailing someone else for a good 5 minutes afterwards, in the hope that I wouldn’t keep pushing it. I mentioned the times he’s done this before - he whinged that he’s never going to be able to get away from the past misdemeanours if I keep bringing them up. I said not if you keep resetting the counter to zero. That I had hoped to be 100 steps down the road from this by now but he’s just reset the clock .

What tools is your MC giving you to handle setbacks?

Right now he can’t separate out the fact that he cares for her from the fact he chose to work on the M

He doesn't have to separate feelings... but feelings aren't actions. He can certainly DO something.

Yes we are struggling to reconnect - we’ve not done our MC homework that was set nearly two weeks ago so I’m struggling to see his motivation, but I’m not pushing it, as I’m seeing small amounts of progress in other areas. Bottom line is he still doesn’t see me as a lover and is not initiating the exercises we have been tasked with doing. To be fair, he had an op last week so it’s been a hard week/weekend.

He’s been really mopey all afternoon now, trying to appease me with coffee etc but I think he is reeling from the news. Like you say, what impact has it had on him? I think he is back to being torn between us again, unfortunately.

Pommy - Based on your posts - it doesn't seem your like H is ready. He "wants" to do the work... but isn't "doing" the actual work. It also feels like you are accepting the breadcrumbs he is giving you as progress yet at the same time criticizing him when he falls short. Your pendulum swings back and forth. How do you calm that?

The hard truth is Pommy's emotional well being and emotional safety is fully POMMY's responsibility. You keep expecting your H to provide this for you but he can't do that right now (and its truly not his job to). But you can. You have so much power here and yet you give it to him. Why? What are you so afraid of when you choose yourself?

Ask yourself - What can Pommy do to keep Pommy emotional safe? What Can Pommy do to Self Care? Protect her Well Being?Live a life of Honesty and Integrity?

All the answers is within yourself. What will it take for you to look inwards instead of expecting your H to do it for you?

[Pommy99]

Hi Valeska, he moved out , but a week after, we went into full lockdown . He wasn’t able to travel to her city for work, which he had been doing every week.

I honestly don’t know why he wanted to come back, we had about 7 weeks honeymoon period, then something happened and he went all distant. I am now thinking perhaps this is when they got back in contact.

The thing with H is he denies everything unless presented with evidence. So today he was caught red handed and now surprise, surprise they have only been in contact since this morning, I don’t believe him . Why should I?

[Ginger1]

They call that trickle truth