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Originally Posted by may22
Figure out what to tell the children and when, and if we want/need to let them know he's living in the basement as a first step until he has his place. (Thoughts on this one? I feel like it would be better for it to be more of a done deal when we tell them and he actually goes, so that they don't think they can/should be able to change his mind? I worry about this.


We knew for a month that H was going to move out permanently before we told the children. I kept going back and forth about whether to tell them earlier, but decided it would be easiest on them if we told them the night before he moved out. My reasoning for this was that they would live in anxiety and anticipation as long as they knew. And we would get the 'how many days until?'. There are so many ways to do this, but for our family, I am happy we waited until it was really happening.

Either way, I think getting H out of your house ASAP is a good move. I am all about authenticity and believe that there is nothing wrong with showing emotions in front of the kids. We have always been of the mindset that light fighting in front of the kids is authentic and OK, as long as they saw us repair and forgive each other, so they learn the whole cycle. But when that making-up opportunity is no longer possible, then it can become toxic for all involved.

H moved out of our room with no fanfare. The kids didn't even ask about it. So maybe your children won't even address his move to the basement anyway.

(((May)))

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(((may))) Well, I wanted to stop by and catch up after the weekend, and I'm caught up. I'm so, so sorry that you're in the middle of all this right now. Mostly, I'm sorry that your H has turned out to be the kind of guy who apparently wants to check off the box on the first-date questions so he can tell himself he tried that and it also didn't work. It sounds so much like he is having trouble facing the beginning of the fallout of his decisions. But it also seems very, very clear that you will not be drawn in to his drama. I know you may not feel it moment to moment, but you are strong, may, so strong. It is making me feel stronger over here just to read how you are handling things with H, not backing down, and instead stepping into the full knowledge that he is weak and not worthy of you. You will get through this, and the kids will get through this, and you are going to be able to walk through this sh*t time and emerge like the mother of dragons, just like that image you had for me. You should have no regrets--that is not the case for H, he obviously already senses that, and he will have to live with that and work through it. I don't think it's going to be sunshine and rainbows for him and AP (or anyone else) by any means.

I too struggle with taking things moment by moment, day by day. You know you have some tasks in front of you, that list of things to figure out, but also, what can you do in this next fifteen minutes for yourself? Do you need to eat something, anything? Get a glass of water? A milkshake?


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Gigi-- thank you. I've been following your thread too... I don't feel strong right now. I feel like an insane person. It is literally all I can do today to resist acting like a nut again. So far, so good though for today.

Sage-- how did you guys act to each other during that month? Did you eat meals as a family, etc? This is so hard in this COVID lockdown world... in normal times I'd just get out of the house to hang with friends or SOMETHING. Be at an actual office during the day rather than trying to avoid H in the kitchen. I really, really don't want to pretend to be a happy family this time around like we did in January and again, less so, in July.

Thinking on this-- that is a big difference for me. When people were saying I should go cold hard NC as much as possible in the home last time around, I was like... how do you even DO that? It was confusing for me and not something I could really do. It is so ingrained in me to be nice. Now, I feel it in my bones that I simply don't want to engage with him or fake it anymore, even for the kids' sake. So, I guess that is progress, even as I WANT to smash all his records and throw all his clothes on the front lawn.

Originally Posted by Sage4
H moved out of our room with no fanfare. The kids didn't even ask about it. So maybe your children won't even address his move to the basement anyway.

D8 has been quiet all morning. At lunch she asked me where Daddy slept. I tried to avoid answering but she was persistent (Where did Daddy sleep? Did Daddy sleep next to you last night, Mommy?). He came up at 5 am and replaced his pillow, put the futon back, etc and was down there on a call before she even woke up, so it wasn't like she had seen anything... I told her he slept in the basement. She asked why and I said he had an early call. (Also true. But.) I think we need to tell them sooner rather than later. This part SVCKS.

His apartment viewings aren't till tomorrow, I don't know why he told me last night he had two today. Hoping we can talk finances tonight and figure out what the next steps are, because I want to be sure he is paying for his own GD apartment. Sage, I know this was an issue with you too, your H finding a ridiculously expensive place. I think this may be the case here too. And I just don't want to worry about it.

Cardinal-- hugs to you, too. I am working as best I can on taking this one step at a time, not thinking about AP and him or AP and my kids or whatever. It feels good to have you guys say it won't be sunshine and rainbows, but my gut says even if it isn't he'll pretend it is and make it so, because that is how he deals with everything. That this is such a big and gut-wrenching decision with huge fallout on the children, me, friends, family, everything... I truly think this is it. He won't change his mind. I'm done, he's done, this is it. (This is really, really sad to me right now.)

He'll make sure his R with AP is sparkly unicorns at least to the world even if he's desperately unhappy inside. He doesn't think anyone will judge him for the A. He thinks people will think, well, you can't control when you meet someone you really love. Two and a half-- now almost three- years is a long time, long enough to know this is real. (Gross that he has the b@lls to say that to his WIFE. Duck. wink )

I ate a little, drinking tons of water. Every time this happens I can't eat and am desperately thirsty. Does that happen to anyone else? My good friend who I've told said the same thing happened to her-- she was constantly and incredibly thirsty.


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Originally Posted by may22
Sage-- how did you guys act to each other during that month? Did you eat meals as a family, etc? This is so hard in this COVID lockdown world... in normal times I'd just get out of the house to hang with friends or SOMETHING. Be at an actual office during the day rather than trying to avoid H in the kitchen. I really, really don't want to pretend to be a happy family this time around like we did in January and again, less so, in July.


It was really hard. There was a lot of focus on the kids, who were a buffer between us at the time. Focussing on the kids meant that we were never really 'faking' it as our love for them is authentic. And unlike in your sitch, the undeniable marital struggles were unrelenting and had been going on for a long time with a nesting S in the middle of all of it, so they were kind of used to things not being great. Sadly.

Can you do as much one-on-one things with the kids as possible during the transition to give each other space? Even if you are stuck at home, one parent can cook while the other plays board games with the kids, one parent is in charge of homeschooling while the other works, etc. You will find your natural distance in a few days and clarity surrounding the actual move-out date will allow you some peace, I promise.

Originally Posted by may22
Thinking on this-- that is a big difference for me. When people were saying I should go cold hard NC as much as possible in the home last time around, I was like... how do you even DO that? It was confusing for me and not something I could really do. It is so ingrained in me to be nice. Now, I feel it in my bones that I simply don't want to engage with him or fake it anymore, even for the kids' sake.


I think your anger has finally arrived and will keep that nice girl at bay. You don't have anything to prove any more, you have been forced to think of only yourself and your girls. Focus on them, focus on your next steps. You will be surprised how much of your time those two focal points will consume in a day.

You haven't been at this stage before, so the rules are completely different and you will naturally react completely differently than you did over the past 10 months.

Originally Posted by may22
D8 has been quiet all morning. At lunch she asked me where Daddy slept. I tried to avoid answering but she was persistent (Where did Daddy sleep? Did Daddy sleep next to you last night, Mommy?). He came up at 5 am and replaced his pillow, put the futon back, etc and was down there on a call before she even woke up, so it wasn't like she had seen anything... I told her he slept in the basement. She asked why and I said he had an early call. (Also true. But.) I think we need to tell them sooner rather than later. This part SVCKS.


Oh, it does svck. SO MUCH.

It's an answer to say you don't have an answer right now.

Or, if the kids push you for details, you can say something along the lines of 'you know how you saw us crying the other day? (<-- name the elephant in the room so the kids don't have to). You know how you sometimes have really big feelings and those feelings can be overwhelming? Well, sometimes adults have those big feelings too, like Mommy and Daddy did the other day. Daddy is sleeping downstairs so we can deal with our big feelings.' If the 'big feelings' line is too infantile for them, sub out for whatever your family's key word is for deep emotions.

Originally Posted by may22
His apartment viewings aren't till tomorrow, I don't know why he told me last night he had two today. Hoping we can talk finances tonight and figure out what the next steps are, because I want to be sure he is paying for his own GD apartment. Sage, I know this was an issue with you too, your H finding a ridiculously expensive place. I think this may be the case here too. And I just don't want to worry about it.


I hope the finance conversation goes well. I know that any input I would have had on his choice of living spaces would have fed the party line of 'controlling, manipulative Sage'. So I vented here and made sure my financial side of things were secure immediately.

Originally Posted by may22
It feels good to have you guys say it won't be sunshine and rainbows, but my gut says even if it isn't he'll pretend it is and make it so, because that is how he deals with everything. That this is such a big and gut-wrenching decision with huge fallout on the children, me, friends, family, everything... I truly think this is it. He won't change his mind. I'm done, he's done, this is it. (This is really, really sad to me right now.)


I am going to keep cautioning you from predicting the future, May. I thought the same thing at first, but the reality of how different life is post-S is something neither of you have been through before. He may make out like sunshine and unicorns, but he also may fall on his face and deeply regret this. Neither will change the outcome because you will be long gone by then.

Originally Posted by may22
He'll make sure his R with AP is sparkly unicorns at least to the world even if he's desperately unhappy inside. He doesn't think anyone will judge him for the A. He thinks people will think, well, you can't control when you meet someone you really love. Two and a half-- now almost three- years is a long time, long enough to know this is real.


EXCEPT that most sane, humans will look at the situation and think to themselves, what a f*ckwit. No one is going to pat him on the back and celebrate his 'brave decision' to leave his wife and kids. And years down the road when everyone reaches the point of acceptance, you will be married to that philanthropist I mentioned earlier wink

Drink coconut water if you can't get anything else down. At least then you will have the electrolytes you need! xx

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May!


Im like you thinking about the future and trying to predict it! Dont, i have to remind myself that i have no idea what will happen nor does he! My H like to think he does and plays out these scenarios that we will be Best friends one day and will go on holidays together to maldives!

For them its real, i guess its just accepting that, i dont want to dwell on the past but wonder if he was booted out straight away and had the chance to live his ea/pa He would be further along.

Maybe this will trigger something, this will certainly make him face reality, this is what he has done and these are the consequences of his actions and him messing with you and the girls.

Stay strong, because we are!

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(((may)))

I'm happy for you may. Your emotions are not getting pulled by him in all directions this time around. It's his loss. whether he can see that or not, it does not even matter. You know it. Yeah, definitely get the financial stuff written up asap if you can. use his guilt to your advantage.

kids - my youngest is 8 and he's always been part of the conversation when I talk to the older two. I think I've probably said the word "divorce" at least 10 times in the last year when I'm explaining our situation, yet I think my S8 still has little clue what it really means. The best thing you can do is to reassure them that whatever problems you and daddy are going through - it's between you two, you guys still love them the same. Has your D10 been asking anything?


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may ~ I also lose my appetite under heavy stress. Even though I know I'm hungry and need energy, it is hard to eat. Exercise helps me.

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((((may))))


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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GD it. He is waffling.

Of course he is. Par for the course. Yesterday all day he was in the basement. he came up and hung around as I started making dinner, trying to "help" as I ignored him (would open the garbage can, fridge, etc as he saw I was approaching and needed those things). I made no eye contact.

Went outside to drink a glass of wine and he followed me. Temp checked like crazy... he'd gone to look at a house for sale a few blocks away, said it was really nice, small but nice. I said, you can afford it with my grandmother's money. (I engaged because talking about finances and where he will live is on my list of things I am interested in discussing with him.) He said, we could buy it and then you take this house and I'll take that one. I said, fine (decided not to comment on the "we"). He said, or, if we stay together, we can rent it out, it can be another investment property. (POMMY!!) I said, I don't want to talk about that. He dropped it. Then tried, if we stay together, you can use your grandmother's money to buy a Tesla and do all the things around the house you want to do. I said, you can buy yourself a Tesla and I don't want to talk about that. He dropped it.

He said, I've really been thinking about what we could be like together in M2.0 (the thing I'd been asking for-- us setting a goal of what M2.0 looked like and working towards it). I said, BS. You've told me over and over you can't even imagine it. And, I don't want to talk about that. He dropped it.

He kept saying little things to draw me in. I refused to engage and finally, I said, please stop. I don't want to chat with you like we're friends. You always do this and it isn't okay. He acknowledged and finally shut it. I started reading my book about how to tell children about a D, which made me cry, so I asked him to please feed the children the dinner that was in the oven and that I was tired and going to bed early, and left the room. We didn't have our finance/tell the kids talk, he fed and put the kids to bed and went straight down to the basement. I actually got some sleep last night.

I am doing much better, this time, in terms of setting my boundaries and not letting him cross them. I don't want to talk to him, I don't want to pretend we are a happy family. I want him to GTFO. BUT. Even though I know I did well in my behaviors, inside I felt a little crumbling. F!&K, you guys. F!&K.

This morning, he came upstairs and hung around with D10 and me who were cuddling and talking. Even though the two of us didn't say anything directly to each other, I eventually felt like it was pretending and left the room. He came to me and asked what I needed today. I said nothing... well, I want to talk about finances. He said, okay. Then he said, I know this probably isn't helpful first thing in the morning, but I am not certain at all of my decision. I said, I can't imagine you would be, and walked away.

Later, I went to the basement to get waffles out of the freezer for the kids' breakfast. He said, I am really unsure. I haven't actually made my decision yet. I said, you're a selfish and weak person with no moral center. He said, we haven't really talked this time around. What would it be like if I stayed? I don't want to be married to someone who hates me and thinks I'm selfish and weak and empty inside. I said, then don't be. And, don't you think that of yourself? Don't you see how the choices you have made and continue to make are incredibly selfish? He said, I see that. I don't see where I'm weak. I said, if you weren't weak this never would have happened. If you weren't weak, you wouldn't have told me six weeks ago that your intention was to never speak to her again and then a week after we get back from the trip you're back in the same place. You'd be a person who had integrity and honored his commitments, the big ones and the little ones. He pushed me again, I mean, if I stayed, would you be able to forgive me? Would you just keep thinking I was a selfish and weak person? I said, I'll think that as long as that is who you are, whether you stay or go. And I think I've said over and over how I feel. I'm done talking about that with you. And I walked away.

I am feeling the anger subside, I think because of the temp checking. I know it would be so easy to get drawn back in but I am not going to let that happen. I'm re-reading my June/July threads and all the great advice on boundaries there (Alison, if you're around, your posts from then are golden and I can finally SEE what they mean and how to live them).

I think he needs to go. He will never be the kind of person I want to be with without drastic change and hard work and I don't know if he has the capacity for that. Focus on me, focus on the children, what I can control and not on what I can't. Detach. I want to get beyond needing the anger to keep me fueled and just not care anymore.

Sage--thanks for the continued reminders to stop predicting the future. It is hard for me to sit in the moment but I know that is what I need to do. You might need to keep reminding me smile Thanks also for the good advice on how to behave in the house, what to say to the kids, etc. At least last night he took his toothbrush downstairs and he's also left his pillow down there (hidden though-- when I went down the futon was all put away) so that is a positive step. I think if they ask me again, I'll say that is where Daddy wants to sleep right now.

Gigi, these WAHs are so weird. My H also thought we would travel together. Originally he told me his ideal situation was that he and AP live next door and H would come over every night to have dinner with me and the girls as a family, then presumably once they went to bed he'd go back to his place to F his AP.

Wooba, D10 asked me the other day when I'd been crying and she knew H and I had fought if we were going to get a D. I said, oh baby, I don't want to. Her eyes just welled up and spilled over and she wiped the tears away with her shirt and nodded. I hugged her for a long time and told her I loved her. Our neighbor's recent D really affected both my girls badly and D8 cries every Wednesday because her friend is going to her mom's house. D10 has more friends whose parents are Ded, one good friend whose parents are going through a D this year and then another family with kids in both my girls' class are going through a D right now too. So I don't know how much of their questioning has to do with what they're sensing in the household vs being really primed and having a lot of fear about it generally from what is happening with their friends.

This helps me get angry again, BTW. I'll sit in this.

U-- exercise... so far I haven't been able to motivate myself to do anything physical but will try.

Thanks, everyone. The continued encouragement really, really helps. I need it.


Me (46) H (42)
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May i dont know you, but you are amazing!

We all have our faults, we have all contributed to issues in your M, but i absolutely am amazed at how you are dealing with this. Of course he is second guessing himself Now because you are ready to drop the rope! That is it you are where all of us eventually need to get to.

I do think that it woukdnt be a bad thing if he moves out, but i can see he is clinging onto you, because reality is bleak.

P.s my H wanted to continue living together and coparenting whilst Waking up with me in the morning cuddling and then going to see his AP.....bonkers.....thats didn't go to plan because i booted him out 3 months ago.

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