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Why are you unable to sleep, in your opinion?

Why? Stress. Rejection. Just the usual. It's better now although in the past I was able to sleep 6-8 hours at the drop of a hat, now I can barely get through 4 without a sleeping pill.

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Originally Posted by Cadet
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

Thanks for this advice. But she has been gone for nearly a year (I just found the DB site a couple weeks ago). So I''m not worried about her looking at my search history; she's been out of the house all this time. She might already be a member here at DB, but ... I guess I can't worry about that!

But since I consider the possibility of salvaging my marriage to be hopeless, I guess I need to know which book will be most valuable. To quote Michele, I will make some woman a great second husband, and I'd like to know which book will be most helpful in teaching me the lessons I need to learn.

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Originally Posted by tom_h


There had not a peep prior. We had not gone to marriage counseling. She had not once said our marriage was in trouble. There had been tense times, to be sure, and I had undergone some very unique stresses for a few years from my biological family. But there was no significant issue, at least on the surface. I don't drink to excess, don't take drugs, don't gamble, have no addictive behaviors, and didn't womanize. I loved my wife openly and clearly, had long made it a habit of telling the children that "Mom is the love of my life."

She has hardly spoken to me since the filing 11 months ago last September. We have seen each other in person a mere three times. She has refused to talk, which hurts even more, because the "why" still makes me weep. I have a feeling that she is not talking because she doesn't want to take a chance that her will to divorce will weaken. For years she said we didn't communicate very well, yet after suffering in silence for years, she is committing that very same offense -- not talking.



I'm sorry you are in this situation.

The two statements I put in bold seem to contradict each other. Not communicating well is a significant issue. Have you considered that your wife might not be talking because she has given up trying to communicate with you?

Do you have any specifics of what your wife felt was not working in the communication between the two of you? You mentioned wanting to improve yourself for your next relationship. Given what you've shared here, I would start with exploring what was wrong with the communication in your marriage--thinking from your wife's perspective as much as you can--and learning better communication habits.

Also, have you read up on the Five Love Languages? What is your love language? What is your wife's?


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Tom, welcome to the forum. There is no don't about it, these things are stressful and extremely difficult. You are still struggling after a nearly a year. Because it is so difficult. I talk to LBS all the time, and while limbo (the state between being divorce bombed and the situation finally being resolved) with an IHS is difficult, I think those that are left immediately and have a very obstinate spouse who refuses to even talk is worse. So I know what you've been through has been awful.

You're going to be alright, and you'll even be better than ever! You mention your Christian faith, now is the time to lean on it. You seem knowledgeable of the Bible. So you probably know Romans 8:28. This will all work out for the best. Believe it!


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Originally Posted by Steve85
Tom, welcome to the forum. There is no don't about it, these things are stressful and extremely difficult. You are still struggling after a nearly a year. Because it is so difficult. I talk to LBS all the time, and while limbo (the state between being divorce bombed and the situation finally being resolved) with an IHS is difficult, I think those that are left immediately and have a very obstinate spouse who refuses to even talk is worse. So I know what you've been through has been awful.

You're going to be alright, and you'll even be better than ever! You mention your Christian faith, now is the time to lean on it. You seem knowledgeable of the Bible. So you probably know Romans 8:28. This will all work out for the best. Believe it!

Thank you for the pep talk and words of advice. I'm aware of the passage in Romans but I've been using Philippians 4:13 for the past year.

And yes, I appreciate your insight. The hardest thing was that she refused to talk. After all those years!

For one, I think she was afraid I would talk over her, which was a legitimate concern of hers -- before the divorce filing. Yes, I was the dominant male and no doubt that is one thing that she wanted and loved at first but rebelled against after so many years. The second reason she wouldn't talk -- I'm guessing here -- is that she knows she doesn't have a good answer to why she didn't try to work things out years ago; why she didn't do the decent and proper thing and get us into counseling; why she wasn't honest and open and tell me at least once that "our marriage isn't working out."

All I thought about those first 2 months -- when I wasn't thinking that it can't be true -- was talking with her. So yes the pain was excruciating.

So I do have a question -- one bit of advice I received, from a fellow who had been married a couple times, is that the divorced couple should still go into couples therapy, even after the divorce is final, because that is the only way you learn what you yourself did wrong from the other gender's perspective. Sure, we might be in therapy ourselves, but only the biased perspective is discussed. It takes the other side's view, even if it's hard to listen, to understand how we impact others. So ... even though my ex won't talk now, should I try and convince her to go into therapy once the divorce is final?

Last edited by tom_h; 09/10/20 04:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rose888
Originally Posted by tom_h


There had not a peep prior. We had not gone to marriage counseling. She had not once said our marriage was in trouble. There had been tense times, to be sure, and I had undergone some very unique stresses for a few years from my biological family. But there was no significant issue, at least on the surface. I don't drink to excess, don't take drugs, don't gamble, have no addictive behaviors, and didn't womanize. I loved my wife openly and clearly, had long made it a habit of telling the children that "Mom is the love of my life."

She has hardly spoken to me since the filing 11 months ago last September. We have seen each other in person a mere three times. She has refused to talk, which hurts even more, because the "why" still makes me weep. I have a feeling that she is not talking because she doesn't want to take a chance that her will to divorce will weaken. For years she said we didn't communicate very well, yet after suffering in silence for years, she is committing that very same offense -- not talking.



I'm sorry you are in this situation.

The two statements I put in bold seem to contradict each other. Not communicating well is a significant issue. Have you considered that your wife might not be talking because she has given up trying to communicate with you?

Do you have any specifics of what your wife felt was not working in the communication between the two of you? You mentioned wanting to improve yourself for your next relationship. Given what you've shared here, I would start with exploring what was wrong with the communication in your marriage--thinking from your wife's perspective as much as you can--and learning better communication habits.

Also, have you read up on the Five Love Languages? What is your love language? What is your wife's?


Well, this could be a long answer, but let's address only one thing now, the matter of love languages. I have no doubt that she will claim that I was either deliberately, or unwittingly, dismissive of her love languages. But that cuts both ways. She would be so mired in her pain that she would not realize that she was clueless about mine as well.

Yes, our marriage was muddling along but when we took our vows 30 years ago we both took those vows seriously, e.g., "for better and for worse" and "for richer and for poorer" and especially, "til death do you part." So I never, ever thought she would walk out. I would have never done it myself, either.

Yet ... had she told me a year prior, or 5 years prior, that our marriage was in trouble I would have done anything to keep it. Truly anything. As Michele said in one of her columns, when the beloved wife walks out, or is a few minutes from doing such, the husband is truly at the lowest ebb in his life and CAN make the changes that his wife thinks are impossible.

I didn't tell you what the love languages are yet ... I thought you might want to comment on the above first.

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Originally Posted by tom_h
And yes, I appreciate your insight. The hardest thing was that she refused to talk. After all those years!

So you make this statement but then you kind of answer it below.
Originally Posted by tom_h
For one, I think she was afraid I would talk over her, which was a legitimate concern of hers -- before the divorce filing.

This is more then likely why she didn't want to discuss it with you.
Originally Posted by tom_h
Yes, I was the dominant male and no doubt that is one thing that she wanted and loved at first but rebelled against after so many years.

What is your definition of a dominant male? Why do you think she rebelled after so many years?
Originally Posted by tom_h
The second reason she wouldn't talk -- I'm guessing here -- is that she knows she doesn't have a good answer to why she didn't try to work things out years ago; why she didn't do the decent and proper thing and get us into counseling; why she wasn't honest and open and tell me at least once that "our marriage isn't working out."

Why was it her job to get you in counseling? Odds are if she wasn't happy you weren't happy either. My guess is she gave you hints but you didn't hear her.
Originally Posted by tom_h
So ... even though my ex won't talk now, should I try and convince her to go into therapy once the divorce is final?

For what purpose? If you do some reading you will understand what you did wrong in the marriage.

Tommy for us to help you we need to understand more the dynamic of your marriage.

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Originally Posted by tom_h


Well, this could be a long answer, but let's address only one thing now, the matter of love languages. I have no doubt that she will claim that I was either deliberately, or unwittingly, dismissive of her love languages. But that cuts both ways. She would be so mired in her pain that she would not realize that she was clueless about mine as well.

Yes, our marriage was muddling along but when we took our vows 30 years ago we both took those vows seriously, e.g., "for better and for worse" and "for richer and for poorer" and especially, "til death do you part." So I never, ever thought she would walk out. I would have never done it myself, either.

Yet ... had she told me a year prior, or 5 years prior, that our marriage was in trouble I would have done anything to keep it. Truly anything. As Michele said in one of her columns, when the beloved wife walks out, or is a few minutes from doing such, the husband is truly at the lowest ebb in his life and CAN make the changes that his wife thinks are impossible.

I didn't tell you what the love languages are yet ... I thought you might want to comment on the above first.


It sounds like you are more interested in blaming your wife than addressing your contribution to the breakdown of your marriage and your weaknesses as a partner.


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 199
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Originally Posted by Rose888
Originally Posted by tom_h


Well, this could be a long answer, but let's address only one thing now, the matter of love languages. I have no doubt that she will claim that I was either deliberately, or unwittingly, dismissive of her love languages. But that cuts both ways. She would be so mired in her pain that she would not realize that she was clueless about mine as well.

Yes, our marriage was muddling along but when we took our vows 30 years ago we both took those vows seriously, e.g., "for better and for worse" and "for richer and for poorer" and especially, "til death do you part." So I never, ever thought she would walk out. I would have never done it myself, either.

Yet ... had she told me a year prior, or 5 years prior, that our marriage was in trouble I would have done anything to keep it. Truly anything. As Michele said in one of her columns, when the beloved wife walks out, or is a few minutes from doing such, the husband is truly at the lowest ebb in his life and CAN make the changes that his wife thinks are impossible.

I didn't tell you what the love languages are yet ... I thought you might want to comment on the above first.


It sounds like you are more interested in blaming your wife than addressing your contribution to the breakdown of your marriage and your weaknesses as a partner.

Whoa, you guys and gals are a rough crowd.

I got a sense that this forum is meant to help others, and that help can come in a couple of different flavors. There is the kind of "help" where others will listen and be a new friend to others in grief; then there is the kind of "help" where others try to analyze you and fix your problems.

I don't think I'm ready for the latter here. I'm in therapy now and my counselor and I have been working on fixing me for 11 months. I can relate some of that, in time. But for now, on this forum, I think I need the former. The friend who listens. I'm hoping to find other men, like me, whose wives walked out and left them adrift, and who can provide some insight into the why and what to do. Also, I'd hope to hear from some wives who walked out on their man, and can give me some perspective as well. I'll get to analyzing what I did wrong eventually, I have lots of personal insights.

Does that make sense?

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I was trying to give you the why and the what to do by asking questions.

The why is because she was unhappy likely built up tons of resentment over the years. I've read once it takes seven positive interactions with your W to offset one negative interaction.

The what to do. Give her time and space and go out and live an amazing life.

It's literally that simple yet everyone here including myself early on doesn't get it.

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