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Originally Posted by may22
I'm really struggling right now.


Of course you are. This is really, really, really hard stuff. And you have spent the past 10 + months working towards a different outcome. Hold your head high, though, sweet May, you really have done everything you can to save your M. You can be proud of that, even if it means diddly right now. It will matter later. Your integrity and strength and resolve is inspiring. ((M))


Originally Posted by may22
Thinking of my youngest who I think you're right, will definitely think this is her fault. And the oldest will have a lot of blame for one or both of us. Probably both.


I know that there is a lot of differing ideas on what and how much to tell the children, but I have found that my kids look to me for the truth and truth = trust = safety for them. In your case, it is so clear-cut that I would approach them with as much reality as possible. H needs to take the blame for this so that the kids don't muddle along thinking it is about them, or that they have any responsibility (either in what happened OR in the outcome, ie trying to make you two get back together again). It doesn't mean you vilify him. It doesn't mean he becomes unloveable to them. But he needs to own this for his daughters' sake. What is the least amount of words you could use to tell the truth about the situation? Can you somehow say the truth without making love seem fickle (ie avoid 'Dad fell out of love with Mom, Dad doesn't love Mom anymore')? When you get married, you promise not to have boyfriends or girlfriends. Dad decided he wanted a girlfriend so we can't be married anymore. FACTS. They might ask more questions, or that may satisfy them. Let them lead. (CL has some great verbiage on this one, FWIW)

We don't own a TV, I don't let my kids watch scary shows or join pop culture ideology; for all intents and purposes I protect my children's innocence and childhood as much as possible. But I have an abhorrence to gaslighting children. Can they speak 'adult'? NO. Can they speak 'human' (ie feelings, intuitions). YES. In a more pure language than we can, really. And it is my job to teach them to trust their intuition, listen to their feelings, follow their hearts. I'll be d@mned if this ghastly situation H is putting my family through will suddenly change my entire parenting approach.

Just my 2 cents, you do you, girl.

Originally Posted by may22
H asked what I thought of him renting an empty house a few doors down and I told him I thought it would be a really bad idea to be in walking distance, that we were both going to get a lot of "Dad would let me!" or "Mom would let me!" and being in walking distance was asking for trouble. He agreed.


Good move (pun intended).

Originally Posted by may22
It is just so sad to me. That my grandmother's money that really should be for the kids is all going straight to my stupid cheating lying H so that I can keep this house. The kids' college savings are f-ed. My retirement is cut in half. I'll have to scrimp and save to afford the mortgage on this place.


A loving 2x4 for you here: don't catastrophize your future before you live your way there. May I give you some possible alternative views?

- your grandmother had a cosmic hand in all of this and wants you to keep the house and raise your girls there (I mean, what are the odds in the sale amount allowing you to buy H out? That is pretty special intervention...)
- you live in a location where property values are only going to increase over time, and in the next 8-10 years, your home value will increase more than a 529 account could have
- you meet and marry a philanthropist who wants nothing more than to send your darling girls to Ivy League schools, he loves them so
- you start a killer consultancy and are a multi-millionaire by 50, college educations are a drop in the bucket
- H and you are both able to contribute to their educations by the time they are college-aged and it is really not an issue

Originally Posted by may22
The authenticity... I think you're right, that is really important to me. When H tried to emotionally manipulate me into kissing his A last night (the way you're talking, I don't know that I want to be married to you anymore... and when I said the only reason I could even contemplate sticking around after all of this would be for the children, when pushed, he said, not because you love me?) I told him, look, I could be nice right now to you and pretend we'll be friends and get what I want. But I am not going to do that. I am not going to lie to you or for you or at all, really. That is all I have right now-- my own values and sense of self. And I'll be g-d-ed if I'm going to compromise that for you.


Good for you for not buying into the manipulation. This has been the hardest lesson for me. So so SO hard.

Originally Posted by may22
I'm glad to know you're doing well. I've been thinking of you. xx


Haha! I'm not. I spent a weekend with my extended family and cried and cried at how loving and adoring my brothers are to their wives and how stupid I could be to pick an a** and have 4 kids with him. But I am learning to hold it together more and more everyday.

XXX

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Originally Posted by Sage4
Haha! I'm not. I spent a weekend with my extended family and cried and cried at how loving and adoring my brothers are to their wives and how stupid I could be to pick an a** and have 4 kids with him. But I am learning to hold it together more and more everyday.

OMG that is me today... I have been bawling afternoon. My children are completely freaked out. How/why did I pick this person to link my life to forever???

Thank you, Sage. I can't tell you how much this means to me. H and I talked (I yelled at him, he listened) for a couple of hours today. He is just ... not who I need. And yet. My kids are completely flipping their lids that I'm crying today. He started bawling when he saw D8 come and hug me when she thought I was sad. D10 asked if someone died. They hate that I won't say why I'm sad. I finally said, mom and dad got in an argument. D10 said, you aren't going to get divorced, are you? I said, oh baby, I don't want to. I really don't want to. And tears just welled up and she started crying too. It undid me.

I asked him if this was it, can I call my mom. (I feel like that will start the cascade of momentum). He asked me to wait until tomorrow. I don't know if I will/can. Maybe tonight we can talk about what to say to the children and tomorrow we can tell them, he can live in the basement until he finds a place. (I will push him to do that.)

I do have the sense that my grandmother's funds are a cosmic part of this. That she wouldn't want me to be beholden to anyone. Honestly, I do think that would be more important to her than anything else. (H also said when I told him how upset I was that her money was going to his lying cheating @ss that he'd put the max away for each girl immediately into their 529s out of it. To which I said, OK. Thank you. (Also he tried to convince me we could stay 50% owners and also that he needs a key regardless. I have such a long road ahead of me.)

And thank you for helping me to think of the positive possible outcomes. I know they are out there.

I spent a loooong time on CL last night. I think something along the lines of what you're saying would make sense to them. He will fight it. But I told him I'm done lying to anyone about what has happened.

(((SAGE))) I am so grateful to you and this community.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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{{{May}}} I'm so, so sorry about this. I know this isn't what you want - for you or your girls - and this whole situation s*cks. I know your heart is breaking into a thousand pieces and I so wish this wasn't happening for you.

FWIW, I think your H is a complete sh1te for doing what he's done. He pushed so hard for the holiday and , surprise, surprise, he's bailed straight afterwards. As if 4 weeks was enough time for feelings to come back! But I think you've done enough of the 'if only'. He is weak and you cant do anything more for him. Keep moving forward. You have your best life ahead, you deserve more than a cheating, lying, H.

I think his life is about to get a whole lot harder. As for AP, I sure as h3ll wouldn't want to be involved with a newly separated man who has chosen his wife over his AP a few times before now. Not that this is any concern of yours - you're bigger/better/stronger than all of that.

Keep strong sweetie...thinking of you loads xxxx


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
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Thanks, Pommy. He really is a sh1te for the trip. I don't regret it for myself or for the kids, but I think it is f-ed up of him to have done what he did, wait until the very last second to do what I'd asked, then turn around and say things like my anger during the trip proves that we can't be happy together. I'm OK with the emotional abuser label now. Took me awhile.

I am exhausted from no sleep and no food. I really just want this to be done and him out. I lost it yesterday, fully, like threw things (I have never done that before). He yelled at me "if this is how you want it then I'm calling a lawyer and will fight you for the kids" and D10 overheard. She flipped out, H started crying uncontrollably, D8 came by and started crying uncontrollably. I sat there and felt that my life was spinning completely out of control. D10 was bawling and hugging me and saying please don't divorce Daddy, this is just a fight, it'll be OK. I said, I don't want to divorce Daddy. I hugged her and D8, they both hugged H, he finally stopped crying, we went and sat together as a family on the couch to watch a movie, probably for the last time.

H refused to discuss anything last night after the kids went to bed, probably correctly as I was an irrational rage-filled mess. At least he slept in the basement.

I'm really feeling awful that we had that scene for the children to see. I want so badly to be detached and calm and icy and not spewing with rage. But I am so consumed with anger right now. I really need to figure out how to channel it productively instead of acting like an insane person. Also, our lockdown just got extended another two weeks.

I want to badly to not care that he's choosing AP, not me. That he's going to go ride off into the sunset with her. That she'll meet my kids and my in-laws and be thrown in my face at soccer games and weddings for the rest of my GD life. The thing is, I don't even want him anymore. He is a weak and selfish person. I've said all along that this is the bright line he's crossing, the thing I can never forgive, walking out and breaking up our family to go be with another woman. It is outside the realm of my understanding how anyone could do this.

I just feel like she's already contaminated two years of memories of my life and now she's going to dirty the rest of it. Pommy, I don't feel better/bigger/stronger at all. I feel small and mean and petty and like stabbing AP in the eyeballs with a fork.

Anyway. As I sit here and type in the middle of the night to restrain myself from going down to the basement and waking him up to yell at him some more, I feel the truth of DB-ing being for the LBS, not to save the M. My M is over. I'm no longer standing. I want as little to do with H as possible. What I want is to gather myself back up, focus on me, detach completely from caring about the mess of our lives H has made and is continuing to make, and figure out how to build my own path forward for me and the kids. I feel like a total BD-ing newbie and yet have been on this site now for a year.


Me (46) H (42)
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I'm sorry to hear that things took a nose dive, but I'm happy to hear you're the one calling the shots. You deserve that. Next I know people say it over and over and over but kids are resilient. And as a person who had a traumatic childhood if the worst pain these girls ever know is your divorce you gave your girls an amazing life. And you should be proud of that. Next 529's have a lot of pit falls. One of them in particular is the account is in the child's name so any money in there actually hurts more than helps because you can't use "well we have 2 children in this house" when working out how to pay for school and the financial aid package. So I'd really not stress too much over that. Lastly my dear I'm going to have to partially piggy back what Sage was saying and reiterate what I've already said to you.

You cannot let AP loom this large over your life, your family, your memories or your future. The fact is. She doesn't think about you, so you really shouldn't spend so much time thinking about her. And there is a huge assumption here that H will ride off into the sunset with AP because he loves her so much. Given their circumstances you are giving that imaginary scenario far more weight than it deserves. A huge pull for them is the distance and the complications. Those forces separating them feeds into the fire of their desire for each other. When you start pulling all the barriers out one by one, and they actually can ride off into the sunset that fantasy starts coming of the rails. The high starts to fade. The reality of a long term relationship with absolutely no barriers between them slaps them directly in their faces. And the two drama queens you're dealing with. Well. I don't know that this "love" they have for each other is really so much "love" as is it infatuation and lust when you start stripping away all the extraneous drama around it, you aren't really left with love.

Don't write a future that isn't here yet. Don't focus on a pain you may never have to feel. You worry about getting that pathetic man out of your house. And keeping you and your girls happy, healthy and whole as possible through this. Take a hot shower. Go for a walk. Have a small protein shake. You need something in you. Food is fuel. Do some work. Give those babies some cuddles. Have a glass of wine and take your steps forward. You can only control you. So you show H what a stone cold fox, and level headed boss b!tch he can't seem to drum up feelings for in 8 mins. You have this my dear.

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For what its worth....

Your H has chosen you OVER AP twice now. The latest is he has had NC with her correct? So you are imagining yet again that if he is tossed out you have freed him up to be with HER.

What does that say about her? How could SHE ever trust him not to do it AGAIN? And, what an assumption that in the last few weeks of NC that she is just sitting there waiting for him?

He is clearly lost in his own head at the moment. And, for clarity of course he can't simply stop all thought and feelings for this object that he cannot have - not being able to have something increases the desire to have it. Yet, I'm 100% certain that two people who were in love and had a commitment can indeed find it again. But, it doesn't happen overnight. I think he is being held back by something and it puzzles even him. It seems he wants empathy from you where he is at with his head/thoughts... how he just can't switch his brain off and reload it with you. Its definitely a true test of a spouse who can love her H as he mourns the loss of his AP.

All in all you stand very clear that you will be okay with or without him - that scares him because what if the AP doesn't want him any more???

Hang tight.

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(((may)))

Hang in there, be strong for your D's, shelter them from the conflict between you and H as best as you can, take it day by day. Breathe. Things will get better.

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Thanks WF, KC. It is hard for me to put into words how much all of you and your encouragements mean to me.

KC, I have been thinking of you recently, especially yesterday as I felt such a compulsion to do things I know I shouldn't-- touch the hot stove, as they say on your thread. And I wanted to say how much I admire you, your honesty in your posts, the authenticity with which you are sharing your feelings and difficulties as you traverse this hard and unfair path. Thank you for posting and sharing. It helps.

FWIW, I don't think H ever chose me over AP. He chose our life and the children. But, you know, True Love conquers all, in the end.

Wayfarer... somehow, that last line, stone cold fox/level headed boss b!tch... that is EXACTLY what I needed. I don't know how you do it but you always do. Time for me to pick myself up, dust myself off, gather the shreds of dignity around me that are super tattered from yesterday, and move on.

And I know you're right about stopping thinking about AP and giving her so much power over my sanity. She's not worth it and neither is he. I just need to figure out how to focus on one step at a time, right in front of me. Get through that one before I worry about the next. (That is not my usual MO so hard for me.)

This morning, I told him (calmly) that I am filled with a scary rage and I don't know what to do with it. I don't want the children to see me like they did yesterday. I said what I needed was to have him out of the house and to get the things worked out that needed to be worked out so that we can see each other as little as possible going forward.

He said, if you guys care, he doesn't understand me flipping between being sad and being mad. I said, why? He said because sad means you want to be with me and mad means you don't. If him walking is such a bright line for me than why am I pushing him so hard over it? And he said he laid in bed awake all night thinking about the crying scene with the children and trying to figure out if he "could" stay. Don't do me any favors, @-hole.

Oh, and here's the best one, I forgot to tell you guys this yesterday. I'd emailed him a list of 36 questions to ask on a date, (the "scientifically proven to fall in love" ones) as I had been thinking after being back from the trip and not wanting to push anything but knowing he was judgy-judgy on the state of our R, that maybe something like going through those questions could be a way to reestablish emotional intimacy. He emailed me back yesterday and said, do you want to do these questions? Why didn't we do them last night? (We'd talked about them as the start of our conversation was more about us not having the emotional/romantic connection before he got to the decision to go.) To which I replied, it isn't like a race to get through as fast as possible. He wrote back, well, what do you need? Like three nights? Let's do them. I said, don't condescend to me. Like really. In what world is it appropriate to work on rebuilding our emotional intimacy the day after you tell your W you have decided to leave her for your 2.5 year long AP? I wonder if in before-times I would have been taken in by that? Is that the charming narcissistic sociopath peeking through?

In any case. Today he is looking at two apartments. I need to open a new bank account, move my direct deposit there. Get out all our financial paperwork to make sure I have updated numbers. Write up a draft agreement on child custody and financial arrangements for the near term so we can get some stuff down on paper while I think on whether I want to go the post-nup S or straight to D route. Figure out what to tell the children and when, and if we want/need to let them know he's living in the basement as a first step until he has his place. (Thoughts on this one? I feel like it would be better for it to be more of a done deal when we tell them and he actually goes, so that they don't think they can/should be able to change his mind? I worry about this. But then on the other hand it is more pretending until he can find a place. With COVID it isn't like he could go crash on someone's couch... not that any of our friends would have him anyway.)

Love you guys. xx


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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U... thank you. Breathe. I have to remember that. Yoga, meditation... that will help me too if I can only get myself to do it.


Me (46) H (42)
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May

I have been following your sitch a little and i admire you for standing for your M for so long, for being so patient.

But i admire you the most for openly saying that you actually dont want this s@@tbag in your life! I can imagine its painful and you feel angry, but after reading your last post i deffo know you will be just fine, in fact you and yoir kids will be just fine. You H can continue to mope around somewhere else, honestly he hasnt hit rock bottom yet and it very much looks like he needs to.

Youve got this!

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