Finding the man I want to be, alone. Pack_19 part3

[Pack_19]

Hire a private investigator

hi LH,

are you suggesting it because in your eyes it is obvious or because I need to assume it is impossible to talk to her? I see this as very aggressive towards the other person, isnt it?

Every time she calls S6 she is out either with her friends or her "supercool" single cousin she is so close with now, this is why I have no major suspicion.

thanks again!

[Pack_19]

I told her that was a very unfortunate message, I was not proud of it and I thought there was value in our family and that she was the best thing that ever has happened to me.

This behavior is repeated over & over again. The words may change a little from time to time, but the message you put out there is the same.

This action is self-defeating, b/c you pursue a wife who no longer wants you. You continue the same behavior and expect different results.

I am feeling very discouraged lately because with a cold mind I see it has been 13 months and I have never received a sign of doubt or positive reinforcement from W. She is indeed done with me and all I think is that the problems we had are easily solvable.

In your opinion the problems are easily solvable. She does not agree with your opinion. You have tried to make her see your way is the correct way. She does not agree. She has the freedom to feel whatever she wants. The more you try to verbally convince her you are correct, the more you are defeated.

You see the separation as not being an open MR. Apparently, she does not agree. You say you will endure. What does that mean? You say every morning you recommit to your M. You say you believe in your M, and that you stand for your M. That is your personal decision, however, you cannot force it upon her.

Getting the results you desire doesn't depend on how much you love your W. It doesn't depend on how strong you are committed to your vows or stand for your M. None of that was ever the issue in your W's decision to leave you. If being given another chance was left up to you...........then these would be of great importance. However, being given another chance is not up to you. It's up to the one who left. It is her decision, and you are not going to change her mind by telling her how you feel. Currently, it makes no difference to her how much you value the M. The more you try to try to talk her into changing her viewpoint, the more she resents you.

You don't want to file for D? Fine, then don't file. However, stop sharing YOUR feelings and YOUR viewpoints about the M with your estranged W. It only adds coal to her fire of resentment.

hi Sandi,

Please don't feel like I have not listened to you but let me ask you something. You say rightfully that the problem that lead to this S was not my lack of commitment or lack of love for her, I neglected the intimate relationship with her and let the pressure of our conditions turn me into a bitter and pessimist person anyone should be entitled to leave. Now I try to show her my appreciation, my love and respect and all it does is add up resentment? You have told me in many occasions it is not the time for showing that love but she keeps repeating to me that she wants to see that loving and new person before coming back. She has told me many times you cannot turn into a loving and nice person only when I say "oh yes Pack, I want to save the M". Not that I want to give importance to what she says, this is really one of the few things she has repeated over and over.

To me, enduring means focusing on the good things in our M and the changes I need to make to give her the best incentive to come back. It means deviating my attention to other things, friends, the kids, my career, excercise... while I patiently wait for her to make a decision. It does not mean being the one who files and it does not mean living as if we were divorced.

When last month I was rereading DR I stuck into my head that blaming and asking for dates was a waste of time and only harmed me more. I thought, ok let yourself switch into inaction, leave her be and do not pressure her. We came back from holidays and she was back on fire telling me we had no future at all and to only speak about the kids. When I sent her the message about an open marriage I had a huge step back, I am not sure how to react now and I am trying to follow your advice on letting the 15 days go by without contact.

I have made up my mind that I will not file unless W is having an A in front of me. I dont think that is the situation so then I can refocus on me and endure. Sandi, aside from my ups and downs and the need to refocus on me, how do you see my current situation?

Given the decision to go on without filing and the time that has passed since this nightmare began. How do you recommend I act?

Getting the results you desire doesn't depend on how much you love your W. It doesn't depend on how strong you are committed to your vows or stand for your M. None of that was ever the issue in your W's decision to leave you. If being given another chance was left up to you...........then these would be of great importance. However, being given another chance is not up to you. It's up to the one who left. It is her decision, and you are not going to change her mind by telling her how you feel. Currently, it makes no difference to her how much you value the M. The more you try to try to talk her into changing her viewpoint, the more she resents you.

It is entirely up to her and I have accepted that. Now it is a time in my life to change and grow, that is all I can control. Would it help if I become resentful towards her? I am trying to avoid those feelings as I think they only bring more harm. It is being very hard for me to remain a polite father, and that is all I should be in front of her now.

Let's get back to building that amazing life without her and GAL. I still have patience in my pockets.

Posting again in case Sandi comes by!

[LH19]

I would be absolutely shocked if your W has not had sex with another man. It’s just the reality of being single. If you want to know then find out if it’s a deal breaker for you.

[Ginger1]

Emailing, calling, or texting your wife demanding her to tell you if she has been with someone else is pretty aggressive.

She will probably just tell you it’s none of your business. And you won’t get the answer you seem to so desperately need.

In her mind she has left the marriage and is single. Even if it isn’t on paper. So I imagine it is very possible she’s been woth another guy on some level. I’m sorry

[unchien]

Are you suggesting maybe my mindset should change to something similar to my actions saying W, R is not on the table anymore based on your actions along this S, I am taking control of my life again?

NOO!!!

Here is my view on control: Most of us respond to these situations by letting our emotions control our actions. We are passengers in a driverless car careening down the freeway. Helpless victims to the whims of our WAS's gone wild.

You do have control. Just not in the way you see it. This isn't about controlling your W. This is about *your emotions about your W* controlling you. You can't handle the extreme emotions and want to do something, anything, to soothe yourself.

I've been there too, I am not judgmental about this. Take back control by separating your actions from your emotions. Try spending a day doing absolutely nothing about your situation. No texts, no reaching out. Breathe. Suffer. FEEL your emotions and just let them be.

Eventually if you work at it your mindset WILL change. You will recognize your emotional state and be able to take a pause before making any decision. That pause, my friend, is control.

[sandi2]

I neglected the intimate relationship with her and let the pressure of our conditions turn me into a bitter and pessimist person anyone should be entitled to leave. Now I try to show her my appreciation, my love and respect and all it does is add up resentment?

This is not exactly how you initially described your sitch. You said you followed old traditions and felt the H's responsibility was to provide for his family. You worked long days to provide well for them. You also stated that some of the old traditional ways were to pursue, and that's basically all you had known to do. You posted that your W was unhappy b/c you did not spend enough time with her. Your current post has a different tone.

You have told me in many occasions it is not the time for showing that love but she keeps repeating to me that she wants to see that loving and new person before coming back. She has told me many times you cannot turn into a loving and nice person only when I say "oh yes Pack, I want to save the M". Not that I want to give importance to what she says, this is really one of the few things she has repeated over and over.

This is the first I've heard about her telling you any of these things^^^^^^^^. You have shared with us how angry she was every time you tried to talk to her, blaming you for everything, and telling you she would never go back to you. So now, you are saying she keeps repeating how she wants to see that loving and new person before she goes back?

When last month I was rereading DR I stuck into my head that blaming and asking for dates was a waste of time and only harmed me more.

LAST MONTH? Are you saying you've been asking her for dates? According to what you posted, you were trying to not contact her, except regarding the children. So, which is it?

I thought, ok let yourself switch into inaction, leave her be and do not pressure her.

This is beginning to frustrate me! You make the above statement as if the thought just occurred to you, after reading the book again. What about all those times we have told you to leave her be and not pressure her? Were we just blowing in the wind?

When I sent her the message about an open marriage I had a huge step back, I am not sure how to react now and I am trying to follow your advice on letting the 15 days go by without contact.

How many times have you contacted in some form or fashion since that original message about an open marriage? Do you remember why I told you not to contact her for the 15 days?

Originally Posted by sandi2
Getting the results you desire doesn't depend on how much you love your W. It doesn't depend on how strong you are committed to your vows or stand for your M. None of that was ever the issue in your W's decision to leave you. If being given another chance was left up to you...........then these would be of great importance. However, being given another chance is not up to you. It's up to the one who left. It is her decision, and you are not going to change her mind by telling her how you feel. Currently, it makes no difference to her how much you value the M. The more you try to try to talk her into changing her viewpoint, the more she resents you.

What I meant, Paco, is that your W left you b/c of how she feels. She was fed up with you and the MR. According to previous information you have given us, she is filled with a lot of anger and doesn't want you talking about anything other than the kids. IMHO, that's a clear indication that your love & commitment is not the issue that is preventing reconciliation. You seem to believe you can change her mind by talking about the relationship. She has told you she does not want it. Even after you heard she cheated, you want to discuss it. Let me tell you something, and please listen. If your W left you for any other reason than healing and working toward reconciliation.........then she sees her business as private. In other words, she doesn't believe you have any right to say something about her seeing OM. That is the thinking of modern women these days. She won't be impressed by your threats. Neither will she be impressed if you endure her affairs.

I can't help but wonder if you have kept some of your actions hidden .........knowing you shouldn't be pursuing her. There have been a few times I have wondered if you say what you think we want you to say. Previously, I thought it was due to the language or style of writing. After reading your last post to me, I just don't know what to think.

[Pack_19]

Hi all,

thanks a lot for your help and comments. I did not want to write a long post and I kept the messages short but given the confusion caused let me try to clarify.

I neglected the intimate relationship with her and let the pressure of our conditions turn me into a bitter and pessimist person anyone should be entitled to leave. Now I try to show her my appreciation, my love and respect and all it does is add up resentment?

This is not exactly how you initially described your sitch. You said you followed old traditions and felt the H's responsibility was to provide for his family. You worked long days to provide well for them. You also stated that some of the old traditional ways were to pursue, and that's basically all you had known to do. You posted that your W was unhappy b/c you did not spend enough time with her. Your current post has a different tone.

I have always loved my W and I did focus on providing and achieving the best for our family. During the last year of our M I was under great pressure because S2 had just been born and I created this silly idea on me that I had to push for a better house, job and life in general now that we had 2 kids. Intimacy went down the drain with a baby next to us and an au-pair in the room next to us. Now looking back I can realize back then she was already resentful, she would not appreciate any of my actions or suggestions and she also pulled away from me. Being in this dark place I became irritable and I cut conversations. I dont think I have been a poor husband, I just did not prioritize the M as I should have done and I assumed my definition of love (bigger house, better school, helping her find a better career) was her definition as well. I am not trying to change the message, I am just saying by the end of the M I had also become a person you would not go have a party with, just some reflections on my side of the problems.

You have told me in many occasions it is not the time for showing that love but she keeps repeating to me that she wants to see that loving and new person before coming back. She has told me many times you cannot turn into a loving and nice person only when I say "oh yes Pack, I want to save the M". Not that I want to give importance to what she says, this is really one of the few things she has repeated over and over.

This is the first I've heard about her telling you any of these things^^^^^^^^. You have shared with us how angry she was every time you tried to talk to her, blaming you for everything, and telling you she would never go back to you. So now, you are saying she keeps repeating how she wants to see that loving and new person before she goes back?

These comments happened only during covid lockdown on a number of conversations we had in a better tone when exchanging the kids. She has always been angry and resentful towards me. She told me to stay in Germany, that I am the source of all her problems, she talks to me in imperatives only and keeps saying I need to see things her way and that I am the one to blame for all that happened. Those comments about me being nice even when she is b@tchy were a number of calm conversations during covid and you helped me have a very clear picture that they meant nothing so I never gave them more importance.

When last month I was rereading DR I stuck into my head that blaming and asking for dates was a waste of time and only harmed me more.

LAST MONTH? Are you saying you've been asking her for dates? According to what you posted, you were trying to not contact her, except regarding the children. So, which is it?

I have not asked her for any dates, I just re-read the book and many of my mistakes during the past months came to my mind so I made notes about them. Our last interaction was when she had the children last Wednesday afternoon. At 21 she was meant to bring them here and I got an angry call saying "Are you going to pick them up or not? You dont know the things I have to do or the plans I have to go out." I told her we had not agree the pick up and that I was expecting her to bring them. Her reply was "You told me that! how long will it take you? let me know I will come down"
Then she hanged up, I tried to call to explain I could be home waiting for them because we had not agreed on that but she would not pick up. I ended up going to grab the kids and she was there with her mom, they were probably going out for dinner, I dont care. I picked them up and we went home.

This ^^^^ is how she behaves with me. No talks about me being loving.

This is beginning to frustrate me! You make the above statement as if the thought just occurred to you, after reading the book again. What about all those times we have told you to leave her be and not pressure her? Were we just blowing in the wind?

No, I have stopped the contact and the pressure.

How many times have you contacted in some form or fashion since that original message about an open marriage? Do you remember why I told you not to contact her for the 15 days?

You told me because you thought she would test me right? Even if it does not mean being ready to work on the M. I have not contacted her aside the kids. Yesterday I went shopping for school material for S6 and I sent her an email "W I am shopping school material and clothes for S6 today, if you want to join us just let me know"

What I meant, Paco, is that your W left you b/c of how she feels. She was fed up with you and the MR. According to previous information you have given us, she is filled with a lot of anger and doesn't want you talking about anything other than the kids. IMHO, that's a clear indication that your love & commitment is not the issue that is preventing reconciliation. You seem to believe you can change her mind by talking about the relationship. She has told you she does not want it. Even after you heard she cheated, you want to discuss it. Let me tell you something, and please listen. If your W left you for any other reason than healing and working toward reconciliation.........then she sees her business as private. In other words, she doesn't believe you have any right to say something about her seeing OM. That is the thinking of modern women these days. She won't be impressed by your threats. Neither will she be impressed if you endure her affairs.

At the beginning of our S at home in Munich she told me many times I was the problem and I had to change but that she was tired of fighting for something that has never existed. At the same time, she kept saying she was 99% sure she would not be able to fall in love and be attracted to me again. Since she moved out her speech has been this is forever and I have told you multiple times. Those comments about me being the issue, me having to change made me think that she was not sure and there was a chance for R. However, her actions speak very clearly.

I can't help but wonder if you have kept some of your actions hidden .........knowing you shouldn't be pursuing her. There have been a few times I have wondered if you say what you think we want you to say. Previously, I thought it was due to the language or style of writing. After reading your last post to me, I just don't know what to think.

I have not hidden anything. Now we see each other more often because we have on day for visitation with the kids when they are staying with the other. This is being very hard on me because I see her and I feel impulses to be fun, to approach her, to ask her about her day but all I get is "I dont want to talk to you"

I hope this can help clarify the current situation. As I said yesterday I went with S6 shopping for school and then we ordered sushi at home. Being there for his first day at school has felt great.

I run today my first half marathon in 1:46:20 and I am incredibly proud of this!! Tonight I am meeting some friends for drinks and I will probably try to take the kids to the cinema this afternoon, let's see if I can find a move in English in our local cinema.

I am starting to think in a healthier way but I am still torn by what has happened. You all are helping me to understand she sees herself as single and free. I dont see myself that way, to do so I would need to D. This conflict of perceptions hurts a lot, I need to go through that pain and think about me and what I want to do. I will keep waiting those 15 days with no contact and making myself a better person.

Thank you all!
((hugs)) Pack

[Pack_19]

hi all,

Let's see if this time I get it right. I am in a very emotional moment now and very lost regarding what to do. I heard W was unfaithful but it is a topic I cannot talk to her about, in the meantime she keeps being resentful towards me. At some point I need to decide what to do next, based on my principles and any hopes I can still hold for my M.

However, it is not a good time to take action and make a decision. For 15 days. I can just do nothing, let days go by and work on calming down and keep GAL and making me the best I can be. Do you think this path will help me or based on the amount of time we have been S do you see little if not any hope at all?

It is true I have been THE most unteachable person in this board, I guess this is why I have hope if I can do what the members of the forum advice, at least I will be able to sit down and enjoy life aside of what W does or doesn't do.

Thank you all for your honesty and help. ((hugs)) Pack

[LH19]

Pack,

You are spinning buddy.

If you want to know if your W is being unfaithful then hire a PI. If you don't then start living your life for you and your kids and eventually it will play out.

If you want honesty then I would say it's not looking good for you right now. You have been separated for over a year and still have not learned to not pursue and control your emotions.

You have zero control in the outcome and I can tell for you is a bitter pill to swallow.

I am sorry but you are your own worst enemy my friend.

[BenB]

Pack, In my opinion, you should work on detachment. You are way too attached right now