Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Look man I don't agree with you but you have to do what's right for you.

Do not pursue and she has to do the hard work to get back in your good graces.

Only time will tell if you know her like you think you do.

Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 274
I
Indy470 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 274
LH,

I get that and I respect that.

I wont pursue, I wont drop everything. I'll keep focusing on me.

I agree time will tell. Until then for me its patience and trying to hold onto what I believe.


I think you should stay on the boards, LH. You give good advice and its clear that you're here to help people.

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by Indy470
You both have questions about 180's and the Last Resort Technique- Can they go too far?

Look, the important part of doing a 180 is introducing the unexpected into your interactions. This doesn't mean that you should completely withdraw. Nor does the LRT mean that either. Doing the LRT means stopping the begging, pleading, pursuing, getting a grip on your own life and being more upbeat. But if your spouse starts to take an interest, that's a good sign and you should be available. Not clingy, mind you, but interested.

I think it might be tempting to back off completely and stop having contact because it might feel safer not to interact at all.But neither technique suggest your doing that. Re-read page 130. I wrote that if your spouse starts to show interest, readers should "Be loving in return, but do not become overly excited or enthusiastic."

But the bottom line is this, the proof is in the pudding. If your spouse is responding lovingly, you're on the right track. If not, you have to finetune what you're doing. Hope this helps. Do re-read the section on the last resort technique. Okay?
Michele


So this is a post from michelle.
Thoughts?


Agree with MWD 100%. The only thing I would caution is that this doesn't mean that the minute the WAS responds lovingly, you go all in on pursuit and pressure again. I am sure MWD doesn't mean that. Be sure by giving it some time for consistency that it is NOT a manipulation attempt on their part. I've said it hundreds of times on this forum. When a LBS get really good at GAL, 180ing, detaching, and when necessary, LRT, the WAS will often feel the loss of control over their LBS. This makes them nervous because the one thing they feel they can rely on is the LBS being there as Plan B. So often then will start to reach out, start to respond lovingly, to make sure that the LBS is still firmly there as Plan B. Once they feel that is confirmed, the dynamic will go back to the way it was prior to the loving response(s).

So yes, if your WAS start responding lovingly, and consistently over time, and you can be sure it is more than a temp-check/manipulation attempt, then the LBS should start showing a little interest to test the waters even more.

We've seen it over and over again on this forum where a LBS responds to hastily to a "nice" response from their WAS only to see the WAS retreat the other way just as quickly.


You see I think your response Steve is going to be confusing to Indy. Her texting him I love you and miss you is pure manipulation on her part.

That's why I said consistently over time. If she's that good of a manipulator then he's screwed.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 586
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 586
Originally Posted by Indy470
Im looking for consistencey but my wifes not a bad person,
I think assuming everything is manpulation is a stretch. Shes a person too. She's just trying to figure out how to be happy too. I love her and respect her enough to give her time and space to figure that out
without me pursuing her

Is your wife a good person? what defines someone as "good" or "bad"? Shouldn't a person be defined by his or her actions? I believe everyone is multifaceted. Life happens and it brings out the worst or the best in people. You don't have to think of her as the bad guy here. But is what she's doing (or not doing) what you want in a life partner? Be careful of establishing a habit of constantly defending her (not to the board, to yourself).

In the beginning of my sitch, I would say to myself

My H is drinking heavily because he has childhood trauma, he's not a bad person.
My H is withdrawing because he's depressed, he's not a bad person.
My H moved out because he wants space for himself and he's confused, he's not a bad person.

you can keep filling in the blanks.

I still think my H is not a bad person. But he is still someone who is not worthy of my time and love.


BD: Sep 2019
D in progress
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by wooba


I still think my H is not a bad person. But he is still someone who is not worthy of my time and love.


So wooba, would you say he's a good person? Assuming being good or bad is binary?


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by Indy470
I think assuming everything is manpulation is a stretch.

I was thinking about this more last night. IMO manipulation happens when words and actions don't match.

I looked up the definition of manipulation as follows " to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage".

So she texts you that she "love you". Does her actions match her words?

I looked up the definition of "love" as follows: "unselfish loyal and benevolent concern for the good of another"

So based on the information above her it looks like her actions are NOT matching her words.

So lets go back to the definition of manipulation: " to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage".

It’s a huge comfort to know that she has you to fall back on if things go badly for her. You've already proven that you'll jump at the "I love you" breadcrumbs thrown your way. You need to pull that safety net away entirely.

She needs to fully believe that you will not be there for her if she chooses to return, and that if she wants to come back she's going to have to work for it.

You can't tell her that, she'll never believe it. You have to show her that beyond a doubt with your actions.

I'm sorry Indy.

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 1
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,792
Likes: 1
LH ---- Very logical!

Indy ---- Very emotion based!

So you can't be logical with your WAS because its emotion based.

I've also determined you can't be very logical with LBS because they are very emotion based. smile

Indy, if only it was that easy right??? I certainly do tip my hat to you. While you did end up having a 4hr convo with her overall you've been very good about ignoring the majority of her texts. You've done better than I have by far. While I don't get the ILY or IMU I get plenty of texts looking for this or that, etc. and I seem to always have a need to respond because it seems "business". I wish I had cut him off soooner but I still wonder if I would cave again if he asked or needed something... I need to get more firm in my boundaries.

Hang in there Indy.

For what its worth I don't think you need to walk away if you don't want to but certainly temper your expectations for long term success. Your best bet as LH has pointed out is walking the opposite direction from her. You can do this!

Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 586
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 586
Originally Posted by Steve85

So wooba, would you say he's a good person? Assuming being good or bad is binary?

Ha. That's a hard one to answer. We all have our angels and demons. I don't think I would say my H right now is a good person. If I have to choose an adj I would choose.....egocentric.


BD: Sep 2019
D in progress
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 51
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 51
Originally Posted by wooba
Originally Posted by Steve85

So wooba, would you say he's a good person? Assuming being good or bad is binary?

Ha. That's a hard one to answer. We all have our angels and demons. I don't think I would say my H right now is a good person. If I have to choose an adj I would choose.....egocentric.


I have started to structure my good/bad person mentality like this.

"This person is acting outside his/her circle of integrity". This allows me to not pass judgement on them BUT also set the boundaries I need to stay emotionally safe. It doesn't matter if this is a temporary acting outside of... or chronic outside of....my actions still remain the same. If that person steps back into their circle, I can make adjustments from there.


M(f): 40
D'ed: 8/12

Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.

Love at all costs because you are loved well.
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 343
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 343
Likes: 1

I'd going to wade into this good / bad person debate after reading the local paper/ social media last night...

Consequences plays a large part of it in my opinion. Or lack of thought to the consequences from the cheater ..

Some may not be outright evil / bad people, but their judgment is clouded and they think nothing of others - This comes back to the impact of these decisions on other people – and its far reaching.. Its not just the LBS – its kids, its family, social circles, etc .

3 months ago a very popular guy died from the local car club. I didn’t know him, as I only really follow the scene online since having children. A lot of my friends from when I was in the scene knew him and left lovely tributes.
No details were released, but I’ll never forget the tributes – this guy was loved by all..

Last night the inquest verdict hit the paper – Death by suicide – He hung himself. His mother released a statement stating that his wife of 8 years had started to voice her unhappiness 2 weeks before, then hit him with the usual lines and she wanted a divorce – He drove to his work place and hung himself – leaving kids behind.

Social media was lit up last night over this, and numerous people stating she ended it because of an affair.

She did not force this poor guy to kill himself, but her actions caused him to flip.

Does this make her a bad person ? – The consequences of her decisions and actions caused another person to end their life.. Leaving children without a father and a grieving mother without a Son.. Ok, she probably didn’t that would happen – but that’s the problem – these WW don’t think about anybody but themselves.

LH hits the nail on the head with his post on manipulation. Its very rare a WW just gives the LBS the truth.. They play games, they lie, they twist it…

Just as it seems rarer to see a walkaway – ive lost track of the amount of people who come here, thinking there is no affair, to then actually read up on stuff, dig and go – “hmmm yeah- WW is cheating”

Its all about self-preservation, selfish needs and getting away with it / getting their affair fix – regardless of the cost – to the kids, LBS, family – or their mental health.

I think the people on this board are fortune – we come here and to a degree, we find answers – probably not the answers we came here for ( ie what can I say to win WW back 99% of the time ), but although we will never understand WW, we understand that we are not alone etc – some people like the poor guy I mention above go to other extremes.

An undeniably bad person would be a rapist, a murderer etc – but at the same time, nobody forced the WW to act in the way they do.. If you don’t want to label them as bad, they are definitely not nice people – they are selfish people acting in a bad way.. and not people who add value to your life..

Indy, you have stated a lot of red flags about your WW – the issues with friends etc.. All bad traits – You don’t think shes bad – well reading in from the outside, she has lied, cheated and manipulated you – argue all you want, but in my eyes, its mental abuse - these are not qualities of a good person – that’s 100% fact..


Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard