Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 11 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
Do he think he wants you to be the one to pull cord? So he looks like he is the one who gave it all and tried?

Like LH said, you are over analyzing because you are very fearful of losing him. To have this work in the long run, you need know your own value and worth. If he does choose to walk again, know that is not the worst thing in the world, because you are worthy of a faithful committed partner who loves and values you. And you would not want to be with someone who doesn’t .

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
PM99,

G-money is dead on but I often post the statement below and ask yourself honestly if your H's actions meet any of the three criteria.

As you probably know, the only way he's going to overcome that deeply held belief is for you to open the cage door and completely cut him free. If you engage in a relationship with him again it should only be under the conditions that:

1) He sees you as someone of extremely high value
2) He views a relationship with you as something much better than a life with someone else or a life alone
3) He's willing to work to win you

Without those three things, he's going to walk again down the line, because he really doesn't have the motivation to work with you to change anything, your relationship will keep seeking the same equilibrium it has had because of how your personalities and issues come together.

I am not saying to throw in the towel but what I am saying is you have to let go of the fear. Be your best self and if he walks he walks and just know that you did everything you could to save the marriage.

Truthfully I think your H is a scared little (another name for a cat) who is afraid to make a decision and stick with it. He is searching for happiness outside himself and believes the grass is greener. Unfortunately these people (my EXW is one) will never be satisfied until they find out. That's why you have to open the cage door letting them know they are free to leave if they so choose. I am a true believe that true reconciliations mostly happened when two people have gone and lived separate lives for years and mutually agree that there lives were better together than apart.

There is hope here but you can't force it.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,826
Likes: 156
Let me piggy back on to those 3 conditions LH states.

Yes he needs to see you that way. But he is never going to see you that way if you don’t see yourself that way first

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by Ginger1
Do he think he wants you to be the one to pull cord? So he looks like he is the one who gave it all and tried?

Like LH said, you are over analyzing because you are very fearful of losing him. To have this work in the long run, you need know your own value and worth. If he does choose to walk again, know that is not the worst thing in the world, because you are worthy of a faithful committed partner who loves and values you. And you would not want to be with someone who doesn’t .

Thank you Ginger. I do not even know if he wants either of us to pull the cord. He tells me today that I am acting like it is over and that's not the case. He wants us to have a nice long weekend together. I don't know how much of a factor his depression is and if that is related to us. He says he doesn't know what or why he feels so bad the last few weeks. He is in turmoil and feels overwhelmed with emotion - crying and teary every day- like the last 10 years of emotions are now coming out. This is probably a good thing. Work pressure isn't helping, working from home isn't helping, me being upset isn't helping. But none of those change the fundamental issue that we have been going round in circles over for the last 18 months.

I know he is asking for more time, but I don't know how much longer I can wait, because I do know that I want and deserve more and I told him this today. And he agreed and got upset that I deserve more than he is giving me. I don't actually think he is going to walk anytime soon so I don't really understand why I am in my own turmoil right now, and can't sit with this and shut up and see what pans out over the next few weeks of MC. It's so hard being his 'best friend' when I want so much more. And what he described he wanted to feel at MC yesterday really hurts - I would love to be on the receiving end of those feelings, and that passion that he wants to feel and give.

Originally Posted by LH
the only way he's going to overcome that deeply held belief is for you to open the cage door and completely cut him free.
He did open the cage door, he left and he came back. I am his comfort and security, when I'm not there, he has a deep need for me (his words). I have told him he is free to leave. Perhaps you are right re the Covid thing - I don't know what would've happened with EAP had he not been unable to travel away every week. Sometimes I do feel that the kindest thing would be to let him go. But I just cant do that right now - it's not what I want.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
PM99,

Before I forget can you add a signature like mine?

Originally Posted by Pommy99
He wants us to have a nice long weekend together.

Ok so have a nice weekend and be upbeat and positive and mirror his actions.
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I don't know how much of a factor his depression is and if that is related to us.

I'm sure it's a least a small factor in it.
Originally Posted by Pommy99
But none of those change the fundamental issue that we have been going round in circles over for the last 18 months.

Exactly
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I know he is asking for more time, but I don't know how much longer I can wait, because I do know that I want and deserve more and I told him this today.

Ok this is where you contradict yourself. If you love him and believe this is due to depression why not give him time?
Originally Posted by Pommy99
And he agreed and got upset that I deserve more than he is giving me.

This to me is WW BS. It's like the George Constaza "it's not you it's me bit" because he is too much of a coward to tell you the truth.
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I don't actually think he is going to walk anytime soon so I don't really understand why I am in my own turmoil right now, and can't sit with this and shut up and see what pans out over the next few weeks of MC.

I keep asking you PM99. What are you afraid of and you won't answer me.
Originally Posted by Pommy99
It's so hard being his 'best friend' when I want so much more. And what he described he wanted to feel at MC yesterday really hurts - I would love to be on the receiving end of those feelings, and that passion that he wants to feel and give.

You certainly can and should be just maybe not with your H.
Originally Posted by Pommy99
He did open the cage door, he left and he came back. I am his comfort and security, when I'm not there, he has a deep need for me (his words).

Sounds like you are more his Mommy then his W.
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I have told him he is free to leave.

Did you really think you could prevent him from staying?
Originally Posted by Pommy99
Perhaps you are right re the Covid thing - I don't know what would've happened with EAP had he not been unable to travel away every week.

What does your gut tell you?
Originally Posted by Pommy99
Sometimes I do feel that the kindest thing would be to let him go. But I just cant do that right now - it's not what I want.

So is this all about what you want? And what do you want?

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by LH19

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I know he is asking for more time, but I don't know how much longer I can wait, because I do know that I want and deserve more and I told him this today.

Ok this is where you contradict yourself. If you love him and believe this is due to depression why not give him time?
I've given him 18 months. He asked for more time 12 months ago (and 15 months ago and 9 months ago) and all he did was carry on an EA and then leave anyway. He was on ADs back then as well

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I don't actually think he is going to walk anytime soon so I don't really understand why I am in my own turmoil right now, and can't sit with this and shut up and see what pans out over the next few weeks of MC.

I keep asking you PM99. What are you afraid of and you won't answer me.
I want the pain to end. I want to know if he's in or out. I'm afraid of more and more pain. I'm afraid of going through the S all over again.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Pommy99
He did open the cage door, he left and he came back. I am his comfort and security, when I'm not there, he has a deep need for me (his words).

Sounds like you are more his Mommy then his W.
I'm something other than a wife. He doesn't see me as a wife does he. I'm his friend.

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Pommy99
I have told him he is free to leave.

Did you really think you could prevent him from staying?
No, but I think sometimes he has felt guilty about hurting me and stayed longer than he would have done. I've told him he cant stay for guilt. Even though he's come back, he doesn't have to stay because he thinks he should, or because of the devastation, the upset kids etc

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Pommy99
Perhaps you are right re the Covid thing - I don't know what would've happened with EAP had he not been unable to travel away every week.

What does your gut tell you?
Don't know - I don't know enough facts, I don't know if what he told me is the truth (about how he ended it). I do know he had feelings for her that went beyond friendship and into the realms of desire

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Pommy99
Sometimes I do feel that the kindest thing would be to let him go. But I just cant do that right now - it's not what I want.

So is this all about what you want? And what do you want?
I want my marriage to work. I don't want to give up if I'm just trying to push him too fast. I've read about R & P - I know he is on his own timeline. Why am I trying to push too fast - he's back, he's doing MC, he says he wants to try.... What more could I ask for right now? I know romantic feelings might take a while to come back...I guess my worry is if that is even likely. I mean, we were in a pretty bad place for several years before BD. He says he wants those feelings to come back, but at the same time, they've been switched off for so long I don't even know if it's feasible. And he's describing wanting feelings that I'm not sure you even get after 20 years together. But then again, I dont know what's 'normal', or what other people experience in a long-term marriage.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Thank you for adding a signature and opening up about your sitch as I know this isn't easy for you.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I keep asking you PM99. What are you afraid of and you won't answer me.
I want the pain to end. I want to know if he's in or out. I'm afraid of more and more pain. I'm afraid of going through the S all over again. [/quote]
The thing is PM99 the pain will subside in time one way or another. If you stay in limbo the pain will continue because you will constantly wonder when the axe will fall again. If you D him you will have the pain of D and splitting time with kids, finances etc. There is no easy way out. That is why the best thing to do is to give him time and space and work on yourself so you are comfortable with either outcome. Your situation is quite like mine. I loosely reconned after a initial separation. What I always say is I wish I wouldn't have spent one minute trying to figure out what was going on in her mind and 100% focused on myself. Ultimately when she filed I felt at peace knowing I tried everything to save my family.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
Why am I trying to push too fast - he's back, he's doing MC, he says he wants to try.... What more could I ask for right now?

Because you think if he hurries up and announces his undying commitment to you that the pain will stop. Unfortunately it will not because you won't have any assurance it won't happen again.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
And he's describing wanting feelings that I'm not sure you even get after 20 years together. But then again, I dont know what's 'normal', or what other people experience in a long-term marriage.

This is what I call emotional immaturity. My ex has/had it. She told me she wants to feel butterflies in her stomach again. Not surprising her favorite show was the Bachelorette. Relationships later on in life are at a different level and are more about familiarity, history and stability. Its funny that all the married women I know want the butterflies and passion and all the singe women I know want the familiarity, history and stability. Can you say Grass is Greener?

I guess the moral of the story is the pain is not going to go away over night and embrace and use it to make changes and become the person you want to be. If he likes that person great! If he doesn't and thinks there is something better that's ok too. PM99 wins either way.

Last edited by LH19; 08/27/20 06:24 PM.
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 10
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 10
Hi Pommy,

(((hugs)))

I think LH is right... the way forward is really hard, no matter which way you go. Sticking it out. Moving on and going through D. There is no easy way out, unfortunately... though I think our Hs thought maybe there was. (jacka$$es.)

I guess my advice to you would be the same that you gave to me most recently on my own thread--- take a deep breath. Relax. Sit in the now. Focus on what it is that you need and want. Remember that you have the power here. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself and try to keep that focus on you, not on him. So what that he isn't feeling the butterflies yet? it will happen or it won't... but it isn't under your control.

You control you. So how can you take charge of your own feelings right now and not let his angst and depression and confusion affect you? my bet would be going back to the basics of self-care and removing all pressure from him... he is on his own journey right now, it may happen to be under your roof and he is trying to find his way back. Let him. Don't push him. Go back to the things that worked in the hardest times and practice them again so that you can maintain your sanity while he goes through this new phase.

Thanks for sharing the piecing thread-- it was really, really helpful for me and I'm sure for you too. I'm sure he sees your stress and concern with his turtle-like progress, and it probably adds to his own worries that he'll never get those feelings back or whatever. Remember-- assuming you still want to stand, you're in this for the long haul. If I put myself in his shoes, I could imagine feeling a lot of pain knowing how much pain he's already caused you and continues to by not snapping back into a passionate H... but conversely, I could also imagine the utter relief if I felt like my W was OK with where we were, taking it day by day, secure and confident in who she is and that this will all work out in the end. Right?

On asking about you talking with OM... that is kind of weird, I agree. My best guess is he was just fishing to see if you were still talking to him and felt like saying it would be OK was the only way he could bring it up without seeming jealous or insecure. He is also probably aware of how keenly he responds to the distancer-pursuer dynamic and the idea of competition for you, so maybe he's purposely bringing it up to see if it still provokes a response like that in him now that you are reconciling. And then the least optimistic reason might be because he is still in contact with his EAP or thinking about it, and tested you. (Seems like WSs often suspect their LBSs of cheating back... my H has been weirdly worried about this. I think it is just projecting.)

Hang in there, Pommy. Can you just have a nice long weekend and put all this stuff on hold for a few days? Just have fun together?


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
P
Pommy99 Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by LH

I guess the moral of the story is the pain is not going to go away over night and embrace and use it to make changes and become the person you want to be. If he likes that person great! If he doesn't and thinks there is something better that's ok too. PM99 wins either way.

I am trying so hard to move my mindset from fear to opportunity. I can spend my days worrying about where we aren't at right now, or the awful place where we might end up. I need to stop worrying about what might or might not happen. I do know (as you have said before) that fear will lead me to the very place I don't want to be.

Originally Posted by may22

Thanks for sharing the piecing thread-- it was really, really helpful for me and I'm sure for you too. I'm sure he sees your stress and concern with his turtle-like progress, and it probably adds to his own worries that he'll never get those feelings back or whatever. Remember-- assuming you still want to stand, you're in this for the long haul. If I put myself in his shoes, I could imagine feeling a lot of pain knowing how much pain he's already caused you and continues to by not snapping back into a passionate H... but conversely, I could also imagine the utter relief if I felt like my W was OK with where we were, taking it day by day, secure and confident in who she is and that this will all work out in the end. Right?
May, thank you so much for this ^^^ . This really made me stop and think about how I could help relieve him of the pressure and anxiety over my pain. I printed off some parts of the Piecing thread and gave them to him on Friday. (The bits about differing timelines, not having romantic feelings right away and various other bits.) I said that these were things I needed to keep reminding myself of and if he wanted to read them, he might be able to relate to some parts of it. I was out all day and he didn't mention anything about it in the evening. When we were in bed I asked if he had read any of it. I fully expected an excuse that he'd been too busy - after all, any M-related article I sent him last year was duly ignored, as had been my requests for MC. I was completely surprised when he said he had read it, and it did make sense to him. I was a bit floored. Talk about having no expectations, then....wow!! I said to him that I was OK with where we were right now, that I recognized that he was in a different place to me, and we'll take all the time we need (we had talked about this in MC, and MC had asked if we felt we were on the same train, on different trains, and that H was perhaps a few stations behind me). He thanked me for telling him that I was OK with where we are.. The rest of the weekend went reasonably well - I tried my very hardest to not to be down or upset or put pressure on. As always, we got on famously going shopping together, cycling, out for dinner etc. (True BFFs!!!). I did get upset at one point - as always, it's that lack of intimacy that is killing me (it's been 2-3 weeks). He did say he is struggling so much with that missing connection, that he is with someone whom he doesn't want to leave, cant imagine life without me, yet just cant find those feelings that he wants.

Originally Posted by may
On asking about you talking with OM... that is kind of weird, I agree. My best guess is he was just fishing to see if you were still talking to him and felt like saying it would be OK was the only way he could bring it up without seeming jealous or insecure. He is also probably aware of how keenly he responds to the distancer-pursuer dynamic and the idea of competition for you, so maybe he's purposely bringing it up to see if it still provokes a response like that in him now that you are reconciling. And then the least optimistic reason might be because he is still in contact with his EAP or thinking about it, and tested you. (Seems like WSs often suspect their LBSs of cheating back... my H has been weirdly worried about this. I think it is just projecting.)
He has never, ever asked a single question about OM up until then, so my hunch was he wanted to know if I was still in contact. It did cross my mind that he might want that challenge again and need to fight for me, but I don't want to play games - it could cause more harm than good. I could easily restore contact with OM but I don't want to. Regarding EAP, I've been a bit paranoid this last week, but I think that is more to do with my over-analysis of everything H does, than him doing anything suspicious. I had a dream last night that they were back in contact...ugh!!


We had MC today. We talked about how we communicate our intimate needs (or how we don't - we are apparently relying on each other to be mind-readers). MC asked how we would've communicated pre-BD days - the answer was we didn't, we just lost that whole connection, for years. MC wants us to try a program of Sensate Focus. I'm quite excited by this actually as I really welcome the opportunity of H and I in a low-pressure environment, just trying to connect sensually without all the pressures that are in place at the moment. For once, I am surprisingly optimistic. Rather than worrying that this might not re-ignite the passion between me and H, learning and growing in relation to my own sensuality and sexuality is something I can take forward with me, with or without H. I do recognize how my confidence has eroded over the years, how I've lost touch with being a woman because I spent all my time being a mum in order to escape the loneliness of my M. I also have spent many weeks/months wondering if what we are trying to create ever existed in the first place, and hence, questioning if we are trying to achieve the impossible, that H and I never had and never will have a good connection. But having read up on sensate focus, I am seeing couples that have taken their non-existent connection to levels that they never imagined (in all areas of their relationship). So for now I'm throwing away my worries about trying to achieve the impossible.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 10
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 10
Hi Pommy,

Things sound positive from my perspective, FWIW. I definitely think that you continuing to try to relax and remove pressure from both yourself and from your H will be helpful. As I said in my thread, I think your H verbalizing his desire to want to rebuild the M and intimacy with you, even within the context of the fears that those "feelings" aren't there yet and may not come back, is really positive. I think this just all takes time.

I imagine that the hurt and trust issues between the two of you have built up like a plaque that needs to be cleaned away, and you're gently dissolving that away... but it takes time and intention and making lots and lots of deposits in the "love bank" or whatever for that to happen, and until you're both cleansed and free of all the hurt and pain, it is probably going to be hard to build up the positive feelings and the emotional intimacy between the two of you. Like, adhesive isn't going to stick to a dirty surface, you've got to clean it off first. And/or, imagine the hurt/betrayal as layers of paint... the positive interactions an acts of love between you are slowly dissolving each layer, but you're not down to the bare wood yet, and you're making progress even though it might not feel like you are because you're still seeing that dingy paint.

It just seems to me that those feelings of love and connection and trust aren't going to come back when there is still so much anxiety for both of you-- and if they do, which maybe it did for your H when he had MO and was freaking out he had lost you forever-- that maybe isn't the lasting, deep connection you need in an MR.

I worry about this (for both our Hs)-- that they're seeking the short-term dopamine hits of a new R, the fantasy, wanting what you don't have, limerence-- and that simply isn't ever going to last in the long term. I know my H doesn't believe his R with AP was fantasy and that it went far beyond limerence. He thinks it was true love, this super deep emotional connection and that is what he craves. I think he thinks (or is afraid) that the damage done between us was too deep to ever get that back. Maybe he's right, I don't know. And maybe they did have this amazing connection that is unlike what we ever experienced and would last beyond the A and the honeymoon phase. Who knows... but my hunch is that it is an idealized view of a romantic R, and that reality, especially with me and kids and bills and chores, will never compare. Do you think this this an issue with your H? that he has an idealized view of R and what his "feelings" should be? I think if he's seeking something specific, he's probably bound to be disappointed. If he can also let go of his own expectations on what things should or shouldn't feel like with you and just be for a bit, keep up with the paint remover, you'll slowly dilute the bad feelings and trust and romantic love will come back.

I also wonder if it is redefining love as not a feeling but an action, understanding the ups and downs of relationships and not freaking out on the days you don't feel the in love feelings. I feel like your H is freaking out a bit. How can he relax?

Originally Posted by Pommy99
As always, we got on famously going shopping together, cycling, out for dinner etc. (True BFFs!!!).

UGH. This is my H and me to a T also. It bothers me a little to give into that BFF thing like I'm just showing him that I'm willing to be friends w/o benefits... do you feel that at all?

Originally Posted by Pommy99
Rather than worrying that this might not re-ignite the passion between me and H, learning and growing in relation to my own sensuality and sexuality is something I can take forward with me, with or without H. I do recognize how my confidence has eroded over the years, how I've lost touch with being a woman because I spent all my time being a mum in order to escape the loneliness of my M.

This is fantastic-- I'm really glad for you. Super interested to hear how it goes-- please keep us updated! (My H is steadfastly uninterested in anything that smacks of sex therapy, unfortunately.) I'm going to bet, actually, that as you develop your own confidence in yourself and your sexuality, embrace your womanhood again and not just your identity as a mom, that is going to be quite attractive to your H.

Hang in there, breathe, focus on the now, let go of the fear. Things are better, maybe not on the timeline you wanted, but he's there, he wants to be there, he wants to make it work. You got this.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
Page 7 of 11 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard