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Thread #1
Questions for a LBS 5 months

Thread #2
Finding patience and facing fear

Quick notes: H (45) BD Aug 2019, no kids, M 16yrs, EA - April 2019...prob over not sure. H in full ignore /running behaviour mode while still living here

The storm has not passed and continues to flare up and die down, but yet I feel a stronger calmness that has come over me....it comes and goes but I like how it stays a little longer now. Still so many questions...

From my previous thread and post (full story one thread back), I just experienced a verbal spew from H and walked away wondering the following:

Originally Posted by Kindly
Since then the excessive exercise has ramped up to a ridiculous level again, and I feel like he’s crawled back into a deeper whole then where he started.

Did I handle this ok?
Should I let this stop me from safety having people over again?
For my own curiosity is anyone an expert of MLC stages? What stage does this behaviour seem like?
Why is the behaviour so backwards? (back to a month after BD)
Could his return to work and the potential to see ow (from 1year ago April) be a trigger of some sort?

Sorry lots of curiosity questions....but still focusing on me.


I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that he’s gone so deep into disconnecting and ignoring again but he’s added some new strange behaviours..ie: installing camera, closing off rooms, comes upstairs and doesn’t turn any lights on, working 14 hr days then excessively exercising as soon as he gets in, sharing our business with neighbours. Maybe this is all normal but it seems very regressive and back to the beginning. But I guess that’s all part of this.

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Originally Posted by Kindly
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that he’s gone so deep into disconnecting and ignoring again but he’s added some new strange behaviours..ie: installing camera, closing off rooms, comes upstairs and doesn’t turn any lights on, working 14 hr days then excessively exercising as soon as he gets in, sharing our business with neighbours. Maybe this is all normal but it seems very regressive and back to the beginning. But I guess that’s all part of this.


Imagine what kind of head space one would have to be in to install cameras and sneak around in the dark of their own home. Paranoid? Suspicious? Scared? Delusional? I could add to this list, but all the adjectives point to being mentally very unhealthy. If you were to come across someone on the street exhibiting these signs, maybe they are muttering to themselves or screaming at no one, you would likely just cross the street. But you wouldn't take it personally and it likely wouldn't have too huge of a negative impact on your day. Can you view H as that person when he behaves in strange ways?

Regarding your backyard get-together, I don't know where you fall on this spectrum, but I still fall into the category of wanting to be a good wife, not make him too angry and tend to do things that look like 'nice-ing him back'. (I am working on all of this). So when I read your story, I wanted to jump in and not let you take it for one second. You deserve to have friends over in a socially-distanced safe manner and he does not have a right to infringe on your life like that. You did nothing wrong.

((Kindly))

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((Kindly)) How are things with you lately? Did you decide to go for your backyard get-together? I like what Sage has to say (she's very wise! smile )--imagine what kind of headspace results in all of those actions. Despite his sometimes-tendency to talk loudly and happily on the phone... there's still all of this other behavior.

Originally Posted by Kindly
Maybe this is all normal but it seems very regressive and back to the beginning. But I guess that’s all part of this.


It's as if the part of us that sometimes wants to doubt that there is more going on with them than just being unhappy in the M (the days when we're still asking, Am I crazy? Am I imagining this?) ALSO sometimes wants to see them making "forward" progress, because, I guess, that would at least mean they were becoming recognizable in some ways again. But wouldn't that only be possible if there were not mental health/MLC-type issues at the heart of this? Just as the LBS's path isn't straight, neither is theirs, although I would guess their path has even more loops, because most of the time they can't even see the path they're on clearly.


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Thanks so much Sage4 and Cardinal,
Originally Posted by Sage4
Imagine what kind of head space one would have to be in to install cameras and sneak around in the dark of their own home. Paranoid? Suspicious? Scared? Delusional? I could add to this list, but all the adjectives point to being mentally very unhealthy.

Sage, I’ve been reading your input on others pages and am really taking something away from it...I think the backpack analogy and Dharma was you...love how this site makes me think and look at different perspectives. Thank you for being here...although under crappy circumstances.

The above is very true and still makes me so sad to think of how lost he is.

Originally Posted by cardinal
((Kindly)) How are things with you lately? Did you decide to go for your backyard get-together?.

Cardinal, thx for asking. Things have been very very quiet with H hiding, ignoring, working until I had my backyard get together. (I detailed more on my previous page right before this new link) ...he verbally went off the next morning and accused me of all kinds of wrong doings and stated that the house is going up on the market next month. Keep in mind everything is at a complete standstill with the L’s and there is still no FA.....I started to reason with him but quickly stopped when I realized what I was doing and ended with “do whatever you gotta do” and walked away.

Originally Posted by cardinal
Just as the LBS's path isn't straight, neither is theirs, although I would guess their path has even more loops, because most of the time they can't even see the path they're on clearly.

I am very aware of this now...just how unclear they are. When you strip it right down (in my case anyway) who goes to such great lengths to “flip the tables”, “travel more”, “be happy”, “make decisions” and then proceeds to stay in the basement splitting their time between work, video games and working out? Especially when they have the $ means to leave? Then the first time I do something for me (safely having 4 people over) ....they loose their mind?? Speaks volumes to me. This from someone who wants to keep things out of court and do everything amicably?? It’s been pointed out many times on here...their actions speak louder than words cause the words are an ever changing jumbled mess.

I guess what I’m struggling with a little bit right now, is why do MLCers want something SOOOO bad (be it to move out, divorce, sell the house) and then do nothing to achieve those “wants”? I know some do leave right away, but for the ones that don’t I would think that “negative pressure” they feel would constantly be there regardless of what I’m doing or saying ....

K,

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Originally Posted by Kindly
I started to reason with him but quickly stopped when I realized what I was doing and ended with “do whatever you gotta do” and walked away.


Bravo! Every once in a while I think of all the times I wish I would have bowed out during my H's last spewing. I fully plan to stick to that in the future. It's so hard when the impulse is to just reason with them, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Kindly
It’s been pointed out many times on here...their actions speak louder than words cause the words are an ever changing jumbled mess.

I guess what I’m struggling with a little bit right now, is why do MLCers want something SOOOO bad (be it to move out, divorce, sell the house) and then do nothing to achieve those “wants”? I know some do leave right away, but for the ones that don’t I would think that “negative pressure” they feel would constantly be there regardless of what I’m doing or saying ....


I was just talking about this with IC and then posted a little about it when I realized I was echoing your exact question in asking why my H has wanted D so much and needs it to find happiness, but then never files. It really is mind-boggling. This limbo can't be pleasant for them either, but I wonder if it is partly that they are able to check out from it, disassociate from reality enough to stay in their "happy" place. Even if, from the outside, it's pretty clear that where they are is not a happy place. Your list says it all.

Did you get those brownies made yet? smile


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Originally Posted by cardinal
Originally Posted by Kindly
I started to reason with him but quickly stopped when I realized what I was doing and ended with “do whatever you gotta do” and walked away.

Bravo! Every once in a while I think of all the times I wish I would have bowed out during my H's last spewing. I fully plan to stick to that in the future. It's so hard when the impulse is to just reason with them, isn't it?

Yes it absolutely is...but I have definitely learned from past engagements that it is pointless and futile and certainly doesn’t make me feel any better.

Fully confirmed H is in some phase now where it appears like he is literally waiting for anything to pounce on, yell about and accuse me of....messy, angry little person. The man I married is becoming more and more hidden. I don’t even see glimpses anymore. He seems so full of hate. This hurts.

The tongue lashing tonight was unreal. I am supposed to be able to read his mind apparently... Something we’ve been doing a certain way throughout all of this, I was supposed to know he now wants no part of. Then I asked if he wanted something in the fridge or freezer and the response I got was an attack about how I’m holding him up from selling the house, his L is waiting on my paperwork....the house has to be listed immediately etc... all of which is not true. My lawyer has all of my docs and says she’s still waiting on him and his full FD.

This is becoming frustrating because every time I reach out to my L I’m getting charged. I don’t want to keep “double checking” with her. He makes me feel like I haven’t done something. I’m so not accustomed to standing down, that this feels so wrong. The panic in me flares up and I feel like I’m going to get blindsided by something or screwed out of something by my ignorance in these proceedings.

How does he not know he is the one holding things up? Unless the two lawyers are playing a game??? Now he’s got me thinking all kinds of nonsense. I dislike other people (L) Speaking on my behalf, but in this situation I had no choice.

Why does everything he yells about sound so convincing? He’s become a master liar. Along with that is the pure awful “hate” energy emanating from him. Man is it strong. I think I need a house cleanse.

Cardinal I have yet to get to making those brownies! This week for sure!

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Hi

They get worse especially around D

AS D gets closer they get crazier.
It is a stressful time for all.

and I think they forget about their responsibilty with the papers and the documents their L is waiting for
because they don't want to deal with that part.

They just magically want all the assets and their freedom, at least mine did

Some of his anxiety and projected anger at you may be due to him knowing all he will lose in the D.
His fear of the future.

If you can read more about detachment: he is allowed to feel whatever he does
it is all your fault

You are allowed to say
sorry you feel that way and walk away
knowing you are doing everything you can to work this out or let him go in a loving responsible way

It is not you...practice and remind yourself
you did a really good job with a very difficult situation and his MLC is his from his childhood issues unresolved
You can not help him with that-


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Good Morning Kindly

Originally Posted by Kindly
Since then the excessive exercise has ramped up to a ridiculous level again, and I feel like he’s crawled back into a deeper whole then where he started.

Did I handle this ok?
Should I let this stop me from safety having people over again?
For my own curiosity is anyone an expert of MLC stages? What stage does this behaviour seem like?
Why is the behaviour so backwards? (back to a month after BD)
Could his return to work and the potential to see ow (from 1year ago April) be a trigger of some sort?

Sorry lots of curiosity questions....but still focusing on me.

My XW exercised to ridiculous levels as well. In fact she still does. Coming up on 5 years now of crazy exercising, sometimes 10-12 hours in a day.

As was said, the MLCer’s path is not straight nor linear. There are plenty of loops and twists; blind ends and backtracks. Still, whatever they follow is their path. I still have faith it is progress. One just doesn’t know how long their path is.

I like your questions and the curiosity. It speaks to me; that desire to understand.

You are doing fine. Handling things very well. You wisely back off when H spews, and understand why.

H’s behaviour should not prevent you from enjoying and living your life. Have people over. He can hide out in his room or go out for the evening if he wants. You control you. He controls himself.

H’s behaviour is mostly within replay. He might even still be involved with the EA. I do think he has peeked out of the tunnel a bit. Maybe even experienced some of the depression stage. He has also dragging back to the anger stage. Realize these stages are not strictly delimited, nor linear. People do bounce around them and can exhibit behaviours from more than one stage. However, overall and general behaviour of an MLCer can usually be stated as within a certain stage. Replay is the longest stage and covers a lot of weirdness and crazy “trying to make up for lost time” behaviour.

H’s closing himself off from the world and hiding away. Remember depression is within the entire crisis, it is always there for the MLCer. At times it takes hold more and pushes them. Progress, if you will. The stage of depression and then withdrawal are after replay, and will be extremely low points along the crisis person’s path. Depression, when everything they’ve tried in replay has failed, and life’s choices and their consequences cannot be ignored any longer, the MLCer will feel like a complete failure. Dark depression indeed, as they turn their gaze inward.

H is feeling some self pressure and is baiting you into anything he can use against you. He is looking for justifications and attempting to project upon you. And as you see, it is so irrational. He brings up is oddest stuff, like it is very important, and it causes one to question if what they are doing is right. And that is what H is after. MLCer’s are masters manipulators.

His apparent backward movement is from your perspective. One doesn’t know the MLCer’s path. Replay is a long stage as the MLCer relives their childhood trauma(s) and grows up from them. My XW went through a period of going to rock concerts and such. She doesn’t do that anymore (that I know of smile ).

One by one, their replay behaviours are experienced and hopefully put to rest. And then look to themselves. That is a daunting prospect for a person suffering a crisis, and they will put it off. Blaming the LBS, spewing, anger, projecting, and so on is standard operating procedure for a crisis person to keep from facing themselves.

Continue to wisely not engage. Lots of space and time, for H to see that his problems are not caused by you. The MLCer’s journey is all about them, not you.

Originally Posted by Kindly
I guess what I’m struggling with a little bit right now, is why do MLCers want something SOOOO bad (be it to move out, divorce, sell the house) and then do nothing to achieve those “wants”? I know some do leave right away, but for the ones that don’t I would think that “negative pressure” they feel would constantly be there regardless of what I’m doing or saying ....

Yes, some MLCers do blow up and leave right away. Most take a slower path.

These people are in torment. Past the point of reason and are driven by emotions and feelings. I want this. I want that. Like a child. And they want it now! It should just be easy. Quick. Simple. Lol. Not so! Welcome to the world of adult dear MLCer.

This is a good reason to leave the heavy lifting to them, for D, moving out, whatever. Let them own it. Let them figure it out.

I raised 4 teenagers, and I was one myself. Teens procrastinate. The MLCer is a teen; a terribly spoiled teen, with a huge bank account (for a teen). Their feelings of entitlement are off the charts. Imagine how you might have felt as a teen if you had money, cars, guys/gals, and so on - and had no underage limitations.

The MLCer is worse. They have an emotional axe to grind for their past trauma(s). They feel they need to make up for lost time and experiences.

So, why don’t they leave and grab that new life? Fear. Most “teens” don’t actually truly want to run away; they just feel that way, and like to threaten. My XW’s childhood was so bad, she actually couldn’t hardly wait to get away from her terrible parents. She left her parents and moved in with me as soon as she was 18. And thirty years later, she did it again. Me being her “parents”.

For those MLCer’s upon the slower track, sure there is a constant pressure. It’s why we don’t add to it. However, their pressure is from within and would exist if they left or not. Some do realize this at some level, I believe.

Within their confused addled mind are memories and feelings that don’t fit within their narrative and justifications. They will spew, fight, and argue, looking for the LBS to react so they can blame someone else.

Originally Posted by Kindly
Fully confirmed H is in some phase now where it appears like he is literally waiting for anything to pounce on, yell about and accuse me of....messy, angry little person. The man I married is becoming more and more hidden. I don’t even see glimpses anymore. He seems so full of hate. This hurts.

The tongue lashing tonight was unreal. I am supposed to be able to read his mind apparently... Something we’ve been doing a certain way throughout all of this, I was supposed to know he now wants no part of. Then I asked if he wanted something in the fridge or freezer and the response I got was an attack about how I’m holding him up from selling the house, his L is waiting on my paperwork....the house has to be listed immediately etc... all of which is not true. My lawyer has all of my docs and says she’s still waiting on him and his full FD.

This is becoming frustrating because every time I reach out to my L I’m getting charged. I don’t want to keep “double checking” with her. He makes me feel like I haven’t done something. I’m so not accustomed to standing down, that this feels so wrong. The panic in me flares up and I feel like I’m going to get blindsided by something or screwed out of something by my ignorance in these proceedings.

How does he not know he is the one holding things up? Unless the two lawyers are playing a game??? Now he’s got me thinking all kinds of nonsense. I dislike other people (L) Speaking on my behalf, but in this situation I had no choice.

Why does everything he yells about sound so convincing? He’s become a master liar. Along with that is the pure awful “hate” energy emanating from him. Man is it strong.

Yes. Master liars. They have too. They are lying to themselves; it needs to be convincing.

You know better.

You are right, H is waiting to pounce on anything. It doesn’t even have to make sense; and it probably won’t. He is irrational and looking for anything to blame you for. IMHO, that is progress. H’s narrative is loosing cohesion and he needs to glue it back together. Let him be. Give him to God. Focus on you.

Treat him like a roommate. His path is not about you.

Imagine a cashier at a store. They get mad at you, for some inconsequential thing. Sure, we are the customer, how dare you treat me like that. However, compassion, and let go of your ego. That cashier, that person, their behaviour is about them. Perhaps their Mom is dying of cancer, and they are right on the edge emotionally. Struggling to work enough to feed their daughter.

People’s actions and behaviours are not about us. I am just not that important. People’s paths and behaviours are about them. Our egos get in the way and make it about us.

Ego is not a bad thing. It is our narrative. The story we tell ourselves.

It helps to realize that ego needs to be right. It judges. It holds grudges. It makes things about you, even when they aren’t.

Letting go of one’s ego, brings peace and understanding. Ego is still there, and still speaks, one just realizes there is something deeper going on than it first appears.

Your curiosity and desire to understand. A good path, IMHO. smile

Have a great day.

D


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Dnj, Kindly,

I needed to read this this morning. I am not dealing with a spouse who is spewing anger, but I get the isolation that H is giving himself.

Kindly it is so hard. I am right there with you. Dnj, I need to continue to remember the roommate description and add on to it TEENAGER.

I do not want to hijack Kindly's post, but thank you both.

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Wow, thx peacetoday, dnj and PLC.

First PLC, pls write away! I learn so much from other people’s posts and I don’t feel like it’s a hijack at all!. I don’t comment often because so many more people give better advice than me. But I read and read and find so much comfort in (Sadly) the similarities in many of our situations, the wisdom, the learning and the growth that takes place here. I have never joined anything like this online and am so grateful for this place of comfort during such a time of confusion, sadness and loss. The words of so many people on here have helped dissipate some fear and kept me on the higher path of forgiveness while learning to detach.

Peacetoday, thank you!
Originally Posted by peacetoday
They just magically want all the assets and their freedom, at least mine did

This is so true of my H...I see it so clearly now. He hired a L from day one to deal with everything for him so he could just walk away and live his best new found life...but it’s not working for him in the way that he thought it would and he clearly doesn’t know what to do but make threats to scare me into a reaction of some sort. I will not bite.
Originally Posted by peacetoday
It is not you...practice and remind yourself
you did a really good job with a very difficult situation and his MLC is his from his childhood issues unresolved
You can not help him with that

This I can’t hear enough of...I’m doing the best I can in a difficult situation. I am truly finally starting to believe this. Thx for the reminder Peace!

dnj so much goodness in here ...I feel the need to quote your whole message!!! Lol!!! I don’t know where to start but feel the need to say thank you for taking so much time to give to others. Everything you wrote/write is so thoughtful and truly helps more than you’ll ever know.

Originally Posted by DnJ
People’s actions and behaviours are not about us. I am just not that important. People’s paths and behaviours are about them. Our egos get in the way and make it about us.

Ego is not a bad thing. It is our narrative. The story we tell ourselves.

It helps to realize that ego needs to be right. It judges. It holds grudges. It makes things about you, even when they aren’t.

Letting go of one’s ego, brings peace and understanding. Ego is still there, and still speaks, one just realizes there is something deeper going on than it first appears.

Your curiosity and desire to understand. A good path, IMHO. smile

Have a great day.
D

It is late here and I need to reread your full post but this ego part is really speaking to me tonight and I’m excited to go to sleep pondering this over. I may not be able to find answers pertaining to H...but I can continue investing in me!

My ego needs to take a chill pill. I do think it’s about me in so many faucets of my life. I worry to much about what people think, I consistently put others ahead of myself and when someone is upset I take it personally and sometimes will even wonder what I‘ve done. It’s draining. I’d like to keep the compassionate parts of this and learn to ditch the negative ego side (the judging of myself and H, the grudges etc) that creeps in and just live. MY. life. Being a people pleaser has not always served me well.

Thanks for saying I’m on a good path dnj ..your opinion means a lot to me smile

Be back after some zzzzzzz’s

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