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#2902316 08/18/20 11:47 PM
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Previous Thread:

Weird Question

I don’t know how to link my previous thread. But, long story short, H is living in D25 bedroom while she lives on the couch.

He drifts in after work and usually we will not see him until he drifts in the next day. I discovered OW2 but do not know the extent of their R. He asked for a divorce three weeks ago after 15 months of “not wanting to be married”.

I have really felt indifferent then overwhelmed in my own rollercoaster. One part of me wants to stay married and make this work, and another smaller part wants to do so many things, redo rooms in the house, travel possibly move, in a word, GAL.

I have started to really not wonder why he does what he does. (Example today, he came home from work and he had been near a bakery that makes bread I have really liked, and he brought me home two loaves as well as a chocolate crosiant) why? I don’t know. I can’t figure him out and that is not my task. I am learning my task is learning about me.

I am trying to 180 and maybe he sees it, maybe he doesn’t.

Today is an ok day. I am grateful.

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That's nice that he brought you some bread

They do it..
They have moments maybe guilt, kindness, and love
yes I believe they still love us-
they will extend themselves to the LBS
My XH did.
It is confusing.

You will know his thoughts as you watch his actions consistantly.
You will get more signs and clues

You are making shifts, 180's and changes
GAL and deciding your next steps.
.that is all great...We really have to do this work for us-

We can observe the MLC for clues as we still move forward

I strongly believe you will see and know what his next step is and if he turns back toward you
you will be there.
.if not you already have forward motion for a better change and life for u


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Thanks PT,

It really can be confusing if I let it be.

I know he thinks he know what he wants, but sometimes I wonder if he realizes it is such a mess and if so, does he even care?

I’m headed to work, it’s good to get my mind occupied with other things.

PLC

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Here's the link that will assist you when it comes to linking your next thread:

How To Link Threads



Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I have really been focusing on me while H is drifting in and out of the home. I never even saw him yesterday, (he was in the bedroom, holed up when I came home at 4:30 pm)

This morning, he left for work at 4:00. He came home around 1:00 he only said hi because I was in front of him and went in the room and had been there now almost two hours.

I can’t help but feel so frustrated. I don’t want to wonder, but I do. He’s completely removed himself from the home in the sense that he does not speak to me or our D25. Tuesday, he brought home the bread, and here we are on Friday with NC.

I understand he is unhappy with things. I understand MLC is depression. There is nothing I can do, so just continue for me?

I feel like I ask this enough to know the answer, but it’s tough. Also, on a side note, still have not done his laundry and he hasn’t either.

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PLC, this is my first time introducing myself to you, but I have been following your situation and I am so sorry you are hurting right now.

I know that there are people who have an IHS for years, but for me, living in the same home as my alien H was one of the hardest points in my journey so far. Rejection when an H is living under the same roof is felt every time you think of him. Which could be every other second, if he is just on the other side of the wall. I felt like there was no moving beyond the pain for me. So be gentle with yourself right now, this is super, super hard.

What can you do to get out of the house and not trigger the pain of rejection? I know that you work and likely you want to come home and unwind, but can you go for a walk with D? Or a socially distanced walk with a friend? Or a 20 minute workout (god bless the endorphins). ANYTHING to get your mind off of the fact that you are living with an alien whom you cannot understand at the moment? I too love to cook and realized that cooking was a trigger for me (H not swanning in and complimenting the smells and subsequent appreciation for the food I made made me depressed). So I stopped for a while.

Whatever it takes for you to feel whole for even a few minutes each evening, do it. You are not alone in your pain.

Hugs,
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Hi PLC,

You are certainly not alone and I find our situations have some parallels. The one thing that I found That has significantly helped me “continue for me” and drop the rope a little more when it comes to thinking about H and what he’s doing is:

1. Realizing and coming to terms with the fact that this person right now is a stranger and not someone I particularly want in my life in their current state. I can still hold out hope for that changing...

2. Realizing that I don’t have to make any epic decisions right now....I can just be. Focus the best I can on me and what gets me back on my feet....maybe it’s gardening, a hobby of some sort, family or friends from a safe distance, signing up for an online class...Something that makes you feel like you and takes the focus off of him and his comings and goings.
This continues to be a big trigger for me every time the garage door opens and closes....I fight the urge to run to the window ....

It’s not easy but we got this! One step at a time and by letting ourselves off the hook when we need to show ourselves compassion.

(((PLC)))
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Hi Sage and Kindly,

I am really trying, I actually before the second BD, discussed with him getting an piece of exercise equipment for the home since here gyms are closed. He was on board. Yesterday, it arrived. I already did a little test workout and I know that this will be my savior when I get home. He was home when it was delivered and did not interact regarding it until last night to just ask if “that the machine?”

It’s the weekend, I have some housecleaning I had planned, a workout, and a new book to read. I don’t know where he is or even when he left.

i still check his fake fb, (I know I shouldn’t, eventually I know I’ll get past it) and today he is no longer friends with OW2. Last night, I could hear his phone pinging with messages over and over. So who knows what happened. The last time I experienced this with OW1 they ended after a few on and offs.

Anyway, thank you both for reaching out. I find this board is so helpful even when I am just feeling low. We all unfortunately understand how confusing this is and all want to help where we can even if it is a question we know the answer to.

Have a great day.

PLC

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I enjoyed my new exercise bike so much, I did one workout this morning for about 30 minutes, then this evening I had no plans and D was heading out to safely meet a friend so I rode a “scenic” ride for an hour. I played the music that gets me motivated and feel very relaxed.

H, you ask? Oh he’s been in the bedroom since about two, so six hours. He did actually wander by earlier to wash ONE pair of pants when the hamper is full of his clothes. Whatever.

I know that having a workout to do in my own time with my headphones on and no one bugging me will be a great thing for me.

Also, OW2 is friends again in Fake Fb. The cycle continues.

PLC

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Posted on another thread about how before the initial BD I thought I was possibly facing H having dementia. Once the BD happened, it went away.

Anyway, my D25 told me that she told him he was having a MLC, he did not reply, and she thought that it began 2016-2107. Today, as I exercised (loving the pain it puts me through, I’m burning energy, great investment) I was thinking back to that time, he only wanted to watch old tv shows, like shows that were popular when we were kids. This is not a nostalgia thing, he literally will even now, watch reruns only. He can not grasp and concentrate on anything like a movie or mystery drama. Before the BD, we would go to the movies watch series on Netflix and have conversations about what we watched.

Thinking now, back at BD, I was so worried he was losing his memory. I now think he was trying to deal with thoughts that were bringing whatever trauma he experienced to the forefront and he was trying to ignore them. Watching old “Hawaii five-o” and “Beverly Hillbillies” and even “Andy Griffith” (I love that show too) was probably a comfort that took him in his mind to a different place.

None of these thoughts help now. It just helps me know that I am dealing with a damaged man who is spiraling. It helps me want to stand, but also makes me realize that if this was starting to happen four years ago and the BD didn’t happen for maybe three years, he processes slowly and I need to continue on my path where the only pain is from exercising. crazy

Anyway, chime in if you like. Have a nice day. PLC

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Posted on another thread about how before the initial BD I thought I was possibly facing H having dementia. Once the BD happened, it went away.

Anyway, my D25 told me that she told him he was having a MLC, he did not reply, and she thought that it began 2016-2107. Today, as I exercised (loving the pain it puts me through, I’m burning energy, great investment) I was thinking back to that time, he only wanted to watch old tv shows, like shows that were popular when we were kids. This is not a nostalgia thing, he literally will even now, watch reruns only. He can not grasp and concentrate on anything like a movie or mystery drama. Before the BD, we would go to the movies watch series on Netflix and have conversations about what we watched.

Thinking now, back at BD, I was so worried he was losing his memory. I now think he was trying to deal with thoughts that were bringing whatever trauma he experienced to the forefront and he was trying to ignore them. Watching old “Hawaii five-o” and “Beverly Hillbillies” and even “Andy Griffith” (I love that show too) was probably a comfort that took him in his mind to a different place.

None of these thoughts help now. It just helps me know that I am dealing with a damaged man who is spiraling. It helps me want to stand, but also makes me realize that if this was starting to happen four years ago and the BD didn’t happen for maybe three years, he processes slowly and I need to continue on my path where the only pain is from exercising. 😉

Anyway, chime in if you like. Have a nice day. PLC

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Most WASs are in a crazy state where they don’t remember things. Many who come out of it afterward will flat out deny having said or done certain things. I think it’s a feature of their depression.

That being said, true dementia can present as mood and behavior changes in some people. For those dealing with a loved one with true dementia, Dr Bredesen has just released a new (and better - more practical) sequel to his first book. It’s called The End of Alzheimer’s PROGRAM (as opposed to his first book which was just The End of Alzheimer’s ).

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Thanks KML, he seems fine now. It was just as it was happening, since I had no idea what was going on in his head, I jumped to memory loss.

This definitely is a rough road for both of us.

I am trying to do my best to keep putting one foot in front of the other.

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So today, I worked. When I came home D25 was on a conference call and H was in the bedroom, door closed.

I got changed, and I did 30 minutes exercise. When I was done, D was done and she left to see a friend from a distance, I took my shower, made dinner, read some and watched some tv. During this time, D came home and joined me. I heard H get up to use the restroom, but he never ventured out where we were.

I realized he has no where to go. His friends have families and jobs. His OW is in another country. He literally leaves for work early, and stays out and when he has no where left to go he comes home. His dad, who I can write a book on, lives in a nearby city and H doesn’t even visit him.

How hard this must be for him, to be so closed off, self imposed, but still. I did what I would do if he was eating with me or not. I also may have been laughing at my book, without a care in the world.

A friend of mine told me the water at the beach is warm here, so I think tomorrow afternoon I will head there,

Anyway, my thoughts tonight, as much as this is excruciatingly hard, I think it’s is worse for him.

PLC

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You are probably not wrong PLC. I remember having similar thoughts about my H during the thick of it. He had lied to so many people and had been doing it for so long... it must have been very lonely. No wonder he clung onto OW like a life preserver...that’s exactly what she was and, I suppose, continues to be. But...at the end of the day, you need to keep the focus on you and on creating a life that does not include him. It’s the only way forward as much as I know it isn’t what you want. I didn’t want it either. I felt like the people on this forum almost dragged me towards it at times because I definitely fought it. But over time, I realized that I didn’t NEED him to be okay. I needed me...whole and healed. It is a hard, hard road...no doubt. But when you get to the end of it, you will look back and be so happy it was the one you took.

Your beach idea sounds wonderful. Enjoy. (((HUGS)))

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Thanks DV,

I don’t know why, but i tossed and turned all night. I mean, why now?

It’s weird, he is only here to sleep. I am basically living here “alone” (D is here, but will eventually get a job and move out and on).

I can’t tell you the last time I planned anything with him in mind. Laundry is still in the basket. I have made him a roommate as had been suggested here.

Hopefully today I can get this feeling of uncertainty that I have dealt with. I don’t like it.

PLC

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Well, it is the afternoon now. He has been home for a while. He’s in the bedroom, of course.

I had a IC phone appt. and it was encouraging to tell her what’s been going on and have her support my standing.

She reminded me that his behavior was like this with OW 1. So it really is a waiting game.

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Good that you are getting support with IC
I found it so helpful to heal

Hang in there
You sound good


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THank you PT,

Tonight, I finally headed to the beach after work. D at first wanted to come, then changed her mind. It was surprising to see how many people were getting there at 5:30 like me.

I sat in the sand, ate dinner and read a book. I watched the waves, the flying kites and the windsurfers. H did not enter my thoughts as I have tried to mentally intercept thoughts regarding him and focus on something else.

He came home earlier when I was home for lunch and went straight to the bedroom and closed the door. When I left for the beach after work he was there. I just came home about a half hour ago and he’s in there.

Tonight, I will make plans for things tomorrow and a grocery list.

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Like it!

I love the beach..and I like how you shifted your focus when H came in your mind

That is the work right there- changing us

Its good to know the beach can become the safe go-to place for retreat and peace
whenever we can make the time and the weather is good-

Enjoy the day!


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Does anyone ever feel this is a futile effort?

I am currently experiencing total ignoring from H. Remember, he still lives here.

This has been a couple of weeks, but for whatever reason last night and this morning, I just feel defeated. Sunday, my D and I left to just get out of the house. When she went into her room to get some clothes to change into, i heard him ask where we were going. We were gone about five hours. We had a nice time. As far as I can tell, he did not leave the room for anything. I mean, he had the whole house to stretch out in, and he chose to stay in a bedroom. My IC said that is because he isn't "in the room, he is in fantasy land" I understand that, but it is still hard.

On Saturday, D was out and I was relaxing outside. He came and asked me how to use the new piece of exercise eqt. I got up and showed him. While "exercising", he was taking photos and at the end, when he asked how to turn it off, he was posting to his FB account.

I realize this is very juvenile behavior. He only asked me because D was out. I get that. I need to remember what IC told me, that he did this before with OW1. I just hate the rollercoaster.

I am working from home, so I am fitting household chores in as well. His laundry is still in the hamper, this has been almost a month. I will not do it. He can ship it to OW2 and have her do it for him. He fully knows how to do it, this is a battle of wills. "LIKE A TEENAGER"

I still love this man and I hope for a reconcilation. Every day, I continue to gal, (I mean he makes it easy, since he ignores me) I know that time is a gift and I need to use it wisely.

Today, I just feel dumb.

PLC

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Happy Friday,

Well with the long weekend upon us, I foresee a lot of GALing at home. The beaches here were closed Memorial Day and the 4th so, I predict, along with the heatwave, beaches will crowded.

IDK if H will be around or not, I am really trying to push him from my thoughts. It is not beneficial to me.

I still wonder if this is a futile effort, but I am not giving up today.

PLC

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Originally Posted by PLC
I still wonder if this is a futile effort, but I am not giving up today.

These days will happen. When you are done with the effort - you will know. It won't be something that you work at - there will just be peace around it.


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Originally Posted by PLC
Does anyone ever feel this is a futile effort?
I am currently experiencing total ignoring from H. Remember, he still lives here.

Hi PLC,

Sadly, oh yes....probably too often. I have been ignored now for probably close to a month and a half straight except for the 3 times he decided to loose his mind on me. The ignoring while in the same house used to make me feel sick to my stomach but now I’m doing a much better job (most days) of embracing the full me time and not getting into any conversations with him that will derail every time anyway.

I find for me keeping busy at home or going out keep me sane....so basically GAL as much as I can...as you know.
Originally Posted by PLC
I still love this man and I hope for a reconcilation. Every day, I continue to gal, (I mean he makes it easy, since he ignores me) I know that time is a gift and I need to use it wisely.

Today, I just feel dumb.

PLC

I feel the same way, but some days he/reconciling feels soooo far away. This is something I continue to work on. Getting frustrated with myself, or feeling dumb for knowing the answers but needing to hear it anyway, showing emotion, going over the same thing again and again... I’m trying to stop judging myself and how I feel, or even what I need at certain times. We’ve been blindsided and there is no handbook on this. I’m making a pact to let myself feel what I feel and move on...move on for me right now.

A big help for me finding a little peace of mind was realizing that I don’t have to act on things right away, I don’t have to adhere to his timeline and there’s “future” stuff I don’t need the answer to right now. I can just let things be. This allows me to not run around in my head or in reality out of fear.

Let feelings of defeat wash over you and realize, as awful as it feels, that right now you and H aren’t even playing in the same game.
(((PLC)))

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Thank you Kindly and Valeska,

Today was a little (and I mean little) better.

It’s interesting, with D permanently home (until she gets a full time job, at least) if I run and errand or go anywhere, she tags along as there isn’t a lot to do. When H is home, he asks her where we are going. I find this ironic since he leaves and 9 times out of 10 he doesn’t say a word about where he’s goinyg and when he will be back. So he is ignoring me and mostly her too, but when he’s home and we leave, he wants to know. So weird.

I have (except for that last observation) really tried to not think about what and why he does stuff. This 999th weekend of pandemic will find me finally able to get hair cut and colored and some movies on Netflix, exercise and bbq. If he’s home, whatever. I don’t know if he notices, but I notice I’m taking care of me. That’s all that matters.

Kindly, you are so right, we are not in the same game. This is a competitive game of solitaire!

PLC

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Good Morning PLC

Originally Posted by PLC
Does anyone ever feel this is a futile effort?

Yes, at times.

Feels futile, doesn’t mean it is.

Feelings are real, and fleeting. Let this one flit away, and stop reinforcing it. (((PLC)))

Remember your focus. Your efforts are not futile. Your path and journey are for you. You become. And that is never a futile effort.

D


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Thank you D,

I understand what you are saying, and you are right. Sometimes GAL is an effort.

So this weekend he surprised me by fixing a toilet that had been running, buying and installing a new shower head and cleaning our porch. I know better than to wonder why, but it did throw me for a loop. Today was my IC appt (by phone) and she echoed the rule of not getting distracted by his behavior. (She really is helpful) I realized, last week and the few weeks leading up to this, he has been ignoring me so much, you can read it in my previous threads. I began being short and ignoring him and leaving at weird times just to get out,

This behavior could be a check to see how I react. All I did was say thanks for the shower head. It’s interesting, to see what we discuss here and what we read to see it happen, even in just a small way.

I am continuing my stuff, because honestly, I’m getting tired of his shenanigans. I guess the rope is dropping a little more, because as much as I want my H, I have plans that I am making regardless of he is there or not,

I am still scared for what the future holds, but I am excited too.

PLC

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Good Morning PLC

My goodness it sure is dark at this time now. 6:20am and it’s completely black outside.

Interesting H fixing the toilet, installing a shower head, and cleaning the porch. It could be a check of your reaction, or a display of acts of service, or whatever. He did it because he felt like it. Why? Hard to say, and he might not even know.

Your acknowledgment and affirmation of his actions and efforts was good. Thanking him was perfect.

Is H still joining you for meals sometimes or more back to hiding in his room again? (Just wondering if he still can work the door. smile )

Continue to let go of the rope. It’s nice to see you removing your focus from his tiresome shenanigans.

Originally Posted by PLC
I am still scared for what the future holds, but I am excited too.

Excellent!

Wonderful to be excited for one’s future. Way better than dreading it.

Being a bit scared or worried is fine. I bet you are a lot less scared than a few months ago. A lot less paralyzed, I can see that in your posts - making plans regardless if H is there or not. Good job.

Have a great day PLC.

D


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Hi Dnj,

Funny you that it was dark this am later than it has been. I noticed it too. Fall is on the way.

H is not eating with us. For Labor Day I made burgers. He came in as we sat down to eat. I mentioned burgers and he said he’d have a microwave burrito. I said, “are you sure? Burgers are ready.” He ate one. But not with us. He took the paper towel with the messy burger into the room. (Yes, he does not use dishes)

I will say, before BD2 he would head out on the weekend and bring home donuts or sandwiches. He had not done this since BD2 and on Friday evening when he kept on popping up when D25 and I were speaking about plans saying “what?” I had a feeling he would get them on Saturday, he did.

Last night, he came in from somewhere and I asked if he would get gas for me sometime this week as when I went to get gas at Costco the lines were PACKED. He said he could go then and left and did it. When he came back, I just thanked him.

This morning I checked FB and OW2 changed her profile picture and he already responded with proclamations of love that was reciprocated in kind.

I feel that I have reached out very minimally and I need to stop that now for a bit. It has been five weeks since he asked for a divorce. This is the first bit of action, towards me since then. So whatever he was dealing with he guessed it was ok to acknowledge me. I do not want to get to the point where I expect it like I did before BD2. It was really hard when the second one happened, because I got comfortable.

The rope needs to continue to drop. It’s interesting, I know what I am looking for. Seeing his reactions this weekend has made him a science experiment of sorts. I will continue to GAL. I will tell you later what my IC said. Very interesting, it I have to get to work!

Have a great day!

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Ok, I am back home for lunch.

This is what my therapist said as I was lamenting that I was getting tired of this yet I want to stand:

She said that I need to get out and make plans (GAL) otherwise, regardless of if I want to stand or not, I will get tired of standing because I will be bored if I am doing nothing that is stimulating for me. It makes so much sense as as I mentioned in my post that I have plans I want to make happen. By looking forward, it is helpful to have a focus on them other than what he is or is not doing.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting, AND I noticed when I went to go to work this morning, he washed my car last night when he got gas. A nice gesture, but the car was covered in ash already.

I will be back later after work!

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Your H's expressed Love Language is clearly Acts of Service. It's my belief that people who DO acts of service do them because the love language they want to RECEIVE is Words of Affirmation. Try responding to such acts with praise - don't be afraid to overdo it. "Gee, thank you SO much for washing my car. It's so nice to drive a clean car. You do such a nice job."

If you haven't read The Five Love Languages by Chapman you should. It can be hard to use the love languages when you're trying to be low contact, but there are ways.

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KML, thank you. I do want to acknowledge any little act, but I don’t want to be chatty.

I will look up that book. It might help here. You can understand where I am coming from, it is such a delicate balance.

Interestingly, when I got home just now, I did my usual things when I come home, I went to go to take off my shoes and I realized the door he always has shut was open. Surprisingly he was in there. I began to talk then his phone rang, so I just left. I’m not hanging around to see if he will talk.

I do need to thank for the car wash. That’s it.

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Update-I was able to check out the book online from the library and I will be reading tonight.

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Update and boy, it shows the way they can change on a dime in MLC.

H and I have a large tax bill. We do not have the money because he spent all of his bonuses without me knowing.

At the beginning of the year, I went to speak with him and suggested that bonuses are given to the “house, with 50% set aside for taxes, 25% to the house towards other bills and the balance for him to do whatever he wanted. I offered that because I know deep down he resents earning bonuses and having to give share them when I am able to get the paycheck and pay all bills. Coincidentally or not, the bonuses began at the beginning of the MLC period, and my IC thinks that along with whatever other things threw him into MLC that he came to a realization that money cannot make you happy.

So anyway, today I approach and ask, do you have any money for the taxes? I was met with “no why would I?” On the second bomb drop he mentioned he had a good sized bonus and he would give it directly to bring down our bill. So I went into his work portal and checked, and yep, about three weeks after his D talk he got that bonus. I know it’s gone.

So I was so angry, I went and knocked on the door and went in and said, “well, we have to pay something, this is all I have saved, but we have property taxes and other bills like car insurance. So it will take years to pay, plus next year is coming and we will owe this years.

He suggested us taking second. We have plenty of equity. He said, “I thought that’s what you were going to do” I said, “that’s was a worst case scenario of you don’t get bonuses, but I can look into it tomorrow. I suggest we pay everything off so all there is is car, house and utilities.”

THEN FRIENDS, LISTEN TO THIS: he said, “from now on I’ll just give you the checks right away.” Liar
I responded, do you remember earlier this year, we had this conversation about bonuses? AND HE HAD THE GALL TO SAY, “YES, I REMEMBER I DON’T FORGET ANYTHING. HAHAHA (well, he forgot his vows??)

So, I am not going to push a fight, so I just said, there are things that need to be done here on the house, it would be helpful to have some cash. So I mentioned, I’ll look at loans and he said, “just get a loan that won’t mess everything up on the house.”

It was a weird feeling, we do not fight, I know he lies, but I didn’t get the distinct feeling he was thinking of leaving anytime soon. I was on the edge of saying, I don’t want to have a huge mortgage so we need to discuss further. I will look I to loans, I did ask him if he wanted a second or a refi and he asked for whatever is better for the house. So we will see.

Anyway, any comments about what was good or bad, please let me know. I value all of your input. On long nights with basic NC, this board is so lifesaving.

PLC

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So here is my day:

Spoke to some loan companies, found out that H has a horrible credit score and he has more credit cards than I thought. Made me mad.

Spoke to the accountant. Expressed H has a desire to D. Accountant was shocked and I was mad more then upset telling someone. This surprised me. I have kept this private, so this big step was mostly me telling the accountant how H messed everything up. The accountant also had some friends that dealt with money issues, probably MLC too.

Came home and heard H screaming at someone on the phone, I don’t know what that is about but it’s not me.

Later, D was in speaking with him and I heard her tell him thanks. So I asked what she thanked him for and she said he is buying a trifold mattress because the couch is hurting her back. She originally asked him to switch off between the bedroom and the couch once a month and he said no,so she told him he needed to buy her a bed. (Good for her)

Logically, I would think he would say, “I’m not buying anything, I’m leaving soon so it won’t matter.” This again reinforces MLC with no real plans.

I am in California and the smoke is super bad so this weekend, I am going to go through cabinets and pull out what I don’t want. D can have stuff or I will donate.

Anyway, that’s where I am.

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You need to speak with a lawyer to make sure you won’t be on the hook for any of those credit card debts.

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Thank you KML,

I was thinking the same thing and will look into that next week.

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Good Morning PLC

You are so right. MLCers can change direction in an instant. The way they ping pong about is enough to give one whiplash trying to follow them. smile

It’s not unusual for MLCers to spend money. Some burn through it at an alarming rate. It sounds like H’s new credit cards would be just in his name. As suggested, ensure those are clearly his debt, and not marital debt.

H’s forceful assertion that he remembers about the bonuses, is rather telling that he did forget. Emotionally immature crisis people tend to lash out and blame instead of owning their follies.

There is also some truth in “I don’t forget anything”. Well truth, from his skewed perspective. If one forgets, then one cannot know they forgot, therefore they feel they don’t forget. And, of course, we all know how well MLCer’s face reality. Even the truth about a conversation of bonuses can be ignored. They are that good at rewriting their narrative. Seriously, you couldn’t explain that the sky is blue if H feels it is red. Also, MLCers lie, and manipulate. And they have the attention span and memory of a gnat.

Somewhere within all of that ^^^ is what actually happened. However, you are where you are facing taxes, property tax, car insurance, and so on. It looks like a loan of some type is going to be required to ride this one out.

MLCers are terrible with money. His choice to spend the bonus elsewhere was not discussed and of course you are mad.

Good for you realizing you got madder from actually telling someone (IRL) about H. That is a big step. We do keep this private for a while. It depends on each situation, unfolding events, and the person/people involved for how long this remains held in; eventually it does come out.

That telling is an acknowledgment of the loss. It makes it more emotionally real for you. It’s a step closer to acceptance. And it is a step of grief, specifically anger.

Your feelings are healthy and normal. We all need to get stuff off our chest to move forward. Do remember, feeling are fleeting, let the anger wash over you. It will take what time it takes; it is only temporary.

I think you did fine with you conversation with H. However, you later found out he has more credit cards and a horrible credit score. What do you think you are going to do with that knowledge. Tell him, confront, ignore? My immediate suggestion is to wait. Let your feeling subside a bit. You have bills that require paying, and nothing you do with H is going to matter; the money is gone. Look after this immediate concern and then look at what to do regarding finances and H.

Perhaps you need to transfer out his portion from the account into a separate account he does not have access to. He did say after all that he would just give you the checks right away. Leave him his portion and ensure the household can run properly. If he pushes against something like ensuring household expenditure are covered first, then more legally enforceable options may have to be implemented.

In his world he is a teenager and would use up all equity without really understanding it needs to be paid back. You don’t want to get into the hole. Financial security and protection are important. Luckily, you are a levelheaded gal, who will have no problem securing her future.

Originally Posted by PLC
It was a weird feeling, we do not fight, I know he lies, but I didn’t get the distinct feeling he was thinking of leaving anytime soon. I was on the edge of saying, I don’t want to have a huge mortgage so we need to discuss further. I will look I to loans, I did ask him if he wanted a second or a refi and he asked for whatever is better for the house. So we will see.

You do know H pretty well, even alien H you know albeit to a much lesser degree. It’s ok to reservedly trust your feelings that he is not leaving anytime soon. I suspect you would feel much different if he was more on the cusp of leaving. That being said, do not make important decisions based on feelings, these MLCers can change on a dime. This is more for day to day life, and remaining calm and free of worry about walking on eggshells.

It does appear that H is not wanting to be involved with, or upset about you looking after, the finances. He extends trust to your judgement of what to do, to choose which ever option is better. I find that interesting. Too early to tell what it means, still interesting nonetheless.

Continue forward girl. You are doing well.

D


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Thank you Dnj,

I was just signing on here to say I feel out of sorts after him being helpful last weekend and KNOWING I should not focus on him, and just take care of me.

Of course, this morning and the last couple of days he has been avoidant and I don’t know why I let it bother me. This morning, as I was leaving the house for groceries, he was getting picked up by his friend. I don’t know if the friend saw me, but of course H did not look my way as they drove off.

This being Saturday morning, I have a whole weekend ahead that I need to be busy. Dnj, I will reread your advice a few times. I need some counterpoint to my thoughts.

Thank you.

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Another thing with your questions of what I am going to do with the knowledge of the awful credit and extra cards (all in his name). I have the same concerns of marital debt vs. his debt and paying the monkey to be off my back with IRS and other taxes.

We cannot qualify for a loan unless his bills get paid with the loan. So, that is my conundrum. This is where I need to speak with an atty. At BD2 remember he said he wants to keep me in the house and how much do I need monthly. Well, if we refi, a portion of that loan is his. Plus what guarantee do I have with an MLCer that he won’t touch the cards?

One thing that I KNOW he has not thought of, him buying a condo will not happen with his credit. I feel like a mom telling him, H if we get this loan we are paying off your debt. I need to know I can trust (HA!) you to not acquire anymore and after six months to a year, credit will be better. I also want in writing that $XX was paid off from the loan and that that will play into any D agreement about my due funds.

I know if I am talking about that I am bringing up R talk and I don’t want to do that either. SOS

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Dnj,

You are bringing up a strong point about H trusting me with the finances. This was always how our marriage was, he would bring home his pay and I would pay our bills.

He obviously hid funds from me, but until this period, we have always had what was needed to pay any bills. I mean it wasn’t a lot of extra but we paid our bills.

As a logical person (I know he has none now) if I was planning on leaving, I would not want to trust him with the money. Last summer when he was “engaged” to OW1, I took all the funds out of our savings and put it in my name only. I pull from there as needed, but I do not need the surprise that the money is gone when I need it. I left a tiny balance of a few hundred dollars in the joint account, but here we are a year later and if he has gone to the joint account and seen it is almost empty, he has not said anything so I think he hasn’t.

So either that is him thinking he can just have his bonuses and leave the rest to the home accounts, but again, as much as I appreciate that it is still the status quo shows me that he is partially in two worlds and isn’t all the way in with his extra life. I don’t know why that is, it just is. We all know it can change, but it is confusing.

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Hey

I dont often venture to mlc board, however i can tell you what happened with our finance.

March-july- h just transferred his wages to me. August, only to cover all the bills and spent over a 1.5 k in a month on entertaining ow from our joint account. My point is as things move forward or back and forth things will change. In the end i was pleased tha we Separated our finance and Its for the best for both him and me tbh. I would t trust him with anything if in honest, as he will change his mind constantly. At the moment, h pays mortgage and bills, the rest is his, i pay food and kids stuff. He doesnt live at the house, in fact i have no idea where he lives.

In terms of large purchases, since march we have bought a trampoline for the garden, new furniture for my sons room and he suggested just yesterday getting a table for s6. So noone really knows whats going through his head!

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No way would I be getting a second on the house to fund his irresponsible behavior with money while he’s threatening divorce!!!

Why was there such a large tax bill? Is he self employed and not making the correct quarterly estimated payments? What did he spend the bonus on? What’s he been spending the credit cards on?

This degree of financial dysfunction usually suggests one of a few things:
1) Living beyond your means. (Some men hide this by building up credit card debt while maintaining the illusion that he’s bringing in enough income)
2) Spending on addictions like drugs, gambling, porn, or mistresses. Too many here have discovered too late that a large chunk of income was going to these things.

I suggest you make the financial choices that are best for you if you divorce. That may or may not happen but you need to protect yourself if it does. Try to find some way to begin paying the taxes without refinancing the house if you can. Take over the finances or at least insist on sitting down for a monthly budget meeting. You can present it as necessary to clean up the tax debt before you can afford to divorce. Discuss anyplace you can tighten the budget.

Can either of you pick up a small side hustle to bring in more money? Short-term pain to pay down the tax debt could pay off big time in the future. (Don’t start paying down his credit cards until you find out how much you are responsible for).

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KML-

I think the money was spent on women and gambling. But mostly his racing hobby.

I was aware of some money going to racing, but as of last year when he was out of the country he did not and has not raced this specific car.

Regardless, I think he is mirroring what his dad did, he worked and that money went to the family. He got a second profitable job and that went to him and his hobbies. Needless to say H’s parents are now divorced.

I know it bothered H that his dad did that, but here he is doing the same. He did not have enough taxes taken out so we owe.

It’s just a mess, our marriage, our finances, everything.

You said you wouldn’t get a second when he is threatening divorce, and there we are. Is he going to follow through? Is he going to come back to the marriage? I have to go on that I am standing but this may not be the outcome I want.

I think I will sit with this information a bit. Next week, I will let him know we do not qualify because of his credit. Let’s see if he has a plan B. I would suggest he sell some racing equipment but we all know a mlcer won’t want that. Or maybe he will, I can suggest selling so we can pay off taxes and his bills then He can move out. Boy, that would probably confuse him.

I’m just tired.

PLC

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Good Morning PLC

I was going to suggest selling some of his stuff. Great minds think a like... smile Lol

I am guessing you previously have filed taxes jointly and therefore feel this non-remittance of income tax is a joint bill. That probably is legally true, since you are still together. However, the income was his, and the shortage was due to not enough being withdrawn at source. He spent it. He needs to find a way to cover it.

From what you’ve said, it sound like a smaller amount. You seem confident that a loan would be paid off in 6 to 12 months. For such an amount, leave the mortgage as is.

With H’s poor credit rating, a joint loan may not be an option. A loan in just H’s name is definitely not going to happen by the sounds of things. And a personal loan in just your name is not desirable. Your house mortgage is already an arrangement and probably could be modified, but this is not desired. Short term lending institutions are available and charge enormous interest, again not desirable.

Tightening discretionary expenses and then liquidating some of H’s hobby equipment looks to be the best of the available choices. Selling that to H might be difficult. However, don’t sink your ship before you even put it in the water. How one approaches something does affect its outcome. When reasonably discussing presenting this to H, have no expectations of him not going along with this plan. This is where we are, and this is what we need to do - is what you present. H has a bit of faith in your financial abilities, showcase them that way.

Btw, notice you are presenting this, not discussing it. MLCers are moody entitled teenagers, treat them that way when you need something done. And it is presenting, not telling or directing either.

Originally Posted by PLC
It’s just a mess, our marriage, our finances, everything.

You said you wouldn’t get a second when he is threatening divorce, and there we are. Is he going to follow through? Is he going to come back to the marriage? I have to go on that I am standing but this may not be the outcome I want.

MLC is a mess.

Keep the business side separate from the emotional, healing, standing side. I know they get tangled at times, don’t let one bleed into the other and stain your emotions. Finances and business is the realm of intellect, do what you need to do.

As I said, you’re levelheaded. You’ll do fine.

D


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Thank you Dnj,

I still today have so much anger. I don’t know if it was the money that tipped me over, or if it is just time, (16 months) or if I am just ready to drop the rope whole heartedly.

I realize it felt so good to tell someone of H’s goal for a D, although I was met with a “I am so sorry you are dealing with things” that made me sad for a moment, but more of feeling of extreme anger. I am considering telling others. I don’t feel like crying, I feel more anger at how this 57 yo man would blow up his and our lives.

This weekend, I GALed as best I could with smoke air and Covid restrictions. I don’t know what he did or where he is right now. Our D25 and I ordered dinner and we didn’t even ask if he wanted any, I didn’t feel awkward not asking either.

I have some consultations this week to see what I am liable for and H and I will have a discussion. My heart wants to stand, but right now as he is in the middle of this second OW I am just running out of steam and THAT is what makes me sad.

I look forward to your reply.

PLC

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My anger is pushing me to tell my family.

This is huge. For 16 months I have chosen to keep them in the dark. Quarantine rules have made it easy for us to avoid them and he chose to spend Christmas and a family birthday as a “normal” routine event.

I feel that his behavior on social media may cause someone I care about to see him and I don’t want them to worry about me.

I am thinking of texting and just telling the facts:

H said he doesn’t want to be married, I believe this is MLC and at this time I would like to work it through. I am willing to wait a while. This has not been a short situation, it has been going on over a year. I do not want to speak about it. I will let you know when I do. Please do not confront him.

I know my family loves me and H and I know this will upset them, I just am not prepared to speak about it. (Look, it took me this long just to tell the accountant!) I know they will be concerned, but I am the type of person that can not handle people being sad, especially for me.

Anyway, if you have any comments please let me know.

PLC

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Hello PLC

Your anger is a stage of grief. Like you said, you’re not sad – you’re mad!

I get it. A 57 year old man went and unilaterally decided to blow up, not just his life, but yours too. There is plenty of collateral damage when bomb drop happens.

Feeling are fleeting. Your anger is real. It is normal. It is proper. It is justified. And it is temporary!!!

Let your emotions wash over you.

You need to work through this anger and release it. Safely. And not at H; you have worked hard and accomplished much, don’t want to undo things. smile

Sweating the anger out is a good way. A brisk walk, yard work, get a punching bag, go to the gym, and so on.

Yes, anger does push us. Do not make decisions based upon emotions – especially temporary anger. Use your anger to propel you towards something, like cleaning the garage or digging the garden, something not involving H.

This lets your subconscious mind work through this, and not reinforce your emotions. It happens best, when you aren’t actually consciously working at it. Like how answers present themselves when you are at peace. It does happen, and I know it doesn’t feel that way, which is kind of the point. Such is the counterintuitive journey.

Now, telling others about your situation is separate from your anger. You are tying the two together, and they need not be. And shouldn’t be.

Do not send a text! If/when you are going to tell them, use the phone. You say, and I can see, that right now you do not want to talk about it with them – so don’t. If they find something on social media, deal with it then. You don’t need to borrow trouble.

You will know when you are ready to talk about this. I suspect it will be sooner than you realize. This anger is a step towards acceptance, emotional understanding. Have faith, this is a good and healthy thing. (((PLC)))

Get in your intellectual “car” and think about what you would tell your family. What you want them to know. What support you would like from them. And so on. Think and proact, not feel and react.

Take some time to work through the anger; it will take as long as it takes. Realize its part of your healing. It’s healthy. It’s ok.

Share and vent here. You are among friends who understand.

D


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Dnj,

Thank you. I wrote a text to send and then couldn’t. I looked here and see your response. It is like how in therapy, they say write everything down to release it. I realize I was wanting to tell family out of anger toward H. This definitely is not ideal.

I will save the contents of the message and use a variation when I speak with them.

I am doing some indoor cycling after work when I get home. I always work up a sweat when I do.

I know I mentioned last night and not asking if he wanted any dinner that D and I were getting. When he came home from idk, I was in my room with the door closed. He went into his room and left the door open for a long time (usually shut right away). I never engaged.

This is different, this anger. I thought I was mad, before. Now I realize it was only a taste. As he is in full blown mlc, I am full blown angry. It feels good. I will not take it out on him, but NC is ok, and I am embracing it.

PLC

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Here's the problem - if you tell them and then you reconcile, they will never forget it. You might forgive him but they won't.

I would suggest you only tell them if A) he's moving out, B) they see something online and come to you, C) you are ready to divorce or D) you need the support of having someone in your family to talk to.

My ex cheated on me and I DB'd our way through that episode - I didn't tell my family because I KNEW my mom wouldn't ever forgive him. We had several more good years until he finally went off in a blaze of midlife crisis when he turned 50 - and no, my mom never forgave him that. She was madder even than I was. After all, he had wounded HER child and grandchildren and you know how mama bears are!

You don't have to lie if someone asks you (and I wouldn't). You don't have to ask your daughter to lie. But I wouldn't proactively share unless you feel you need their support.

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KML,

Thank you. H was always well respected by friends and family alike. He was someone to look up to.

I really do not want to add this to complicated lives. My mother is early stage dementia and my dad is her caregiver at this time. As a parent, I know he would worry. I know I am ok. Angry, (as mentioned above) but anger is helping right now.

I think my sister would be the one that would not forget. She is the most kindest person, but full on mama bear. Even though I am older, it is just her personality.

This board, my therapist has been enough support. I am trying not to talk to D25 about it as I don’t want to put her in the middle.

PLC

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Journaling-

As mentioned in previous posts, I’m feeling anger now. It has taken a long time, but it is here. H has always been home, unless he traveled, but usually is home at night.

I came home from work after stopping at the store on the way home. I bought dog food. He noticed and commented that I bought it. I just said yes and went on with putting it away.

After a bit, I began making dinner, he came in the kitchen asking if some towels he had mixed up with sheets were kitchen towels or rags. I responded. He left, then later came in again. I have not looked at his face all of these times and my responses are short and I am not speaking first. This would usually be hard for me, but as I mentioned, I’m angry.

My D25 and I ate dinner, I never offered a plate to him.D is studying so I cleaned the kitchen and told her goodnight and came in here and closed the door, his light was still on with the door open. After I came in here, I heard him go into the kitchen and I heard the microwave. Oh well, I’m tired of being nice when he is doing this to us.

Is this just me being petty? Or is it ok to live in the anger a bit. I am not confronting him, but idk why I should be so friendly when he has wrecked this married life. I can change my mind tomorrow, I could say, PLC, be nice. I can see an attorney and begin proceedings. Both are possible. I want to stand, but do I have to stand nicely?

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Hello PLC

Kind and cordial.

Compassionate and indifferent.

Anger is just a stage. It is real. And it does pass.

We all need a certain level of understanding to let go, to move forward.

Consider, a while ago you were not angry. H hasn’t really changed his behaviours. So why all the anger? It’s a step towards acceptance. What were you not “accepting” before? What were you denying? You are seeing something and you’re righteously mad.

Denial protects us until we can process more emotions from our situation. As our fog lifts, we see more, feel more, get angry, bargain, become depressed, and final accept. More and more pieces of our situations reveal themselves and we repeat; each cycle getting easier.

What were you denying? Well that’s the trick. You don’t know, you were in denial. Patience, it will reveal itself as you progress. Have faith in the process. It does work! You will heal. You can emerge from this, the best version of yourself, strong, secure, forgiving, happy.

Focus on you and daughter. Treat H as a roommate. Be cordial. Detached and indifferent. Look to your beliefs, not your emotions.

Originally Posted by PLC
Is this just me being petty? Or is it ok to live in the anger a bit.

Of course you can live in the anger a bit. You need to work through it, so you have to live it. Just don’t let it consume you. You do control you, don’t forget.

Originally Posted by PLC
I want to stand, but do I have to stand nicely?

You can do whatever you want. It’s your choice. Your benefits and your consequences.

My advice: Kind and cordial, begets far less regrets. So yes, stand nicely. And by the way, that advice is really for you, much more than for H.

Kind and cordial is hard to do when you are seeing red. Shoot for pleasant indifference when dealing with H. You can go punch the stuffing out of a punching bag after.

I imagine this all feels rather surprising. Suddenly such anger. It’s ok, perfectly normal. It shall pass, in time.

D


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Thanks Dnj,

Is the acceptance that I will find, acceptance of this situation, the outcome of divorce or?

I thought those were possibilities I have been fighting this whole time. It is surprising.

I will work on being cordial and kind. He’s just so annoying.

Roommate, roommate, roommate. Ugh.

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When I got to acceptance, my M was really over and XH was now M to OW
it was about 2.5 from bomb

I think you will not know what your xh will do until it is done so acceptance is of the situation, as it is now

Over time, we work toward full acceptance of the final outcome
Going through all the stages and you have seen yourself traveling to acceptance
denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance
We may bounce in and out of these in no specific order
let the process happen..this is our goal

and continue to be kind and cordial, gal. make your best life, hobbies, exercise, friends( as best as for this covid situation)
and trust in the best and highest outcome and let go


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Thank you Peacetoday,

I do bounce around with my thoughts.

This weekend during my anger phase, H and OW2 had a dust up on social media and they weren’t friends for a couple of days. When this has happened before, I would tip toe around hoping he’d notice I was there waiting and he’d see the light and snap out of it.

We all know that is not how mlc works. This time, I GALed heavy duty, the anger helped me with that. By the end of the weekend they were friends again. So I did not have that twinge of disappointment that I would have in other times.

I will continue to work on my path.

Thank you,

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Acceptance that you cannot control what he does or what path he takes. You can only control YOUR behaviors and YOUR choices. You can CHOOSE to plan an interesting, exciting, fulfilling life for yourself and your H can either decide to come along for the ride, or he will miss out - but you will be living your best life.

As for dealing with him in the home - as long as you're angry or negative he won't be interested in reconciling - why would he? MLCers worry that they won't be forgiven for their transgressions anyway. Put on a happy face, enjoy your life, be a little mysterious, let him wonder what you're doing and see you having a good time that he might want to join.

I know this is a bit harder in this time of pandemic, but do the best you can with it. If he still leaves - well, you're further along the path to your new life. If he reconciles - well, you still have an interesting new life for yourself, one that he can join in.

Now, on the other hand, if you're truly done with him (by the time my ex finally left, I knew I wouldn't take him back no matter what, that I could never trust him again, it was a three strikes and you're out kind of thing) then quietly plan for your divorce and getting into the best financial position you can for that.

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BTW - how closely are you watching the money situation? You might need to file just to protect yourself financially. Your H has a history of gambling, has a young OW in another country who has probably been milking him for money, your marital assets may have been flying out the door. Try to get copies of all bank and credit card statements so you can see what he has been up to. If he's been spending money on OW, you are entitled to get some of that money back in a divorce.

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Hi kml,

Thank you for your replies. I really need to remember to be cordial when dealing with him.

As for the financial aspects, as of now, I am getting all of his money. As of now. I also am seeing this week what I could be dealing with and separating what is needed for my protection.

Thank youPLC

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Journaling,

When we were kids, didn’t we all love candy? Didn’t we all wish we could eat candy for every meal?

Well, tonight H came home with a whole bunch of full size candy bars and m & m’s. This is not Halloween stash. This is from the man who tells me he is intermittent fasting and not eating after a certain time. He right now won’t eat what I prepare, but will heat up a frozen burrito at 10:00pm because he’s hungry and won’t touch my leftovers.

I know, again this the child MLCer. He is just so confusing! I am going to go make my normal dinner of a nice salad. No candy.

PLC

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Hello PLC

Yes, you will find acceptance, peace, with your situation and whatever the outcome may be. And much much more.

Peace, understanding, empathy, compassion, forgiveness, joy, happiness. Concepts and ideals so far from one’s view after bomb drop. You will find your way to them.

This is an incredible journey we LBS are thrust upon. No one would ever ask for this, yet most everyone who has travelled this road would not give up their journey. It is that much a blessing!

D


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Journaling,
A nice Saturday, not as much smoke and it is not too hot.

I did a deep clean of the kitchen and am continuing to clean other rooms today. I have some items that will be packed away for our D25 for her use when she gets to move out. I am also sorting papers to purge and others to file.

He woke up today and began to clean out the bedroom! He had stored stuff in there instead of putting it away for at least a year, a bicycle, skateboard, magazines clothes etc. he is putting it all in the garage. I don’t know why and I don’t care. I’m happy.

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PLC, could you come over here and deep clean my kitchen and purge all my papers -- esp all the divorce papers -- when you finish up at your place? I'll cook dinner!

: )


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Heck yes Gerda!

I find when I have too much in life to deal with purging items helps me gain a little control. Now it’s control over “stuff” but a clean room helps me see clearer. (Plus who doesn’t like a clean room?)

Today, H continues with cleaning. He was outside hosing off the lawn when I left. He used to say that was his meditation time. I doubt he is that deep today, but I do appreciate that he is out of the cave and actually walking around us.

Just tell me what to bring for dinner and I will be there!

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H just came in and asked if I needed gas in my car????

MLC continues to confuse...

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Journaling-

So H is still living in D25's bedroom. As far as I can tell, he and OW2 are still together.

He still leaves at different times and does not tell anyone where he is going or when he may return at least 80% of the time.

This is where the journaling is regarding something different:

I looked back at our marriage and we did not have any screaming arguments. We still have not had any. During our marriage, H would have a surge of anger but he would explode and that would be it. I would avoid.

It seems that that is the pace for this MLC. No conflict. He is just coasting in and out.

I have had in the last week or so, glimpses of the old H; willing to get gas, get the car washed, cleaning up the room he's in. I also, after the second BD in July, stopped doing any laundry of his and the hamper was packed to the top with his stuff. He would wash what he needed and keep the hamper full of other items he wasn't wearing. Today, he began doing laundry from the hamper. This past weekend, i mentioned a few posts prior, he emptied all of the clutter out of the bedroom and made it more livable.

Sometimes I wonder, what if he is doing this because he has a plan to leave and realizes he needs to make less of a mess? Like, " I am leaving her let's not leave more of a mess." Then to counterpoint, I wonder if he is cleaning up because he wants to clean things up for me to eventually return, yet I know OW is around.

I know that I need to focus on me, and I am usually good at that, but sometimes I wonder if he has an inkling about anything about this sitch. He will speak with me, ask follow up questions next time we cross paths.

IT is frustrating.

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Oh PLC. It is so, so frustrating. WTF is wrong with him?

I'm sorry, I know I'm not living this exemplar but when I read your last post all I could think of was this fantasy of walking away from it all. Just ditching all his crap and not worrying about his plan or whatever. Just getting rid of him and his BS in your life and moving on, clean and fresh and unpolluted by all the BS he has brought down on your life. No more parsing of the random kindness or gas filling or cleaning up. Just.... you. and whatever you want and need.

xoxo M thinking of you.


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Hi May,

Thank you. This is frustrating and as my daughter would say, “ SO annoying”.

I have really been treating him as a roommate, I am standing. When I GAL, I will see a little reaction, I know it’s working, it’s just not an overt reaction. Obviously, this is not a quick fix, but I can’t GAL all day everyday when I have a job and responsibilities.

I think about how my life would be with a divorce, how the house would be and even today I was thinking, when I come home for lunch sometimes he’s there. Would I come home and not wonder if he’s going to be there or would I even wonder what he was doing. It’s weird.

I miss the good times as we all do, I appreciate he’s not a screaming jerk, but it makes it even harder BECAUSE he is nice enough.

Thank you!

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Good Morning PLC

Your H’s behaviour is new, yes? He before would not just leave 80% of the time without telling anyone where he was going or what he was doing, right?

He is emotionally troubled. Lost. Confused. Desperate. In crisis.

It is difficult to realize the irrationality driving his behaviour and decisions. Almost everything he does is based upon how he feels.

Originally Posted by PLC
I looked back at our marriage and we did not have any screaming arguments. We still have not had any. During our marriage, H would have a surge of anger but he would explode and that would be it. I would avoid.

This may be something to consider changing if (hopefully when) H turns back. A new R will be crafted, and you have many more tools within your toolbox now. This of course is a long ways off; be patient.

Originally Posted by PLC
It seems that that is the pace for this MLC. No conflict. He is just coasting in and out.

Some MLCers burn white hot and are so very angry, others coast along. It’s ok. One needs to be calm to hear their inner voice(s). Angry MLCers, those screaming jerks, don’t have as much opportunity to hear. Let’s hope H is listening during these moments of clarity.

Originally Posted by PLC
I wonder if he has an inkling about anything about this sitch. He will speak with me, ask follow up questions next time we cross paths.

They do realize their lives, their mess, when they are calm and not running. H is showing some calmness, some moments of clarity. Showing a bit of his old self. It’s very important you do not crush him. Demanded answers or explanations or so forth, will have that timid scared squirrel running in the opposite direction.

This is a long road! Be patient and then dig for more. Remember this is a marathon.

H is still very much in two worlds. Very much confused. He will be desperate to find a blame for all this, you don’t want to make that you. Time and space, roommate, GAL, all allow the MLCer to see that the LBS is not the source of their torment.

Note: MLCer’s look for a blame, not a reason for their pain. LBS Look for reason. Seeing accurately helps when living/dealing with an irrational person. You cannot reason with H, not yet.

Originally Posted by PLC
I have really been treating him as a roommate, I am standing. When I GAL, I will see a little reaction, I know it’s working, it’s just not an overt reaction.

Good. Continue, treat him as a roommate.

A live-in MLCer is difficult, for they are there. However, one can see the MLCer’s behaviour and they can see your light shinning. Everything has a positive and negative to it.

You are doing very well.

D


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HI

Its hard to read between the lines of a mlcer

After my XH moved out there were a lot of mixed messages
He would talk, He would fix stuff around the house, He would bring stuff over that I needed-
He took the kids a lot at first, In fact it seemed like he was more present than while he lived here after Bomb
then he would disappear, not show up, be shut down ect....

You are holding steady and working on you
doing great taking care of yourself and dealing with a very painful situation

Truth is you will not know the final outcome until enough time has passed
Thats the hard part
Patience, waiting, uncertainty and then more patience

I have heard that A MLCer at home may have a better chance of reconciliation
hang in there!


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Thank you Dnj and Peacetoday,

You both raise good points.

Dnj, when he returned last year after being away from work, he never said anything to me about where and when he would return. It showed up a little then faded out and now, it seems to be a bit more.

If he comes home and I am visible I will say hi or look at him to see if he says hi. (He does). If he comes home and I am not home yet or if he comes home and I am busy, I do not make an effort to say hello. If the door is closed I leave him alone.

I mentioned before, I can cook. Well, with the weather being so hot of late, I have been making simple salads and light items. He doesn't eat anything. He is back to eating alone. I am not letting it effect me anymore, but I just think it is dumb.

The one thing that stands out is before when he was in a room and I would make a little chit chat convo, he would respond monotone one word answers. Now he responds with further questions or like above, follows up like he has been thinking about it later when he sees me.

Yet OW is around, and he has not said one word about our relationship. Maybe he just thinks he has told me he wants a D, and he thinks he's got no reason to not be cordial as he has let his intentions be known. I know, this is where I GAL and work on me.

Have a great day!

PLC

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Weekends are so long.

I do not work Fridays in the office, I work from home and will do housework, also. On Thursday afternoons I am so ready for the weekend. Then I just do nothing.

I am not comfortable doing a bunch of socializing with covid, and I am very happy to read, catch up on the phone with friends and family and do grocery shopping. But that doesn’t take all weekend.

On Friday, H continued his home improvements by replacing a toilet seat. I thanked him.

Yesterday I saw him for one brief second after he came home from walking with friends. Later I left and browsed a bookstore for a couple of hours, came home and ate dinner.

I am very grateful that I do not have a “mean, volatile” man living here. But I will tell you, I can struggle with someone who is my “roommate” that may see or not see periodically. I don’t think he has anywhere to go since OW is out of the country. He’s pleasant enough and that makes it confusing. I try not to wonder what he is doing, but weekends hurt. It is so beautiful today I would have loved to taken a drive WITH him just to see things. D25 was working and I honestly just wanted to lie in bed all day. It seemed like an effort to get moving. He doesn’t see that though, I am busy when he’s around.

Instead, he has been in the room all day and I will have dinner with D25 later.

I ask my IC if he wants to be divorced why does he not do anything and she reminds me he is not logical in MLC. I certainly am not going to fulfill his request. So I don’t know if it is a waiting game and he figures he told me twice so it’s done, or if 180’s are having any effect.

I do see some action, when I do not see or speak to him, he seems to touch base but seeking me out in a vague way, just to say hi as he walks by or ask about the pets. But goodness, here we are almost 17 months in, it is a MARATHON.

PLC

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Originally Posted by PLC
But goodness, here we are almost 17 months in, it is a MARATHON.

PLC


My H's first BD was the fall of 2013. He filed for divorce in summer of 2018. You have to adjust your brain to a much longer time span for your marathon.

What did you love to do before H? Did you always want to try writing poetry? Taking up hiking? Can you do some volunteer work? Permaculture garden in your front yard? Mentor a child who is living in poverty?

Your life with H is over. Don't wait for him. Just be pleasantly surprised if he shows up in your wonderful new life and you still want him back.

It takes a long time to find yourself and to find a new way of seeing life. It will happen. Hugs.


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Hi Gerda,

One thing that is a constant is that I want to travel. I have vacations planned out and as soon as it is easier to travel, I am taking off.

Last night, I was thinking of your response, and I have always wanted to immerse myself in another language. I think that is next on the agenda.

A question, I see you have been on the boards a while, I need to familiarize myself with your sitch, but did your H stay at home those five years and was there any time he was not MLC in behavior?

Thank you for your response,

PLC

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I know I need to focus on me, and for the most part I have been doing that. It is easy in the sense that H, although the lives here, ignores me for the most part.

H has always been a clean freak. With the MLC he focused on fantasy land and although he has put extreme effort in his looks, he had left laundry for months to do. He only washed what he needed to wear. A couple of weeks ago I mentioned he cleaned out the bedroom he’s living in and today decided to wash the bedding.

Why does this give me anxiety? Is he near the surface and sees the mess? Does he think to clean up to clear out?

Every time he’s done this nothing has happened, so can anyone explain?

I literally can maneuver all day with just me and when I see this progress on clean up I throws me. Help.

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Hello PLC

Learning another language is an excellent idea. Good for you!



Originally Posted by PLC
A couple of weeks ago I mentioned he cleaned out the bedroom he’s living in and today decided to wash the bedding.

Why does this give me anxiety? Is he near the surface and sees the mess? Does he think to clean up to clear out?

It is hard to figure out why MLCers do what they do. H is cleaning because he feels like it. He went months without doing the laundry. It means nothing. They are in crisis. Time has little meaning to an emotionally trouble person.

They don’t care, are indifferent to almost everything from their old lives. Got to remember their emotions are cranked up to eleven, they can’t handle anything else.

Meals, laundry, whatever - there is always fast food somewhere, and they can just throw on a shirt or buy new. It’s strange behaviour from who they once were. H was a clean freak. Now, not so much.

Perhaps, he is having some moments of clarity and felt like having clean clothes and sheets. It’s a single data point for now. Longer term behaviours speak louder. Still, a good sign, for it is better than living like a teenager.

Is he cleaning because he is thinking of clearing out? If H was clearing out, having clean sheets would probably not be his top priority.

On to the important part - you. Why does this give you anxiety?

Fear.

H’s behaviour changed, he washed his clothes, cleaned his room, did his bedding. This is not his normal, and you therefore notice it and react. It’s ok, and quite normal to do that. We get used to their sullen hidden behaviour, and different is seen as “oh no, something is happening and it probably isn’t good”.

You get thrown for a loop because you imagine a poor outcome. Don’t worry, these reactions will pass.

H’s sudden cleaning triggered a fear within you. It’s not the cleaning, it’s the change of his norm, and the somewhat return to his clean-freak self, that triggered your worry over a possible future event.

Consider:

What is the future event?

What was the trigger?

What is the irrational tie between the two?

Understand that, and you understand your fear. That rationalizes your irrational response and lessens its power and hold upon you.

Note, irrational means not logical. It’s the emotional part of us, not the controlled logic and reason part. We utilize our rational self to find understanding into our emotional self.

Fear not, you’re doing fine my friend.

D


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Oh Dnj,

You always have such good insight.

Future event: Moves out

Trigger: I think I am so used to him being in LA LA land that when he does anything out of it and still does not speak to me except little grunts (like a teen) I assume, he’s out of MLC, back to former self, but is still loyal to the OW. I think I can rationalize her being there, when he is obviously acting like a teen.

Irrational tie- hmm, I am always a good one for jumping to the worst case scenario, and so I think just being my anxious self is irrational.

If I rationally really think this out, again, it doesn’t matter what he is doing, so I need to continue to work on me. Him deciding to have clean sheets or a clean room is good, but I guess it also can show that I am not going to ask him to clean up. If this was a battle of the wills on if I would break and do anything, I won, haha.

Thank you for the kind words.

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Good Morning,

So this weekend, D25 is on a mini vacation with a good friend of hers for the weekend. This is the first time since she has come home at the beginning of August that she has left me alone with H in the house.

His behavior is nothing different. He leaves in the morning and we have minimal words.

I have continued my GAL.

I know I have mentioned that he won't eat what I cook or with me and actually D25 either for that matter. He seems to be on some sort of weight loss kick as he says he doesn't want to eat after a certain time. I bring this up, because he attempts this, but yesterday he brought home a bunch of pastries. I am not going to eat them. D25 is not home. Last night, the dogs needed out and when I got up to let them out, he was in the kitchen stuffing his face with coffee cake. This was at 1:00am. I don't comment to him but we did acknowledge each other.

I just think that this is a prime example of him not knowing what he wants.

Late afternoon, he left to eat, I assume. I left about an hour later and was gone an hour running errands and picking up dinner. I returned around 6:30 and he was already in the bedroom. So no wonder he was hungry.

Anyway, I just wanted to weigh in. (no pun intended) I have some things planned before it gets too hot. I hope you all can enjoy this weekend.

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Good Morning PLC

I have things also planned, but before it gets to cold. smile

Good answers to the questions regarding fear. Breaking it down into its constituent parts, and examine each, rationalizes them.

Originally Posted by PLC
Future event: Moves out

The future event is something that hasn’t happened yet. We imagine it.

Imagination is the first step in creation. An imagined reality still leads to real emotions, a normal and proper reaction by the way. Your feelings regarding him moving out are good. Dispelling fear is not about not feeling, it’s about accepting one’s feelings.

Originally Posted by PLC
Trigger: I think I am so used to him being in LA LA land that when he does anything out of it and still does not speak to me except little grunts (like a teen) I assume, he’s out of MLC, back to former self, but is still loyal to the OW. I think I can rationalize her being there, when he is obviously acting like a teen.

The trigger, in my opinion, is less than what you’ve mentioned. A lot of what you stated is actually the irrational tie.

A trigger is an action, a thought, a place, a smell, etc. that starts a cascade of emotions which bring forth the imagined future event and all the fearful outcome.

The trigger is simply H behaving “out of the ordinary”. As I suggested, this is not about H cleaning. It’s not about H losing weight, or eating fast food, or hiding in his room. It’s all of those behaviours, and none of them. Change your definition of “out of the ordinary” and this particular trigger won’t happen as often.

Originally Posted by PLC
Irrational tie- hmm, I am always a good one for jumping to the worst case scenario, and so I think just being my anxious self is irrational.

The irrational tie is harder to see and follow its path. By its very nature, being irrational and based on emotions, it is somewhat hidden from our logical side. Jumping to the worst case scenario is very common and a huge driver to our fears.

The tie between trigger and future event, doesn’t have to make sense - in fact it won’t. Once it does make sense, well it’s no longer irrational and fear is abated.

One can see and understand their future feared event and the trigger pretty well. In this case H moving out, divorcing, leaving, etc. has feelings associated with it. Interestingly, we only fear things that haven’t happened yet. If H moved out, you would not fear that anymore. It would become “fact”, a problem, a concern, something you now deal with, rationally.

Understand our fear is about something not actually happening; and once it does happen, there is nothing left to fear. I find that quite interesting, and use that rationalization to delve into the irrational to find the fear and the paralyzing affect it has.

The trigger, H behaving differently, activates the tie to your imagination. Uncoupling trigger and future event is similar to detachment. See things accurately and clearly for what they are. Logic and reason, mental assertiveness, that sharp sword of your’s, are very useful tools.

All fear is based upon us getting hurt. Deep down, it is about our own pain, our hurting. Me fearing for my children, a car accident, a bar fight, an assault upon a young girl, etc. all imagined and all about me. The hurt I would feel.

Remember, we are talking about fear, not empathy. Yes, we would, and do, feel when others get hurt or bad things happen. That is a good thing, we are not psychotic, of course we feel. It is the fact that living fearfully does not affect, nor prevent, an outcome - so why fear it?

In fact, the fearful existence prevents examining or discussing these possibilities. One fearfully looks away and lives with the silent lurking fear. Fearlessness allows one to take action. To look upon these possibilities, rationally, to even give probability to them, and therefore take preventive measures. Fear has a large component of denial with it, and one doesn’t act when in denial.

H behaving differently triggers your imagined reality which brings forth your feeling of hurt. These feelings are true, are real, you feeling them, that anxiety. And they are based upon something that hasn’t even happened.

Following that irrational path is convoluted and very individual. Each of us has our own hurts, past, upbringing, coping, and therefore emotional ties to discover.

One of my irrational ties/fear was I would never kiss or hug another woman again. A few, hopefully helpful insights here from my inner delving:

At three years past BD, yes I have not kissed nor hugged another woman. My imagined future became reality, and it is no big deal.

This is also my choice. Another thing we learn; no one else controls your life, you do! The perceived loss of control is also a driver for one’s fear. I choose to remain celibate, and choice pushes back fear.

And fear, like depression, is usually expressed using negatives and absolutes - “never kiss or hug another woman again”. Well, I know this is not true. I can change that, when I choose too.

Originally Posted by PLC
If I rationally really think this out, again, it doesn’t matter what he is doing, so I need to continue to work on me.

Yes.

You are doing very well.

Live in the light.

D


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As always Dnj, you have such great thoughts.

You're so right, my fear is a possible future event. It has not happened.

A different future event is he stays in the home and he wants to work towards a reconciliation. I always go to the worst case scenario.

Also, "Out of the ordinary behavior" BINGO. I have grown so used to him behaving in a certain way over the last almost year and a half, that it is normal now. Out of the ordinary puts me on high alert. But IF he did say he was moving out, I also know that there is nothing I can do to change that, either.

When I calmly think of these things, I usually circle back to the fact that I am so much further ahead, some of my worst fears have happened, I am still here and I am learning to GAL on my own.

Thank you again, for your wise words.

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Journaling-

Tuesdays I have my standing IC appt. My IC has heard plenty about my situation and is totally standing alone with my as I stand for my marriage.

Here's the thing, I have not needed to really speak to her the last couple of weeks. Nothing has changed at home, which is good it has not gotten worse it is just the same.

Don't get me wrong, I am continuing to GAL and I am addressing any conversation with him as cordial as I can be and really, he is doing the same with me.

Can one just need a break from talking about it?

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Quote
Can one just need a break from talking about it?

Of course you can! A break from thinking about it too!

When my ex had his affair, I started training to climb Mt Whitney. It gave me something to focus on other than my marriage.

When he finally left several years later (we had reconciled after the affair but as he approached 50 MLC returned) I took up learning to play the drums. Again, it gave me something to focus on and think about other than my divorce.

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Thank you KML,

Boy, I was typing fast and my post should state my IC is standing ALONG side me.

But thank you for the clarification. I think somewhere in me I feel if I don’t keep it at the front of my thoughts, then I must not care enough.

This helps me continue to pursue me.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by PLC
I think somewhere in me I feel if I don’t keep it at the front of my thoughts, then I must not care enough.

Oh my, how I remember that!

You bet. I also had those thoughts and feelings of needing to keep W front and center. Ah, bargaining. It’s an interesting time. The last grasps at attempting to keep everything feeling “normal”.

Letting go happens after this. And then the feelings of depression of one’s loss. (((PLC))) You are perfectly fine and doing well.

Not letting go. Remaining vigilant in proving just how much you care. Is like lighting yourself on fire to try to get smoke in your spouse’s eyes.

Focus on you. Pursue you.

Realize the sameness of your situation, the weeks of nothing different is happening. The drama has settled. Enter the time of limbo.

Originally Posted by PLC
Can one just need a break from talking about it?

Absolutely!

Indifference is upon you. Don’t worry or fret when things feel numb, it is quite normal. And your feelings will return.

Continue moving forward and let go.

D


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Thank you Dnj,

I am beginning to feel frustrated. Frustrated with the situation.

He has done nothing different. I am doing my own thing. I think that the monotony of the situation with him is doing this. He is very much avoidant of home life.

It is weird. I came home from work yesterday as he was leaving the house. I said hello and he replied. I asked if he was leaving and he said, "yes, i'll be right back" I didn't reply. Its the way he says things. Very mumbly, no eye contact.

I think it would have been weird had we not said anything.

I am continuing to GAL but I wonder if he is planning anytime to head out to visit OW (or at least try). I think that is somewhat waiting for another shoe to drop. I think back and when he came home from being out of the coutry working, It took him almost 4 months to seem like he was coming out of the fog. That lasted until May when I disovered OW2, and then he slowly began to turn towards himself that he eventually asked for a D at the end of July.

Today, I just am tired.

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Hi PLC

It is a difficult situation and a little more even during this time
All I can say is self care
I know you have heard it all b4

reminding yourself- you are doing a good job
taking the high road and letting him find his way

and knowing you will figure out your next moves as well
'trusting the uncertainty and using the time for your growth healing and becoming better

I like to listen to u tube videos, read spiritual books and motivational speakers
to remind me of my goal

Being grateful for today-
no matter the circumstances
as best as possible


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Thank you PT,

I will look it on you tube.

Well, I think I know why I was frustrated. H has, during this sitch left a locked suitcase ready to go. Yesterday, I noticed he had moved it around. This morning, his truck is here and the suitcase and a duffel are gone. I am frustrated because he was planning on going away and didn’t tell me, that he was going or when he will return. I am sure he is trying to go see OW2 and the person that he either went with or took him to the airport is a subordinate.

I feel if he was going for work he would tell me. Do I reach out and ask when he is returning, or do I only reach out if it is an emergency?

My only emotion is irritation that he didn’t tell me. I really had a feeling he was going to try and see her.

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Ok, I have thought about it for a while-

I really have no reason to text unless there is a an emergency and honestly, I don’t care when he is coming home.

If he was leaving for good, he left A LOT of stuff I know he values. So this is just a vacation.

So, is there any negative to me not asking when he will be home and if not, any behavior I should exhibit when does come back?

If there is, what should I NOT do? I can be very sarcastic at times and my instinct upon return is to make some snarky comment. So this is why I need to know how to approach.

TIA PLC

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Hello PLC

Standing is a difficult road to walk; not for the faint of heart.

We take our focus off our spouse and let go. They need to, and will anyhow, running in whatever direction they feel is right. The standing LBS is walking a path to outlast the MLC, not fix it.

H is currently doing his thing, whatever that may be. He didn’t tell you, so no pressure and let it be. You don’t want to be a “cause” for him to incorrectly blame. Remember he is looking for “reasons” to justify his mixed up narrative. “It just can’t be me” is still playing within his head.

It’s ok not to contact him, he is the one who left without any word after all.

Your feelings are most understandable. Do keep your expectations to zero, H is irrational and his empathy chip is broken.

Hang in there. (((Hugs)))

D


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Thank you Dnj,

It just seems so counter intuitive, but he is not living that right now.

I can guess he didn't know what to say so he just left instead of lying. It's funny, because he has been lying for the last 17 months minimum.

I will GAL this weekend, D25 is home from her trip last week and maybe we can do something safely.

If he does not contact me, I wonder how it will be when he does come home. I wonder if he expects me to say something? 180 would be that I don't.

Thank you!

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Update, it is almost 10:00 pm here and I have not heard from him. I mentioned to D25 that I thought he went out of town since the work truck was here, and she didn’t even realize. I would have thought he would tell her when he’d be back considering she sleeps in the living room and I am sure was awakened when he left.

I have made plans for tomorrow. Nothing exciting, but nice to look forward to something.

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Good Morning PLC

I didn’t see your post that was two minutes before mine, until this morning.

Yes, remain dark unless there is an emergency. In three years, there has never been anything I needed to reach out to tell XW.

Originally Posted by PLC
If he was leaving for good, he left A LOT of stuff I know he values. So this is just a vacation.

Expectations.

You’d be surprised at what a person in crisis deems valuable and deems worthless.

Quote
If he was leaving for good, he left A LOT of stuff I know he values. So this is just a vacation.

Maybe that’s better. What do think?

Originally Posted by PLC
So, is there any negative to me not asking when he will be home and if not, any behavior I should exhibit when [he] does come back?

First off, remember MLC will run its course, it has too.

I think your idea of are there any negatives from not asking is coming from a place where you feel you can alter his course somewhat.

Treat him like a roommate. He left without telling you anything. If he wanted you to know, he should have told you, or would have told you.

If his time away is for a long period, his contributions to the household bills and joint expenses may get into the arrears. If/when that is starting to happen then text him stating he need to deposit $x for bills. Other than that, stay silent. And GAL. I do believe your finically situation is rather stable and H’s money is directly deposited so this is most likely a nonissue for a while.

Originally Posted by PLC
If there is, what should I NOT do? I can be very sarcastic at times and my instinct upon return is to make some snarky comment. So this is why I need to know how to approach.

Lol. Sarcasm is not a good idea. That may feel good for a bit, and will end in regret.

Originally Posted by PLC
If he does not contact me, I wonder how it will be when he does come home. I wonder if he expects me to say something? 180 would be that I don't.

Do that 180. Say little. And definitely no snarky comments. Kind and cordial. This may be a bit of an act, at first. The real thing you are after is you were doing stuff, GAL, living, and not missing and sitting around for him. His return should be little more than - Oh, Hi H.

He is in a mixed up and confused place right now. Desperately seeking relief from unrelenting feeling and emotions. Hopefully he realizes, no matter how far and fast you run - there you are. He cannot escape himself.

The heart of standing and healing: Removing your focus from your spouse as they do what they are driven to do. While living your life, fully, happily, and honourably.

Enjoy your plans for today. Spend time with D25.

Focus on you.

D


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Thank you Dnj

Well, I made it through the whole day without contacting him and not hearing from him.

I thought about your comment that when a MLCer leave, you’d be surprised at what they leave. So let’s say this,if he left all of this, I was left a lot of value.

I do have one comment that scares me, you mentioned eventually the MLC has to end and I know my goal is to stand longer than the MLC. But this little voice inside wonders if he really wasn’t happy married to me and he won’t ever end this journey. I understand I would have to make the decision to no longer stand, but I am sure I am not the only one that wonders this. Can we have misdiagnosed MLC?

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Originally Posted by PLC
I do have one comment that scares me, you mentioned eventually the MLC has to end and I know my goal is to stand longer than the MLC. But this little voice inside wonders if he really wasn’t happy married to me and he won’t ever end this journey. I understand I would have to make the decision to no longer stand, but I am sure I am not the only one that wonders this. Can we have misdiagnosed MLC?


PLC, you are decidedly NOT the only one to ponder this. I have run my little mind in circles pondering exactly this question. And I am no further along in my journey than you are, but I have this recent realization to share: at some point it just won't matter.

This journey is about YOU, not about H. At some point in YOUR journey, you will say to yourself 'you know what? I don't deserve to be treated like this... it doesn't work for me any longer. I don't want to subject myself to this kind of treatment and I want to release myself from these questions now.' OR you will say 'hey, this love and history we had was REAL. H is a lost little boy (enter whatever non-patronizing adjectives work for you here) right now and I am going to have love and compassion and carry on as best I can, knowing it is not about me.'

No judgement for whatever path feels most authentic to you. But whatever path you choose, please remember that you are wonderful and worthy.

(((PLC)))

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Thank you Sage!

Lost little boy sounds right.

I guess since I am thinking and wondering where his thoughts are regarding me, I need to drop the rope more.

You are right, this is my journey. He may have set me upon this path, but I am the one on the path and I am the one making those decisions.

I do wonder if he is coming home today to go to work tomorrow, or if maybe he took a week off of work (he has a lot of vacation time) or if he is not planning on coming home. I even looked at his fake social media profile and nothing there I can see.

So I have the whole day ahead of me and it is for me. I need to push thoughts of him out of my head and keep on moving forward.

I hope you have a good day.

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PLC

It is hard to let go, you are doing well and with every passing day, you are stronger
more grounded and with more clarity

Because MLC usually is a long road, we have to continue on
gal, hobbies, friends, spiritual stuff ( I know-u know all this )
finding things that we enjoy and let go of them
hard I know-living for today but planning for tomorrow

As for the end of MLC...I think it is different for each of us
We see clues, we see H choices, we heal and let go more
then the time does seem to come for most of us
either the MLCer makes attempt at reconciliation and returns
or
a D is filed...some people get back together after D
and
sometimes it is us... we just dont want to be here any longer..
we move on


Depending on the damage the MLC does to himself...some begin destructive affairs, get in debt, get into drugs/alcohol
lose jobs, get sick and then all these issues have to be addressed as well
they dont always get out of MLC the same...they create more baggage

only in time will you know the outcome
living in some amount of uncertainty ..

.life asks that of us and doing our best to continue with our growth

This way you teach your D how to take care of herself, we have no regrets for our M because we know how we tried to work it out and we set ourselves up for the best possible future
whichever way it goes


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Thank you PT,

You are right.

I always seem to have my doubts mostly on the weekend. With H who knows where, it makes me more confident because I need to rely on me only.

I will get there eventually. This is up to me.

PLC

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Hello PLC

Originally Posted by PLC
I do have one comment that scares me, you mentioned eventually the MLC has to end and I know my goal is to stand longer than the MLC. But this little voice inside wonders if he really wasn’t happy married to me and he won’t ever end this journey. I understand I would have to make the decision to no longer stand, but I am sure I am not the only one that wonders this. Can we have misdiagnosed MLC?

Both Sage and peace are correct. You are on your journey and H is on his.

The diagnosis of MLC is not something one can be 100% assured of; it’s not like a blood test would show it, not that our spouses would submit to such a thing. MLC, WAS, etc. matters little. Your path is your path.

My previous comment about standing and outlasting MLC, I thought might cause some concern. Sorry about that.

Nothing about MLC, or life for that matter, is guaranteed. The person in crisis might become whole and healed, or they might never exit their fantasy world, forever tumbling down the rabbit hole. They could also exit and not be able to, or want to, face what they’ve done, choosing their life such as it is; too old and tired of running, resigned to their less than happy, consequence filled life.

And there is the LBS’ path. How long does one stand? How long does one “try” to outlast this? How long does one hope? And so on. These are question all of us grapple with.

Standing for you is at the crux of outlasting this. When you stand for you, then it is only you that needs to reinforce your desire to stand. Standing is not contingent upon the behaviour of H. It is also only you that would end your stand, not H, or friends, or family, or whatever.

Trying to outlast MLC: There is no try. Do, or do not, outlast. It’s a mindset. Granted the end date of MLC, if it happens, is not in your control. However, your “doing” is within your control. Trying almost predisposed one for failure.

Outlasting MLC, may not be in the “we are reconciled” form. We get passed all this mess. We regain our lives. We find and live our beliefs. We heal. Reconciliation is a bonus, not the goal. The goal of this “game” is you, and how you “play” matters a lot.

You can stand, and far longer than you feel is possible. I know the voice of doubt you hear - maybe my spouse actually wasn’t happily married to me. And perhaps they won’t ever resolve their MLC. I would be standing all that time for nothing.

Standing is for you!

My stand is just a way of life right now. XW and I don’t talk or communicate. She is still living with OM. I am happy and living my life.

Standing at its most basic - don’t date. I remain kind and cordial on those rare occasion where her and I did communicate - graduation and such. I have compassion, understanding, and found forgiveness. So, basically be kind, lead a good life, and don’t date.

Lots of people post divorce choose not to date. Standing has another competent - I realize I would be willing to explore if XW and I have any spark left. If her and I had any passion or desire left. I am currently willing to date her, if/when she were to exit her messed up world.

That doesn’t change a whole lot in my day to day activities of life. If she never exits her tunnel, I’ve lived as a single guy. I won’t/don’t consider that lost or wasted time.

Standing down: One realizes they would not be, or currently are not, willing to date or explore the possibility of a spark with their ex spouse.

Your goal of standing longer than MLC - I have the same one. Paradoxically to achieve this, one doesn’t focus on the goal; outlasting becomes an emergent effect of standing for you.

D


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Dnj,

Thank you. I wasn't concerened about standing longer than MLC, I was concerned that I, would be "Standing for nothing" You got me.

You understand what I am feeling as well as you explained the definition of standing and how it can take many forms in the end game.

During these last 17 months, I have come so far. I thought I was "independent" a few months after, and now I see how this situation has really changed me and how I choose to stand. It is a lot more than I thought I could handle.

H still is not home. It is a little after 4:00 pm here. I can tell he has been looking at social media, so I don't know if he is on his way home or if he just had a break and thought to look and see what is going on. Not knowing has been a bit freeing as since I don't know, I am doing my own thing and he is not in the back of my mind as, "I wonder if he will want to eat when I cook" I wonder.... (Fill in the blank)

I can't do things even with him in mind since who knows if or when he will be back? So this is an interesting development for me.

I just want you, Peacetoday and sage and any others that have chimed in on this latest wrinkle to know how helpful this all is.

PLC

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Originally Posted by PLC
During these last 17 months, I have come so far. I thought I was "independent" a few months after, and now I see how this situation has really changed me and how I choose to stand. It is a lot more than I thought I could handle.

H still is not home. It is a little after 4:00 pm here. I can tell he has been looking at social media, so I don't know if he is on his way home or if he just had a break and thought to look and see what is going on. Not knowing has been a bit freeing as since I don't know, I am doing my own thing and he is not in the back of my mind as, "I wonder if he will want to eat when I cook" I wonder.... (Fill in the blank)

I can't do things even with him in mind since who knows if or when he will be back? So this is an interesting development for me.



It is so hard for the old-timers to convince you of how to adjust your mind. I think it's right that you have to figure it out by walking it. Glad you are learning in just 17 months. It took me about 6 years.

The main thing is this -- if you can imagine that you don't have a husband anymore, that you have split up, and that you have forgiven him and would consider taking him back if that day ever came, but it is nowhere near coming now, if you could do that and figure out a new meaning for your life that truly doesn't consider what he is doing, thinking, saying, eating, etc., that is the key to standing. Standing means that you don't shut the door if H ever came back. But PLC, he is GONE. There is no point in noticing what he does/says/thinks/eats, and doing that will be perceived by him in the opposite way you want. But most importantly, it will keep your heart and mind so raw that you will have trouble healing. The goal of no-contact is not to punish your H. It's to give you the space to heal.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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Thank you Gerda,

You are correct. This weekend has definitely been a lesson in standing.

I can see where I am good and now see where I need to grow more.

H came home around 6:30. I heard him come in, say hi to D and he went into his “room”.

I was anxious of how it could play out and how I would react when I saw him and he took care of that by not even coming into the area of the house I was in.

Again, a lesson in not wondering what he is doing. I had anxiety that he owned for the afternoon and it only affected me. He does not deserve that power.

PLC

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Last edited by job; 10/13/20 03:20 PM. Reason: added link to new thread

Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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