First post from an early 40s UK male dad on the difficult topic of separation / divorce. Although my situation has bounced around for some time, I never thought it would come to me positing for help but I’ve made all the mistakes so far, so shouldn’t be surprised.
I thought it would help me to write my situation and sadness down with the hope I might get some strong, honest, feedback reaffirming what my family are trying to tell me.
I write this after just a couple of hours sleep over the last few nights following one of those life changing moments, so I hope it makes sense. Let me explain…
Me: 44 / Wife: 45 / Daughter 12
It starts with a classic tale of moving to a new area for work, meeting a lovely girl at work and it was our 16th wedding anniversary last Friday. Prior to this I’d not had many relationships and from a classic English Northern family where we perhaps don’t do the touch feely / romance sort of stuff which we should.
All good in the early years, went through the pain of dealing with a parent’s cancer battle early on together and then a daughter arrives 4 years into the marriage. At this point, the new parent instincts kick in and I become a nest builder, wrapping daughter up in cotton wool and life goes into a fairly unexciting but valuable process of focus on child, work, home. Only quality time together though was an annual date night. I’d also really got bogged down mentally, piled on the weight, didn’t go out (no friends in the area) lost all confidence to travel and take holidays and just thought that providing for the family through this period was enough. Daughter was a difficult child to parent (turns out on the autism spectrum) and no family on my side anywhere near to support. Limited support from my wife’s family but that is not a criticism.
My wife mentioned on our annual date night in 2014 that I should get some help and we should go out more. I just didn’t take that in – combination of what turned out to be depression and as we travelled and worked together, when we did go out the conversation was limited. By 2015, my wife had said she had had enough and I started to listen to her issues with me – there was no fun, I had no get up and go, we didn’t go out enough or have holidays, etc. At this point I started to take some initial actions – new job, started to exercise to get some confidence back, even a couple of holidays in 2016. However, underlying all this was a deep set resentment on her part and she still would not agree to counselling to work through our issues constructively (generally they always turn into an argument). Basically said I had missed my chance. I hoped that seeing some changes over time would help her to agree to some counselling but in late 2018 she said she wanted to move out and I bought her share of the house. She moved a couple of miles away in mid-2019, although it took her a few months after buying her new place to move out, there was no pressure (I didn’t want her to go as thought the physical separation would become a barrier). This period prior to move out was when we had got on better than in last few years and even had some physical intimacy.
Anyway, we’ve kept in mixed contact over last year, shared our daughter and had a couple of afternoon out drinks back in Dec 2019 but things have been very up and down. I was hoping she might come around to counselling, especially when she had made comments that she has found it tough and the grass not being greener living on her own. However, she hasn’t shown any sign of change here, which then frustrates me and I have said many nasty untruthful immature things to her to get a reaction. That is the cycle of the last 14 months of physical separation. Having an autistic child hasn’t helped and has been the cause of some arguments and challenges.
Over the last few months there has been a change in her behaviour. She has picked up a new female friend who seems to be encouraging her to go out and drink and this has caused some issues around her getting home safely, etc. It now also worries my daughter – I get blamed for all this though and creating these worries for my daughter to adopt. This is now a further issue for my wife – she keeps going on about being monitored, not being able to go anywhere without questions, etc. I don’t see why it is such a big issue unless she has something to hide.
To cut a long story short, I just had that gut feel something else wasn’t right and she admitted on a couple of weeks ago that she has been contacted through the lockdown period by an ex-colleague and has recently been out for drinks a couple of times wife him. My gut feel says it’s more than drinks and more serious but she says it is the truth and is too early to tell, etc He is a little older than her and looks more extrovert and fun than me and I imagine can give her the things that she wanted from our marriage but I didn’t know until it was too late. In hindsight, they were easy to fix and I’ve grown / changed over the last few years to want them more also.
Since being hit by this and taking it very badly (e.g. 2 hour sleep a night, not eating, escaped to my parents 100 miles away, etc), we have had several tearful phone conversations. I explained to her how much I’ve been wanting to sort the issues out over the last 5 years, how much I feel and care for her, how I’ve started to change, etc. She says she never realised I felt this way and didn’t think I was bothered about our marriage. She asked me to write these feelings down which I did over 13 pages and which she said made her very upset. Since reading the letter, she called round for a chat and we hugged and we have had pleasant daily contact over the last 7 days. I sent her some flowers to mark our anniversary and wish her future love and happiness and she said she was incredibly touched by them and truly grateful. I collected my daughter yesterday from her and she even popped down to the car for a quick chat which was nice and first. Shortly after I called her asking if she needed anything for dinner and she was a little hesitant. I asked her if she was going out and she said she might be. I asked with him and she said yes. She had previously said a couple of drinks means nothing long term but I struggled with her going out again so soon with him after the positivity of last couple of weeks. It would appear she stayed out with him last night but not 100% confirmed.
She says that she cannot suddenly change her feelings after receiving the letter and I tell her I understand and I am not asking her too. I would just like to redicoer over time our friendship and see how it progresses However, I cannot carry on holding out hope whilst she continues to develop a relationship with someone else. I told her on the call last night that it has to be over from my perspective now and we need to break contact, other than essential contact in relation to my daughter.
I sit here the following day having not heard from her but in so much pain – sitting, hopping and checking my phone constantly. I cannot understand how we can go from the nice conversations and contact, to her going back out with someone else. It feels like I no longer know the girl
My head say I have to take control and convince myself there is no way back and we need to complete the divorce and move on (and let her new relationship develop to give her the future she couldn’t see with me). My heart says I would still do anything for her, albeit the issue of even an emotional relationship with someone else is difficult to accept. I’ve not left her alone and said some terrible things to her over the years to vent my frustrations and try to illicit a response to get some counselling, so don’t have much sympathy for myself to have changed her mindset.
I know the next step is to really work cut the contact, other than essential contact for our daughter and divorce preparation. I will also accept I will have to watch from not far away how her new relationship develops, especially with social media. It will extreme painful for me. As I live a long way from family, I really worry about just being on my own in the local area having to manage this. The last year has been so lonely and all that I have focussed on is having her back in my life.
I’d welcome any observations – it’s a 99.9% lost cause as far as I can see it. In the meantime, I’m a complete emotional mess and can’t get the thought of her being with anyone else out of my head. It breaks my heart.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Last edited by Cadet; Mon Jun 15 2020 08:23 AM. Me-66, D33,S32
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Welcome DJH. Sorry you are here but really glad at the same time because you have come to the right place if you are wanting to save your marriage but more importantly, save yourself. I know you are really struggling right now. I’ve been there. We all have.
First of all... I don’t think there is no hope in saving your marriage. Reading what you wrote, I think there is a lot of hope. HOWEVER, I do think the situation will become hopeless if you keep doing what you are doing. You need to stop right now. As hard as it is, you need to take your focus off of your wife and put it squarely onto you. Understand that doing nothing is way, way, way better than doing anything that gets perceived as pressure by your wife. No more letters. No more texts asking her what she is doing or where she is. Your texts should only be about your daughter and even those should be limited. Your wife needs to miss you. She can’t do that if you are always in her face reminding her you are there. She knows this. Let her go to get her back. And when you see her, don’t tell her you have changed, show her. And stop with the flowers and gifts. That is just more pressure.
I know you are driving yourself crazy thinking about her with another guy. Stop doing that. You are only torturing yourself and there is a very, very good chance that the reality and what you are imagining are very different. You don’t know what is going on so stop torturing yourself. Easier said than done, I know, but you are not helping yourself. You need to find a way to detach. Work on it as if your life depends on it because it does at this point.
When you find yourself wanting to send her something or call her or do anything to contact her... come on here and post about it instead. If you can follow this one rule, you will be way ahead of the game. Read as many threads as you can. This will help you immensely.
I could write more but that’s enough for now. Others will be along soon, I’m sure. Hang in there. You can do this! (((HUGS)))
Welcome to the club that nobody wanted to join. You will find strength and healing here.
Yes, your W is dating another man.
First things first, read all of the links that Job provided and pick up a copy of Divorce Remedy.
Social media will cause nothing but obsession and grief for you. Stay completely off of social media for the foreseeable future.
No contact, unless it’s about your kids, is going to be your best bet and will help expedite the healing process. Right now you might feel like your life is over, you will never be happy again, and that no one will ever love you like your W used to. With time, you will come to find your self worth again and realize that you already have the recipe for happiness locked deep within yourself. It will take time for you to discover that, but you will.
You’re going to survive this, and even come out the other side a better version of yourself, with or without your W.
They bring me a little comfort. I've sat by the phone all day, destroyed by thoughts and tiredness. Have a 2 hour drive this ring and a working week in my own. I'll try and read and take the advice. I kick myself over the last 5 years if limbo that I could commit to the detachment thing. I have made physical changes though - regular exercise, 4 stone weight loss, more activities, etc, which have been noticed but without resulting in any change. I just don't want this current and forthcoming pain to cause me to drift back to depression. My life would be really good if I could just sort the marriage dimension.
Anyway, thanks so far. I'm sure I will be back as advised as I will need to fight the no contact thing, especially being on my own next week.
Hi Damian, I want to urge you to post daily. You don't have to post a lot, if you don't have much to say. The board is your support group, and the more you read the more questions you may have.
Your story is a familiar one, and I can only guess at how much you are down on yourself at the moment. It is vitally important that you focus on Damian, and become the man Damian respects. When you reinvent yourself and begin liking the man you've become, it will change how others see you........including your W. Women are designed in such a way that their attraction and their feelings of being in love is tied to their respect for their H. So, if her respect for him as a man begins to fade, so will her attraction for him fade. Respect = attraction, and that is the formula or measuring stick to use from this point forward. Ask yourself if it is attractive for a jilted H to sit by his phone all day, waiting & hoping his W (who has another man) will call. As a woman, I can clearly tell you it is not attractive. As a woman who had OM, I can promise you it would be a complete turn-off if your W knew you were looking at your phone hoping she'll contact you.
Your marriage troubles have surpassed the point where your W longed for you to fill her emotional needs. She has fired you as her H, and is currently involved with another man who she thinks is the answer to her unhappiness. I don't say this to hurt you, but to get you to see that you've got to respond to this situation in a way that will probably want to resist. By that, I mean that you probably want to convince her how much you love her and how committed you are to working on the MR if she'll just give you another chance. I have to tell you that it doesn't work that way. We will try to share with you what we've learned, what works and doesn't work.
Okay, so the first thing we usually tell a newcomer is to detach. What does detaching mean? First, let me tell you what it doesn't mean. It doesn't mean you stop loving her. It doesn't mean you act hateful, respond with mean words, or take revenge on her. It means you step away from her drama. You step away from rescuing her when she needs something. You step away from being her dutiful H. Remember, she fired you, and she has OM, so you are no longer required to fix something that breaks down at her house, or her car, or run errands, or whatever. You don't run to her when she snaps her fingers. Although everything in you wants to run to her, you must refuse. Let her rely on her OM. Don't let it scare you, b/c this is needed in order for her to get a glimpse of life without you.
This advice usually scares the newcomer, b/c he uses Hollywood films as his guide in what works. He thinks he needs to pursue his W, in as many ways as he can find. He'll use as many words possible to keep her tied in a conversation; send her flowers; show up at certain events he thinks she'll attend; show up at her family celebrations; send her gifts/cards on Valentine's Day, her birthday, Christmas, etc. He'll use his child or anything else as an excuse to contact her during the day/night. Most women who want this separation and who are in an affair, seem to want to exchange photos of their child. She sends H a photo, and he thinks he has to respond with a text. Then when it's his turn to have the child, she'll want him to send her photos, as well. This is a method some women use to keep the H emotionally tied to her. Plus, photos can tell her where he is, what they are doing, etc. He may not mind whatsoever, and in fact, be happy for an excuse to send her a photo, and maybe a text along with it (I've seen it all). I may stand alone on this issue, but I discourage the entrapment of exchanging photos. Yes, I said "entrapment".
You may not want to do anything we recommend, b/c your emotions are trying to dictate your actions. It's okay to break down and cry, but don't do it front of her.......or D12. Don't respond to her when you are angry, sad, lonely, etc. If she asks something, or you need suggestions on a decision/action......please run it by the board before you act. Give it at least a couple of days & nights on small stuff. Fairly soon, you will be able to look from this view point: Will this command her respect for me as a man? Is this the action/behavior of an attractive, alpha male?
Apart from reading the links on the page Cadet posted, I encourage you to write out a plan of action for the next six months. A health regiment, activities with D12, GAL activities, personal goals, etc. This plan of action needs to focus on you reinventing yourself. If you need IC to deal with things, then do it. When I read your story, I saw a man who didn't have much, apart from his wife & child, and he wasn't happy. You may think you would be happy if your W would come back, but if you don't learn to be happy without her.....why would she think you would be different if she went back? It's not easy, but it's very doable, b/c it doesn't depend upon another person. It's you working on you, while you leave her alone to sort out her own stuff. Please don't tell her you are working on yourself!!! It just kills me when I read where some LBH shares this type information with his wife. No more sharing personal things with her. That means you don't tell her about you activities GAL, what it was, where it was, who was there, or when you got home. She no longer has the right to know things about your personal life. She walked away from it.
Having a daughter 12 years old, shouldn't require as much interaction with your W..........say, like a small child might. When you must discuss something about D12, make sure you stay on that one topic only. Try to keep your emotions from showing, and speak in a professional business manner, as much as possible. I realize this is your child, and it may not always be easy, but I'm just giving you sort of pattern to use for now.
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I have made physical changes though - regular exercise, 4 stone weight loss, more activities, etc, which have been noticed but without resulting in any change.
By "change" you mean in her feelings and/or change in the sitch. You've got to stop that line of thinking, b/c it's destructive to your mental attitude. She has to have time to process a few things for herself. It's hard for the LBH to step back when his W is being influenced by new people in her life, but she is not going to hear anything you say. This may, or may not, have started b/c of your neglect & depression, however, she has entered into a different realm, so to speak. She's not just a WAW who left a H & MR that showed no signs of life. She's involved in an affair, maybe involved with new friends, etc. I doubt there is anything you could do at this moment, that would bring her home to stay. If you are constantly looking back at her to see if she notices change........you will feel defeated. I wish there was a faster, easier solution. I'm sharing what I've seen work when the W leaves and is involved with OM.
I suspect your first question will be, "How will she know I'm changing"? Don't worry, she'll know if you genuinely change as a man. Your job isn't to show her. Your job is to become the most attractive, alpha male possible. If you accomplish your job, and let life/time take care of her........you will come out winning.
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My life would be really good if I could just sort the marriage dimension.
Well, there you go! Turn your attention away from the marriage dimension and focus on your good life getting even better. It is your best shot!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I was hoping she might come around to counselling, especially when she had made comments that she has found it tough and the grass not being greener living on her own. However, she hasn’t shown any sign of change here, which then frustrates me[/quote] Marriage counseling is pressure and it rarely does anything good IMO. You are frustrated because you think that if she went everything would be moving in a positive direction. There is not a good measuring stick. She is out. If and when she wants to be back in, you'll know without a doubt.
Originally Posted by DJH
Over the last few months there has been a change in her behaviour. She has picked up a new female friend who seems to be encouraging her to go out and drink and this has caused some issues around her getting home safely, etc. It now also worries my daughter – I get blamed for all this though and creating these worries for my daughter to adopt. This is now a further issue for my wife – she keeps going on about being monitored, not being able to go anywhere without questions, etc. I don’t see why it is such a big issue unless she has something to hide.
Brother, she is not your woman. Act accordingly.
Originally Posted by DJH
I told her on the call last night that it has to be over from my perspective now and we need to break contact, other than essential contact in relation to my daughter.
I would stop expressing non essential thoughts to your estranged wife. Definitely express zero feelings.
Originally Posted by DJH
I know the next step is to really work cut the contact, other than essential contact for our daughter and divorce preparation. I will also accept I will have to watch from not far away how her new relationship develops, especially with social media. It will extreme painful for me. As I live a long way from family, I really worry about just being on my own in the local area having to manage this. The last year has been so lonely and all that I have focussed on is having her back in my life.
There is no work involved in cutting contact. You just do it. Only communicate about your daughter.
You don't have to "watch her new relationship develop". You should be making something great out of your life. Let her watch as you go be a great guy. Ditch the social media, or at least don't be friends with her.
Lonely can be nice. I remember when my wife was gone and I had the house to myself. No one else making messes, I got to enjoy doing what I wanted, without telling anyone. Just go wherever, whenever, for whatever reason. There's a lot of pluses to having the place to yourself.
And what is a "long way from family"? How far, or how long? The UK isn't that big is it?
Can't you make some friends around you? Start new/old hobbies? GAL?
Your W has feelings for you still, that means there is more than a 99.9% chance IMO. Go be the best you, go kill it at work, social life, personal growth. Stop pressuring her and get your swagger back. Lose the weight, get new clothes, stand straight, speak loudly, look people in the eye and smile a little.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Thanks for the further responses and a quick update from me.
I've got through to bedtime on Monday. I've not heard from my wife and don't expect it anytime soon, she will take what I said on Saturday about it being over for me and to only contact me again about my daughter, when she went out again withe other person. I realise I need to be careful with these loose statements.
I haven't contacted her but possibly made a small.mistake earlier. I work in a town centre location and my daughter / wife went to the town today. I've been doing interviews all day and had to rush to the town to get a drink. I contacted my daughter and asked her to pop over to where I was to say hello. The mistake us that I walked her back to where her mum was having coffee. I felt quite good as I'd dropped another trouser size and had had to dress up. My wife made a comment about how slim I was looking. I just said hello and asked her how she was. She said she was okay, alright, although not in the most positive of tones. I just said okay and goodbye and strutted off with various emotions (not that she would tell). Probably a mistake but I'll hold my hand up there. My first thought was shouldn't you be really happy now that you have a new relationship on the go.
Just on the GAL point, I still have things to do but should add since 2015 I took up running and reduced weight by just under 5 stone over the 5 years. I'm running or cycling up to 5 times a week to help my physical / mental health. I also took a job which has required me to travel across Europe and forced me to address my travel phobia. I look back on my life 5 years ago and will be the first to admit I was boring. I never want to go back there in any capacity. I still have more to do. My wife has previously said she recognises some of the changes.
I understand detaching is more for me and is preparation for my wife never returning. My concern is that is does become self-fulfilling. If I don't contact her, does this create a void for others to fill and has she can be quite stubborn will she avoid contacting me even if she wants to? Appreciate early days but when someone else is pursuing, the temptation is to respond. I'm a little anxious for tomorrow as my daughter is staying at friends freeing my wife up who is not in work this week. Fear is she will disappear out for the night, I'll resist checking and try and switch off from the thoughts as nothing I can control.
Daughter has just rung me as she stresses about her mum drinking wine. She says mum has had 3 glasses. Daughter over elaborates to be honest, so I've told her to calm down and she is fine with her mum, do I won't get involved. Mildly interesting that she is having a drink on Monday night when she is usually trying to manage her weight, I'm over thinking it that she might be a bit stressed based in earlier comments.
Anyway, this is all so very painful and with little sleep recently, I will try and get some now. Minimal sleep last night and kept waking up in pain thinking about her and others.
Just to add so that you can advise on whether I have responded correctly or not.
Just had a couple of text messages from my wife (missed the first one, hence her second:
1. "Well done with the weight loss, you looked like a different person today. Even [daughter] said she had to do a double take!!"
2. "I assume your choosing to not reply on purpose based on your previous note [Saturday]...sorry, just thought you might welcome the compliment "
I've responded (and you can perhaps correct me and tell me I should have waited):
"No sorry, missed your earlier text. Thanks for the compliment. Doing well on that aspect of my journey and getting self confidence back, a little work to do in other areas but thanks".
She has just responded but I won't reply (as tempting as it is):
"Missed my text!! Good work anyway, apparently [wife's friend who I bumped into on Saturday] couldn't stop singing your praises"
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
