I saw a lot of strange new parts of my XH in MLC He dressed different. He partied like a teenager. He was secretive He sometimes looked happy and good and other times he looked awful He lived on the beach
He was a different man and he was sick a lot He got High Blood pressure and ailments during this time He was 40
He was also using prescriptions and medications for his Blood pressure drinking also
He was a very sober man b4 MLC The pain they internally go through pushes them into activities to numb it they stay up, some party- then oversleep
You may see more as time goes on
You are doing good and now you are probably seeing this new person he is it takes a while to sink in I really could not believe how much my XH changed in a short span of time
Read all you can about MLC You will see recurrent theme
hang in
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Welcome to the MLC board. From what I’ve read your H fits the MLCer traits. His confusion and obvious depression are very telling.
Good for you going to the family event and having a good time.
Originally Posted by wooba
S11 has refused to talk to me about what's causing him stress until few days ago, he finally opened up a bit. A few things he said - "where does dad live?" "you guys are pretty much like divorced already." "I miss dad but when he is around all he does is yell at me." "I worry about the whole step mom or step dad thing"
I addressed what I could, but I told him that I really have no answers to the questions related to dad. I don't know what happened. I said if he'd like to call his dad sometimes, he's welcome to. he shook his head.
It does take a while of consistent stable parenting for children to open up.
It is perfectly fine and normal for son not to want to talk to, or contact, Dad. Do not push it. You job is not to facilitate the relationship between son(s) and Dad, your job is not to destroy it.
I understand you have no really concrete answers regarding Dad. However, you do know more than you may give yourself credit for. You have seen alien H’s behaviour, his outburst, his depressed self (I live in a dark tiny room for example), his confusion, the blowing up of his life, and so on. Do you believe in MLC?
That is such a question isn’t it? It takes us a while to gather enough understanding and compassion to find belief and acceptance for such an incredible shift in our once loving spouse. It is quite unbelievable at first.
However, I do think you see, understand, and believe (or mostly anyhow). Tell your kids. Explain to them.
They need answers. Age appropriate of course. They thirst for information and understanding as well. Their lives have been blown up too. They are looking for answers and will find explanations elsewhere or make up there own.
The big thing, be honest. This is not their fault. That is the most important message; reinforce it often.
Explain how Dad has changed, the mental and emotional problem part of this. It is difficult to find the age appropriate balance, however kids do provide feedback and follow up questions that do lead us.
Children have a desire for knowledge and accept things better and quicker than adults. MLC is a really thing. Children accept it quickly and with an explanation will continue their healing path.
There is no need to disparage their Dad. Be kind and compassionate, and truthful. I know you are by the way - just encouraging you as these conversations with our children are rather difficult. It is the right thing to do.
You might consider discussing his Dad yelling at son. The whole projection and Dad’s outburst and behaviour is really about himself and the pain within.
I would also explore the stepdad and stepmom thing. Yeah, kids would be worried about that. You can speak to one half of that for sure. And you might even be surprised at what they are actually worried about. My daughter was actually worried for me. She told me she would be ok with a stepmom. (Stepdad not so much). That speaks to the abandonment she suffered; her Mom abandoned her, not her Dad. Getting that out in the open lead to other discussions.
Have faith. You got this.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
H has been developing a pattern of “not following through” lately. Friday he said he would like to help with the boys’ first day of school with carrying books and things to the classroom. He even asked if I’d be ok with him coming to the house first and riding in the car with us in the morning to school. I said of course.
So today when I emailed to confirm with him, he wrote back, “I missed work two days in a row, so I’ll need to get into work early Monday.”
Yup. No apology, no nothing. I told the boys and they were disappointed. S8 said “why can’t him come again? He has to work?” I answered, “well, daddy often says that he has to work, but I really don’t know.”
What is everyone’s opinion on this by the way- letting the children know about a plan knowing that H very likely will cancel? I figured that if H sets a time and tells me with a degree of certainty, I will convey that message to the kids. And if he doesn’t show up, the kids will learn that dad’s words are not reliable. I’m not going to cover for him. But if he says “I will try to do xyz” , I probably won’t tell the kids that. It is also heartbreaking to see them disappointed.
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Other updates: I had a girls night out this past weekend to celebrate my birthday! I haven’t gone out and stayed past 12 in forever. We went to a bar before dinner, and it was very interesting because after we got our cocktails we were asked to put our masks on per government ordinance. It was funny. A bunch of people hanging out at a bar trying to drink while keeping our masks on. After dinner we went to another bar. Then we went to a club. We had our temp checked and hand sanitizer before going inside. Gosh I felt old. By the end of dinner I really just wanted to go home and sleep lol. Also mixing drinks throughout the night did not help either. Next time I will stick to home after dinner...
Glad you got to go out with your friends.. It was such a lifesaver for me to have some fun during the crises
That's a tough call about the kids of course you have to make your own choice with it, but here's my 2 cents
If H cancels a lot, I would consider not telling them in advance, and when H actually shows just surprise them
I never put my xh down I told them dad really wants to see you and loves you but, he he cant make it
after a while I told more truth and things became clearer...this was going to be a long road and when it was safe to do so with XH Sometimes people go through struggles in life, and crises and its not about them it is about his issues
Main thing is I never put xh down to them I tried to explain truth where they would understand and it would not push H away more The other thing is keep any expectations low that H will actually show for anything and go about your life If he shows its a plus and if not no stress just another Day in MLC gone
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I understand you have no really concrete answers regarding Dad. However, you do know more than you may give yourself credit for. You have seen alien H’s behaviour, his outburst, his depressed self (I live in a dark tiny room for example), his confusion, the blowing up of his life, and so on. Do you believe in MLC?... Tell your kids. Explain to them.
I just realized today that I somehow missed seeing your response! Must have happened while I was writing my last update. I never thought about explaining MLC to the kids before. I believe H is in crisis. But I don't want MLC to be a justification for his actions. I'm not sure what I should communicate to my kids. For them to understand MLC....is the point so they can forgive? Honestly sometimes I feel I know so little about this new H that I don't even know if I am doing the right diagnosis. I also worry about how H would react if he hears from the children that I said he has depression/mental issues.
Today H wrote in his email to me (we've been emailing back and forth few times a month about finances/scheduling) more of "we've had problems with our sex life for years.....don't blame me for situations for your own making...." type of stuff. I have called him out on his bs in a previous email. but this time I just said that we'll have to agree to disagree. I know I don't have to defend my truth..it is just tiring to even have to listen/read these accusations. It must be even more tiring for him to deny himself the truth and stick to his own narrative?
Anyways, I've been listening to The Chick's new album. Gaslighter is currently my favorite song. lol.
I see some similarities for us. I wouldn't say that my h is an alcoholic, but in the last 18 minths he has drunk a lot, he used fo tell me its because of me and as he couldn't cope with our marriage breakdown. And that he has been living it all this time and obv now over it.
I truly don't know whats worse, h not being in their lives or like my h implying that he can take the kids away and they are better off with him because apparently i emotionally suppress then and they flourish with him. I
All i can say that im worried so much that this will get nasty between us. He is adamant that he is the sane one in this and that i have had a mini breakdown. Erm says the man how wanted to commit suicide and from what he tells me tried to.
Re kids- mine are 5 and 6 and i try to be honest with them, as in sometime i tell them i simply dont know if their dad is coming or not. Its tricky with my sitch as the lids dont know yet.
I never thought about explaining MLC to the kids before. I believe H is in crisis. But I don't want MLC to be a justification for his actions. I'm not sure what I should communicate to my kids. For them to understand MLC....is the point so they can forgive? Honestly sometimes I feel I know so little about this new H that I don't even know if I am doing the right diagnosis. I also worry about how H would react if he hears from the children that I said he has depression/mental issues.
MLC is not justification for H’s / Dad’s actions; it is explanation.
It’s normal to not consider explaining MLC to our children. Parents do tend to protect. Children are much more accepting and strong then we usually give them credit for.
Whatever is revealed or explained does need to be delivered age appropriately.
You do have a good point with kids telling Dad what you said. And MLCer’s hate to be diagnosed.
You believe H is in crisis, and can see the changes and the alien behaviour. Children are rather observant and probably see even more than you do, but with less understanding. That is what you should explain.
Encourage their questions, concerns, fears, etc. and rationalize those. Explain to them.
Now this is pretty wide open, and one has no idea where this conversation will go or what subject might be brought up. That’s ok. You don’t need to have all the answers immediately. Just let them know that is a very good question, let me think about it, and we will discuss it tomorrow evening (or in a few days, if you are inquiring here for suggestions. There is a lots of wisdom in the group think here, however it does have a communication lag at times)
Dad’s depression, or more accurately his behaviour will be a subject. Discuss Dad’s behaviour. What they see, how they see it, what they think drives it. And always ensure they know Dad loves them. He may have difficulty expressing it right now, but it is there.
Is the point so kids can forgive? Yes. As well as to accept. To not blame themselves. To be happy. To understand and be compassionate.
In some situations, mine for example, the kids become LBC - left behind children. Their Mom lashed out at them, and threw them away. Most situations the kids see more parental fighting and confused behaviour from the MLC parent. Missed deadline, appointments, birthdays, and so on; it takes on the look of uncaring from their Mom/Dad, not so much aggressive abandonment. We deal with the hand that is dealt, and explain accordingly. We are the strong stable parent.
Please correct me if I am wrong. You have three sons, 11,10, and 8? My children were older during their Mom’s exodus. And I noticed differences between my three boys and my daughter’s reactions. My daughter lost her role model, for one.
I do not have all the answers, and stumbled plenty on my way through this. I made some blunders, and my “better” moments outshine and out count those by far. My situation blew up rather spectacularly which necessitated quicker explanations and more direct seeking of answers. I think you have more time, and can proceed at a better pace.
You can ask me anything you like wooba. We are all upon a path we didn’t choose. A path, that is an incredible opportunity.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi wooba, you are doing so well balancing your emotions while also making sure you are doing the best for your kids!
Originally Posted by wooba
he’s always had his idiosyncrasies. But when we had love, trust, and respect for each other, as family I accept those idiosyncrasies and took them for part of who he is. I did not like them at times, but overall they were within my threshold. I think now it’s more than me having my rosed color glasses off. He has become more and more strange.
This is a strange thing to watch and difficult to digest. But I think you are so right with the threshold...It’s give and take. We all have and do things that make us who we are And we learn to look past or embrace certain things. But this MLC behaviour is not that. Sometimes I try to flip my mind and be thankful for a bit of the crazy behaviours so as to not get gaslit by H! My H too has amped up the strange.
Originally Posted by wooba
I teared up a little after seeing him. I don’t wish him ill, and seeing someone I loved falling into pieces is very sad. But I reminded myself it’s not my problem anymore. I will not overextend myself. Plus he’s went through this sad-I-am-so-unwell-to-go-to-work phase before. Who knows what his deal really is.
I REALLY struggle with this too. My inner circle can not figure out why I don’t show anger, how I haven’t lost it on him yet. But I too just feel sadness. Sad for how lost he is and that he thinks being so awful to me is the solution (or at least that I’m the problem). You said the magic words “it’s not my problem anymore.” Still difficult when H is in the house and it’s all happening all under your nose.
I also like Gerda’s words stating “remember what a normal-minded father would do so you can stay clear headed.” I think this helps in anyone’s situation...just replace with normal-minded H!
Gigi - Don't worry for something that hasn't happened yet, but it doesn't to be prepared! I think at 5 & 6 they still understand very little. My youngest is 8 and he didn't seem to have a clue even if he's heard conversations I've had with the older brothers.
DnJ - wow, yes you got their ages correct! (I can't even do that sometimes lol) Well tonight at dinner I dipped my toes in the water by starting a conversation about their dad's visit today. Just generally asking if they enjoyed seeing dad. (H dropped by for maybe 10 mins to pick up something) They did, but they didn't express much beyond that. Why is it so hard to get boys to talk about their feelings and thoughts? I asked if they thought last time when we all went out for lunch with dad that dad seemed a bit off. They said no. S8 said "What does "off" mean?" lol. I said, "I thought he seemed a bit sad. Also when he said he was living in a dark tiny room. Maybe that is how he's feeling mentally also." Again, not much feedback from the kids on that topic. Later S11 did ask about whether dad is still "making money for us". I explained that when we were together that I was the one handling the finances. but now dad no longer trusts me to have access to the money (S10 said "What!") so we are still trying to figure that out.
S11 did ask here and there recently about the upcoming holidays. "What are we going to do for Halloween?" Me: we can till go trick or treating! "Is dad going to help us with decorating the xmas tree this year?" Me: I'm not sure.
Kindly- Yes, it's hard to be angry, or hate somebody when you know that they are not normal. Anger and hate don't do anything for us anyway!
Continue being strong and stable. This is building the foundation of safe and trusted communication for your kids with you.
Originally Posted by wooba
Why is it so hard to get boys to talk about their feelings and thoughts?
Lol. Ain’t that the truth.
With my daughter, I found I didn’t speak “girl”. My daughter and I spoke differently. As a suddenly single Dad, I did learn how, eventually, and am not bilingual by any stretch. D18 sees and feels the world very differently than me.
Boys do mature slower than girls. Typically girl’s emotions get explored and discovered early on. Boys more focus and explore their physical attributes, how fast they are, how strong, how high the can climb, and so on.
Intellectually, both boys and girls, can focus, and excel. In my experience, girls are better at focusing, boys seem to get distracted easier.
Of course that is just a generalization, an overall simplification. Everyone explores all aspects of themselves and their environment; both boys and girls. My daughter did plenty of racing around to see how fast she was also.
Growing into teens and young adults, boys and girls equalize. The boy’s maturing growth spurt happening later. Again my experience, boys making bigger strides as teens as they catch up, while girls continue along at their already good steady rate. It was interesting to see that unfold under my roof.
As pre-teen boys, your sons have emotions, and don’t focus upon them all that much. And for young kids, their emotions are immature. Emotions popping into existence and fleeting away quickly. That is perfectly normal, and usually rather aggravating for the adult wonder how do I get through to this kid. Lol.
I think you’ll be fine learning how to speak “boy”. As a partnership, husband and wife could and would handle and speak to things as a couple. Each reinforcing and strengthen where the other requires support. Now, the LBS steps up, and fills in - rather nicely if I say so myself. You can do this, without a doubt.
“Why is it so hard to get boys to talk about their feelings and thoughts?”
A mindset I found helpful: Work on less “getting” them to talk, and more inspiring them to open up.
People, even kids, maybe especially kids, talk when they feel like it. Note, feel like it.
Sure they will answer questions when asked, but they will converse when they feel like they want to. Same with pretty much anything when you think about it. For example, homework is such a chore, until they find a passion, a feeling, a desire, and then look out - when someone is inspired, wow the heights they can reach.
(For myself, young DnJ, grade 10 math. I had a teacher who reached me, or I grow up enough to be reached - either way. That was my educational turning point, that class. It was geometry and we were allowed to work ahead; and I excelled at that kind of learning. I had no idea. By the end of grade ten, I had completed everything in the math textbooks, all questions, all chapters, everything. And I had completed the grade eleven math textbook as well. After that, math and science really took off. I was that guy that handed in test after test scoring 100%. Which continued into my vocational training and schooling. Woah, bit of a tangent there. Lol Tangent, geometry. Giggle)
Kids are egocentric. Their world revolves around them. The story they tell themselves is about them. Perfectly normal and fine. Empathy, seeing things from someone else’s point of view, takes time to develop. Your boys may not, probably will not, give much thought to how Dad is feeling. It’s more how Dad treats them, that they will think about. In time their own empathy will grow.
I think your boys are doing really well. S8’s inquiry into what does “off” mean and your explanation was just right. S11’s more grown up askIng if is Dad still making money for us, your explanation, and S10’s shock at Dad’s untrusting attitude towards you, were also good. These questions will come at you sideways, they are what is important to them, at that moment. You did very well.
The boys wondering about Halloween and Christmas, I think are good indicator they are processing things fine. They are looking forward to the events / holiday, and realize that things have and are changing.
People will forget what you do for them, but they never forget how you made them feel.
That is very true for children.
Kind, patient, understanding. Your kids will continue to feel safe and secure with you, and they will open up.
How they feel towards Dad, is mostly out of your control. You can listen and be there for them. Validate and very gentle influence and guide.
A suggestion:
S11: Is dad going to help us with decorating the xmas tree this year?
Me: I'm not sure. That a really good question; I don’t know what Dad’s plans are. What do you think about that? Do you want Dad to help?
And go from there. Maybe S11 wants Dad there. Or maybe he doesn’t. And what about supper, presents, walking up early, and so on. The possible paths get numerous very quickly.
Boys are better reached intellectually. The best seems to be physically actually, if you rip around with them, get their muscles working, and blood flowing, the inherent barriers come down. Visual this, me and S19, sitting at the base of the tree we just fell, cut up, and loaded into the truck. Hot, sweaty, exhausted. I ask what he thinks about OM and Mom. He is too tired to keep it in check, so it is easier to just blurt it all out.
However, intellectually is more accessible than an exhausting physical work out. Asking how boys think about something, rather than what they feel about it, usually garners a better conversation. Their feeling will come out, just not by the direct approach.
“What do think about Dad coming over for Christmas?” vs “How do you feel about Dad coming over at Christmas?”
The latter will get a shrug and a whatever; for it is the truth, their feelings. The first brings in the logistics of it all. The problem solving, where we would all sit, how things would go down, and so on. Boys get inspired solving problems. Boys vs girls.
If I was speaking to my daughter, the second version would be the one I would use. I would need to use. Most of her things in life are “I feel ____”, while the boys are “I think ____”. Our recent office chair shopping (if you are reading along on my thread). D18: I feel this is good chair. S19: This is a good solid chair, with plenty of adjustments, and it is on sale.
Same chair.
Just a few ideas for you to consider.
You are doing really well. I’m proud of you. This is no easy thing to open one’s self up too for explanation. Your kids have one fine Mom!
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
