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kml #2904247 09/21/20 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DnJ
I see this interaction differently. You sought, and gave opportunity for H to be open and honest. Of course you received the non-answer behaviour you suspected (expected ?) you would.


Yes, this is right. I even said to him: this is your opportunity to come clean and not live a lie any longer! Wouldn't that feel better than what we are living right now? There are so many lies, mistrust and roadblocks between us that it is making co-parenting really challenging. Don't you also want to join me in clearing the path to being more amicable coparents?

But I also know that admission to another woman brings his whole house of cards tumbling down. He is no better than his father, whom he doesn't aspire to. It means that all the things he has told me about the reasons he is leaving don't hold water any longer. That to our large community and family he is the f*** up who left an amazing wife and four kids in pursuit of his selfishness. He cares too much what other people think-- he couldn't live this one down. The close friends who know that he has had an EA, he no longer talks to. And I would bet a million dollars that he has told no one about his dalliance.

Originally Posted by DnJ
You did not get permission from H with this interaction. You got permission from you. Permission to move forward and let go. It was never his permission you were seeking - it was your’s.


This made me cry. You are so right, D. It was, and always has been, my own permission I was seeking. But spending so long in the slog of 'what can I do to fix this? How can I better myself and not rock the boat?' has allowed me to dismantle my own knowing.

Originally Posted by DnJ
A few thoughts:

Why is your stand contingent upon what H feels? His feelings flit and reinforce quickly; they are cranked to 11. It is never a good idea to make decision based upon your feelings, it is way worse to base them upon his.

Why do you see this as either/or? Why do you see these as separate? Both are true and both are false. His feelings change constantly. Look to your beliefs for guidance, not H.

Yes, H is trying to get you to do the heavy lifting. To take the bait and get mad. He will push your buttons, hoping you will do what he “feels” will make him feel better but he cannot yet do from guilt or shame or whatever. The less pressure from you, the more time for him to reflect and hopefully work through “his” issues.

His issues and all the talking shots at you are from his inner turmoil and his unrealized past and it’s affect upon him. It’s MLC. It’s a messy process. It’s a destructive process.

Let go and seek your beliefs. Strengthen and craft those you want and admire, and alter or discard those you don’t.

Stand for you!


I believe my next steps are to put that NC boundary in place to give myself the space I need for healing (and NC for me should really be called 'dim or dark' as I have to communicate about the kids and our business, both of which I feel emotionally capable of). But right now I am not sure what I am standing for. Can you help me understand what it means to be standing for me? Because in this place I am in right now, standing for me looks like cutting all ties with H, moving on with my life, being a killer single mama to my treasures and aiming for the bright future I believe I have ahead of me.

Originally Posted by kml
Looking at his list, I’m gonna bet you five dollars right now that he has had an OW from the start of this.


I know the OW has had a hand in this from the beginning. Probably for at least a couple of years.

But then I question myself about the MLC vs is this just an exit affair? I mean the woman also has 4 kids, lives across the country and is hiding it from her H. I don't know how they could really make it work long term because there is no way the kids and I are moving and we already have our feet on two continents (in addition to grandparents in Canada and Mexico, which is hard enough to juggle as it is). Adding another location is ludicrous with the limited time H will be available to our children when he is not traveling for work.

Sigh. I want to be further along in this process than I am. I want to have consistently good, strong, happy days instead of a couple here and there. I don't want H to have so much power over my feelings and emotions. But I suppose that this was a big love for me. And the feelings surrounding a big love don't just disappear overnight.

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Originally Posted by Sage4
. Our journey started roughly a year ago and the reasons H is leaving our M have morphed over this time:

I had too many downfalls (heavy stepping being one of them, KML)

Lol! This just reminded me that my parting BD speech began with his displeasure of how I replace the toilet paper roll! Over or under people.....what’s the consensus?? Can you imagine...

At the time of BD we are waaayy to emotionally messed up to digest everything and weed through some of the nonsensical behaviour and words that are being said to our face. I remember early on trying to reason with him and point out all the things that didn’t make sense...that was before finding this resource and becoming “educated” on MLC.

I’m also reminded by your struggle right now of how intuitively wrong everything seems, the constant questioning (in our heads) the ah-ha moments of “it must be this...”. We don’t want them to go, But yet they are already gone. We want to let go, but still hold on to just a little bit.....

I too want to be further along, but try to remind myself of how far I’ve (We’ve) come. I also think our H’s are not allowing that right now either. They’ve dropped their bomb and now want to live a fantasy life without finalizing the exit plan details. H pops in and out when he wants, and of course you will have the tie with care for your children. When we truly let go of this alien person and hold out hope for their awakening...only then can we move further along...I think anyway....

The focus on what we can control and manage becomes the most important thing right now - OURSELVES. I’m trying to understand and be okay with the idea that some answers will come to me but some will remain unanswered ...that has to be ok or we’ll drive ourselves nuts. No?
Originally Posted by Sage4

Sigh. I want to be further along in this process than I am. I want to have consistently good, strong, happy days instead of a couple here and there. I don't want H to have so much power over my feelings and emotions. But I suppose that this was a big love for me. And the feelings surrounding a big love don't just disappear overnight.

I feel the same way. In my mind this one is a hard one to process because what you wrote above is normal, no one in a loving committed relationship can turn off emotions and flee the way our H’s have. Dnj is excellent at reworking words to help reframe a healthier way of thinking for us ...but my stab at it is:

We give them that power over us and we have to learn how to stop. It goes back to your analogy of the “boss” - we let people know how they can treat us and if we’re there to be walked over then that’s what they’ll continue to do. This is where boundaries come in - to help take back some of the “power” and then with it our emotions and feelings.

But then comes “big love” - I couldn’t agree more. Our marriages weren’t built in a day, a week, a month or even a year. Therefore, I still feel the path we are choosing to travel has to be “what it is”. That means good days, bad days, spewing, disagreements, hope, love, confusion, anger, fear, and of course walking loudly and putting the toilet paper on the holder wrong!!!! Lol!

We’ve got this Sage - through the ups and downs, good and bad. Sorry for the ramble on your page but I wanted to let you know you’ve got friends feeling the same way, wondering the same things and walking the same path...sometimes at a snails pace..and I’m trying to be okay with that pace...‘cause just maybe we’ll get to see and enjoy the beautiful things a little longer.

(((Sage)))

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Hi

My version of standing is something like this

When I got to this site and for the first 2 years, I had no where to go

Standing gave me time...like 2 years time..to see if H would turn back

to see if I had a chance to save my M
to practice new skills with H
To be there for him

I was cordial and kind
detached when I could

I took this time to to heal me
To review the M and all the mistakes

to raise my school age children

to make sure I had enough financial means to raise them and still be an available mom

To get to therapy weekly or biweekly to grieve and deal with all the pain D brings

to deal with the D and the L and the negotiations

to GAL, make some new friends, read, exercise, grieve and change
as I look back it was a great time of growth for me

so standing can mean many things
We can stand for our M...for a time..or for longer
This site will support you in your individual choice
Everyone gets to choose for themselves


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
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Sage,

I'll write more later but just wanted you to know that I *also* walked too heavily. For real. I don't know why, but it really makes me laugh about these crazy men. It is like they imagined these light-footed Disney princesses who swept around and magically took care of all their needs and were constantly interested in hearing more, more, more about the amazing and brilliant things our Hs were up to. And of course were always DTF. Then somehow they hear us walking around the house and that heavy tread is what bursts the whole bubble. It is so interesting to me that this makes the top ten list of why we aren't good partners.

xx M


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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May, I can't wait to hear more from you as well as an update on your situation!

OMG, another person who walks too heavily. What are the actual odds that there are some many of us on the same board? These men. FMR.

I had a big internal laugh last week when someone asked me if I am a dancer. When I said no and asked why, they said 'your posture is so perfect and you're SO LIGHTFOOTED. You move like a cartoon Disney princess'. Bwahaha.

But also, can we truly say 'grasping at straws'? At the time I took it so personally. But now I just realize what a fool I was to believe such nonsense. More tiptoeing ensued, both literally and figuratively, after that comment though.

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Lolol there’s three of us!

My ex also accused me of teaching our daughter to walk too heavy! Now - IF I had an unusually heavy gait (I do not - I asked around!) and then my daughter did too, why would you assume I TAUGHT that, instead of it being genetic???

But really it shows that we were not bad spouses, if that was all they could come up with!

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I was told that "sometimes" when I complimented her that I didn't sound sincere.

And since OM is a big sports fan she also complained that I didn't like sitting on the couch and watching hockey all the time but rather was either reading quietly or puttering around the house.


On BD
H52, W50
T27, M26
S21, D23
BD-9-Mar-16
D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18
I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good.
But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
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I’m reminded of a woman here once whose husband told her she was “too fat”. She was 5’8” and 125 lbs!

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Hello Sage

Originally Posted by Sage4
I want to be further along in this process than I am. I want to have consistently good, strong, happy days instead of a couple here and there. I don't want H to have so much power over my feelings and emotions. But I suppose that this was a big love for me. And the feelings surrounding a big love don't just disappear overnight.

Kindly is right. We give our spouse that power over us, and we can take it back.

Detachment, indifference, and letting go.

The underlying truth is H has no power over you. None. You have all the power, always have, and you are allowing H’s behaviour to influence you.

You control you. Your can directly control your thoughts, actions, and reactions. Through these you can influence your emotions and beliefs. Thought and physical action are powerful influences that can affect desired changes and stop reinforcing of emotions.

Big love is much more than feelings. And yes, it does not disappear quickly.

However, do not mix H’s influence and your feeling due to big love. “But I suppose that this was a big love for me” is reinforcing that “power” over you. You are telling yourself a reason for allowing H’s influence/power to persist. And your mind is listening.

Start with the easier part. This was a big love. In truth you aren’t looking to rid yourself of those feelings, right? It’s ok, you are seeking compassion and empathy. Accept that you can love H and let him go. Big sincere love may last a lifetime; see it for what it is.

Indifference will mute those loving feelings for a while. From my experience they return. So...

Do not tie that love, or the supposed requisite disappearance of it, to taking back your emotional power. These are two separate things.

Once you accept that you can let H go, you start taking back your power. And those good, strong, happy days start to become much more consistent.

Originally Posted by Sage4
But right now I am not sure what I am standing for. Can you help me understand what it means to be standing for me? Because in this place I am in right now, standing for me looks like cutting all ties with H, moving on with my life, being a killer single mama to my treasures and aiming for the bright future I believe I have ahead of me.

Indifference causes our stand to waiver. At first our standing is based upon feelings and fear. Indifference lessens the very feelings of why we “feel” to stand. Look to your beliefs.

Standing for me. Standing really starts once we are healed enough to stand down. To stand for our marriage, our spouse, our relationship will not find that strong purchase. You stand for you and your beliefs. And this takes time to figure out.

There is a period of limbo and indifference. It is somewhat purgatory-like and seemly endless. However, there is something beyond limbo. Stay the course and discover you in that future. That is standing for you.

Right now, it seems like you should cut all ties and move on with your life. Or do you mean, let go of H, give him to God, and move forward living a good life? The latter begets a strength and a stand.

Yes, be an awesome Mother and live a bright future.

Standing for you, is living those values and beliefs.

Standing for you is a personal thing and means different to different people. Until one is completely sure they are ready to stand down - stand.

For me. For the first while, standing is the default. I was too broken and hurt to do anything else. Eventually I healed enough that I could stand down. I chose not too. I chose to stand for me. To live my convictions. To be compassionate. To stand and find forgiveness and acceptance. For both W and me.

Standing is forsaking another special relationship. Standing for you, strengthens the relationship with yourself, with your kids, with God.

Originally Posted by Sage4
...being a killer single mama to my treasures and aiming for the bright future I believe I have ahead of me.

Standing for you, doesn’t get much better summarized than what you said.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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I’ve been reading some new and old posts over the past week. I wish I’d read some of these a lot earlier on in the separation.
I apologise for my abreviations, I will try my best.

I also hope this is in the right thread, I’m new to this forum thing.

My story so far, about 6-8 weeks ago my w (33F) told me she is unhappy.

We’ve been together 9 years and M almost 5 of those and we have a 3 yr old S together. In my eyes it has always been a great time together, there has never been any violence or abuse, almost no arguments.

Our time as parents did not begin well, I was diagnosed with a brain tumour 5 weeks after our S was born. I had it removed 3 months later. I am now tumour free, this would have put a strain on our MR.

Me (41M) can’t understand why. First she said that the joy had gone from us.
I will say this year I personally be a lot busier and stressed at work and I admit that our QT and SL has not been the same.

After our recent COVID lockdown quarantine she has been going out with friends a lot more. All this group of friends are single.
She has started drinking more, buying new clothes that she would’ve worn in her 20s.
She also has been very distant with her family and friends.

We tried to talk about things and both went to seperate therapy sessions.
We went to one therapy session together but she wasn’t very open to going to more.

I begrudgingly agreed to seperate as I didn’t think they workout, and take turn about for a week living in our family home separately with our S for consistency.
Naturally I did all the “usual small amount of begging, sending flowers etc.”

Around 4 weeks into the separation my W told me ILYBNILWY. And that there is no chance of reconciliation.
She has it in her mind to completely seperate and sell our family home. She has also started to purchase items for her new apartment.
I have a feeling she still cares, she messages me occasionally and messages to family about birthdays.

I recently had minor surgery and she offered and followed through with taking me to hospital.
It feels like there are so many mixed signals but it feels like she has also made up her mind to leave.

We are in contact via texting, mainly about our S.

Next week we are going to seperate our finances and organise a a formal separation agreement.

Here to learn more also, is my sitch a break up or MLC or WAW?

I really don’t know where I stand. crazy

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