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Hi May,

Just returned from a trip and caught up on your situation. I'm glad he blocked her on all channels so you can go on this vacation with a clear conscience! You'll know soon if this is a temporary thing. Whatever happens long-term, I hope the next few weeks are great for you and your kids.

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Thanks guys... I’m having a really hard time on this trip. Not because I am worried he is back in touch with her, but because I am overwhelmed with anger towards him for a million different aspects of the A. It is swamping me. I think I have also been priming myself to look for the bad in him and so that is what is jumping out at me. He is just being his usual self on this trip— not jerky, not going overboard on being nice (which I think he had been doing)— and I think I need the especially nice in order for me to want to even look him in the eyes. I’m just so furious with him for having done this and for not being abjectly sorry. And he is not handling my anger very well. I am blowing up at the smallest things and I see him trying to make small repairs and I just can’t even acknowledge them unless he is fully 100 percent apologetic. Which I know isn’t right or fair in the long run but I can’t help it. I keep making snarky comments about him being a lying $hitbag. I totally blew up at him tonight, told him what a horrible excuse for a human being he is, liar, f**kwit, etc etc. ugh. I don’t know what to do. I am finding it impossible to stay in the moment. And when I do, he is like “I don’t get it, an hour ago you were totally happy and all I did was make dinner and then you were mad.” Which is so frustrating because I feel like he should be grateful for every moment I’m not ripping him a new one right now, rather than upset that I’m not happily tootling along to his happy family vacation narrative. Help.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
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9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Wow... you are going through a lot emotions.

Do you think its helping? Being snippy? Oh, don't misread me as you have every right to feel the way you do. This has been a long, hard situation.

To me it comes across as a push... if he is constantly being pushed from you where does he go?

I respect your boundary in regards to the trip but if you can't reframe your thinking... "that this trip will be good for all and be filled with lots of positive connections " then isn't it due to fail before it begins?

Maybe you should picture this trip as dipping your toe in the shallow end of the pool and not diving off the board into the deep end.

What are you hoping that happens when you are snippy with him? That he will suddenly stop at nothing to appease you and make you feel better? Perhaps that's not the best way to communicate that? Rather than being snippy could you change your reply to "I really would like some space right now".... "I would really like to feel that I'm your top priority"... "I would love more input on this".

Hang in there and don't place all this pressure that you have to figure it all out before X.

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Originally Posted by may22
Thanks guys... I’m having a really hard time on this trip. Not because I am worried he is back in touch with her, but because I am overwhelmed with anger towards him for a million different aspects of the A. It is swamping me. I think I have also been priming myself to look for the bad in him and so that is what is jumping out at me. He is just being his usual self on this trip— not jerky, not going overboard on being nice (which I think he had been doing)— and I think I need the especially nice in order for me to want to even look him in the eyes. I’m just so furious with him for having done this and for not being abjectly sorry. And he is not handling my anger very well. I am blowing up at the smallest things and I see him trying to make small repairs and I just can’t even acknowledge them unless he is fully 100 percent apologetic. Which I know isn’t right or fair in the long run but I can’t help it. I keep making snarky comments about him being a lying $hitbag. I totally blew up at him tonight, told him what a horrible excuse for a human being he is, liar, f**kwit, etc etc. ugh. I don’t know what to do. I am finding it impossible to stay in the moment. And when I do, he is like “I don’t get it, an hour ago you were totally happy and all I did was make dinner and then you were mad.” Which is so frustrating because I feel like he should be grateful for every moment I’m not ripping him a new one right now, rather than upset that I’m not happily tootling along to his happy family vacation narrative. Help.



May, being betrayed by a spouse is one of the most emotionally difficult things one can go through. You marry for life with the intent of a bind and closeness with each other that is unique from all other relationships in your life. And when that is broken and shattered, it can be extremely difficult to get over. Which is why piercing and reconcilation are so difficult.

Are give yourself a break. You didn't deserve what he did and you certainly can't just snap your fingers and be over it. I'm fact, one day you may decide you can't get past it and ever trust him again. But guess what, you get to decide that! It's better than being the one stuck and begging for scraps from a lying cheater.

Respect yourself enough to not settle for staying with him. Make sure it is something you really want and can do.


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Originally Posted by may22
Thanks guys... I’m having a really hard time on this trip. Not because I am worried he is back in touch with her, but because I am overwhelmed with anger towards him for a million different aspects of the A. It is swamping me. I think I have also been priming myself to look for the bad in him and so that is what is jumping out at me. He is just being his usual self on this trip— not jerky, not going overboard on being nice (which I think he had been doing)— and I think I need the especially nice in order for me to want to even look him in the eyes. I’m just so furious with him for having done this and for not being abjectly sorry. And he is not handling my anger very well. I am blowing up at the smallest things and I see him trying to make small repairs and I just can’t even acknowledge them unless he is fully 100 percent apologetic. Which I know isn’t right or fair in the long run but I can’t help it. I keep making snarky comments about him being a lying $hitbag. I totally blew up at him tonight, told him what a horrible excuse for a human being he is, liar, f**kwit, etc etc. ugh. I don’t know what to do. I am finding it impossible to stay in the moment. And when I do, he is like “I don’t get it, an hour ago you were totally happy and all I did was make dinner and then you were mad.” Which is so frustrating because I feel like he should be grateful for every moment I’m not ripping him a new one right now, rather than upset that I’m not happily tootling along to his happy family vacation narrative. Help.



Aw, May. It's totally understandable to feel this way - not having that 100% full encompassing apology is tough, because you want him to acknowledge just how bad you felt in every way, and how much that affected you. For me, it made me feel not seen or understood without that, and I am sure in a family vacation setting that is at the top level fun, it can create some real internal dissonance (like hey if you valued your family so much and have soooo much fun with them, then why did you actively sh!t on it for 2 years in secret). I think him not acknowledging your anger to the degree you'd like him to is part of his idyllic narrative of what is going on and how it can be smoothed over, and that isn't fair to you. To him, all he did was make dinner and then you were mad - to you, he is ignoring a whole lot of context. That all sounds like a tough spot - idk if it's better for you to talk to him about it and say what you need or not. I know you guys have had a lot of talks. I applaud you for trying to be in the moment - I am sure that is super hard right now. It's hard to enjoy the parts of the sandwich that don't have sh!t in it, because you know that the sandwich has been ~compromised. Would it help you to write out a mean angry letter and then throw it away? Sometimes that works for me.

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May, I think you might be experiencing some cognitive dissonance. Reconciliation requires both acceptance and denial. Acceptance that your spouse is a lying cheater and denial that he very likely could hurt you again. Your mind is struggling to reconcile (so to speak) these two things. You've reached acceptance and are striving for denial, but your mind is fighting against it in order to keep you safe. The primitive, instinctual, emotional part is reminding you that he harmed you and could do it again. The rational, realistic, moral part does not like this reminder because it's trying to maintain the state of denial. Thus, cognitive dissonance which is expressed as anger. The same mechanism that cause our wayward spouses to spew at us, in fact.


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I think for reconciliation and piecing to happen, both parties need to be ready for it. The wayward partner needs to show full remorse and be willing to do what it takes to repair the relationship. The LBS needs to have digested their entirely appropriate anger, have done the personal work to know that they are fine on their own, and be ready to make a free choice to curiously see if piecing can happen. I think this takes a long time. I know for myself, I wasn't past the anger and resentment and ready to piece. I suspect, May, the same is happening here. Your H hasn't done the work, and you're probably not at the stage where you have digested your extremely appropriate anger and, I don't think, you are making a free choice to explore with this man whether a new marriage is possible because you never truly let go of him.

I struggle with anger too, and I am sure part of my own troubles is that it has curdled into a defensiveness and contempt so deep that a true vulnerability with my H is not really possible. This can look like detachment (and it might be a step in the process of detachment) but is not the end of the story.

I don't think you can restore your marriage until you let go of it and hold on to yourself and your own anger. Anger tells you what you need. But it doesn't speak clearly and it takes a while to listen to it.

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The only thing I'm going to add here my dear May, is this is the anger I've been very worried about. It is all incredibly valid and he is entirely deserving of any wrath directed at him. My concern as it has been is you haven't really sat in that anger and digested it all. Nor have you found an appropriate outlet for the irrational part of the anger. And my biggest fear for you, is you haven't yet separated out the anger just directed toward H and the anger you have at yourself. For feeling stupid. For being taken for a ride. For being tricked and not figuring it out sooner. For ever loving or marrying this man. For wasting time and energy on him and the marriage. I know it's there.

I feel instep with all the above comments the only thing I'd have to say is if you think you can break down this anger quickly and on your own go ahead carve out time for a conversation with H, but if you don't think you're ready to really dig into this and sit in it and see where all of fire lies I'd strongly suggest you find a way border-lining on unhealthy to compartmentalize or you won't survive this trip. Or reconciliation. It is his job to be remorseful. It's his job to fix his mistakes. But it isn't his job to heal you from this. He can't. This isn't a you broke it, you fix it situation unfortunately. There is only so much he is capable of in the way of cooling your anger, the rest of the work, unfortunately, my dear, is on you.

I've said it before and maybe it bears repeating here. This is coming from a place as a WW. He will be all in in the MR and the family long before you will be. He will be very much in love with you before you will be with him. He will have put all of this behind him long before you have. It will take you years to heal completely from this. But at a certain point in this process it's no longer on him to carry that burden with you. Not if you want the marriage. He can't make you forgive him. The only one who can do that is you. And true forgiveness allows you to let go of all that anger.

He deserves some rage, May. In fact plenty, but not all of it. I think you know that. You're going to have to decide though if you want rage directing your life. Because it won't just eat him up. Or destroy your chance for saving this thing. Left unchecked it will destroy you too.

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may, of course there is so much good advice here. I’m sorry you find yourself going through this. This trip has been looming, and there were so many emotions leading up to it, so much going on in your head—even the job stuff is a lot to process—I guess I’m just saying don’t be too mad at yourself. Can you do a phone session with your IC? Can your H give you some space to work through some things on your own now? Can he understand that there is work you have to do together (and work that needs the support of MC) and work that you also need to continue do for yourself, by yourself? ((May))


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KC, Steve, SamCal, Scout, Alison, WF, Cardinal... thank you, truly. It is such an amazing feeling to have the support of all of you. I was having such a hard time coping and was starting to freak out.

I really let him have it the night I typed that post (in the dark, in bed, from my phone... I really just needed to tell someone where my head was). I think I got a lot of it out. It was bad, though. I pushed and pushed and was meaner and meaner and he kept his cool for most of it, but I didn't give up until he snapped and brought up the SSM. It was awful, really-- I KNEW I could get him there and I did and then I got to additionally hammer him for being unable to take any responsibility for his own behavior.

KC, yes, what I was doing was definitely not DBing. He kept asking me why I was doing this and pushing him away. I think I was doing it explicitly TO push him away, or maybe subconsciously to see just how badly I could treat him and maybe he would walk. Ugh. It wasn't pretty. I kept saying this was a bad idea, he should leave, I didn't want to live my life with him as things were, etc.

I feel like we are-- or at least I am-- in Gottman's negative feedback loop, where the tiniest thing sets me off. It was weird in that I could recognize his repair attempts after I would snap at the tiniest things and he would make these repair attempts and they simply weren't good enough. I ignored them and then felt badly that I was doing that but couldn't help it. I think we need to build up more positivity but I was having a hard time doing that. (Alison, I was meaning to write this on your thread but maybe I'll just say it here-- I think that might be something in your R too, where you're both stuck in a cycle of seeing the bad. Back when I first read all these books this was something I really focused on-- we were totally stuck in a negative cycle-- and I made a conscious effort to respond to his small bids and be positive, look him in the eyes when he said something, smile, whatever. Just small little things like paying attention. It made a HUGE difference, just me doing that, as he mirrored it and we got into a really positive place in the day-to-day. It is strange to have lost that when we went through all the crisis of the active A after that and it was still basically maintained until now. Anyway, I don't know if you've read his books or if you're in a place where you still want more ideas, but a lot of what I was thinking was along those lines, Gottman's sliding doors analogy and building up the tiny positive interactions.)

SamCal, an angry letter is a good idea. The first few days of the trip we did a lot of hiking and as I was walking my mantras were awful things about H and AP, just repeating them over and over in my mind. I was thinking that saying them to myself would help get it out but I don't think it really did. Something more physical like throwing it away would be better, I think.

Scout, I think there is a good amount of cognitive dissonance going on with me that I'm just starting to recognize. My IC pointed it out a couple of weeks ago. And I do feel like the anger and angry behaviors directed at him felt like how he treated me in his alien phase-- being a duck as much as possible to provoke a response in me so that he could justify his behavior.

Steve, Alison, I think I'm in this weird place where I thought this was what I wanted and now I'm just looking at the $hit path in front of me and really not sure it is a good idea. I got pretty revved up into the I WANT OUT mode and then he didn't leave. Then I spent a little time thinking about the other path, the children, all that, and that path still looks worse then the cr@p one I'm on right now.

Cardinal, the IC wanted two weeks without IC as she felt having a third party in the mix-- her-- right now was not a great idea. But, if I can't process this anger alone I think I'll need her help.

Wayfinder... I was thinking about your posts about my anger as it was happening. There she is. And he still has anger for the SSM, though I think it is complicated for him by the fact he's used it as an excuse for his own behavior. I don't know that he can appropriately address that anger until he can separate it from his own actions in embarking on the A.

My own anger towards myself... it is a real thing and I haven't really delved into it. You're right that it is all mixed up with my anger towards him. I think a lot of what I'm going through right now is that this is the first big trip we've taken-- more than a weekend or camping or whatever-- since BD, so everyone keeps mentioning some of our previous trips and several took place while he was carrying on the A, and I didn't know. I do feel like he has told me too much stuff about his feelings for AP, also. (I yelled at him for this a LOT the other night, that the damage he did by insisting I understand his FEELINGS will take a long, long time to get over, if ever.) It just colors these trips now knowing that he wasn't all in, that AP was unhappy about them, it makes me feel so angry and helpless and stupid all at once.

Anyway, the other night-- at least with my anger towards him, I got a lot of it out. I bawled my eyes out too, told him he had no idea how much he'd hurt me, I wasn't sure if I could ever love him again. I stormed off to bed, made him sleep on the sofabed in the hotel. When we got up in the morning, he came and hugged me for a really long time and said he was sorry over and over.

Between letting it all out and that, I have felt waaaaay better. We had an amazing day yesterday and he is suggesting changing plans for this next week to add things that I know wouldn't be his first choice but he knows I'd really love. (He'd been the one to totally plan this trip-- I basically ignored it since I didn't think it was going to actually happen.) I do feel much calmer and in the moment. Hopefully I can maintain this.

Thanks, you guys. You mean a lot to me.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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