Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 11 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
Congrats on the job!

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
Congratulations on the job!

I think you handled the situation well. You've given him plenty to think about. As for the insurance, if you are the main driver of the car, then pay it. As for the registration, I wouldn't take that on until he has signed the car ownership over to you and you have a new registration/title for it in your name.

He thinks he is king of the kingdom and going to dictate to you what you will or will not get. Wait until he discovers you have a job and don't need to rely on him for everything.

Giving him options when it comes to the TV was great. Use that tactic whenever you can.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 180
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 180

Hi Cardinal!

So happy for you with the new job! Way to go! Your analysis is correct...stay for now see where things go...one day at a time focusing on you.

You did really well during the “talk”. I agree with job’s feedback above about the car and desk situation. Always remember it’s your house too...he doesn’t get to make you feel uncomfortable...trust me I know easier said than done with H in our face, us trying to detach and avoid any spew sessions...right? Lol It’s definitely a matter of finding a balance.
Originally Posted by cardinal
My instinct was to bring up this supposed D again, or to say, again, when is work on this supposed agreement starting? To again suggest mediation. But that feels like me pushing again and getting no results in return--I pushed for financial docs 6 weeks ago, and, no surprise, still have not gotten any. Should I be proactively doing anything else here? I have a retainer ready to sign as soon as I decide I need a L. I'm still holding out hope that H will decide to leave on his own. I'm not sure if getting served papers would push me to retain L right away or if it would depend on what else was happening. I think my friends are hoping I would just file, but I'm not quite there yet.

I can only compare to my situation, and I have firmly decided I will not “help” him make any decisions or move things along when it comes to “his” D. This is not “my” D...I don’t have to own it therefore I choose to comply with any legal Movement when I have to but not push anything forward. In my ‘sitch I feel like his L is now using scare tactics that I will do everything in my power to ignore and not let the fear creep back in.

You get to choose what you want to do and unfortunately there’s no handbook on this...as similar as our situations are the people are all so different (I think anyway lol!)... my point being do what feels right for you and your values.

As for bringing up anything like “the supposed D” For example, I wouldn’t. I constantly struggle with this too. I think what happens with me is that the rational, sane thinking mind wants progress, forward movement, understanding of some sort..but MLC doesn’t work that way. I just reached out for advice on communication with H too. I’m learning that 9 if not 10 times out of 10 silence is golden. Trying to communicate with my H right now only brings more conflict he doesn’t want to hear it and can’t understand any of it anyway.

You did well Cardinal...keep doing you. Can’t wait to hear more about the new job.
(((Cardinal)))

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
here's what i've learned and had reinforced over this summer: i do not have to attend every fight I am invited to. I still have not responded to OW's two emails. I will not be responding to them at any point in the future. By not responding I am saving myself, and by extension, my son, probably another 20 years of grief and misery.

YOU get to decide what you want to participate in moving forward. Decide what is in your own best interests and proceed from there. It is ok to not answer, to walk away, to say, "thank you for your perspective. I will need to think about that and get back to you" or any other response that keeps you in control of your own life with as much peace as possible.

Congrats on the job. You can also point out in a divorce negotiation that you will need ramp up time. Just a thought.

Chickens are now starting to mildly bump chests and chase or crowd each other a little bit. They have more than plenty of room, but are going through their bratty teen years I guess as more facial changes emerge. I've done more work on the coop and run, from a decorative perspective, and am enjoying reading lisa steele's blog posts. Wish I could send you photos.

I'm proud of how you are handling yourself and your sitch. You are a woman of dignity and courage. xoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 549
Likes: 4
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 549
Likes: 4
Thank you for sharing your perspectives, everyone, for the encouragement and congrats! It's starting to sink in that I will no longer be financially dependent on H, and that is helping me feel stronger. It's also sinking in that I will be staying here for a while, and I think I'm starting to accept that I won't be making any big changes just yet. The timing of the offer is starting to feel more and more meant-to-be in many respects, and the team I will be working with has been very flexible and supportive in my starting at reduced hours since I was already contracted to teach this fall. I got my current minimum wage job just before BD, almost on a whim, and it has provided me with much-needed escape and at least some financial independence since BD. Now it feels like this new job comes as I'm entering a new phase post-BD. Rather than question a million things or see it as a block to my leaving, I'm going to look at it as an opportunity absolutely meant for me to take right now, one meant to lead me to whatever is next.

Originally Posted by may22
You being stepped on or standing up for yourself-- to me, it seems like a perspective thing. if you know you're doing the right thing for yourself, you're doing the right thing and standing up for yourself, even if you did that just by saying nothing. If he thinks he got to squash you but you aren't squashed... who cares what he thinks? You know the truth and can be secure in the knowledge that you're doing the right thing for yourself and for the right reasons. Him feeling smug for getting one over you is no different from him thinking all the other ridiculous things he's been thinking.


This is so true, may--the last line really makes sense! Your post really helped me. I'm still reading along with your thread and rooting for you, always, even if I haven't had much to add lately.

Originally Posted by job
Giving him options when it comes to the TV was great. Use that tactic whenever you can.


Thanks for your advice, job! I am about to tell him he can move it to his room--I really don't care if the TV is "his," and if it benefits me now by giving me another option for WFH, why not? I am thinking letting go of whatever doesn't matter to me property-wise is a good idea in general, as maybe it will give me more leverage later on the things that do matter. Plus, I stay aligned with my values, in not allowing possessions create more conflict.

I do feel like I'm dealing with a toddler sometimes, and not a teenager--the pattern has been that H says, "Well, X *should* be mine, because I paid for it!" or whatever--because his story has become that I was on vacation for the entire marriage while he made all the money. He doesn't take any responsibility for the life we created together--as usual, anything he didn't speak up about or was fine with until BD is now my fault. He changed the password on our Alexa which I'd been using, and I asked him if I could continue to use it while we were both living here (again, not really caring if he ended up with it in the end or not--I just wanted access to the lists I had already made). He immediately escalated and said, "That should be mine, because my uncle gave it to *me* for Christmas!" I just said, I'm not planning on fighting you for it; I'm just wondering if I can continue to use it for the time being." He then said he hasn't used it for months and months and even deleted the app off his phone, which I pretty much figured. He's not even using it, but his default stance is to say, MINE! Is that MLC talking or just someone who is holding onto control in any way he can?

The gift of time has definitely been helpful in that I feel like I've let go of the need to spend energy or money trying to get any material object in the end. I hope that will serve me well in this process, and allow me to gain in other ways, and to hold on to what does matter.

I'm also realizing H is repeating patterns he repeated throughout our M, like not being open to discussion. If he every did speak up about something he wanted to do or do differently from what I was proposing, I would say, well, let's talk about it, or I would say, okay, let's do what you want to do, but he would always get short and moody and immediately say, "Never mind! Just do what you want to do! It's fine!" If I tried to choose what he wanted to do after that, he would REFUSE. If I tried to talk about what he wanted, he would say, "It's over! Drop it! I don't care anymore." He would assure me that he really didn't care, he wasn't even thinking about it.

This is the same thing he's doing now. He's not capable of having a discussion about an agreement or splitting things up. All he can do is, for once, I imagine he feels, assert what he wants and tell me what I will or will not get/do. He either gets what he wants, or if I question it, like in the case of moving the TV, says immediately, "I don't care! Leave it!" so that his narrative becomes about his, once again, giving in to me or giving up something so that I can have it.

Because of IC, because of this board, I'm now able to step back and recognize that this is all about him. I can see that he hasn't worked to really recognize or change any of his patterns. This is why a D won't automatically bring him peace and happiness. He's still going to be full of resentment and the same pattern is going to repeat in other areas of his life—it started with his mother and repeated with me. But here I am, still hoping that he will look at himself more deeply one day and see that all of this wasn't 100% my fault. I do still feel that I need to be out of his life completely before he would ever be open to the possibility of seeing things differently.

Funny enough, he's been in a good mood since our "talk." No wonder--he's looking forward to more money and I didn't have to protest anything so, yes, job, he still gets to play king of the castle. Or it's just another cycle of his moods. I have to keep in mind it's never really a result of anything I do or don't do, even if it seems that way. I really need to keep working on seeing his tantrums or moods as a result of decisions he is making, and not a reflection on how I handled an interaction with him.

Also, this:
Originally Posted by Kindly
I’m learning that 9 if not 10 times out of 10 silence is golden. Trying to communicate with my H right now only brings more conflict he doesn’t want to hear it and can’t understand any of it anyway.

Last edited by cardinal; 09/09/20 03:53 PM.

T: 16 M:10
BD 6/2019
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
Quote
I have to keep in mind it's never really a result of anything I do or don't do, even if it seems that way. I really need to keep working on seeing his tantrums or moods as a result of decisions he is making, and not a reflection on how I handled an interaction with him.


I dubbed this the "Itchy Butt Syndrome". One day in the middle of crisis my ex was being really irritable. I spent the day dancing around, trying to soothe him, mindreading what I might have said or done to set him off. At the end of the day he mentioned that he had an itchy rash on his butt that had been bothering him all day!

Last edited by kml; 09/09/20 04:31 PM.
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 549
Likes: 4
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 549
Likes: 4
I love that, kml, perfect name!

After I gave the okay to move the TV this morning, I came home to find H telling me how he'd gotten it set up in his room and cleaned under the console where it used to be. He's moving the remaining components neither of us are using right now out to the garage so I can have room for a desk in the living room if I want. He's all in this super accommodating great mood and is cleaning up his room, which has been a dump for the last year, organizing stuff with new cheap shelves, etc. It's depressing me because I just think he's that much happier in his little room and will never leave. I mean, he was already mostly holed up in there, but now he's got a TV... I don't want us to be friendly roommates at this point. A few months ago I probably would have been happy he was being so friendly and "normal," but at this point it doesn't feel genuine at all, because I know tomorrow he could be spewing about how I don't deserve to be here or all of this is my fault, etc etc. It just feels fake. Plus, I feel like I've been in this situation so long, I lose sight of the fact that this is not okay--he's been dating someone and wanting a D and hasn't filed the D. He's not being kind to me whether he is friendly in the moment or not, because that kindness would entail moving out, or divorcing me before he started dating, or...

Also left from the console--a box of letters that has many of the letters I wrote him and letters he wrote me when we were dating and in our early M, plus photos of us from college/dating and after. At what point do I need to go through those? I'd like to give him the letters I wrote him and some of the photos--whether he keeps them or not is not my problem. But it just seems so wrong to leave a M and all those real, concrete artifacts of it behind, even if you are moving on. (Not to say he wouldn't do just that.) Is this something that I just put off until one of us is actually moving out? Same with all the photos of us still up all over the house.

Last edited by cardinal; 09/10/20 12:21 AM.

T: 16 M:10
BD 6/2019
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
He's not gonna want the letters. If they are meaningful to you keep them. Don't go through them unless you're looking for a big cry. Just put them away. At some time in the future you may want them. If you give them to him he'll throw them away or leave them behind (even though he might possibly want them in the future). No WAS on here that I can remember ever actually wanted those things at this point. Put them up in your closet out of sight for now. Take down the wedding photos if you have them and replace them with something cheery about adventures. This is a good opportunity to signal that you are dropping the rope, moving forward. It may unsettle him to see you're not pining away, and that can be good. You're right to remind yourself he's seeing an OW right now.

I still have letters my ex wrote me when we were dating - I haven't read them since before my divorce. They're stored up in a closet somewhere. My kids might find them interesting decades from now. Right now they'd still be an open wound even though we've been divorced 11 years. Actually, now I'm kind of curious to read them and see if the early red flags of his narcissism are there and I just missed them?

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
K
kml Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,913
Likes: 316
Oh and as for the cheeriness about reorganizing his room? Typical MLC behavior. When my brother had his MLC and dumped his 3rd wife, he took her with him to see the new furniture he'd bought for his new singles pad! It's like their brains can't separate their excitement at their new life that they want to share with the person they are leaving behind in the old life!

BTW - if you want a tv, ask around. People upgrade their TVs so often now, you might have a friend who has an old one they could lend you or give you, or you might find a used one very cheap online.

It's good you're not attached to the material things - like the alexa nonsense. It's good to have some bargaining chips though so don't let him railroad you into giving him everything he wants.

Joined: May 2020
Posts: 363
Likes: 7
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 363
Likes: 7
Hi dear Cardinal. I have been meaning to chime in with congrats on the job offer. I see you following your intuition and allowing yourself to be guided by the universe's divine wisdom (some may call that God, but that is not my language). You are being led and you are listening; two key components to navigating your way out of this challenging season in your life. ((Cardinal))

I loved your last post on my thread, but wanted to reply here on yours because I feel like my answer is a good follow up to KML's comment about maintaining some bargaining chips. Her comment is another version of a boundary and I am interested in exploring all variations of boundaries right now. But firstly, your post on my thread:

Originally Posted by cardinal
Originally Posted by Sage4
Another helpful tidbit that I learned in that session (and have heard repeatedly since in a short period of time, so the universe is really speaking here): mentally ill people need REALLY clear boundaries. IC helped me choreograph some boundaries surrounding the spewing which I (unsurprisingly) had an opportunity to execute the following day. And it worked.


Was this you pretty much saying, "H, I will not listen to you attack me" during the last spewing?


Pretty much. I believe I said something along the lines of 'I am no longer interested in your opinion of me and will no longer listen to you say mean things to me, so I am hanging up now...' And I subsequently told my kids: 'No one is allowed to speak to me disrespectfully any longer, I will not tolerate it from any person any more.' (I can't just hang up or walk away from the kids, but there are the two versions). The verbiage is hard because you need to make this about YOU and not about H's behavior.

And on to what KML said about the 'stuff': a boundary around this may be to pick your battles but don't play all your cards at once, if that makes sense. You need to keep some bargaining chips, as she said.

And to further the boundary conversation (which you touched on in my thread); NOT having boundaries is demeaning to the other party. Why? Because if you don't have boundaries, you are essentially saying one of two things: 1) I am worthless (which reflects poorly on the other party's choice); or 2) you are powerless because you can do anything to me and I will not react, you are so beneath me/not worth my reaction/I am bigger than you. Which is the exact opposite of what we intended the other party to feel when we dimmed down, took it all on the chin and didn't state a clear boundary.

So find those boundaries, girl. It really is the most compassionate thing you can do for H (and yourself) at this point. I see you. (((Cardi)))

Page 7 of 11 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard