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Hi Pommy,

KC has a point-- he may not be focused on your appearance, but wants you to feel beautiful and confident, and is trying to support you by encouraging you here. And maybe the shopping thing is some Pretty Woman fantasy he's been harboring all these years. You never know!!

On the thing about your mom... wow. Just, wow. The stems were too long. And I realized that reading it, if it were something dumb your H had said, I would be cracking up and thinking what a dope he was, like the other day in Alison's thread she said how her H flipped his lid because a houseplant had died, maybe many months ago. But when it is your mom that says that, I realized I was actually hurt reading that for you. It makes me sad and angry in a way that these stupid H behaviors don't. Maybe I have something there to work on too... but I just wanted to say you aren't alone, it is amazing and brave that you can see that, and I really hope you can work on detaching from the toxicity of her behavior. It sounds like you did a great thing by disconnecting during your vacation, and I'm hoping you can continue to work through those issues. Are you still in IC?

I know I'm just a random stranger on the internet but I see such a caring, smart, brave, thoughtful, giving woman in you. Your mom is putting her own issues on you and they don't belong there. And your H is incredibly lucky to have you in his life. He doesn't deserve you, not the other way around. It is sounding like he knows that, but you need to know that, in your bones.

I can't help but feel like communication is really crucial for you guys... you need to be able to tell him you're sad about the EA and the trust isn't back yet and he needs to be able to hear that and accept it. I guess, equally, at some point he needs to be able to say he feels he's being pulled back into some dynamics of M1.0 and you need to be able to hear that without bringing the EA into it, eventually.

I'm guessing that a lot of that, at least theoretically, could be managed with better communication techniques and some set aside time to talk about how you're feeling in a safe place. (I would think that MC usually holds this place for couples who are piecing, and ideally can act as a guide to help you navigate the road together, and can reassure you that it is OK you're feeling the way you do, totally natural, etc. so as to defuse some of the anxiety.) And, all this takes TIME. Trust needs to be built back up and you can't expect that it will emerge fully formed like Athena from Zeus's brow. It is probably more like a baby or a plant that gets tended and nurtured and slowly grows back, ideally stronger than before.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
Joined: Aug 2019
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You are worried about falling back into the same place . He very well might fall back into those ways . You control you so therefore you do not have to fall back into anyway you do not want to .

You need nothing from him to make you feel enough . You feel enough for you and no one else .

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Kitcat, May, Caligirl thank you for your replies and sorry I have not acknowledged them. I had tried not to overthink everything and when I did attempt to write a response it just triggered more negative energies in me.

So we have had a major setback in reconciliation (10 weeks in). H had been a model example of a husband for the first 7 weeks. I did recognise that we were in a bit of a honeymoon phase and was wary of that, and had kept the brakes on a bit in terms of him moving back home. This last couple of weeks I’ve felt him distancing himself again and he has admitted he has felt very down at times, but had realised continued lockdown measure played a part in his feelings of isolation. However, I had been asking for reassurances that he still wanted to work things out as the ILY had stopped and he was showing little interest in intimacy. Twice I said I needed to hear that he wanted to be in this and twice I simply got silence or ‘ok’, with no follow up. I had asked him if he would go to MC and he agreed we should do that . We start next week. He has this weekend admitted that he is still struggling to see me as anything more than his best friend, and that he loves me deeply but doesn’t feel any kind of sexual connection with me. To him it’s been ‘just sex’. (And he said I’m the one who has initiated it, not him, which I wouldn’t say is true, but anyway). I’m so hurt by this and I feel we’ve gone full circle , back to where we were 18 months ago. The same conversations, the same tears, the same confusion.

Now for more revelations about EAP. I told H that i was struggling to let go of some things and if he had lied to me about anything then every time he looked me in the eyes for the rest of his life, he would know that he is still lying to me. He said there had been no PA, no kissing, nothing more than hugs. HOWEVER, he admitted that after we separated and went into lockdown, things between him and EAP started to develop more (but this was only a long distance thing as she lives 200 miles away). He said after 3-4 weeks he put a stop to it and broke contact because it just didn’t feel right, he had too much of a pull to me still, and he didn’t want to be in a position of starting a relationship with her, and me believing that something had been going on all along. He now says he hasn’t been in touch with her for nearly 4 months. But I am still heavily bothered by her. I asked him if he still had feelings for her and he said IDK. I honestly don’t know what is going on. He says she hasn’t contacted him. When he first came back he told me it was a friendship that had fizzled out; now it sounds like it was about to be a raging inferno and he pulled the plug.

All weekend H has been saying he wants to do the MC, he has told me several times that he wants to work things out, he wants to try, is committed to trying. He says breaking contact with EAP was his commitment to me. But right now, again, he still doesn’t feel anything sexual towards me. He says it makes him feel so depressed that he’s hurting me like this, feels there is something missing still. He says he can’t control his feelings, that depression consumes you. And that he feels unhappy. But that he also loves me so deeply and can’t imagine life without me. And he said when he came back he really genuinely felt that he wanted to grow old with me, and that we would be lovers again. Now he isn’t sure if this is possible.

I have stood for this marriage for 18 months, I’m ready to throw in the towel, even though my heart is breaking. But with MC starting in 2 days, I guess I would be foolish to not give it a go? When I think that this is about EAP I want him to leave; when I think that he is struggling with depression and genuinely does love me, I want him to stay.

I’m so frightened of going back through the pain of breakup all over again, knowing that this time it would be forever. I just feel in despair. What is going on with him? Is it common in reconciliation to be filled with doubt? Can we ever get that connection back - we were having these same conversations 18 months ago?


Last edited by Pommy99; 08/09/20 12:30 PM.

M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
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I'm certain what you are going through is 100% normal. I've about a lot of false starts in recon... picture it as you are dipping your toe in the shallow end of the pool and not jumping all in in the deep end.

Try reading The Love Path.

Also you need to be building more positive interactions that create more bonding and intimacy rather than rehashing the same old same old.

How are you with date nights?

Can you plan something you've never done before??? Go to one if those bars where you throw axes, indoor rock climbing, etc.

Recon will only work if you truly forgive your partner. So for now work on building intimacy and let the affair stuff ride a bit... it will be easier for both of you to discuss the A once you've established more intimacy.

Pull backs would be normal if he is dealing with guilt and shame and those are posing as your road blocks. Perhaps he feels the pressure of you needing all these answers from him when he may just not have them right now.

Ultimately it's up to you... do you invest further because you believe in a stronger M bond and future or are you exhausted and over it???? Again, this is your timeline so take all the time you need.

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Pommy, I have some thoughts that hit me as I read your post. In no particular order:

Has H been to his GP lately? I know that the NHS takes a different approach to tests than we do here in the US, but I wonder if he is truly clinically depressed and could use some ADs? And/or has low hormone levels? Something feels off and it doesn't necessarily feel like it all has to do with your R. I would believe the storyline that this is depression, not EAP. Until proven otherwise.

Relatedly, is he open to IC? Or will your MC work with both of you individually as well as together (as it relates to your M) so he can get comfortable speaking to a therapist one-on-one and may find that it really isn't as 'scary' as one thinks it is? Sounds like he has some work to do on himself. But MC is a great first step.

Please don't internalize everything that is happening with your R right now as a reflection of something you have or haven't done in this reconciliation process. I think that is an exercise in futility and will only make you feel worse.

Your H came back when you truly dropped the rope. What if you figuratively dropped the rope again? For your own self-worth and protection it might be helpful to pull back far enough so that you are able to collect yourself and act versus reacting to everything H says and does. I am not suggesting that anything changes in your interactions with H, or that he even knows you have dropped the rope, it is really for you, not him.

And like you tell me all the time, you don't have to make a decision about the R today. Try the MC for a few sessions and see if anything enlightening comes of it.

And finally, what can you do today or this week to take care of yourself? Is there a small pleasure you can grant yourself (a glass of wine in the garden, a walk in the countryside, a new book) everyday this week? Sometimes all it takes for me is getting dressed, brushing my hair and putting on my cool sunglasses for a trip to the grocery store (as opposed to shopping on my way home from a run in my exercise clothes). Whatever floats your boat right now, do it.

YOU WILL BE OK.

(((Pommy)))

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Hi Pommy,

I am so sorry you are on such a roller coaster. I would agree it would be worth it for him to see his GP and rule out if he needs support that way.

I know you must be exhausted emotionally, physically, mentally, and I’m so sorry. I hope you can find an activity that is just for you that can recharge your batteries. I hope you can take care of you. (((Hugs))))


me: 46 h: 49
m: 24 T: 27
DD1:20 DD2:17 DS:12
BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016
BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016
BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
Now: He is in the same house, but has filed for divorce.
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Originally Posted by KitCat
I'm certain what you are going through is 100% normal. I've about a lot of false starts in recon... picture it as you are dipping your toe in the shallow end of the pool and not jumping all in in the deep end.

Try reading The Love Path.

Also you need to be building more positive interactions that create more bonding and intimacy rather than rehashing the same old same old.

How are you with date nights?

Can you plan something you've never done before??? Go to one if those bars where you throw axes, indoor rock climbing, etc.

Recon will only work if you truly forgive your partner. So for now work on building intimacy and let the affair stuff ride a bit... it will be easier for both of you to discuss the A once you've established more intimacy.

Pull backs would be normal if he is dealing with guilt and shame and those are posing as your road blocks. Perhaps he feels the pressure of you needing all these answers from him when he may just not have them right now.

Ultimately it's up to you... do you invest further because you believe in a stronger M bond and future or are you exhausted and over it???? Again, this is your timeline so take all the time you need.

Hi KC, I feel like we are back in limbo. We already did 12 months of limbo where he saw me as his best friend but not lover. We are back where we started. I know there is guilt and shame, but the ‘best friend’ thing goes right back to the beginning. He left, but he couldn’t let me go, he came back saying he realised what was important to him (I.e. me and our marriage and family, and not his quest for passionate love). Now he is saying he feels empty and lonely and will not be intimate with me (I have gently tried and been knocked back this last week). When he first came back it was every other day - that’s not me holding a gun to his head. I don’t know how to establish more intimacy. We do stuff together, go out for dinner, walks, we’ve been working on the garden together. We sleep all night touching in some way (holding hands, arm round me etc). I just don’t understand what is going on that he loves me so deeply (his words) but is still missing something in his life. Today he has said he can’t imagine leaving me, and feels hopeful, but at other times feels hopeless about our R.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Jan 2020
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Originally Posted by Sage4
Pommy, I have some thoughts that hit me as I read your post. In no particular order:

Has H been to his GP lately? I know that the NHS takes a different approach to tests than we do here in the US, but I wonder if he is truly clinically depressed and could use some ADs? And/or has low hormone levels? Something feels off and it doesn't necessarily feel like it all has to do with your R. I would believe the storyline that this is depression, not EAP. Until proven otherwise.
he has been on ADs for about last 3 years. He says he went on them because of the state of our R. 15 months ago he started to reduce his dose and essentially halved the dose over a few months, to what was basically minimum prescribed level, and stayed on that for the next year. Since he came back he said he wanted to get off the ADs completely, so over the last few weeks has halved his dose again, because at the same time he was on some other medicines for a neck injury, which were ADs but also used to treat neuro pain. So he cut his dose on his regular meds and has now been off the really nasty ones for the neuro pain for about a month. He doesn’t want to go back on more ADs but says feels really depressed one day and happy the next. But this issue about only seeing me as his best friend and not sexually attracted has been irrespective of how many meds he’s been on!
Quote

Relatedly, is he open to IC? Or will your MC work with both of you individually as well as together (as it relates to your M) so he can get comfortable speaking to a therapist one-on-one and may find that it really isn't as 'scary' as one thinks it is? Sounds like he has some work to do on himself. But MC is a great first step.
he did have some IC but stopped - I don’t think he found the IC particularly great. I’m hoping this new MC might be an option for IC. He is also a psychosexual therapist which maybe will help H...I don’t know.

I will try and GAL more this week. I have been exercising every day, I am currently drinking wine in the garden. I am in no way detached, and I don’t know how dropping the rope will work, but I will give it some thought. I don’t feel I can try and build intimacy and drop the rope at the same time, even though I may need to protect myself emotionally.

He is all over the place again. Today he’s said he can’t imagine leaving me, that he wants to try, but then this morning he was saying he didn’t know if he should give MC a try or not, and the conversation had very much been about his confusion in wanting to be in the marriage and what is missing.

Thanks for your support Sage x


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
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Originally Posted by Oceangl
Hi Pommy,

I am so sorry you are on such a roller coaster. I would agree it would be worth it for him to see his GP and rule out if he needs support that way.

I know you must be exhausted emotionally, physically, mentally, and I’m so sorry. I hope you can find an activity that is just for you that can recharge your batteries. I hope you can take care of you. (((Hugs))))

{{{OG}}}!!!! It’s so good to hear from you. I hope you are well? Yes I am exhausted and terrified of the pain of another separation. How hard does this have to be!!


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Sep 2019
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Hi Pommy,

UGH. I'm so sorry. This back and forth is ridiculous and unfair and I think if you want to throw the towel in you are 100% OK to do so.

A few thoughts if not...

I think it could take a long time for him to "rediscover" those in-love feelings, particularly if emotionally it got a little hot and heavy and maybe even scary for him during your S with the AP. I think it is normal to take some time. I also think that possibly the regular sex when you got back together could be part of the so-called 'hysterical bonding' thing and doesn't mean it will last-- think that comes and goes and then eventually you guys will need to re-establish the long-term emotional/physical intimacy. This also happened with my H where we had a lot of sex during the recommitting time and then fairly regularly in the spring, and then he said later it didn't feel like the staring into each others eyes ML that he was looking for (and presumably that he'd had with AP). In your case if it didn't get physical the imagination could be even harder to deal with for him than the real thing. Esther Perel talks about the stolen glances, little touches being more erotic than actual sex when it is forbidden, etc... so that could be part of it. He is imagining this head over heels fantasy that no spouse could ever fulfill. He has to get past that.

I imagine this is going to be two steps forward, one step back for a long long time. My guess is that he's getting scared, feels like he is trying and it isn't happening and OMG DOES THIS MEAN HE WON'T EVER FEEL LIKE THAT AGAIN WHAT SHOULD HE DO!??!? he has got to chill and realize this is a marathon, not a sprint. (just like we do also.) I wonder if going off his ADs completely also might have something to do with it.

As you know my H made a similar decision to stay and then three months in freaked out and reached back out to AP. I think my situation has some real differences, since AP was reaching out to him too, she is unmarried and thought he was going to leave me for her, etc etc., they had had a long PA and he has a huge amount of guilt etc. that he felt like he didn't really need to face if he left me that now he gets to deal with. And my H got scared that the in love feelings didn't come back in the three months of "trying". (never mind that he was still tracking her on find my friends and as far as I can tell made no significant effort to get her out of his head.) My guess is this is going to take a lot longer than three months and your H has got to be able to hang in there for the long term and stop freaking himself out if those feelings don't just pop back up in a couple of months.

All that being said.... can you look at this as his problem, not yours? That he is the one who is having issues, not you, and he will either address them or not? I wonder if you could detach that way-- seeing this as his problem, not yours-- you are an incredible and desirable woman, he is very lucky to have you, and if he can't figure that out-- feels like that is his problem, not yours.

HUGS, Pommy. Glad you are sitting in your garden with a glass of wine. I think you can't go wrong if you continue to focus on yourself and do your very best to not let his problems affect you. Of course they do as he is your H and the father of your children, but remember... you can decide whether or not you want him. YOU are in charge here. xoxo


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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