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I've been reading this forum (welcome and personal threads) for a month or two now, and thought it was time to post my own story, which spans so far from January 2020 - July 2020, though it may be too late to save my marriage and keep our family together...

At the beginning of the year my wife started a new job. In late January my wife (35) and I (38) took a trip to Disney World with our S5 and D1 along with two other families. Overall we had a fun vacation, enjoying the parks, taking family photos, swimming in the pool with the kids, and catching up with friends. We did have an argument about car seats after arriving back in the airport and getting the car, but I was exhausted from the early morning traveling and fun but tiring week.

In the 2-3 weeks after we returned my wife started acting odd and short/angry towards me. She was cold and distant with my family at my niece's/goddaughter's Christening (she's had a wonderful relationship with them and is usually very warm), didn't sit next to me at a parent/teacher conference, and didn't do anything for me on Valentine's Day whereas I got her flowers, a card, and one of her favorite desserts.

The next day, February 15th, turned out to be "Bomb Day". My wife asked if she could take the kids to my parents' house and go out with two girlfriends to get her nails done (I had gotten sick from my daughter and was isolating myself in bed), which seemed odd with me sick, but I said "sure". When she returned home with the kids she started making dinner and I asked a question about my illness and told her about some research I did for our son’s 5th birthday party and to both she gave me angry/terse responses so I asked why she was so mad at me. She came upstairs while I was sick in bed and with the kids downstairs and said “I’m not happy. I think we may need a trial separation”.

We spoke for a few hours after the kids went to bed and the next day. She told me she’s not happy, she doesn’t feel respected, I’m too critical, too controlling…etc. She said I’ve beaten her down since S5 was born and she hasn’t been happy since we married. She said she had no energy to work on times and wouldn’t go to marriage counseling, even though she herself is a big proponent of individual counseling. I was shocked. Now, we’ve had some arguments over the years on parenting and finances (I tend to be more conservative with the kids’ diet and screen time and in spending money), but nothing I thought was outside of perfectly normal martial disagreements. There was nothing major in my mind - I don’t do drugs or abuse alcohol, I’m responsible with finances, have never so much as flirted with another women, and certainly never abused her physically (or emotionally). We both have good jobs, great kids, two houses, plenty of vacations and good times over the years, and great friends and supportive family in town.

The first week did everything DB/DR and this forum say not to do...giving her heartfelt pleads, buying her concert tickets, leaving notes of encouragement around the house, and texting her pictures of of 6th wedding anniversary getaway a few months before. I read The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman and followed The Love Dare by the Kendrick Brothers. She said I was smothering her and she was broken and needed to work on herself and not be in any relationship.

I took S5 on a ski trip weekend (without W and D1) with another family which my wife had eagerly booked for all of us just the month before, and even though I didn’t want to went on a friends ski trip/work trip for a week on of state (had been planned long in advance) because she said if I didn’t I just move into my parents’ house.

Her behavior scared me so much and I didn’t know whether I’d be asked to move out that I consulted with an attorney before my return, but when I did get back she asked if I could get pizza with the kids and we went grocery shopping and watched a movie as a family. The next day I took S5 to the local high school field to play sports and she ran the track with D1, and then we went to a kids’ birthday party together but she was irritable. I didn’t bring up relationship status for the next few weeks and neither did she – we were in limbo.

Now, I was suspicious after BD and over the next few weeks after BD tracked down phone records and snooped on text messages and it didn’t take long to find out she had started at least an Emotional Affair (EA) with her co-worker/partner at this new job/project they were working. She would go in early and/or stay late to see him, bring him lunch, and they would talk on the phone for 1/2hr every single day after work during their drive home. While I was out of town they’d talk for over an hour late at night while he hid from his wife in the bath tub or his truck in the garage. They started texting more and more to the point she would text him for 4hrs a night (8pm-after midnight) and sometimes when I was in the same room. They would talk about how great each other was at work, how they had a spark that was perfect and no one ever loved them for who they are until now, how they would never stray again, references to hooking up in the office during work hours, planning a life where kids would be running around in the yard...etc. I later found out Other Man (OM) was a few years older, married for 15 years, and had 3 young daughters.

I didn’t want to push or reveal my sources because I didn’t want to push her away or get mad at my snooping (aka controlling), and was hopeful things wouldn’t work with OM because he was married with kids, but felt the need to talk so a few weeks later had a “check point” with where she was – no change – she said she didn’t like me very much and didn’t think she would ever love me again. I asked if there was OM, without getting specific, because all her actions pointed in that direction and she flat out denied and gas-lit me. A few weeks later she was talking/texting late at night and I asked her who and she lied so I said “I know there’s another man. I KNOW.” And she denied again. Then a few days later said “I know there’s another man. His name is XXXXX. He is married and has kids.” They spoke on the phone for 2.5hrs the next day during work. Each one of those talks I said I can forgive and people get through this and so can we. She looked at me dead in the eyes without emotion and flat out denied every time.

Now, in that 2-3 months (March-April she still came to my parents’ house for St. Patrick’s Day, had me come with the family to her dad’s house for his birthday, came to my parents’ house for Easter, invited my parents over for Sunday dinner. But she was texting the other guy telling him she had to act nice to not give things away but it was eating her inside, and bragging how she was redirecting money from her paycheck, and her best friend that she was “keeping the peace”. She also scheduled herself in evening shifts to align with OM’s schedule, and so her managers/friends wouldn’t be around and they could meet up in the office, and so she would barely see me – I worked 9to5 and watched the kids in the evening and she watched the kids in the morning and worked till after midnight, so we barely saw each other except for weeks. However, She also told me she didn’t say she would never go to counseling, just that she wasn’t ready. And then that she would go to counseling but we couldn’t because of COVID, and finally we scheduled something virtually (May time frame).

She went away by herself for Mother’s Day weekend to relax, and didn’t return until Sunday afternoon - my son was crying Sunday afternoon saying “he just wanted to see mommy for Mother’s Day”. We had 3 weekly sessions of counseling with my stated goal being to save our marriage and keep our family together and her saying she wanted to communicate for the kids and didn’t know if she wanted to work on the marriage, and refusing to do any of the ‘homework assignments” the counselor gave us. I pressed the affair in a session and she denied and the counselor said if there is an affair involved Marriage Counseling (MC) will never work because an affair is a fantasy. I pressed my wife after that session referring two things her an OM discussed, so that she would really know I knew, and the next day she finally admitted to an EA and kissing, and that it was over and they were working on their marriages. My sister and I called AP’s wife a week or two later, and OM had told OM's wife her a day after my wife admitted to me (so it seemed coordinated) which also happened to be their 15th wedding anniversary, but OM's wife was putting her hand in the sand for the sake of her children and didn't want to know details and they had "verbally committed to their marriage".

Then on a Friday in late May I accidentally happened across a bag/packaging/receipt for a burner phone on the passenger seat of my wife's car and had to ask her about it. We had a conversation and she said “I’m done. That’s it.” Turns out she had a meeting with an attorney lined up later that day, and on Sunday she said told me she wanted to separate and get a divorce. That she would move out to her mom’s house in late June when she went back to day shift, and the kids would go every other week between her mom’s house (with her) and our house (with me) until our tenants could move out of our other house and she would move there permanently.

I have read everything online from Marriage Helper to Focus on the Family to Affair Recovery to Divorce Busters, and did pick up on this forum in May. I’ve read No More Mr Nice Guy (NMMNG), started reading Divorce Recovery, and bought Divorce Busting. In the last month or two I've been trying to detach and only contacting for child-related items. However, that detachment has not caused her to say or do anything that could even be construed as coming back - she seems to be moving full steam ahead on separation and divorce. She hasn't said much if anything positive since February and we haven't had anything other than accidental physical contact - both unlike some other situations I've read about on this forum (even if they ended up in divorce). I have finally been getting out with friends more golfing, playing cards, getting dinner now that things opened up in my state with COVID, but between COVID and my wife manipulating her schedule, it was difficult to do anything but work and take care of the kids for a few months.

Now we’re negotiating child custody and child support through our attorneys. She has the kids on vacation with her family this week (I was originally supposed to go) and I’ll be taking them on vacation with my family next month (she won’t go), and she’s planning to have the kids move into our/her other house every other week after we return. My son has cried and complained of upset stomach, and asking about mommy.

One note…my family background is extremely stable. My parents are married 40 years and almost all my extended family and friends are not divorced. My wife’s parents divorced when she was 12 and both parents have each been married 3 times. She was in counseling and anti-anxiety/depression (Zoloft) since a teenager, long before we met, and cut her dad out of her life for a few years. So her history is a strong factor here. Also, she was for a period way more distant with D1 than ever with S5 so I'm wondering if postpartum depression is a factor. And looking back there were maybe some warning signs in the Fall/Winter - we had a great anniversary trip (Sept), I threw her a birthday party (Oct), and had a nice Christmas - but there were times she was weird about visiting our niece or not doing much for my birthday (Jan) and being mad at little things.

I know that was long, and may have been better if I'd found this site and posted back in February/March, but...any advice for the present? And, any thoughts on whether my wife is a WAW with an Exit Affair (based on the warning signs in the Fall before the new job and potential affair) or a Wayward Wife?


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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BL,

I am sorry you are here but you have come to the right place.

To answer your question I believe you have a wayward on your hands right now that is all hopped up on dopamine. Don't bother trying to diagnose her with anything because right now it doesn't matter. Things are going to have to get worse before they get better so my suggestion to you is to lean into the seperation and make it clear to her that you need time to figure out what you want. I often say on here that the quickest way to get back together is to go in the opposite direction. Sound scary? Counterintuitive? Two years from now I guarantee you wish you would have listened to me.

You sound a lot like me in which I read every book I could get my hands on because I was convinced I could fix my situation and my W at the time was the most wonderful woman in the world. I was wrong on both counts. You too will see that at some point but like me you are going to have to learn the hard way.

Understand that your life as you knew it will never be the same but that doesn't mean it won't be better. Most of that will depend on your strength through this process.

Good luck and we are here for you.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
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BL42,

Sorry your currently going through this. Its a hard situation to deal with but I was a bit like yourself, looking for a fix and so far everything I have done has not had the desired outcome. One thing a lot of the self help books say frequently is to flip flop your behaviour, in other words stop doing whats not working. I've learned that trying to "convince" my WW is totally the wrong way to go about things.

The more I thought about this I started to feel that if I convinced my wife to come back I myself would start to need convincing that she actually did want to come back.

At the moment I have decided to keep all communication with my wife related to our finances and our family only (we have grown up kids so not much communication needed there). My wife has behaved exactly as yours and she has left and saying its over that she has no feelings for me etc etc and has now been in a "relationship" with AP for the last few weeks (although an EA has been ongoing since Jan 20) although she hasn't told me this I found out from someone else.

The last few months have been crazy and for my own sanity I decided it was time to take a step back and flipflop my behaviour. If my WW wants to come back I want her to approach me, I have told her that I love her and I have told her she knows where I am if she really wants to talk and I've left it at that.

Hopefully things will get better for you soon but you will see around here that it can take some time for things to improve, but that all depends I suppose on a number of factors such as how well the relationship your WW may now be in goes and how long it takes for the "fog" to lift and for the chemicals in her brain to stabilise again (can be between 4 - 18 months) look up limerance.

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BL42 , welcome the forum. Very detailed description of your situation and I feel for you man. I do.

One thing near the end I detected was a desire to diagnose her. And this is a very common LBS tactic. If we can pinpoint our WAS/WS's issue, then maybe we can fix it.

The problem is, you can't. Her issues are so complex that 1) it would be impossible for all but the most expert psychiatrist/psychologist to understand, and 2) that there is no way to "fix" it. There are no magic bullets. There are no magic words to say to snap her out of it. If it were as simple as "say this" or "do that" then you would have come across that in all of your reading. And you wouldn't need to be here.

So whether it is her history, or her anxiety, or her medications (I came here convinced my wife's AD's), or that she just saw a guy and decided she want to have sex with him. There is no "fix".

The only thing you can do is to back off, remove all pressure and pursuit, and focus on you. GAL, 180s (self-improvements), and emotionally detach from her. Those are easy words to type. Those are very difficult words to put into place. Especially early on. Every fiber of your being is going to tell you to do the things that you did to win her over to begin with. It won't.

Also, you asked about WAW or WW. WWs typically want their cake and eat it to. It sounds like she has completely begun to walk. She was WW at the beginning, and if she were to come back before she was fully committed could still be WW. But right now I think your only choice is LRT.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Hi Bl42,


Thanks for sharing. I was going to post almost exactly what LH19 did. He is wise and knows his stuff.

I have been divorced over 10 years. Found this sight right after the bomb drop. Just know that you will be OK either way.

So the important thing is focus on your personal growth. You do this for your children. You can not control what your W will do. You can control how you interact with her and behave around her.

Confidence and respect are two of the primary characteristics women are attracted to. Right now, you should project extreme confidence that you will be OK going through this. Also, do things that will gain her respect. Most guys get these wrong. Learn to do these correctly.

Two of my many mantras:
I do not share my woman with other men. I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me.

PuppyDogTails(PDT) does not post here anymore, but I would dig though all of the quotes and digest the information, especially the ones from PDT:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2896617

There are 11 threads, so it will take some time.


So, the best thing you can do is set her free. Do not try to control her. Work on yourself and let her deal with the mess she is creating.

If you are one of the lucky few, her attraction for the "new you" will return. This will most likely be many months away. She will beg you to take her back, at that point , you will be a completely different person and can deal with doing the right steps to get your family back together.

I wish you well and will help clarify anything if you need.




"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Hi BL42,

sorry you're here, but glad you're here.

You're firmly in LRT (last resort technique) territory:

1. Stop pursuing.
2. GAL.
3. Wait and see.

It is very simple, just stick to it. You want to remove yourself from her equation. You want to be confident, in control of your emotions, and attractive. Learn attractive behaviors like R2C said.

Originally Posted by BL42
She hasn't said much if anything positive since February and we haven't had anything other than accidental physical contact - both unlike some other situations I've read about on this forum (even if they ended up in divorce).

You've been smothering her it seems, so I doubt she would even throw a bread crumb out there.

Learn, grow, make yourself happy.

Detach. Seriously. Read about it and be about it.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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I deeply appreciate everyone's responses. My family and friends have been incredibly supportive but none of them have ever been through something like this and don't truly know how it feels. It helps a great deal to hear your experiences, perspectives, and advice. I've read through countless threads prior to posting myself so I feel I'm familiar with some of you already.

LH19 - I've seen you give advice on a lot of threads, and can tell you're very respected here. Thanks for chiming in. I've consumed so many online resources on the topic over the past 5 months I'm almost overloaded. The advice does seem scary and counter-intuitive, but like every says...what I was doing wasn't working.

WMWB - I'm sorry you're going through the same situation. It truly is awful. I never wanted this for me or my children, and it's difficult to not have any say in the matter. I do think my wife was/is in that fog, but is plowing forward so fast with separation/divorce I'm not sure she'll get out of it in time.

Steve 85 - I've read your threads and am so happy your situation turned around. You give great advice as well. Point taken on the "don't diagnose" but it's hard because I'm an analytical/fixer person. I'm definitely working more recently on the GAL, 180s, and detachment.

Ready4Change - Thanks for the words. It's good to hear I'll be "ok" either way, even if it doesn't feel like that now. The "Confidence and Respect" advice really resonates with me...I've been acting scared to lose my marriage/family so far but need to flip that around and act "as-if". I've talked a lot to my sister about my situation and she especially loved your mantras. I'll dig through the PuppyDogTails(PDT) quotes.

ovrrnbw - I think you're dead on with the LRT territory. My wife is moving hard towards separation and divorce, so I'll do my best to stop pursuing, GAL, and wait & see. Definitely need to work on detaching and controlling my emotions.

Last edited by job; 07/24/20 06:06 PM. Reason: Removed reference name to another site that is not related to DB

Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 497
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This is a tough week because my wife took S5 and D1 on a vacation with her family (I was originally supposed to go). I'm glad the kids are having fun but I miss them so much and it hurts seeing pictures of them knowing I'm not experiencing their joy first-hand. I'm an extremely involved father and hate knowing I'm potentially going to miss half their life due because of the situation.

In terms of GAL...between COVID and my wife (purposefully) signing up for evening shift, the first several months were difficult, as I was only working and watching the kids in the evening and all the restaurants, bars, gyms...etc. were shut down. This week, however, I played cards with friends Tuesday night, went out for food and drinks last night, visiting friends in from out of town tonight, and playing golf tomorrow morning and Saturday. Keep busy and seeing my friends definitely helps - I look forward to those interactions.


Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
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Originally Posted by BL42
This is a tough week because my wife took S5 and D1 on a vacation with her family (I was originally supposed to go). I'm glad the kids are having fun but I miss them so much and it hurts seeing pictures of them knowing I'm not experiencing their joy first-hand. I'm an extremely involved father and hate knowing I'm potentially going to miss half their life due because of the situation.

In terms of GAL...between COVID and my wife (purposefully) signing up for evening shift, the first several months were difficult, as I was only working and watching the kids in the evening and all the restaurants, bars, gyms...etc. were shut down. This week, however, I played cards with friends Tuesday night, went out for food and drinks last night, visiting friends in from out of town tonight, and playing golf tomorrow morning and Saturday. Keep busy and seeing my friends definitely helps - I look forward to those interactions.


BL, the blatant disregard for people's lives (and situations) was probably my biggest problem with the shutdowns. I knew people fighting for their lives (non-COVID) in the hospital and family weren't allowed to be there to say goodbye. I knew someone that died of COVID and there was no funeral. I knew people that had legal work to do that couldn't move that forward. People with weddings planned for months (if not years) that were postponed. And then not to mention the posters on this forum stuck in sitches and the shutdowns completely ruined their ability to DB properly, and had them stuck in IHS with no recourse. (Note; this is not political, it is an observation on the disregard for people's lives.)

But what I have continually said is that "where there is a will there is a way". Even in the thick of the most draconian shutdown there were things you could still do if you looked for them. But I do understand GAL was hampered as well as poster's sitches were exasperated due to the shutdowns.

As far as the vacation, just like anything in life you can look at it one of two ways. You can look at it as "oh no, a whole week away from my kids :(" or "I get a whole week away from my kids! :)" Kids are great. I encourage fathers to be very involved in their kids lives. But I also think parents (fathers included) need to take time for themselves!! I was far from a perfect father, some of my mistakes are documented in my threads. But three things I did right: 1) I never missed any of my D's events. Sports, concerts, conferences, etc. I prioritized all of the events involving her. 2) I gave my W time to herself. She had a lot of guilt if she did things for herself. Even when our D was born, I made sure she took time to herself. She didn't always take the opportunity, but when she did she was grateful. 3) I took time for myself. Part of being a good H and father is to make sure your needs are met. Your read NMMNG so you know what I mean here.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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