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I’ve gotten a lot of those same apologies— you don’t deserve this, I’m sorry to do this to you, you crying is Kryptonite for me and I’ll do anything to prevent you from feeling this pain, i hate that I lied. Etc. but what I have never gotten is a heartfelt I wish I never did this, I regret it all. He’s tiptoed into it— I’m sorry I put us in this place, I’m sorry I brought a third person into our M. I guess I’m waiting for the rending of the clothes and beating of the chest and begging for forgiveness. Which won’t ever come. I just want to get to a place where he sees it as a big mistake. That he really f-ed up and is GD lucky to have a wife who is still here. Do you feel your H is sorry like that? (Again just really curious).


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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It's interesting that you ask this question May. I had an email drop into my inbox earlier and apparently everyone has an Apology Language. I took the quiz and the questions and results were quite interesting. (My apology language is needing that person to express regret for the emotional pain that they have caused (as opposed to, say, requiring an explanation, or offer payback/fixing).

I have had apologies from H about hurting me, but nothing near begging foregiveness, and they're certainly not daily, and probably not even weekly. I do know that he still harbours a lot of pain himself about the SSM, and I feel he does still justify his behaviours as an output from that. I do in part agree that at the start of the EA it was more excusable than 10 months later when he was still lying and being deceptive. I'm now asking myself if I have given H the right kind of apology for the pain I caused him.

{{{Wayfarer}}} - so pleased to read your latest updates. Your patience and demeanour has been amazing throughout. Onwards and upwards lady!! You so deserve to be adored by your H. x


M:49 H:49
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D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
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Hey May and Pommy,

Originally Posted by may22
I’ve gotten a lot of those same apologies— you don’t deserve this, I’m sorry to do this to you, you crying is Kryptonite for me and I’ll do anything to prevent you from feeling this pain, i hate that I lied. Etc. but what I have never gotten is a heartfelt I wish I never did this, I regret it all.
So as to the regret no he hasn't come out and said that. And honestly I kind of hope he doesn't. I don't regret it all. I don't think he should either. He should regret what he put his kids through. He should regret some of the awful sh!t he said to me. He should regret putting people who are barely involved in our lives in the middle of this mess because he didn't understand what discreet meant. But I wouldn't even want him to regret it all because I don't. I learned so much about him, and us, and myself because of this. I wouldn't want there to be a desire to have never had this happen in our lives on either of our parts. It was a horrible mess. It was traumatic as h3ll. But all in all, 8 months of our lives. That's just about 10% of our time together and the longer we go on that number will dwindle. If he's learned half as much as I have about himself, and us, and me then I'm fine with out 100% regret. I don't want to be who I was before this any more. I don't want the MR we had before this any more either. I'd like to see more remorse over all, but regret isn't what I need.

Originally Posted by may22
I guess I’m waiting for the rending of the clothes and beating of the chest and begging for forgiveness. Which won’t ever come. I just want to get to a place where he sees it as a big mistake. That he really f-ed up and is GD lucky to have a wife who is still here. Do you feel your H is sorry like that? (Again just really curious).
I know he feels he's lucky I stayed, that I waited, that I gave him the space to fall on his face and pick himself up back again, that I held his hand through the grieving process. He doesn't really articulate much. He does, however, stare at me. Just looks at me like I'm magic. Which I haven't seen in a very, very long time. Pulls me in to hug me and say I love you. Asks me if I love him like 8 times a day. Maybe he'll come out and say it at one point. Maybe he'll just keep showing me. I don't know. My hope is he can articulate that when we start talking about things in depth.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
It's interesting that you ask this question May. I had an email drop into my inbox earlier and apparently everyone has an Apology Language. I took the quiz and the questions and results were quite interesting. (My apology language is needing that person to express regret for the emotional pain that they have caused (as opposed to, say, requiring an explanation, or offer payback/fixing).
I think I need the explanation. I think that's part of the deal here. I've spent so much of my life without apologies or explanations that I don't even need the regret, I just need answers.

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I have had apologies from H about hurting me, but nothing near begging foregiveness, and they're certainly not daily, and probably not even weekly. I do know that he still harbours a lot of pain himself about the SSM, and I feel he does still justify his behaviours as an output from that. I do in part agree that at the start of the EA it was more excusable than 10 months later when he was still lying and being deceptive. I'm now asking myself if I have given H the right kind of apology for the pain I caused him.
I'd have to say that it's pretty likely I'll never see that kind of begging apology. Nor will I get the daily or weekly professions of remorse. I just don't see that happening. At this point I just want answers and introspection. I don't need groveling. And while there was no SSM on my side in our MR, my depression and how long I went without treatment really took a toll on him and us and that's something I need to properly apologize for. But like a SSM the way he chose to deal with it isn't on me. He never even so much as bothered to google partners with depression. He's even confessed that until recently he thought I was just being stuck up avoiding his friends, or lazy. He's just now getting a handle on the fact that I literally couldn't. That showering was truly difficult for me at that time. That I was using all I had energy-wise to keep my job and keep the kids afloat. I had nothing left to give after that. To him or myself much less any one else.

I know we have a long way to go digging through my depression just as much as we do the A. I was really, really bad for the better part of 2 years but was probably battling for closer to 4 years. I very much disappeared into my mental illness. I know that was hard for him to fall in love with some one and watch her just disappear. Not change or grow, but just no longer exist. We need to unpack that. And I need to own letting it go on way too long before getting help, because he has no responsibility for that. Maybe that's why I don't have any expectations of full regret or even 100% remorse. I was already killing our MR before he decided to put the nail in the coffin. Everything as I can see it, happened exactly they way it needed to. I needed to dive head first into intensive treatment. I needed a wake up call. I needed to find myself again. I needed to do so with out the hindrance of focusing on my MR too. He needed to know if he made the wrong call 7 years ago. He needed us to have the big ugly break up to figure out this is where he should be. D16 needed me around as a safety net for that time in her life. Maybe we could've gotten here in a better way. Maybe not.

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It's been over a month since I updated. D16 is now with us 50/50 again. D17 is turning 18 here in just a few weeks. Her boyfriend has decided roommates are not for him and is moving into a studio apartment this weekend. I'm very much entering a weird parenting realm I didn't give as much thought to as I should've. An 18 year old who will be 18 for almost her entire senior year. School has started virtually for both girls. I'm still wfh. There's been an outbreak at H's work. He's fine. We're fine, but anticipating a shut down.

H and I went on a trip just the two of us a couple of weeks after the little family trip for my birthday. It was much needed. We had a really lovely time. We started talking about things on the way home from that trip. H had kept his mouth shut for a lot of the same reasons I was keeping my mouth shut. The main one being trying to stay in the little love bubble. H is incredibly remorseful. I get apologies a lot. I get ILYs constantly. There's a lot of affection. The talks about this stuff are much more like a slow leak in a tire than waterfall of information or introspection. Some of that is the timing of all of this. Focusing on making sure the kids are ready for school and things with work and my school took a little bit of priority. We're both in this place of we have time to handle these things. There's no need to rush it.

He's in a very different place than I am. He's really pushing the buying a house thing. And is very much in a pick up where we left off kind of space. And I'm just not there. I have to tell him on a fairly regular basis that I understand to him this is all shiny and new but that he needs to understand that I'm still working through what happened. We've been making a solid effort to make time for dates and family time. I do really well on our dates. I can let go and just be. Same when he's in the bed with me at night. I'm just so happy to fall asleep with spooning me. But certain things come up and I get in my head.

My car needs some repairs. Nothing super detrimental. But not cheap either. School started for the girls. They don't need much but they needed a few things. D17 needed glasses. H's phone stopped holding a charge so I had to get a new phone for him on our plan. I needed books for my fall semester of classes. I'm super, super tight on cash this month like I have the least amount in my checking that I've had in years. H asked me about a run and about new running shoes and I passed. He asked me about something with his new phone and I brought up how the bill is almost twice as much this month because of his new phone, activation fee, all that fun stuff. And he asked if I needed his help with finances this month. I just kinda unloaded on how much I was spending this month. He said he didn't realize I was having to pay out that much this month, or that anything was wrong with my car. And I just started to cry and snapped "You were fully checked out for 8 months. I'm just now coming to terms with me being able to rely on you again. I just assume I have to carry this, figure things out and fix them myself." He was very hurt. And said something to the effect of me throwing his mistakes in his face. I said "I"m not throwing things in your face. That is our reality. I'm trying to adapt to our new reality. In this reality I can ask you for help. We can talk about these things. But that not always being the case isn't throwing it in your face it's just the truth." He said he understood but was still hurt that I wasn't talking to him about these things or asking for his help.

He's trying. I'm trying. He's still not very keen on MC, but is willing to talk about other options. I just feel like a child or a fool in this whole mess. I wanted this so badly. I wanted him back. I wanted to work on our MR. Now I just keep thinking, dear lord is this ever going to stop being so heavy? Is it ever going to be less exhausting?

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wayfarer! Miss seeing you here.

I have feelings like yours all the time about life in general. When I do, I think about the term "equanimity" in Buddhism. It refers to the ability to see without being caught by what we see. or the ease that comes from seeing the bigger picture. Another part of it is to find balance through inner strength (which you have incredible amounts of). MR is not easy. Life is not easy. There will be bouts of heavy rain and you will feel like you can't go on. But remember you have been through storm before, and here you are, still standing.


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Hi Wayfarer,

I was thinking back on your early threads, you having to defend yourself for standing for your M and not kicking your H to the curb. I remember you saying if a PA automatically equaled D for all LBWs, then there wouldn't be very many of us here on the boards smile Anyway, thinking also that your thread should be one for newbies to read... you have DBed like a champ from the very start. Your strength, ability to see the long picture, be compassionate for your H and also for yourself, ability to detach from the emotions to make the right choices for your girls-- you are incredible. Honestly. I often think in any given situation, what would wayfinder do?

I like what wooba said about equanimity. I also, though, feel that you have been the epitome of this idea all along. In fact, the only things that threw you were when he started to turn towards you and say or do things that were R oriented. Now, you're in a place where that is wholly where he is and maybe this is just another way that same sentiment inside you is surfacing. Or, this is the big thing inside that you need to confront that was rearing its head whenever he did something loving and it made itself known with a bit of anxiety.

I don't have any good advice or pronouncements for you. I guess I would just ask you-- what is stopping you from looking at this new phase of piecing the same way you looked at the DBing phase? Why is this part so much harder for you? How did you adjust so easily from the sex-on-the-beach vacation bliss to your H having a full-on A in front of everyone burning dumpster situation and face that with equanimity, yet moving from the dumpster fire to piecing is so scary?

I think you've said before you're built for crises... you've been through an incredible amount of trauma in your life and have made it through stronger each time. I would imagine that re-trusting your H to be the person you can lean on again is going to be really hard. Time is your friend in this, I think. Giving yourself a break, not expecting too much too soon. Making sure your H sees that and gives the house buying pressure a rest. Maybe ask him to do the work to find some ways he's comfortable with to work on the MR-- let him do the research and find something to try. Maybe it isn't heavy MC. Maybe it is working on trust and intimacy building outside of the context of the A.

You've got this, WF. You are the strongest person I've ever (virtually) known. xoxoxo M


Me (46) H (42)
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4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Hi Wayfarer,

I'm new to these boards and have been taking in a lot of information over the last week and found your posts today. Our situations are very similar right down to being ghosted on social media but with one exception; he hasn't mentioned separation or divorce at all. Why? I don't know. In fact anytime I've offered to leave he's begged me not to make any rush decisions so I don't yet understand what that means. If I look at your timeline I'd say our current R is in about the spot yours was in May so that gives me some hope although I'm trying to keep any expectations at bay.

I'm just learning about DB'ing and am working on GAL and detaching. Thank you for being so open about your journey, its an inspiration for a newbie trying to figure out how to navigate this mess. I'm so happy for you for the progress you and your H have made, I look forward to future updates from you.

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Welcome to our weird little world ING. I'm happy you're here. I don't know that I could've survived any of this with out this place. Take what works. Leave what doesn't. And most of all right now is a time you put you and your kiddo first. And absolutely nothing else. Radical self love.

May, I gave some thought to what you were asking me as I've been asking myself those questions for a while. I think part of it is while the apologies are prolific, so I can see he's incredibly remorseful, the explanations and answers remain sparse. IC feels that I have to choose to either accept that he simply doesn't have them or isn't ready to share them if I want to keep moving forward with H. But that I'm with in my rights to say not good enough and walk away, but she doesn't feel that's what I want. It's not. I have to accept that it's going to take time for him to truly understand WHY he did what he did even if he's understanding and accepting responsibility for the full scope of WHAT he did. The reality is I'm trying to rush his process because I'm sick of mine. I'm tired. That's the reality here. I'm tired of working so d@mn hard. I'd like to work just a little less. I'd like to sit back and have him carry this for a little while.

Which brings me to my other thought on this. My depression is creeping back in. And think that's why I'm so exhausted. I function well in crisis because I'm an "over do-er." I guess in crisis there are "under do-ers" and "over do-ers" and I'm the latter. Violently the latter. Without a crisis to manage. Without trauma to respond to. Or kids to keep afloat during said crisis or trauma I'm left with my base level. Which is apparently a depressed person. The current state of things pandemic, social unrest, children entering adulthood, my work having no idea what the plan is here for WFH or return to work, none of that is helping the anxiety and depression. And then let's just dump repairing a MR onto that. I just feel emotionally drained constantly.

The last thought on this is well I'm feeling a little petty right now. Since he's so much a puppy for me. Everything I say or do worries him. I was having a really bad anxiety day. It had nothing to do with him, which I was pretty clear about, but he must have asked me 20 times if I was ok, if we were ok, or if I was mad at him. And that deep down petty part of me wants to be like well I carried this MR and househould for 8 months, get to work bro. I'm going to kick back and deal with my own stuff, while you try to keep this together. Don't I deserve that? Especially since I'm the best thing since sliced bread lately.

I just need to track how much of this is really my problem and how much of this is an us problem. But I'd also like to feel like this is going to stop being so much work all the time. I'd like it to be a moderate amount of a moderate amount of time...lol.

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Hi Wayfarer,

The thing about having a partner, a true partner, is that you CAN lean on them. You can be petty and grouchy and say you know what? I can't right now and they will understand and pick up more of the burden for you while you recover. It just can't be like that all the time, and you both need to do it-- it can't be one-sided. You're in a place where you have done truly heroic things to keep your M together and your H *should* be picking up the slack, IMHO. His turn to work overtime and shoulder some of this burden you've been carrying and be glad for the opportunity to do it without needing to be constantly reassured of where your head is.

My question to you is-- have you said any of this to him? That you need to understand the WHY of what he did and you don't have that from him yet? If he doesn't fully understand that yet I think it is OK for him to say that to you, but I think he also needs to be able to understand that it is important for you to know the answers and that he's willing to do the work together to get to a place where you're comfortable in the end, whether it is MC or whatever.

On the depression... I'm assuming you're working with your IC on this. I don't know that I would take for granted that your base level is depressed if you aren't responding to trauma-- I think the current state of the world right now is really difficult for everyone, and maybe you're reacting to that plus kids entering adulthood and piecing more than the letdown of the stress of the A. You're tired. Anyone would be. (Most people would have collapsed and given up long long ago.)

Anyway, just know that you have a whole community of people here rooting for you and thinking of you. You deserve to be focusing on yourself right now. Is there anything you can do just for you? Give yourself a little mini break?

xoxoxo (((WAYFARER))) You are the very best, you know!!


Me (46) H (42)
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May, I've been giving a lot of thought to what you said. Can he carry this for a while? Will he carry this for a while so I can take a break and/or work on me? And the fact is he can. And he will. And he keeps trying and I'm not letting him. Because I'm scared. I don't want to need him. I don't want his help. Even though I desperately want his help. He keeps offering to put our finances back together and to start working on a new budget so I'm not so tight every month and we're back into a balance. He keeps offering to make dinner on nights he knows I have a lot of homework, or days when I'm running to the office and working from home and running around for the household. He offers to pick up the slack on all of that household stuff. But I'm afraid to rely on him again. I'm afraid to need him. I'm afraid to put myself in the position I was in before. I was so blindsided by all of this. I don't know how I'm going to be able to not position his A directly in the middle of my pot full of abandonment issues. And that's on me that's on my control issues which are rooted in my trauma. That's on the trauma I wasn't healed from before he put me through more. That's stuff I have to push past and work through without dumping all of it on him. But I have to find a balance in him giving me the reassurance that he isn't every other person in my life I loved who only chose me when it was convenient to them to love me, that I deserve because his choices are the reason I feel this way, and me healing myself because I'm allowing this mess to intermingle with my past.

The same goes for the why of the A. I haven't explicitly said it out loud. Because a petty part of me feels like he should know that, I shouldn't have to say that. And the insecure part of me is a little scared of what he's going to say. Every little spat we have makes me cry. (I literally started bawling because I accidentally locked him out while he was on a run.) I constantly think he's counting point against me every time anything happens. And I haven't really been explicit about that either. And all that probably goes back to vulnerability. I've found myself able to cry in front of him. But I can't seem to bring myself to really bear my soul. And that's a lot on me too. But what he did was horrible and 1,000 apologies won't erase months of me having to constantly check myself and just not say a word, because he could use my feelings as a reason to leave and pitying me, like I was the pathetic one or throwing anything I said in my face. I don't know how to say all this with out it feeling like I'm telling him it's all his fault. It's a lot his fault. But a lot of it is the scars I bear from things he doesn't even really know about. Because the truth is he wasn't all the way in this because he doesn't really know me inside and out. He's never really dug under the surface the way I do. And I don't know how much of those scars I want him to know about in case he changes his mind again.

As far as my depression, IC and the GP are working on it with me. May up my medication in a month. IC would like me to get my anxiety under control without medication and see if that improves the depression. The medicine I'm on currently is weight neutral and since my BMI is still not to my GPs liking, and is happy with the weight loss, they don't want to change my medication, because the weight gain from other meds could make me more depressed. However this stuff has a fun side effect. It increases anxiety...lol. So you basically have to be stress free, not get the side effect or be way more depressed than anxious. Which was the case. Now not so much. And I hate anxiety meds. They make me feel drunk. So we're working on self care, and a huge one is returning to a bed time routine. I had an amazing bed time routine that helped me sleep while H was out of the bed, but now that he's back in here everything's been thrown off.

With all that being said I'm taking a break from here for a while. Watching everything fall apart for you, Pommy, and Sage as it looked like you all were rounding the corner to the finish line is really affecting me. I almost checked his phone records yesterday. I've gotten incredibly paranoid. And please don't think there's any blame here. Because there isn't. This is on me. But being surrounded by this is making it hard. I wish there was a board being actively used by people who are reconciling and piecing, but we don't really have that here. I think that's probably why people drop off the face of Earth when things start to go uphill around here. This is crazy hard to rebuild trust when I keep wondering how much time I have before he starts talking to OW again. I love and appreciate you all very, very much. And you cardinal and wooba!!! But I think it's time to say good by for a month or two. I'll check back in then. I'll be thinking about all of you. Putting out all the positive energy I can in your directions. xoxoxxoxo

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