WW post D (Thanks BenB part 4)

[LH19]

M,

You can definitely voice your opinion about the children but don’t be surprised if it’s not followed. I promise you that if you got your $hit together your kids will be just fine. Unless of course your ex is extremely toxic.

[Traveler]

MHO a new father/mother figure.. and is around or lives in the childs home.. I think in some cases the "new parent" is actually a bigger change/impact on their lives than their original parents breaking up

Mumin, you're making fantastic leaps. D3 saw mommy going on a trip with a guy. D3 didn't see a "new father figure", "step dad", etc. Maybe he will become that. When that's real, that's when you deal with it.

(=someone who spends time with the kids.. ) should be introduce very slowly and with a huge amount of respect.

Introducing him briefly as a background guy on a video call one time seems slow enough.

Is it the opinion here that post D you don't say how you feel or think about things to the WAS? because that's the vibe I'm getting.

Well, yes and no. She's not your partner--your feelings and opinions no longer matter. If you have some info she should consider when making decisions by all means share. Then, step back, and let her make her own choices as a competent parent. Her choices may not be the same ones you'd make, and that's okay. If her care falls below a baseline level you can always involve child protective services or the courts.

I see a lot of suggestions to move to email only. That sure indicates strictly formal communication.
It would mean I don't have to see or hear OM.

If it helps you slow down and be less emotional, that's a great idea.

[Traveler]

W's own parents couldnt even agree on if they both should come to her graduation from High school.
I dont want to end up there... But then agian I wont be stepped on or misstreated by her.

Why the need to "agree"?! Mom decides if she wants to go. Dad decides if he wants to go. Sounds like neither one got over the other. If either one had, this becomes largely a non-issue.

As for me, I'd go to my D's graduation regardless of how my ex felt. "I'm going. Hope you come, too!" Fortunately, my ex-W and I get along well enough I invited her to a pre-party for my S's graduation and an after-party for my D's graduation and we attended those together for our children.

Remember, two people can only argue or fight if they both engage in it!

You can avoid the above scenario unilaterally.

[SteveLW]

It would mean I don't have to see or hear OM.

And here is the root of the issue. Mumin, be honest. This is less to do with your D finding out about mommy's new friend, and more to do with mumin finding out about the OM.

Did you think she's never date again? And then eventually introduce your D to a new SO? Or was your expectation that she's miss you and want to get back together? Mumin, you need to move on. Someday you might get the opportunity to reconcile with her, but the worst thing you can do at this point is to sit there and wait for that to happen.

[Spiral]

Mumin,

I haven't followed your sitch carefully, but how often do you really need to email or call? I haven't done either one of those things in months. If necessary, we talk when we're exchanging the kids. And I definitely don't think you should ever call with video again.

But I totally get where you are on seeing or hearing OM. A couple months ago, my wife called and I heard OM's voice in the background. So, I ended the call and we have never spoken on the phone again. Problem solved. Best of luck and sorry you're going through this.

-Spiral

[Traveler]

I haven't followed your sitch carefully, but how often do you really need to email or call?

Yes, 2-3min weekly during handoffs is enough for most co-parenting business. “Johnny began sniffling two days ago, I’m giving him 150mg ibuprofen and checking his temperature every 4hrs, and he has a violin recital from page 31 due Friday.” Every 3-6mo something comes up like school registration or a medical cost or grades suggesting a quick call or e-mail.

[Mumin]

First off thanks everyone for your answers the past few days!
I read DB several times a day but come here myself for what I would call group-therapy.
Writing here is therapeutic itself and it helps me focus.
However I do believe I need (more and more) to disconnect from DB and my new life as a process and just live it.

The past week with kids and family was great! Kids had a blast most of the time and I got some time to work a few hours here an there.
We did go to W's father and had coffee and fresh strawberries. Were there for about two hours.
Mostly talked about everything and nothing but a short convo about the sitch.
Father in law: I am very glad you came! I understand you may not want to talk about it but I really do hope you and W can get a functional/ liveable/ workable (not sure about translation) situation together. I guess its up to you to...
He didn't finish his sentence because I said: IMO its up to her now.
Then I went and comforted D3 who fell.


Yesterday me and the kids drove home, actually had my first road kill of a small roe deer.
Poor thing.
When we arrived home I cleaned up and did all the laundry. A180, that felt SO good.
Me and W used to sometimes leave packed bags for a week+ after coming home form a vacation.

W wrote she'd be coming home late (we hadnt agreed on a specific time).
I got worked up but waited a while and collected my thoughts and just replied:
"That's up to you but the kids are expecting to see you today so you have to be more clear on whether you are coming home after bedtime or not." (She told them on her call last thursday, "see you sunday")
She replied "oh, of course then I'll be home by bedtime."

Interactions last night and this morning were minimal. I was short in my replies as she started some conversations here and there. ("Ok", "thats good" etc)
Only things I mentioned was some of the activities the kids had been doing and the fact that our car will need some service.

The past weeks mood swings with W have been a good reminder of DBing and the new me.
I have been able to give it time and respond (or not) with a logical thought process, rather than emotions.


Regarding OM, Steve you are right that my emotions are all about me finding out about OM.
However, I still have my feelings about introducing new people in a child's life.
I will eventually voice my opinions and then try as hard as I can to expect nothing.
I have started working on an email/text with some things for her to consider.
Ex.
I want us to move to having the kids a week at a time (today 2,2,3).
If she cant decide on the house I will start looking for other places for me and the kids.
My view on introducing new partners to the kids.
I will get a new car, for myself. (This might take months because of my job so might wait with bringing it up.)

---------

This week I am working again and was offered an apartment much closer to the city for the week, so I took it.
Since daycare is closed for four weeks it wouldn't really be possible to work full time from the house.
I will spend some time to myself, read, GAL and it will give the kids some quality time with their mother.
I might spend a night or two at the house.
I will enjoy the week as it comes at me.

Today I feel empowered.
I know I don't need her.
I know I will be alright. I'll be great in fact!
My kids will be alright. Although I want a solid family for them I really cant provide that, so I will be their ROCK.
I am their ROCK. Even D3 is showing tendencies to prefer dad.

Also in my plan for this week:
Hitting the gym hard at least 4 times
Intermittent fasting
Golf
Night out with some friends
Visiting a friend who's working in a cafe, on an island
Start to research which kind of car I want (Prob SUV or a powerful family car)
If I go home I will spend some time working in our yard

"Remember, two people can only argue or fight if they both engage in it!"

CW, this is very powerful in DB but I just realized it is even better post D. Thanks!

[SteveLW]

Regarding OM, Steve you are right that my emotions are all about me finding out about OM.
However, I still have my feelings about introducing new people in a child's life.
I will eventually voice my opinions and then try as hard as I can to expect nothing.
I have started working on an email/text with some things for her to consider.
Ex.
I want us to move to having the kids a week at a time (today 2,2,3).
If she cant decide on the house I will start looking for other places for me and the kids.
My view on introducing new partners to the kids.
I will get a new car, for myself. (This might take months because of my job so might wait with bringing it up.)

Mumin,

The problem is that you have no way of enforcing this. She can do what she wants, even against your wishes. You have no legal standing as long as the kids are not endangered by her actions (IE, introducing a known pedophile into their lives). Can you even imagine going before a judge about this? "Sir what is your complaint?" "My ex-W continues to date and introduce new SOs into my children's lives!" The judge would see that as an attempt to manipulate whether or not your W dates other people.

The problem that you face is that since you have no way of enforcing it. Since there is no legal standing assuming that the current OM is not a sex offender. FURTHER, since this was merely over Facetime and not even in person! This will make you look petty, pathetic, weak, and desperate. If your goal is to have a chance to R at some point in the future, then you are barking up the wrong tree. Who the kids are around and who they are introduced to while they are in her custody is up to her. If they Facetime with her and OM is there too, then you can look whiny and show yourself being a sore-loser by making a a fuss about it.

A truly detached person would let this roll off his back like water off a duck. The fact that you are making an issue of this proves to me that you are not detached. Either your W is a terrible mother that can not be trusted to introduce new people into your kid's lives. Or she can be trusted. The shock of her having an OM is causing you to overreact....and to use your children as pawns in your "battle". That is not only unattractive, but it is NOT what a good father would do.

If you are truly concerned about your children, rather than trying to institute two week notice rules and other things that cannot be enforced, you would ask to meet the OM. To shake the guys hand and have a conversation with him. To get his name just in case you start to detect things or hear from your kids things that are worrisome. But DO NOT use your own feelings towards your Ex-W's penchant to start dating to cause you to overreact. Did you really think she was never going to date again?!?

[Mumin]

Thanks for reading and replying Steve!
At work so will be short.
I wasn't clear in my post.

I am not going to try to enforce the 2 week rule. I have given this a lot of thought and as you say its about my emotions towards W and OM more than about my kids. MAybe the guy is great. What do I know.
From my previous snooping (+7 months back) I don't think so though. But I cant know.
I believe there will be an OM2 and 3 etc but maybe they will stick together and be married. I cant know.

You're idea of talking to OM is really a good idea. Thank You!
Though I would need some real mental preparation for something like that.

The message I mentioned is definitely not done and absolutely something I will run by the forum before sending.
Probably I wont send everything all at once. Maybe I'll only send one of the points now and other later. We'll see.
I just wanted to mention it here as something I am working on.

So again, to be clear.
You guys brought me to clarity. I will not be trying to enforce the 2 week rule.
Its not out of my system completely and maybe it should be "I would like to meet him".
Not sure I mentioned it but this rule/boundary/expectation is something me and my IC discussed in January when I was in panic mode and since then I haven't really processed it in detail. That + not fully detached (that will take time) is probably why I got hung up on it.
You guys helped me process this with some logic and reason.
So of course she will date. OF course my kids might get to a point where they do have a step-dad. I am fully aware of this. In general I don't think it is stupid or strange to have an agreement on these things for a divorced couple. In fact I expect any sane person to understand this. Realizing my W isnt sane I MIGHT voice an opinion about it (as LH put it) but it will NOT be the 2 week rule.

[ovrrnbw]

Mumin,

Steve isn't saying that you flat out want to meet the OM when he said this :

If you are truly concerned about your children, rather than trying to institute two week notice rules and other things that cannot be enforced, you would ask to meet the OM.

I think he was saying if you're really worried then meet him, but you are actually worried about something else, right?

I wouldn't worry at all about the OM. He's an idiot and their affair is not dating or relationship and it's not going anywhere. Just let it go and worry about you and the kids.