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Hi Bluesea,

I echo May's advice: if there is any way to get some space between you, I think it would give you both some much-needed breathing room to really figure this all out. I admire your strength and fortitude to go through all of this under the same roof as H, but I found so much clarity and self-awareness in the moments that I wasn't actually with my H. Is any way that you and the kids can escape for a long weekend, or maybe he would be agreeable to taking some space himself?

Also, YES to not having to make any decisions today. In fact, I wish I had waited longer during the swinging back-and-forth that my H has done over the past few months. I wish I stood up to his remorse and charms and allowed him and myself to see if it was truly real, or just words. You have nothing to lose by waiting or drawing this process out. We are more defined by our 'nos' than our 'yeses'. And I would also add that 'maybe, let me think about it' is perhaps on of the most powerful tools you have.

Thinking of you!

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He wanted to discuss this as a family, so we did. He was very emotional and addressed us all. He showed remorse and was apologetic and promised to devote himself to the success of the marriage and to the family.
-He is going to put in all his effort to make this marriage work
-He is going to go to IC for 6 months
-MC when I think he/we are ready
-He understands fully the 3 points that LH called out and agrees to this and says he is truthfully only at the stage that he really wants to want all those 3 things.
-He will be vulnerable and open, and that scares him to do that, but he will
-He acknowledges all my efforts and is now there to work with me on this marriage
-All of this is taken on a day by day basis, we have all been wounded thru this, he recognizes the devastation he has caused with his selfishness

I am willing to move forward - but am extremely suspicious. He did spend the rest of the time answering questions that he would not before, about the OW, about the gambling, about the credit cards, the gifts, a lot of things he would not before. He went thru the accounts and tallied all the debt from gambling and stepped me thru all the transactions. He has assured us that the A ended on June 11th, like he said before, and did admit to that one mtg for 15 mins (he is tracked) was to pass left items between them. He agrees to being tracked if that is what he needs to do. He did follow thru on getting his testosterone levels checked (off the charts at 1600 where norm/low is 200) and will get this stabilized via our family physician who has agreed to administer to normal levels.

I am not going to get all dramatic and think we are fixed, not in the least. Its going to be a hard journey ahead. He is a liar and a cheat, and because that is his history, I will remain on the fence until I have seen actions that back his words.

I do notice a softening - as quickly as his eyes went cold on Feb 25th - his eyes softened today and I have seen more of the nice guy I married rather than the raging jerk I have been eating sh!t sandwiches from these past 5 months. You all only know what a jerk he can be, but he really was the nicest husband, full on NGS. I let him know I was done walking on eggshells, and I would rather walk away than go thru all this again. He gets it.

At the end of the day - its my prerogative to just walk whenever I want to - with or without cause. He could do the same at any time. I am not going to wrap myself up in promises. Until I see some real actions, I am keeping my mindset that this is just a fire drill. It was only yesterday that he was threatening to leave....

Thank you Steve, LH, May and Sage - I am willing to invest some time to see if this is a sincere effort on his part or not.

Last edited by BlueSea; 07/08/20 12:28 AM.

M:50 H:49
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Blue,

I would not have told him the three things that are a must for reconciliation, that was meant to be the baseline. Not a big deal but most advice here is not to be shared.

I have to be honest I am very skeptical right now but we shall see. He has a really lot of work to do on his end and time will tell if he’s up to it.

Give him space to sit with his feelings and see if he pursues an IC appointment on his own.

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Hi Bluesea,

Sounds like the family meeting went well, all considering. How do the children feel right now? What was their reaction?

Adding on to LH’s post, I think the hardest thing for you right now is going to be sitting back and letting him fix this mess on his own. Making his own IC and Drs appts, not asking him about it all, letting him repair his relationships with the kids (and you not getting in between their anger towards him), and most importantly, not reminding him of his commitments to doing XYZ (not verbally, anyway, but keep up your boundaries). Let HIM be the one to come up with a transparency plan, including tracking if that’s what he wants to include. (You of course can decide if it works for you or not, but he needs to take the next steps) The more he does this on his own, the better the outcome for you as a family. He broke it, he fixes it. Don’t step in. The only person you can save is YOU.

You have the right mindset, letting his actions speak louder than words. Stay strong, be brave and remember how mighty you are!

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Bluesea, sounds like a good initial step. Day by day is a good approach. As someone that has been through it, trust me when I say there will be bad days and days you want to pull the plug yourself. 2 years+ in I still have them. I'm having one today.

Breathe. Relax. Allow yourself to step away from it all from time to time.


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Thank you LH, Sage, Steve

LH - I will give him space, this I do struggle with, I need to get a tattoo that says -- be patient

Sage4 - 16D is still mad, but will go along. 13S is quiet but optimistic, he adores his Dad, or used to at least.
Thank you for your post - I am so clueless on DB and the techniques here - I really needed to read what you wrote because I would not have known to do that, ie, "he broke it, he fixes it, don't step in". I would have totally 'helped' with checking if he is making IC appts and offering advice with kid relationships.

Originally Posted by Sage4
The more he does this on his own, the better the outcome for you as a family.

Makes total sense - but again - I would have completely missed it. Please come back if you can and point out the obvious to me, because its just not so obvious to me.

Steve - I am so sorry that you had an off day with your S. Its hard to be the veteran. I just assume its easy because you know so much. Thank you for always offering your advice to me on my situation. I am taking it day by day and always praying for direction and sending up gratitude.


Yesterday
In the evening, H texted he wanted to go for a drive. Honestly, I was fearful to go. That drive always meant something not good. But, my son gave me a pep talk, and I went. H was really full of conversation, we talked more in that 30 min drive than the past 5 months.
This scenario (of just having a simple conversation) is so strange now, I struggle with being at ease around him when he is being nice...something in me gets this fight or flight feeling that something bad is about to happen. It was almost like a panic feeling. I need to chill. He kept saying that "this is a marathon, not a sprint" -- I need to continue to detach -- so that no matter what happens I will be okay. He did get emotional, he did reach for my hand and held it - but now I find that I have no feelings around him, his emotionality, or his reaching for my hand. Now he wants to hug, and I really just don't want to anymore.

I did a lot of listening and added some banter so it would not get awkward - but overall - I think it was good I went, even if I had to push myself to do it. Any advice on how I should be or not be?


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Blue,

Are you familiar with the Pavlov and his dogs experiment. That's what is happening with you during the drive and every time the bell rings (so to speak) you get a cortisol dump which puts you into fight or flight mode. Unfortunately this will probably continue for awhile.

I think you need to be honest with him and let him know that you are taking time to see if this is what you want moving forward. Also, you are not his mommy you are his wife. He made this mess and he needs to repair it with the kids and you. That means he makes his own appointments and follows through on his word like a big boy.

Make him earn it. That's the only way it works long term. When he speaks you just listen. Otherwise you should be giving him space and GAL.

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I had a breakdown last night.

H was talking about his journey and the next 6 months of figuring this out for him, and his thoughts, and his feelings and his life, and him him him...so I let him know that I wasn't sure either, that I also had decisions to make....that I had just come thru a marathon of getting thru the last 5 months that really was hard on me and took a lot out of me and I have distanced myself enough to feel like I am in a healthy enough place that walking away was now an option for me.

I let him know I am scared of being vulnerable again - that he is now being soft and kind - but it wasn't just the other day that I was terrified of him. When he came to hug me the other night and it was dark, and he was still in a bad place, he surprised me when he grabbed me so hard - I thought he was going to really hurt me - that it was it, he had snapped. So, knowing that mean guy is in there - and could come out at any time - makes me so fearful, in words I just can not express here. I saw a side of him that terrifies me - everything about me is raising warning flags.

I see him trying, given its only been a couple days, but all these smiles and hugs is so counter to the person I have been dealing with these past 5 months that I am not able to process his change. Where is that snarling beast that ripped me to shreds to many times? He is in there. When will 'he' come out again? How can I just offer my heart up again to this person and move forward?

Its also so hard to know I have been praying and wanting this change and effort from him for so long - and here it is! - and now I am faltering. I let him know how depleted I am right now and unsure. This man who I loved so much did some really terrible things to me - I had put all that to the side so I could continue the fight - but its all coming back to haunt me.

I was not the best wife I am sure but I really am a good person and I deserve someone that will treat me kindly, that I can trust implicitly and will be loyal and communicative. I grieve for the husband I have lost, for the marriage that is no more - its gone, its all gone. The ignorant bliss I had enjoyed before all this is gone, I know there is a beast inside of him that I will never be able to un-see... and that has changed everything. I am questioning it all.


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Blue I am really sorry you had a breakdown last night and that you are struggling.

Originally Posted by BlueSea
The ignorant bliss I had enjoyed before all this is gone, I know there is a beast inside of him that I will never be able to un-see... and that has changed everything.


The ignorant bliss I had enjoyed before all this is gone, I know there is a selfishness inside of her that I will never be able to un-see... and that has changed everything.

I took your sentence and changed a few words to fit my situation. Prior to Sept 2014 I enjoyed the ignorant bliss of marriage. Not that my marriage was perfect because if it were I wouldn't be here, but it was ignorant bliss. Now after almost six years everything has changed. There is no innocence in anything. My world (the world) has completely changed. Not that it is better or worse it just lacks ignorant bliss. I am so more aware now that the world is a mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees if you let it. Again, this isn't to say everything is bad. I am closer now with my kids then I have ever been. I have had some of the best times over the last two years since I have been divorced. I have met some incredible people over the last 2-5 years. I am just not sure whether I will ever see the world again through child like eyes again. There are some scars that run really deep.

You have been through a lot the last 5 months. Please be kind and patient with yourself.

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Originally Posted by BlueSea
I had a breakdown last night.

H was talking about his journey and the next 6 months of figuring this out for him, and his thoughts, and his feelings and his life, and him him him...so I let him know that I wasn't sure either, that I also had decisions to make....that I had just come thru a marathon of getting thru the last 5 months that really was hard on me and took a lot out of me and I have distanced myself enough to feel like I am in a healthy enough place that walking away was now an option for me.

I let him know I am scared of being vulnerable again - that he is now being soft and kind - but it wasn't just the other day that I was terrified of him. When he came to hug me the other night and it was dark, and he was still in a bad place, he surprised me when he grabbed me so hard - I thought he was going to really hurt me - that it was it, he had snapped. So, knowing that mean guy is in there - and could come out at any time - makes me so fearful, in words I just can not express here. I saw a side of him that terrifies me - everything about me is raising warning flags.

I see him trying, given its only been a couple days, but all these smiles and hugs is so counter to the person I have been dealing with these past 5 months that I am not able to process his change. Where is that snarling beast that ripped me to shreds to many times? He is in there. When will 'he' come out again? How can I just offer my heart up again to this person and move forward?

Its also so hard to know I have been praying and wanting this change and effort from him for so long - and here it is! - and now I am faltering. I let him know how depleted I am right now and unsure. This man who I loved so much did some really terrible things to me - I had put all that to the side so I could continue the fight - but its all coming back to haunt me.

I was not the best wife I am sure but I really am a good person and I deserve someone that will treat me kindly, that I can trust implicitly and will be loyal and communicative. I grieve for the husband I have lost, for the marriage that is no more - its gone, its all gone. The ignorant bliss I had enjoyed before all this is gone, I know there is a beast inside of him that I will never be able to un-see... and that has changed everything. I am questioning it all.




This is all good stuff. I like how you let him know that you are in a place where you need to decide what is best for you. Good for you! LBSs, and WHs in particular, take for granted that they can waltz in and waltz out and their over attached Ws will sit there waiting until they are ready to condescend from on high to let them bask in his presence. I see that behavior in so many of these situations dealing with WHs. So many of the ladies that are putting up with lying cheaters just have such low self-esteem that they think they are getting what they deserve. They convince themselves that their WHs are the victims, and that they need to beg for one last chance.

So I am glad to see you breaking out of that and coming into your own. The truth is that you, and every other LBW on this forum DESERVE better!! If more LBWs had your new attitude they'd do themselves, and their sitches a world of good.

So keep GAL. Keep working on you, but keep being detached!! You've got this Bluesea! You are going to be the best version of you from here on out....no matter what you decide related to your WH!

He sounds very narcissistic. I would require intense IC for him as a stipulation for your staying in the M. Make sure you get a list of requirements too. Not just IC, but transparency as well. And anything else you can think of in order to be sure you can coexist in MR 2.0.


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