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#2898732 06/28/20 08:37 PM
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DnJ Offline OP
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Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2898735 06/28/20 10:03 PM
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What a hot weekend!

While mowing my grass, and considering the metaphorical implications of turning long shaggy grass into neatly trimmed lawn played within my head, I furthered more on indifference.

We find detachment. The detaching, unlinking, of our emotions from our spouseís behaviour, words, and emotional state.

Indifference follows. This is us becoming indifferent to our own emotions - not indifferent to our spouse. This is the core of compassionate indifference.

We influence our emotions. We are responsible for our emotions. No one else is.

Putting our love away (for safe keeping) for a while is a good and healing thing. It is a normal and natural part of this. It allows one to delve within themselves free of the noise and emotions towards their spouse. One finds their beliefs, their values, their convictions. Upon what you discover you strengthen, alter, or discard what you find. This is an amazing opportunity for development and betterment of self.

This is not an indifference towards life or anyone else, just your spouse; itís part of the process of grief. This is the limbo stage of oneís path - the void. I found there is something beyond limbo (if you recall my thread titles).

I promote finding and keeping compassion for your spouse or ex-spouse during this time. This is the time of beliefs and their creation and strengthening; make compassion more than just a thought, make compassion a belief. Hence compassionate indifference.

There is a tendency, unwitting as it may be, to harden oneís heart, put up walls, and protect oneself from further hurt. See this and take control. Mental assertiveness is very effective, especially during times when emotions are muted. Compassionate indifference keeps oneís heart soft and squishy.

A word of caution, indifference regards your feeling towards your spouse. However, it can bleed out to other aspects of your life. Consider and investigate other voids that crop up; there can be some irrational coupling of indifference to other things as well, which you may want to look into. For the most part this indifference is ok, for this state is temporary; one doesnít want to be unfeeling towards their own life.

As you heal and work towards acceptance, your indifference will lessen and unwind. Feelings and emotions do return from that place of safekeeping. Yet, we remain detached and in control, and well healed. A good and healthy outlook for oneís life.

There are different paths depending upon how we traversed our time in limbo. Hopefully compassion and empathy have flourished. Our walls will lower and a willingness to risk hurt and to love again will return. (Of course if one has taken a less kind path they will be less empathic and more risk adverse)

That love for our spouse becomes more of a belief. Something more than a feeling. Something more unconditional. It doesnít drag us around, nor does it control us. It has an almost indifferent aspect to it. We have learnt how to turn indifference on and off at will. We live in full view, within the light, within love, and seldom with full indifference.

From here we progress towards acceptance and forgiveness. Our empathy allows us to see and believe, our spouseís point of view and their beliefs. Our indifference to that, brings us back to our own; for that is a rabbit hole you do not want to go down. The ability to empathize with oneís spouse can only be compassionate and must lead to understanding. Forgiveness, or the strengthening of it, happens when you realize and truly see just how lost they are.

Indifference is a necessary step along our paths, and a valuable skill we learn. Use it with compassion. It affects you more than you may realize.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2898819 06/30/20 02:05 AM
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DnJ -

I like the image of you mowing your acreage and comtemplating indifference. I would imagine a great many things have been comtemplated this way over the years.

Originally Posted by DnJ
This is us becoming indifferent to our own emotions - not indifferent to our spouse. This is the core of compassionate indifference.


This is excellent. It's easy to merge the two, and I find myself even now wondering about this. My interactions with H bring no warm fuzzy feelings......yet. But, here I am now, caring for him, making plans to see him this weekend, and looking forward to it. My indifference to my emotions have protected me, and allowed me to find me. Because I was never indifferent to H, I am now free to explore us as the new me. New emotions will, or won't, be developed over time. For now, I'm o.k. with that.

Grace


M: 56
H: 57
S: 22
D: 20

H Moved out: 10/1/18
DnJ #2898830 06/30/20 12:27 PM
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i object to the word indifference, but you already know that.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D Final 12/23/16

"There's something awfully screwy going on around here!"

Walk along the side of the road with a bag & you're gonna end up with a lot of trash!
DnJ #2898835 06/30/20 01:22 PM
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I get what you are saying, bttrfly. It's really just a change of mind-set and detaching. Really getting that you have no control over someone else, so focus on reality, and the "indifferent" (i.e. changed) emotions can follow.


M: 56
H: 57
S: 22
D: 20

H Moved out: 10/1/18
DnJ #2898864 06/30/20 06:50 PM
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I imagine your thinking occurring while mowing as mine does while weeding. Imagine if I had acres to weed! smile

I am going to post the same quote Grace did, because I am turning it over in my mind and trying to understand it better.
Originally Posted by DnJ
This is us becoming indifferent to our own emotions - not indifferent to our spouse. This is the core of compassionate indifference.

At first I thought, well, I do, more of the time though not all, feel indifferent to my spouse now. He comes, he goes, but it is in the background while I am focusing on whatever is going on in my life at the moment. I still feel that I'm living with a strange college-aged guy for a roommate. But I guess I am not indifferent to his wellbeing--is that the distinction? The H that is in front of me now is so different than the one I knew in ways that are not attractive to me, so I don't have those feelings of love that I used to have when he would walk into the room. Yet I do still believe I love him, but that love is more removed and (again, not 100% of the time, but more than it used to be) less emotional.

Originally Posted by DnJ
I promote finding and keeping compassion for your spouse or ex-spouse during this time. This is the time of beliefs and their creation and strengthening; make compassion more than just a thought, make compassion a belief. Hence compassionate indifference.

I think Iím still trying to get my bearings in this spaceóI go back and forth between thinking I am being too nice, or worrying that my kindness when he does approach me or initiate a small convo is somehow wrong. Is somehow not projecting the detachment that I do feel. I suppose I should trust that I can be detached and also kind, and I should stop worrying about what that does or does not look like from the outside. Which leads me to this question: What does compassion for oneís (MLC) spouse look like, on a day-to-day, concrete basis? I am curious what it looks like when you are living with this spouse and just in general. Here or on my thread, I would love to hear examples from others.


T: 16 M:10
BD 6/2019
DnJ #2898945 07/01/20 04:58 PM
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Great words to ponder.

From my view, I am currently working on the characteristic that I unwittingly developed during childhood - withdrawal and "zoning out". That's about the best I can describe it. It was a self-preservation mechanism to keep myself safe from two parents who were incapable of raising children - NPD and BPD parents who Ded and then fought like cats and dogs for decades afterwards.

Being raised in that environment led to the formation of many instinctual habits, some of which I am only becoming aware of now. This indifference you speak of is something I identify with very much- though sometimes I have a hard time determining if I am detaching with love, or reverting to that old safe behavior from my childhood.

I think either way, it is a good thing to take a step back and look at ourselves and who we are. Regain our footing. Alter our perspective, though not so much as to rewrite history. Rather to see our lives and ourselves from another vantage point.


DnJ #2898947 07/01/20 05:04 PM
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Good Morning

Originally Posted by Grace21
I like the image of you mowing your acreage and comtemplating indifference. I would imagine a great many things have been comtemplated this way over the years.

Grace - When I was a boy. Lol. Arnít men still boys on the inside? Just bigger toys.

When I was young, just a boy, I loved walking through the store with Dad and imagining my life where I could ride those ride-on lawn mowers. I loved the idea of driving, as a boy. I still do, I love to drive.

I wanted/wished for a yard where I needed a ride-on mower. Needed, not just used because it was cool, needed because my yard was big. Ha ha. Be careful what you wish for, DnJ.

I do love mowing grass. And I get 4-6 (sometimes more) hours of solitude and peace. Just me, and my thoughts. And any influences that come my way - and there are plenty. Iíve thought, and crafted, more posts and poems and feedback and advice than I can find the time to upload. Lots of it is still in my head and heart. One particular piece has been there for almost a year now. I really want to get it down on paper. I need to retire. Lol

My two hours of daily commuting yield similar contemplative time. I suppose Iím not alone in that.

Iím glad my views are resonating with you. And I really like your outlook on exploring a new relationship and your feelings around that. They will, or wonít, develop. Good for you.

Your situation has certainly taken an interesting turn.


bttrfly - I do see and understand your point and objection.

I like breaking out indifference from detachment. I found it easier taking smaller steps when first crawling along as a newbie. First detachment, then indifference.

I also found similar ease for walking it back. Rolling indifference back, accepting my feelings and subsequent beliefs for XW the person and not her behaviour. To me it is rather clear. Still detached with focused indifferent when and where I need to be (which is rather seldom).

Soft, squishy, and strong heart! Feels awesome!


Originally Posted by cardinal
I imagine your thinking occurring while mowing as mine does while weeding. Imagine if I had acres to weed! smile

cardinal, you are welcome to come of here and weed to your heartís content! Iíve got acres and acres that could use some TLC. smile it is pretty amazing what clarity comes while letting ourselves mentally freewheel a bit. Thatís part of another contemplation Iíve had - influencing and allowing our subconscious mind to find clarity.

Originally Posted by cardinal
But I guess I am not indifferent to his wellbeing--is that the distinction?

You bet.

We separate the person from the behaviour. See them in a non judging light. It takes removing our emotions from the equation to be objective and gain understanding, which influences our emotions and beliefs, which furthers our compassion.

Originally Posted by cardinal
Yet I do still believe I love him, but that love is more removed and (again, not 100% of the time, but more than it used to be) less emotional.

Love it!

Thatís it.

Love is a feeling, a thought, an action, a belief. It is a choice. It becomes unconditional.

Separate the person from the behaviour. Love the person.

We donít need to hate, or even dislike the behaviour. Indifferent is a good response to that. We control our actions and behaviours. Without malice or vengeance treat your spouse as they deserve, or through their actions have demanded. As in, ďmy friends donít treat me that wayĒ - be cordial and kind and focus on your own life. You are no oneís doormat!

Unrestrained compassion would lead to being used. We need to see the bigger picture. We are still first in our own lives after all.

It does take time to find oneís bearings in this new landscape. I understand the worry and back and forth thinking about how your actions may or may not be interpreted by H. Find yourself. Trust yourself.

See and be comfortable with your beliefs. If you arenít happy and comfortable - fix them. Then follow them.

Beliefs are excellent headings; slow to change. Follow those and let the chips fall where they do. His eventual landing is still really up to him; you will not affect his trajectory too much. You will affect your own.

Originally Posted by cardinal
Which leads me to this question: What does compassion for oneís (MLC) spouse look like, on a day-to-day, concrete basis? I am curious what it looks like when you are living with this spouse and just in general. Here or on my thread, I would love to hear examples from others.

Iíll pop over to your thread and post some thoughts there.

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2899143 07/05/20 07:06 PM
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Hello Iron

When all our emotions regarding M, spouse, etc. are mostly still, it is a great time for self realization and growth towards who you want to be.

Be the best you will be.

The usual statement is be the best you ďcan beĒ, however I prefer ďwill beĒ. Every single day is another opportunity to be better, to make a difference, to live in the light. When I draw my last breath is when Iíve become the best I can be; until then I strive to get there, strive to be the best I will be.

Ah wording, and our listening minds. smile

D


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
DnJ #2899145 07/05/20 10:00 PM
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What a week.

So many storms. So many outages and equipment problems. So many hours worked, Iíve lost count. For example, yesterday, Saturday, started at 5:30am and I got home at 10:00pm.

Oh and it was so very hot! OMG. Just cooking out there.

I spent a good portion of my week at the hospital substation. Storm damage left only one of their transformers online. Putting the entire hospital on the remaining transformer was overloading it, so repairs needed to be made quickly.

A funny story, at the end of the day, with us guys still working, the nurses and other staff all walked by the substation towards their vehicles in the adjacent parking lot. At this particular time I was the only one there as the other guys were doing some switching and then getting a drink. Around 100 nurses walked by, and a few of them stop and tell me what a great job Iím doing restoring their power. Even called me a hero.

Substation work usually goes unnoticed and gets little accolades. So I was caught somewhat off guard. The hospital electricians happened to be outside in the shade and saw this exchange. I, as graciously as I could being sweaty and tired, accepted the goodwill and thanked them. I also did a strongman pose, pressing my arms together in front of me and puffing out my chest. LOL. It went over very well. I laughed, they laughed, the electricians laughed, it was a good moment. After the nurses left, I told the electricians, itís tough being a hero. To more merriment.

That bonded me and the hospital electricians. And some of the staff passing by on the street. Something I realized during the next days as the hospital suffered two more equipment problems and outages. The electricians helped with everything I needed from them. Even one missing his daughterís baseball game to remain after hours to transfer load within the hospital. Of course that is his job, but it became ďfunĒ.

People will forget what you do for them, but they will never forget how you made them feel. Just something Iíve picked up over the years; the values relationships are built upon.

While Iím off on a soliloquy... smile

I was called out to station problems in city one hour away. The storm loomed to the north of me. Dark clouds stretched across the horizon and lightning lined the sky. Literally the day turned dark within the storm clouds. The rain pelted down and blue white flashes strobed the dim gray world. I head off to the storm to restore power and light. As I drove from my house and the clear sky above, it was all too familiar.

Go into the darkness. (Work and life - a metaphorical intermingling.)

People usually fear the dark and donít venture there. When the opposite should be the case. Go into the dark, with your light, and shine from within. Make a positive difference. Push back the dark.

Go into the darkness and bring the light with you.

- - - -

Some other musings during my many hours of commuting.

A Broken Heart
by DnJ

A heart that is broken
Is a heart thatís been loved.
Touched by the Grace
That comes from above.

For love is divine
Making one light as the air.
There was such a joy
Having someone to care.

The anguish one feels
Is proof of that love.
Emotions that once soared
Upon wings of a dove.

Heartache and pain
One needs to now bear.
The depths of which
Feels so very unfair.

The feelings of grief
Do eventually give way.
Our hearts do heal
And emotions again play.

Happy and joyful
They very much return.
Compassion and forgiveness
Ah the lessons we learn.

We heal and walk
Upon this path we were shoved.
A heart that is broken
Is a heart thatís been loved.


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

Love the Sinner, Forgive the Sin.
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