OK - Joe, he did ask again on Thursday night. He brought up I have not released his funds.
1) I cannot be the one to move this forward. This is HIS D. 2) My atty has made it clear that I am not to drop FO 3) I had a book order drawn up giving him immediate access to 1/2 of the funds to be deducted from the overall settlement once that took place --- that was 6 weeks ago and he didn't seem interested in even looking at the order so I never sent it to him. 4) If he wants that money released he is going to have to get atty. I can not handle being a go between him and my atty for a D that I never wanted. 5) I am not wanting to break NC but I also don't want him sending me another text like Thursday telling me how I failed again. 6) I get that less is more - - - You are right, I put too much emotion into my statement by once again letting him know that this is not what I want... but I'm not against being amicable. I don't believe in letting things get nasty. This is painful enough and I want to maintain my dignity as much as possible.
I will let this drop unitl he contacts again. He is an adult and I'm sure he is well aware that if he really wants that money RIGHT NOW he can go get his own atty.
1. He knows you aren’t going to push for the D. 2. So don’t drop it. That doesn’t mean you have to tell him that. Or go out of your way to do so. 3. Ok 4. I believe you’ve already told him that. 5. Unless you’re willing to block him and remove him completely from your life you can’t control when he contacts you 6. He knows this isn’t what you want. You’ve made that clear time and again. Again he just doesn’t care what you want.
I’m not trying to be cold here I’m not. But still way to much focus on him. You don’t need to worry about him, you don’t need to focus on him. He isn’t your problem. He knows you don’t wanna divorce. You don’t need to remind him. He’s an adult he’ll figure out what he needs to do when he’s ready to file for the D or when he’s ready to do what’s needed to get the money he believes he’s entitled too.
Ask yourself this question. If your job fired you, would you still be calling them 4 or 5 times a week to check in? Remind them to do certain tasks? Make sure they still really wanted to fire you? Because that’s what’s you’re doing.
Me: 40 EX:37 Together 17 years Married 16 years 5 kids, 20,18,15,14,11
5) I am not wanting to break NC but I also don't want him sending me another text like Thursday telling me how I failed again.
Originally Posted by JosephS
5. Unless you’re willing to block him and remove him completely from your life you can’t control when he contacts you
As JosephS says, there are those control fantasies again. You control whether you block, mute, or respond to his texts. You were touching the stove less when you had him muted and were attempting to slow down communication. You don't control when or what he texts you.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I can not handle being a go between him and my atty for a D that I never wanted.
Yes! Was it thread #1 or #2 where we recommended directing him to your attorney for any legal and/or financial questions? I hope you follow through on this!
Note, you don't control whether he uses an attorney or represents himself to release those funds. You do control if you circumvent your own attorney by contacting ex-H directly.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I will let this drop unitl he contacts again.
No idea what that means. He texts once, you ignore, he texts twice, you respond?!
If you have not told him all financial and legal questions should be directed to your attorney, be clear and do that once. End any games where he has to do X or Y to get you to respond, e.g. contact you a certain number of times. If you have told him already then there's no reason to break no contact to reply next time.
No idea what that means. He texts once, you ignore, he texts twice, you respond?!
He brought it up last week - I didn't respond other than just letting him know that "I hear what he is saying" - he was complaining.
His response to that was NOT more of the FO and atty's but rather a closure statement on how he was feeling in the M.
SO - I did not bring it up myself again. So I'm not making him text X number of times before I respond but rather than me bringing it back up I have decided to let it go until he wants to discuss again.
ANYWAY - back to 5 days NC
AND... I finally got to 25lb down... working hard and the weight loss is slowing. I'm looking to drop another 5lb by mid July... fingers crossed!!!
Hey KC. I think at this point it's safe to say you've heard our message to you loud and clear. Yet you continue to defy the message and act on your feelings and emotions, your sense that you can "nice" him back, even though it hasn't worked for you at all and in fact just keeps driving him farther into OW's arms. I'm not going to sit here and repeat the same things I and others have already said dozens of times, the fact that you are defying the advice isn't because you haven't heard or understood it, it's something else. And that "something else" is what you need to get to the root of.
You do come off here as defiant and headstrong (I mean you are very sweet, kind and loyal too, but we're trying to target what the issue is here) and maybe those characteristics drove your H away, and if so then think about how you can change that. Let's get back to your H's message:
Quote
H: I am a rebllious person always setting rules and limitations causes resentment. Living in fear is no life worth living. I knew this wasn't healthy a while ago. I tried to live in a lifestyle that you wanted and I felt pinned, restricted, regulated. I wants things yes who doesn't but I want to enjoy things that I enjoy the ways I enjoy them. No rules, no ultimatums, no restrictions. We argued constantly because I wasn't heard to listened to. I wasn't using my knowledge and my gifts, instead I have to push myself away from what I know what I can do. I failed to see that earlier I showed no respect for myself in that I could not respet anyone else
There are some pretty strong words there, such as "fear". I believe your H is being honest with you, he's not trying to manipulate you. He's trying to tell you what he saw as your faults in the M because you have asked over and over again.I think he's hoping this will put it to rest once and for all. The WORST thing you can do from this point on is ask him again, because HE ALREADY TOLD YOU and if you ask again then that is a CLEAR indication to him that you don't listen. And that's kind of the same impression I think many of us here get too. We talk and talk and talk to you and you ignore it all, leaving the impression that you aren't listening or understanding, so people explain the same things to you again and you continue not to put it into action. I think you do listen because you can repeat it back at will, but there's some synapse that isn't firing properly and you're not able to actually follow the advice, at least not for more than a few hours before you revert back to your old ways.
Regarding the funds, we've gone over this before but your L has made it clear to you that they are NOT "his" funds. Sure he may have had some money before the M in a certain account, but there is much more to it than that. You've got to sort out who owes who what on EVERYTHING you own and that pool of money is the "equalizer" that the settlement will be paid out of. Let me give you a simplified example:
I have an account with 50k in it when I get married. We buy a house together and pay it off. It is now worth 100k. I choose to stay in the home after my spouse moves out. It's split evenly, so I now owe her 50k.
So you understand, in this scenario, that 50k I previously had in an account is now HER money, not MINE. THIS is what your lawyer is trying to tell you, the funds need to be locked up until everything is settled. You are not holding "his" money hostage. If he wants the funds then ALL financial matters need to be settled, whether you do that as part of a D or as a separate agreement. If he doesn't understand this, then explain it to him one time and then let it go.
And that "something else" is what you need to get to the root of.
AS, as always, very astute.
I believe the "something else" is fear. Irrational fear. This is why KC refuses to block his texts. In her head she thinks "What if he wants to get back together, but I miss a text saying so!" This is irrational fear. Because if and when he wants to get back together, he won't rely on a single text to tell her. We've all seen it that when the WAS wants to come back they will move mountains to do so! (And the LBS should require them to move mountains to do so!)
This is why I believe that KC will not be able to move on properly without therapy. But I am not going to repeat myself on that again.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I find this frustrating because I have not contacted him since he sent this message.
Yes, he came after me with some anger again - angry that I would choose now to make changes and then trying to manipulate me again to release the funds.
I told him 6wks ago I would not release the funds per my atty.
I did NOT respond to his anger other than to say "I hear you" --- a full 14hr later. That is when he sent the last text.
Did I contemplate sending another text telling him he needed to get his own atty because I would NOT be doing the hard work of his D. Yes I did, however I did not send anything.
It was pointed out AND I agree. He is an adult. He wants this money released he can go get an atty and take those steps needed. Its not my job to remind him. Therefore, I did not reply to his text.
There is no point in blocking his texts. He will not ever be texting me again. I get it. He is done with the M, he has moved on, he has his stuff. I'm not under any delusion that he is going to text me that he wants to repair the M.
I've maintained NC for 5 days. Its not been easy - there are times I just want it all over it because I have no patience and other times I just tell myself what the hurry (because I do need the healthcare). Why am I doing all the work while he gets to skate away carefree?
Your h will contact you again w/some excuse either about the puppy or he's left something behind or he'll have another question about a bill. It's his MO and he may not contact you in the next day or so, but he will definitely contact you again.
Right now, he's waiting for you to come back at him over his last text. Why? Because he knows you so well and knows that the temptation is there and he figures you'll shoot off a text to him. Bottom line, he baited you and he's hoping to get you so fired up that you'll just say enough and do whatever he wants to get him out of your hair. Sure, we know what your lawyer has told you and thus far, you've stayed the course w/her advice.
Unless his texts are an absolute emergency, just delete them. Whatever he needs, he can purchase it at a local store. This business of continuing to come there needs to stop until papers are finalized and yes, all of the bills are paid and the splitting of funds and/or assets are divided.
KC, you can do this, stay the course and do not allow this man to rattle your cage.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
KC, once you get over the hump about caring about getting him back you will find such strength in yourself. It feels so good to GENUINELY know that you don't deserve what he has been plating out (cheating, lying) and at the end of the day it doesn't matter how good or bad of a wife you were, those things he did are uncalled for and unacceptable. PLEASE talk to an IC to help you get over this hump. You need someone to help you get past this point. No one here wants to see you stuck in this circle, I have a friend who is ahead of me in the whole D journey and she reality checks me sometimes and holds me accountable and we are trying to do the same thing for your virtually.
Block him completely and find a therapist. You are holding yourself back and I'm sorry but your H does NOT deserve you running through the wringer over and over again. He has good qualities yes but he has some bad qualities too and its not fair that you are killing yourself trying to fix everything and he doesn't have to fix himself.
I promise you that when you finally push yourself over this spot you are hung up on, you'll look back and feel like you were crazy to think that way in the first place.
I'm saying all this with care. It hurts to be the one left behind so I care about the rest of us in this same boat, we are all trying to pull you along with us. Time to move forward KC. And you need a third person (IC) to help you get there because reading your self help books is just making you focus more instead of detaching. You need to put your self analysis on the back burner until you stop worrying about him.
So I'm off today and feeling a bit lazy but I've got stuff to do!!!
Filled my bird feeders. I have a wooded back yard and get all kinds of visitors - lots of birds, tons of squirrels but if its early enough or dusk and I'm patient I can see momma possum and her babies. WAY too many racoons. I have a fox that lives just behind me and sometimes I'll leave out food for him to lure him out for me to get a glimpse of him. Don't usually have deer visitors until fall or winter when food is more scarce.
I needed to work on things for the party coming up but my hard drive DIED.. can't access anything. Thank goodness S18 is a computer nerd - he thinks he can change out the power board on the drive for $10 and save the day... now waiting on snail mail.
I haven't been to a store since BD. I used to do 100% of the shopping but I just started having S18 do it ---- its gonna be hard when that kid goes to college and I have to start doing it myself again.
Had purchased a new king size bed last August and previously had queen size so new headboard had been on the list but pretty far down on the list. WELL, 2 days ago bit the bullet and ordered a new headboard and the adapter kit to get it to work with adjustable bed bases.
Also today S18 will meet with college advisor teleconference in planning out his first year at university!!!
H texted last night. He apparently was snooping in my calendar. "you have a court date in July". One it must have taken a lot of guts/nerve on his part to text that because the only way he would know that was if he was snooping... obviously snooping. Two I can only guess that he is a little shocked that perhaps I'm pulling him into court?
One thing he was adamant about was we were NOT GOING to COURT... this was NOT going before a judge... whatever.
Seriously - my calendar stated Circuit Court 4. I'm having to go to court to have S18 father help with college costs. It has nothing to do with H.
Anyway its irrelevant... but made me chuckle.
Think I will get my work out in early today so I had hit the pool late this afternoon as well as get my final list in play for the party.
H texted last night. He apparently was snooping in my calendar. "you have a court date in July". One it must have taken a lot of guts/nerve on his part to text that because the only way he would know that was if he was snooping... obviously snooping. Two I can only guess that he is a little shocked that perhaps I'm pulling him into court?
Yeah....he isn't going to text anymore..................
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
H texted last night. He apparently was snooping in my calendar. "you have a court date in July". One it must have taken a lot of guts/nerve on his part to text that because the only way he would know that was if he was snooping... obviously snooping. Two I can only guess that he is a little shocked that perhaps I'm pulling him into court?
Yeah....he isn't going to text anymore..................
Yeah... this was completely unexpected. For someone who accuses me of spying on him he seems to do some snooping of his own that also causes him to spin... that he thinks I'm taking him to court.
No worries though I just rolled over and went to sleep.
It didn't really bother me. I need to not be interested in someone who isn't actively taking the time to pursue me and work on things with the same energy and effort I am.
I will go fold some laundry now because that always makes me feel good (weird I know!!!)
See, I just told you yesterday that he would be contacting you again. It goes to show that he is monitoring everything you have out there on the net. My advice, block him from that access as soon as possible. Evidently, he's still wanting to bait you into contacting him again.
KC, we all know that you can do this...block him!!! All he is doing is keeping you on the rollercoaster to get you to give him what he wants. Again, he knows you too well and knows that if he continues to contact you, eventually, you will given...regardless of what your lawyer tells you. Please, please block him.
We all have been where you are right now, but we each had to take our toe out of the pond and put both feet on solid ground in order to move forward. I have faith in you that you will more than survive this situation. Show this man that you are the prize and that you can move forward and live your life to the fullest. The best revenge is to live well.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I suspect he wants to keep this out of court because he knows it will not be the outcome he wants.
So... he will continue to groom you, maybe throw you some breadcrumbs, play nice, and mess with your emotions so that you slowly let your guard down and release the funds he is wanting.
To you. This is the third time you thought he'd go dark forever and our prediction was strongly contrary. As you say, he actively looked (in your calendar) for a reason to contact and bait you, and found it.
Originally Posted by KitCat
No worries though I just rolled over and went to sleep.
Great. I imagine KitCat earlier on being manipulated by that text and thinking "Maybe I should just let him know I'm not taking him to court.. otherwise (control dream) he might worry and get angry at me." The problem is you're struggling to maintain NC and he's not going to stop baiting you until he succeeds.
Have you yet dug into that "something else" that keeps you touching the stove--by not blocking him, by eventually being baited into contacting and then spinning at his response? Steve proposed an irrational fear that he'll attempt to R once and only once by text or phone. It's also possible you're following a dysfunctional pattern (first documented by Freud) of attempting to repeat a trauma (keep reading his messages) to show mastery over it (no spinning, no contact)? "Seeking out those relationships now means recreating history and changing the outcome, thereby gaining mastery over what we couldn't control". True mastery isn't showing you can be burnt without feeling pain, true mastery is to stop touching the stove.
I suspect he wants to keep this out of court because he knows it will not be the outcome he wants.
So... he will continue to groom you, maybe throw you some breadcrumbs, play nice, and mess with your emotions so that you slowly let your guard down and release the funds he is wanting.
Except that I'm not releasing the funds. Frankly I probably have more to lose than he does. There is currently a lot of equity in my house. But I will stay the course. He is an adult and knows how to hire an atty.
I've accepted that I want no part of legal dealings of a D I never wanted. I cannot stop what he wants but I do not have to roll out the red carpets for it.
I'm getting busy living my life. I do not want to deal with the emotional s8ck of legal issues.
To you. This is the third time you thought he'd go dark forever and our prediction was strongly contrary. As you say, he actively looked (in your calendar) for a reason to contact and bait you, and found it.
Originally Posted by KitCat
No worries though I just rolled over and went to sleep.
Great. I imagine KitCat earlier on being manipulated by that text and thinking "Maybe I should just let him know I'm not taking him to court.. otherwise (control dream) he might worry and get angry at me." The problem is you're struggling to maintain NC and he's not going to stop baiting you until he succeeds.
Have you yet dug into that "something else" that keeps you touching the stove--by not blocking him, by eventually being baited into contacting and then spinning at his response? Steve proposed an irrational fear that he'll attempt to R once and only once by text or phone. It's also possible you're following a dysfunctional pattern (first documented by Freud) of attempting to repeat a trauma (keep reading his messages) to show mastery over it (no spinning, no contact)? "Seeking out those relationships now means recreating history and changing the outcome, thereby gaining mastery over what we couldn't control". True mastery isn't showing you can be burnt without feeling pain, true mastery is to stop touching the stove.
I don't know. I can tell you for once I WAS NOT spinning. Don't laugh but when the text notification popped up before I even looked somehow I knew it was him... weird because I do text others fairly frequently. Sometimes I just think the universe lets you feel its force.
ANYWAY -- my female bff told me I should reply "are you snooping?? .. you should really stop that. this is personal and I'm not asking about your plans"
^^^^^^ OK that was hilarious because that was word for word what he sent me 2 weeks ago. ***NO ONE SLAM ME FOR THIS. Laughter is great medicine and this was funny.
Besides it is humorous to see him spin and sweat thinking we have a court date scheduled and somehow he doesn't know about it... on the other hand he would just state this is another reason we aren't together because I lie and deceive him.
Well this girl has her big girl panties on... but we aren't talking granny panties... and we'll leave it at that.
I'm having a super fantastic day. They won't all be like this. I won't lie I woke up Monday morning crying... I get that some days will be rougher than others. I've accepted that H is gone. I accept that I'm still allowed to be sad about my imploded M. I get that I have things to work through. One day at a time.
Now if they would just open the ports by September I could go sailing. If I could take some more time off work I could take another trip to a beautiful lake with wonderful cabins... sadly I can't take off that much time so close together.
I'm being busy the best way I know how... I forgive myself for the days that are more of a struggle than others.
My guess? Anytime you get a text notification you think it is him, and are disappointed when it is not. Then when it really is then "you knew it was him".
Regardless, this guy is going to keep you twisting in the breeze for his own devices for as long as he can. He is going to hope you finally give in and just release the funds. He is out of the house. Living his life with OW. And has no reason to lift a finger to let you move on.
So while you feel like the funds being tied up are a hindrance, really the D being stalled is really where the hindrance is. I get you don't want to do his dirty work. We often tell LBSs not to. UNTIL the time is right. So how much longer are you willing to wait? 6 more months? A year? 2 years?
He will eventually want to marry OW because that is what he does. So eventually he will grow tired of the stalemate and file/move the D forward himself. And when he does KC you will spin out of control again because despite what you type here the fact that you want to reconcile with this lying cheater oozes out of every word you type. Heck, your thread title is still "I don't want a D", as if that isn't completely understood because NO ONE wants a D! Not even the WAS wants a D! If they could wave a magic wand and make their marriage just disappear into the ether, they would. If I on a message board can detect that you are stuck waiting for him, you can bet he does too.
As far as what you have to lose due to home equity, what you should really want is a fair settlement. Even if that means you get less cash due to the home equity. My W wanted to walk away with nothing. I insisted that we would split everything down the middle, 50/50, because that was fair.
"Besides it is humorous to see him spin and sweat thinking we have a court date scheduled and somehow he doesn't know about it."
Narcissistic lying cheater thinks every thing is about him.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
My guess? Anytime you get a text notification you think it is him, and are disappointed when it is not. Then when it really is then "you knew it was him".
I never think its him... sometimes people just have intuition. I've been blessed with that in my life... I'm not saying daily and maybe a lot of it is premonition??? I have these weird freaky occurrences sometime... some are bizarre. At certain times in my life they happen more than others. I may go a decade with nothing... and then suddenly its happening frequently.
I'm not religious and I'm not overly spritual but sometimes I give it to the universe. Most of the time it makes me laugh.
Quote
So while you feel like the funds being tied up are a hindrance, really the D being stalled is really where the hindrance is. I get you don't want to do his dirty work. We often tell LBSs not to. UNTIL the time is right. So how much longer are you willing to wait? 6 more months? A year? 2 years?
Steve its not even been 4months since BD. No, I'm not at a place to emotionally carry out the burden of HIS D. I don't know what he wants for his future. Of course if he wants remarried he is going to have to end this one first... and that might very well be what motivates him to get an atty.
I know 100% certainty that I am not ready to pull the trigger. I will not be goaded by anyone to do so. I'm not a fool. I understand that I do still have hope that this is not the end of our story.
While its taken time for my heart to catch up with my head. I can only control myself. I can only focus on myself. I'm reminding myself daily to stop focusing on the M. Either he gets his crap together or he just doesn't. In the meantime I'm planning several solo vacations and trips.
Quote
As far as what you have to lose due to home equity, what you should really want is a fair settlement. Even if that means you get less cash due to the home equity. My W wanted to walk away with nothing. I insisted that we would split everything down the middle, 50/50, because that was fair.
i wasn't implying that I wasn't wanting to be fair. Its just he keeps throwing out that he had these funds before the M. What i was trying to say is that I also brought funds to the M... I already owned and was living in the house I have before the M. Those funds are more than the funds of this account.
Either way I've spent more time on this issue than I planned today. Off to exercise and then the pool.
You posted her 2/11. So this has been going for more than 4 months. But if you aren't ready fine. However I saw where he pointed out your weight and flaws. Then he lies and cheats on you. He sounds like a real prize.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Friday night S18 and I put together and tried to install the new headboard which was listed to be 78" in long when in reality it was 74" long... Definitely 4" short and unable to attach the board to the frame. :-( Overall was tired and frustrated... (and thinking that H would know how to finagle it to work right.... <<<< I recognize this is poor thinking on my part but appreciate the fact that I did not act on it)
It was soooo hot yesterday. I planned to walk 20min into town to watch the fireworks last night alone but at the last minute my son said he would join me as his plans fell through. It was super great to have the company. Fireworks are not his thing as he has sensory issues so I appreciated his time. We had a good chat on the way there.
I was surprised that he told me that H texted him last week mentioned that he may not come to party and gave some work excuse. I know the excuse is invalid and the real excuse is that he would feel uncomfortable around my family given the current situation... even though his mother will be there along with the young nephews. I'm not focusing on it
S18 also told me he texted H last Friday over a lawn mower issue. For starts I'm surprised that S18 would even do that given how overly angry he is at H right now... AND, I'm even more surprised that H answered him. It wasn't an offer of help --- no shock there. S18 seemed resigned though very frustrated he would have to figure it out himself.
I've had a couple of nice chats with SS20 who is finally stateside now but still 1/2 a country away. He commented on a couple of my FB posts so I messaged him to keep it private. I don't really know how my H would feel about staying in contact with SS20 and frankly don't care but I don't SS20 put in a tight spot. We had all hoped he would be home this month (and make it to grad party) but he is still a month away from being home. SS20's gf is going to make it out for a 5 day visit. I sent SS20 some cash so they could go out to a really nice fancy place for dinner. I reminded him that when he finally makes it home to stop by - have some things here for him.
I get through most of my days fairly well. Staying busy at work helps. I realize that right now at this moment I'm completely miserable. A HUGE chunk of me just wants to fast pace the D and get it over with... another part wants to say stuff it and keep that FO in place for as long as possible, move everything at a snails pace so he has to do all his dirty work and be reminded of the choices he made... and even a smaller part of me says I need to learn patience and to do just literally NOThING and that things may look so much different in 30 days, in 60 days, etc.
^^^^ With all that running through my head I'm too emotional to make a decision that I wouldn't end up regretting or second guessing later. So I'm just going to let it sit like background noise for the time being.
I'm going to move forward working my @ss off to let him go... and for now just pretend all the legal stuff doesn't exist and to quit thinking about it.
Last edited by job; 07/05/2001:37 PM. Reason: edited language
I think your still operating under the illusion of action where if you keeping trying different things that one of them will turn this around. First you addressed his complaint about your weight by dropping 25 pounds. Then you addressed your relationship issues by reading books and when you informed him and that didn’t work. Your last ditch effort is to do something with the divorce process. Try to remember that doing nothing is actually doing something so that should be your play moving forward.
Judging by your last post you did not mention how many days of NC you were at so I’m guessing you broke it.
This is the hardest thing you will ever do but you will get through it.
I think your still operating under the illusion of action where if you keeping trying different things that one of them will turn this around. First you addressed his complaint about your weight by dropping 25 pounds. Then you addressed your relationship issues by reading books and when you informed him and that didn’t work. Your last ditch effort is to do something with the divorce process. Try to remember that doing nothing is actually doing something so that should be your play moving forward.
Judging by your last post you did not mention how many days of NC you were at so I’m guessing you broke it.
This is the hardest thing you will ever do but you will get through it.
Soooooo drumroll..... I did NOT break NC!!! But, I shouldn't be counting the days either... that puts too much focus on it.
I wasn't using doing something with the divorce process as a tool to get him back. I was trying to explain emotionally that a big part me of just wants to be one and done --- that's coming from a place of deep pain. NOT trying to win his attention back. But, then I go back to why do I have to do the work for something i didn't want to why in the world can I not have any patience??? That things may just be different in 30 to 60 days... why rush??
So I admitting I do not want to do anything at the moment. I don't want to make a decision out of fear or anxiety (cause I've done plenty of those.) SOOOO, I am focusing on doing nothing.
Would appreciate some advice - H texted this morning "Hey did taxes get done this year" I have NOT responded. I did our taxes prior to BD and they were discussed at the time and they were discussed again in March. I get that on the calendar that Google put a reminder in on the 15th for Tax Day which was moved from April due to Covid - so he saw the reminder but he seriously can't remember that we have already covered this months ago. He also knows I'm always on top of everything. I've done the taxes on time for the last 10yrs.
This is a business item A) Do I just respond with yes or B) Do I ignore?
Thanks!! Please note that I'm not spinning but I want to do the right thing and clearly I've made bad judgement calls previously.
Thank goodness its busy at work today --- I'm getting stuck in my own head.
Yesterday was terrible as I saw a cute video/commercial on FB with an adorable pup. That sent me in a few minutes missing my own puppy so much... that was followed by finding a part of one of his toys under the couch when I was trying to see what the cat was doing.
UGH... badly broken heart. My head is filled with visuals of my puppy.
I spent more time with my dog. Would have loved to go to the park with him for a distraction but it was soooo incredibly hot this weekend.
It looks pretty positive that sailing in September will be a no go due to C19 causing continued port closure. Plan B is to go get matching tattoos with male bff. I've never had a tattoo and personally don't like tattoos - so why in the world was this MY idea??? We are deciding between a simple lotus flower, or just simply coordinates of the location where we met 40yrs (our old middle school), to even a saying such as you'll be my anchor to keep my feet on the ground and I'll be your wings to keep your head in the clouds... but leaving off the words and just doing an anchor for him and birds for me so its like a secret saying that only we have the key to!
2yr ago I asked H to take me to the gun range and teach me how to shoot a handgun. He talked about it a few times but never made it happen and well I didn't want to constantly nag... so it got dropped. So, Plan B is for male bff to take me to the gun range and teach me how to fire a handgun. Outside of that its hard to make plans not knowing what will happen with C19 between now and then.
Trying to stay focused on the party this Sunday. I have to order food on Wednesday but outside that I feel I have most of what I need. I pray for a day thats not too hot and will not rain - its outdoor event. Everyone please keep fingers crossed.
H has appt with atty in over a week. He is moving this forward.
I've done my best to give him time and space. I have broke NC in the past with regret. I know ultimately nothing has really changed. Everyone here has always pointed out that he was going to D me.
I knew it was coming but the reality is just overwhelming for the moment. I struggle with wanting to be whining and begging and pleading ---- but those things just show I'm low value and who wants someone of low value.
I will get through this but I so didn't want it to happen.
Just take a deep breath and understand it’s all part of the process. You are wise to not beg and plead and realize that it will just lower your value in his eyes.
Just take a deep breath and understand it’s all part of the process. You are wise to not beg and plead and realize that it will just lower your value in his eyes.
Did he text you this information?
No ----
It showed up on the calendar.
Yes, I was already in the process of trying to figure out how to remove myself from his calendar and vice versa.
I could ask that he do it but I would have to contact him so trying to avoid.
Trust me.... my gut is screaming at me to make contact with him. I'm absolutely terrified of this process... I mean terrified of all the crap that goes back and forth and feeling like he is screwing me over financially... its just a struggle.
We’ve already discussed it. As usual you’re not listening to me. My feelings have changed.
Your last sentence is your brain trying to rationalize your situation to ease the pain of rejection.
So listening to him would be doing nothing?
So I am not able to ask him how things are going to move forward with the D at all? No discussion about attys or how we want to proceed with things in regard to D?
I get it - its either WAY too late or WAY to early to discuss anything in regards to the R or M. I suppose him not having an atty helped me to continue with the idea that he just needed some time or space.
Correct as far as not trying to talk him out of it. You love him and respect his wishes and want him to be happy.
As far as D wise. When the time is right try to meet with him and come to an agreement on your own. If you can agree on everything it will save you lots of money.
I would not try to talk him out of it - I know that wasted time.
But, maybe we should have a talk about the next step forward? Having him confirm he has atty and while still trying to be amicable we let them handle it - thoughts on what we each want out of this as far as D???
Can I assume that you saw this on his calendar? If so, I wouldn't say one word to him about it at this time. Why do I say this? Since he knows that you can see his calendar, he may have just put that out there to get you to break your NC w/him. If this is an actual appointment, allow him to come to you and tell you that he's met w/an attorney. It's time that you allow him to take a lead in this particular dance. You've done all of the work and worrying, give the man a chance to contact you about this one particular item. In the meantime, I would still get my ducks in a row and be ready for when he does contact you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Can I assume that you saw this on his calendar? If so, I wouldn't say one word to him about it at this time. Why do I say this? Since he knows that you can see his calendar, he may have just put that out there to get you to break your NC w/him. If this is an actual appointment, allow him to come to you and tell you that he's met w/an attorney. It's time that you allow him to take a lead in this particular dance. You've done all of the work and worrying, give the man a chance to contact you about this one particular item. In the meantime, I would still get my ducks in a row and be ready for when he does contact you.
This is an excellence point --- along with LH
Yes, it was the shared calendar where I saw this and it was very vague - Teleconference. He would normally write down a name or something but he did not because I'm sure he would think I would look up any local attorney. I of course would never let him know I saw this.
He clearly tipped his hand 2 weeks ago when he admitted to seeing my calendar. So he is working under the assumption that I can also see his.
You've just kept me from making a huge mistake - I was thinking about contacting and meeting up to discuss moving forward with removal of names from accts, etc and where he stands with what he wants to do next.
The only reason I would contact is because when he last opened up he was angry that I had still not done as he had asked about the account --- not doing it is not listening to him right?
I'm stressed because this is a lack of control on my part. If I am afraid, which is what control is... what am I afraid of??? I'm afraid of the unknown, I'm afraid of disappointing him/giving him more reasons why this doesn't work, afraid of making more mistakes, afraid of him being gone for good. <<< that is some soul searching.
Write on here what you would say to him and I will give you his most likely response.
H- Can we talk about how things are going to be moving forward?
((((I know I cannot say - is this still our only option in moving forward?))))
Part of me feels like if he just had access to the money he wouldn't be pushing anything else at this time.
So you are considering giving him access to the money thinking it would delay and/or stop the D?
KC, you really need to get over your fear of D. Can it really be worse than having your H lie and cheat on you, then move out to be with the OW he is lying and cheating with? It is a legal procedure. If he ever wants to R with you it won't be hindered by the fact that you are D. No WAS that after D has considered Ring has said "Oh, I'd like to R with my LBS but darn it, we are D'd now." Trust me, if he ever wants to R being D'd will not stop him from trying. You being remarried. No obstacle will prevent him from trying to R! Not even if he is remarried himself. After all, he's already proven to be a lying cheater.
Last edited by Steve85; 07/06/2005:44 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
You've just kept me from making a huge mistake - I was thinking about contacting and meeting up to discuss moving forward with removal of names from accts, etc and where he stands with what he wants to do next.
"Illusion of action" I need to do something!
Originally Posted by KitCat
The only reason I would contact is because when he last opened up he was angry that I had still not done as he had asked about the account --- not doing it is not listening to him right?
NO! That's not it at all.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I'm stressed because this is a lack of control on my part.
Ahhh. You are being honest with yourself KK. That's rare for you.
Originally Posted by KitCat
If I am afraid, which is what control is... what am I afraid of??? I'm afraid of the unknown, I'm afraid of disappointing him/giving him more reasons why this doesn't work, afraid of making more mistakes, afraid of him being gone for good.
This is normal KK. The difference is not acting on it. 90% of the things we worry about never happen.
If you guys are both fair people you should be able to come to an agreement with little problem.
I wouldn't call breaking NC over this "stupid/foolish", maybe "rash/impulsive". I believe your intellectual side knows NC is best, and it's your emotional side that keeps you touching the stove.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I would not try to talk him out of it - I know that wasted time.
Good.
Originally Posted by KitCat
But, maybe we should have a talk about the next step forward?
If he's smart, the next step is he meets his attorney and follows their advice.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Having him confirm he has Atty
Why must you know now? You'll know within days of him having an active attorney when you're served.
Originally Posted by KitCat
and while still trying to be amicable we let them handle it
Controlling! You control if you're amicable and if you let your attorney handle the divorce. He controls if he's amicable and if he lets his attorney handle the divorce.
thoughts on what we each want out of this as far as D???
Had to post in 2 parts. Website is glitchy today!
Asset division is mostly determined by formulas and laws about which monies belong to whom, but if you have any particular concerns, tell your attorney. They are YOUR professional negotiator. You also may, as LH hinted, after you are served and there's a draft on the table being discussed handle a bit of the negotiations offline to save $$$ if there are too many back-and-forth cycles but you are making progress.
So you are considering giving him access to the money thinking it would delay and/or stop the D?
I am still following my atty's advice.
But, I feel that if he had those funds he might not be pursuing anything else at this time. I think he desperately needs cash/funds and feels these are 100% his. I think he burned through his half of the emergency fund that was divided months ago.
As for D... I've managed to deal with a lot of crap thrown my direction but to me D is final. He had some weird thing he talked about shortly after BD that his friends were telling him its possible that we could get back together after D since we don't hate each other... it was weird but I'm like if you can't sit down and work through this with me now I would never trust that you would put in the work needed to commit to being remarried.
I walk when D is final.
I suppose that is why I've put undue pressure on myself and him to find a resolution before that step - stupid I know. I can look back and see that I should have just left him alone and stopped taking his calls some time ago.
But, I feel that if he had those funds he might not be pursuing anything else at this time. I think he desperately needs cash/funds and feels these are 100% his. I think he burned through his half of the emergency fund that was divided months ago.
Mindreading. More then likely his GF is putting pressure on him to get D finalized.
Originally Posted by KitCat
As for D... I've managed to deal with a lot of crap thrown my direction but to me D is final. He had some weird thing he talked about shortly after BD that his friends were telling him its possible that we could get back together after D since we don't hate each other... it was weird but I'm like if you can't sit down and work through this with me now I would never trust that you would put in the work needed to commit to being remarried.
Every LBS has a friend who has said these exact words.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I walk when D is final.
Not sure I am buying it.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I suppose that is why I've put undue pressure on myself and him to find a resolution before that step - stupid I know. I can look back and see that I should have just left him alone and stopped taking his calls some time ago.
The only reason I would contact is because when he last opened up he was angry that I had still not done as he had asked about the account --- not doing it is not listening to him right?
NO! That's not it at all.
Not sure what you mean here?
Quote
Originally Posted by KitCat
I'm stressed because this is a lack of control on my part.
Ahhh. You are being honest with yourself KK. That's rare for you.
I've been driven into action by anxiety so I've really tried to make myself sit and think about my reaction and why (or coming here when I'm not sure) SURPRISE!!! I have been working on myself... LOL
Quote
Originally Posted by KitCat
If I am afraid, which is what control is... what am I afraid of??? I'm afraid of the unknown, I'm afraid of disappointing him/giving him more reasons why this doesn't work, afraid of making more mistakes, afraid of him being gone for good.
This is normal KK. The difference is not acting on it. 90% of the things we worry about never happen.
If you guys are both fair people you should be able to come to an agreement with little problem.
I'm trying to realize where my feelings of control come from. It hurts because I can look back in my M where I thought I was just doing the nice thing... clearly my H would be upset with me and ask me to stop... but did I? WHY? Because I thought I knew better than him??? NO - my H is a smart intelligent man why did I keep doing something he didn't want me to do??? Because I knew better??? OMG... I can't believe how I disrespected my H. No wonder he was suffering and wanted out.
Of course this is all too late to him... and what hurts is how I see it all now. Perhaps if I had remained ignorant I wouldn't be in so much pain... the pain of just wishing he cared enough to see I get it now.
For the longest time he was adamant about not wanting to screw me over but who knows where he is at if he is angry that he has to go get an atty. But, your right. There is no sense worrying about it now since there is nothing I can do about it.
For the longest time he was adamant about not wanting to screw me over but who knows where he is at if he is angry that he has to go get an atty. But, your right. There is no sense worrying about it now since there is nothing I can do about it.
I always read his claims to not want to screw you over as attempts to manipulate you rather than genuine, especially since they were often accompanied by requests to do something against your attorney's advice such as release funds or get access to his motorcycle without an appraisal in advance.
You're right--you don't know what he's feeling. My guess is you are correct he's in a hurry to unlock his funds or appease his GF--and if he's in a hurry your attorney will figure that out and it may give you additional leverage. Whatever he's feeling, he may not be feeling in two weeks.
For the longest time he was adamant about not wanting to screw me over but who knows where he is at if he is angry that he has to go get an atty. But, your right. There is no sense worrying about it now since there is nothing I can do about it.
I always read his claims to not want to screw you over as attempts to manipulate you rather than genuine, especially since they were often accompanied by requests to do something against your attorney's advice such as release funds or get access to his motorcycle without an appraisal in advance.
Interesting... now that you make me think about it EVERYTIME he has said he doesn't want to screw me over something was happening... I kicked him out... I filed for S... I filed FO... I took funds out of a joint acct... He lost his first atty...
Quote
You're right--you don't know what he's feeling. My guess is you are correct he's in a hurry to unlock his funds or appease his GF--and if he's in a hurry your attorney will figure that out and it may give you additional leverage. Whatever he's feeling, he may not be feeling in two weeks.
That's a good point. And, that is why I wasn't able to go through with anything because what if I could mount some patience - what would things look like 30 days or 60 days?
I've put my phone in a safe place. My gut is still telling me to reach out to him... but I must do the opposite of what I want to do.... that is the correct move.
The only reason I would contact is because when he last opened up he was angry that I had still not done as he had asked about the account --- not doing it is not listening to him right? NO! That's not it at all.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Not sure what you mean here?
There is a difference between hearing and understanding his feelings and jumping to his demand for you to close out an account.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Of course this is all too late to him... and what hurts is how I see it all now. Perhaps if I had remained ignorant I wouldn't be in so much pain... the pain of just wishing he cared enough to see I get it now.
Look KK I can see you are working hard but it is clearly all about manipulation and control. It's gonna take some time before you actually get it and are able truly act without fear being the motivator. You can't undo 51 years in four months. I don't tell you 2-5 years to discourage you. That's just the reality. It will take your husband 2-5 years of consistent actions to see you really changed and it will take 2-5 years for him to seek the cracks in his and his GFs foundation. You won't have to tell him your reading books, he will know you are reading books.
Of course this is all too late to him... and what hurts is how I see it all now. Perhaps if I had remained ignorant I wouldn't be in so much pain... the pain of just wishing he cared enough to see I get it now.
Look KK I can see you are working hard but it is clearly all about manipulation and control. It's gonna take some time before you actually get it and are able truly act without fear being the motivator. You can't undo 51 years in four months. I don't tell you 2-5 years to discourage you. That's just the reality. It will take your husband 2-5 years of consistent actions to see you really changed and it will take 2-5 years for him to seek the cracks in his and his GFs foundation. You won't have to tell him your reading books, he will know you are reading books.
For sure I'm a strong personality with a hard drive. A lot of issues came up over time in our M. I recognize them now. And, I get it... you'd be surprised how much I have changed just recognizing how my actions were coming across.
Even though our interactions have been limited I'm sure H has noticed but I totally get that he isn't going to believe that I've suddenly changed completely. But, I have been approaching things with a different set of eyes and ears.
Either way I know I still have more work to do.
And, I have to really come to acceptance that he has found his happy place and its not with me any longer.
[For sure I'm a strong personality with a hard drive. A lot of issues came up over time in our M. I recognize them now. And, I get it... you'd be surprised how much I have changed just recognizing how my actions were coming across.
You'd be surprised how much we can tell about a person from their posts on this forum.
Originally Posted by KitCat
Even though our interactions have been limited I'm sure H has noticed but I totally get that he isn't going to believe that I've suddenly changed completely.
Nope he believes it's manipulation.
Originally Posted by KitCat
And, I have to really come to acceptance that he has found his happy place and its not with me any longer.
That's the million dollar question. Can you accept this as his reality?
And, I have to really come to acceptance that he has found his happy place and its not with me any longer.
That's the million dollar question. Can you accept this as his reality?
Don't have a choice do I??? I mean I don't like it. I'm not happy over it. I can't change it. I can't control it. If that is his truth I have to accept it.
So you were ow with his first W and were engaged before he was D?
Yep. Just like in the Justin Timberlake song.
I had nothing to do with his first marriage ending.
We met months after his legal separation. I was under the impression he was D. I believe there had been dating with both of them. I didn't go out with him after our first date for nearly 6 weeks. Its complicated. What I saw was a man being railroaded and his kids with held. He will tell anyone even now that I was crucial in helping him understand his rights and how he was being abused when it came to his kids.
He proposed after 5 months of dating and he moved in 4mo before his D was final. I'm not proud of that now. I did not break up his M, that was already done. I do believe my H's narrative of the M because I was witness to on going issues for 10yr. It was 10yr of her with holding his kids repeatedly for months at a time (the atty file folder is HUGE.)
Anyway, with that being said. I know my H. I suppose that's why my heart breaks so much.
I recently went on a date who just got out of a 5 year relationship and he got into it with her before he was legally divorced. I chose not to go out with him again for that reason. Usually someone has major unresolved issues when they don’t take a second to heal or learn from their divorce .
And a guy who proposes while he’s still married??? HUGE red flag! It seems as if it’s his MO. Find a back plan when the primary plan isn’t working .
I recently went on a date who just got out of a 5 year relationship and he got into it with her before he was legally divorced. I chose not to go out with him again for that reason. Usually someone has major unresolved issues when they don’t take a second to heal or learn from their divorce .
And a guy who proposes while he’s still married??? HUGE red flag! It seems as if it’s his MO. Find a back plan when the primary plan isn’t working .
I know
I did not give a lot of details but it was like it was just meant to be. I kept trying to put on the brakes. I fell so hard and so fast and he was so happy for the longest time.
As I said I am not proud and I carry some guilt/shame. And, frankly this was unfair to my step kids. I can't change the past. I do try to own it.
I recognize my controlling behaviors and how dismissive and disrespectful I was of my H. I'm in a pickle of my own making. I would give anything to not lose my H or my M. I guess that's clear.
Today I've definitely been driving the struggle bus. I know I have to drop the rope and walk away.
I can certainly understand the shame you are feeling. I remember those feelings very vividly and really struggled with that. You have to remember that this isn’t all about you. Did you make mistakes? Sure. Do your mistakes justify the actions your H has taken? Not even close.
Your H clearly has issues that have nothing to do with you. He had these issues long before you even met him, keep that in mind. You have been willing to move mountains, he hasn’t and that’s nothing for you to be ashamed of. I would bet a mortgage payment that his relationship with OW will not last because he has done nothing to work on his internal issues. It’s just a matter of time. And it don’t care if they have known each other since high school, their relationship is built on a house of cards and it will getting windy sooner or later.
If you are still unwilling to invest in therapy (there are some amazing and compassionate therapists out there), then I would encourage you to shift gears and instead of reading relationship books, read books about codependency and healing toxic shame. There’s lots of great YouTube videos out there as well.
The time is now, Kit. Start investing in yourself.
I can certainly understand the shame you are feeling. I remember those feelings very vividly and really struggled with that. You have to remember that this isn’t all about you. Did you make mistakes? Sure. Do your mistakes justify the actions your H has taken? Not even close.
Your H clearly has issues that have nothing to do with you. He had these issues long before you even met him, keep that in mind. You have been willing to move mountains, he hasn’t and that’s nothing for you to be ashamed of. I would bet a mortgage payment that his relationship with OW will not last because he has done nothing to work on his internal issues. It’s just a matter of time. And it don’t care if they have known each other since high school, their relationship is built on a house of cards and it will getting windy sooner or later.
If you are still unwilling to invest in therapy (there are some amazing and compassionate therapists out there), then I would encourage you to shift gears and instead of reading relationship books, read books about codependency and healing toxic shame. There’s lots of great YouTube videos out there as well.
The time is now, Kit. Start investing in yourself.
Thank you for all that!
You bet I've been willing to move mountains!!! But, wasn't my H doing something when he was here- hoping that things would change??? I wasn't getting it. Not even close but he was still coming home and each day a lot more discouraged and unhappy than the day before.
I'm in a lot of hurt right now because my H didn't feel respected - that disrespect led to a lot of emotional turmoil resulting in a relationship that felt hopeless to him.
I don't excuse his choice to immediately become involved with someone else. I recognize that as a band aid.
AND - I hear you. That you expect this relationship to fail. But, Thornton my H has been able to eliminate so many of the stressors that trigger his life to be unbearable here. He no longer has the commute. He has a close group of friends-that of course involve him and OW. He is close to his parents and goes out the family farm many days a week. He states "in general" he is very happy.
I've considered coaching instead of therapy. IDK. Working on it. I am doing a lot of Brene Brown right now and I realize I have a lot of shame to deal with.
I've considered apologizing to my SS20, SD19 and this is going WAY out there because H's XW made big chunks of my life difficult but I've even considered apologizing to her as well. I'm not sure this is the best action. Am I doing it for me? Then I probably shouldn't. I should only do it if I'm truly doing it for them. I still need to sit with that more.
At the very least being on here is keeping me off my phone where the temptation is too great at the moment.
I’m a big proponent of relationship books and have read over 25 myself. You have to get to the root of your issues and IMO you can only do that in therapy. These are not you left the cap of the toothpaste issues. Control and unhealthy attachments are not something that can be treated by a BB video. Coaching would IMO be a complete waste of money right now.
If the therapy issue was a 1:1 issue, I wonder if group therapy or online therapy would address concerns. The first means you're never alone with them, the second means they never know who you are.
After some serious soul searching last night I've decided to move forward and reach a settlement with my H.
This is a separation settlement and it frees up the financial order. I will not move it to D at this time. I need some peace and I need to stop my fairytale.
LH is right. There is just a lot of anger --- anger for things I did, anger for things I didn't do and anger for the things he did because of it all. He isn't ready to let go of that anger, but I am.
I've reached a point where I can see a big chunk of my mistakes... certainly not all as I'm still working through it all but I'm at point where I can apologize with sincerity and mean it and know I can do better moving forward. I'm not sure I'm about forgiveness yet. I suppose that comes much later.
KC, this post makes me sad. Why? Because you continue to blame yourself. No matter how many times we tell you that NOTHING you did justifies what he did. It isn't even logical. "I was a bad W so he went out and lied and cheated on me." Huh? That is like saying :"The kitchen faucet leaked so he burned down the whole house."
The only forgiveness you should be worrying about right now is forgiving yourself. I don't think you have that ability without help, but I won't kick that dead horse again.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
This is a separation settlement and it frees up the financial order.
Why?! This was his goal, not yours. What is driving you to push for a settlement a.s.a.p.??
The advice we all gave was to let go of control and sit for a week--let him see an attorney, have his attorney contact yours, and then have your attorney can help you get what the court deems fair.
Steve is right. You continue to blame yourself and excuse your H's actions. Like I said in an earlier post, I can relate to how you feel. I struggled for months and months blaming myself, and I sometimes have to catch myself when I start going down that rabbit hole again. It's a horrible feeling.
Clearly you are reacting to your emotions right now because you saw that H made an appt with an attorney. If you release those funds (against your lawyers advice), I can see your H using that money to buy OW a big, fat engagement ring.
Kit - slow down. This is going to take a long time to resolve itself one way or another. But don't sabotage yourself by hoping releasing the funds will get H to pump the brakes on getting an attorney. He's going to take that money and use it on the OW. F that.
KC, this post makes me sad. Why? Because you continue to blame yourself. No matter how many times we tell you that NOTHING you did justifies what he did. It isn't even logical. "I was a bad W so he went out and lied and cheated on me." Huh? That is like saying :"The kitchen faucet leaked so he burned down the whole house."
The only forgiveness you should be worrying about right now is forgiving yourself. I don't think you have that ability without help, but I won't kick that dead horse again.
I had this discussion with my mother this morning.
I've been doing the work and looking at my own short comings. That is what I am taking responsibility for. MY actions. My mom stated that H hasn't apologized and he needs to for X, Y, Z. I told my mother just because I'm at a place where I can apologize and look at my actions and the role they played is completely independent of my H being at a place to do the work and apologize. Maybe never does. I do not control that. Just because he didn't apologize doesn't excuse me from doing so.
I agree Steve85. He made his own choices. I'm not excusing his behavior just because I took responsibility for mine. The affair is a symptom of M in trouble but not the cause. I wasn't talking about forgiving him but forgiving myself for the behaviors I am responsible for.
After some serious soul searching last night I've decided to move forward and reach a settlement with my H.
I am sorry KK but you are trying to BS us here. You are looking for a reason to pursue. Look at me over here H. I am freeing up your money! Look at me!
Originally Posted by KitCat
This is a separation settlement and it frees up the financial order. I will not move it to D at this time. I need some peace and I need to stop my fairytale.
Ok. So when this doesn't work what is your next play?
Originally Posted by KitCat
LH is right. There is just a lot of anger --- anger for things I did, anger for things I didn't do and anger for the things he did because of it all. He isn't ready to let go of that anger, but I am.
So you think this will dissipate the anger? This is going to sound really mean but they are going to get a good laugh about this move on your part.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I've reached a point where I can see a big chunk of my mistakes... certainly not all as I'm still working through it all but I'm at point where I can apologize with sincerity and mean it and know I can do better moving forward. I'm not sure I'm about forgiveness yet. I suppose that comes much later.
I think you better wait on that apology because I think the obituary and FB postings are just the beginning based on his past history.
KK I am not against you giving him the money that is rightfully his just do it right now based on your urge to try to do something. You will surely regret it down the road.
This is a separation settlement and it frees up the financial order.
Why?! This was his goal, not yours. What is driving you to push for a settlement a.s.a.p.??
The advice we all gave was to let go of control and sit for a week--let him see an attorney, have his attorney contact yours, and then have your attorney can help you get what the court deems fair.
Because right now - as it stands... the settlement he is proposing is 100% in my favor exponentially. That I cannot deny.
Trust me I will do nothing, sign nothing without my atty. But, what he is wanting settled seriously benefits me greatly.
[quote=CWarrior]Trust me I will do nothing, sign nothing without my atty. But, what he is wanting settled seriously benefits me greatly.
If your attorney believes this settlement is better than the law entitles you to, that's wonderful!
If this is only better than your ex convinced you you're entitled to (his belief vs. the law's belief on shared monies), or ties up your potential liquidity into his home, slow down. I only put those caveats in there to help you consider other angles. I suspect your attorney will give you a good rundown if you ask. My attorney usually needs a couple of days to assess a written offer. When your H displays anger, you tend to want to release the discomfort you feel, and in the past that sometimes meant doing things not best for you.
After some serious soul searching last night I've decided to move forward and reach a settlement with my H.
I am sorry KK but you are trying to BS us here. You are looking for a reason to pursue. Look at me over here H. I am freeing up your money! Look at me!
I think I want peace. I don't want to keep living my life thinking one story in my head and then be served with D papers out of the blue.
Quote
Originally Posted by KitCat
This is a separation settlement and it frees up the financial order. I will not move it to D at this time. I need some peace and I need to stop my fairytale.
Ok. So when this doesn't work what is your next play?
Moving on? Letting go? Stop living in denial that since he isn't doing X that must mean he is having second thoughts?
Quote
Originally Posted by KitCat
LH is right. There is just a lot of anger --- anger for things I did, anger for things I didn't do and anger for the things he did because of it all. He isn't ready to let go of that anger, but I am.
So you think this will dissipate the anger? This is going to sound really mean but they are going to get a good laugh about this move on your part.
Maybe. But, I can't live my life worry about what H is or is not doing.
I understand what you stated that his anger will take a very long time to dissipate and there is nothing I can do to speed that up. His timeline is not my timeline.
Quote
Originally Posted by KitCat
I've reached a point where I can see a big chunk of my mistakes... certainly not all as I'm still working through it all but I'm at point where I can apologize with sincerity and mean it and know I can do better moving forward. I'm not sure I'm about forgiveness yet. I suppose that comes much later.
I think you better wait on that apology because I think the obituary and FB postings are just the beginning based on his past history.
KK I am not against you giving him the money that is rightfully his just do it right now based on your urge to try to do something. You will surely regret it down the road.
Let's not get on the path of regrets... LOL. The settlement he is offering is completely in my favor. I don't want to be in a position where I cut my nose off to spite my face.
There is a lot of hurt on both sides. We have been legally separated for 4 1/2mo now. I need to let go. No doing the settlement is me hanging on to my H. Everyone here keeps telling me to drop the rope. LH I'm exhausted.
H snooped and found my plans for Mexico vacation and was livid... thinking that he can't afford diddly squat and here I am taking a vacation... (he has no idea how much I struggle financially right now with 2 different attorney retainers, S18 going to college in 1 month, and he has no idea that I'm not paying for this vacation - he let his own mind and demons get the best of him.)
I don't hate my H. I forgive him. I want peace for myself.
[quote=CWarrior]Trust me I will do nothing, sign nothing without my atty. But, what he is wanting settled seriously benefits me greatly.
If your attorney believes this settlement is better than the law entitles you to, that's wonderful!
If this is only better than your ex convinced you you're entitled to (his belief vs. the law's belief on shared monies), or ties up your potential liquidity into his home, slow down. I only put those caveats in there to help you consider other angles. I suspect your attorney will give you a good rundown if you ask. My attorney usually needs a couple of days to assess a written offer. Good luck and go KitCat!
I absolutely will not accept anything my atty hasn't reviewed but yes... this is completely in my favor. It comes down to splitting retirement accts at this point. He has given me a settlement on everything else - it needs to be in writing so he doesn't get angry and change his mind.
For example- when he found out I'm going to Mexico in September he became resentful he was paying for S18 car and is unable to take a vacation and can't afford a new vehicle or to get his fixed...
Of course the snarky me (let's face it we all have a snarky side) was like... well... you wanted the simple life. You want those sweet vacations we took you need to hook up with a woman with a higher earning potential... LMAO. I know not nice but I think going there with humor helps me move forward.
Sooooooo... are you canceling the trip because Hubby is livid?
KK my heart breaks for you because although troubled I think you have a good heart.
I just wish you understood you can't fix this and doing nothing is actually doing something.
Although it's impossible for you to see at the time, this is 100% survivable no matter how it goes. I've been happier divorced than I was for years being married. I 100% believe in marriage, and I miss the feeling and comfort of "being married" but I do not miss my ex at all, and her behavior should not have been tolerated for as long as it was. At the time I couldn't see it, I thought she was the most wonderful woman ever, and that certainly I could fix this. I was wrong on both counts.
This is the value of hind sight, and unfortunately for most people, you can't absorb it until you're ready.
H snooped and found my plans for Mexico vacation and was livid... thinking that he can't afford diddly squat and here I am taking a vacation... (he has no idea how much I struggle financially right now with 2 different attorney retainers, S18 going to college in 1 month, and he has no idea that I'm not paying for this vacation - he let his own mind and demons get the best of him.)
So...being able to afford to go to Mexico is worse than porking some slut, and leaving your W to go pork her some more? Sorry to be graphic and blunt, but the excuses LBSs make for a lying cheater are so sad.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I don't hate my H. I forgive him. I want peace for myself.
There cannot be true forgiveness without repentance. I am glad to see you willing to let go of his mistakes and not hold them against him, but you can never truly forgive him until he is sorry for them.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am curious what this apology looks like in your mind? I get the feeling that it is filled with expectations. You are going to come away disappointed. He doesn't deserve an apology right now.
You can work towards forgiving yourself and getting yourself to a healthy/happy place. That should be the goal.
You are exhausted because you have been holding on for dear life. It is time to drop the rope.
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
He cannot even begin to compare buying "his" new place/house to your going on a trip to Mexico. I'm sorry, but I do not feel sorry for him if he has to tighten his belt a bit to make ends meet because he's walked away from his commitment to a marriage, wife, home and step son.
The only person you need to forgive is yourself. You've been beating yourself up for quite some time and now it's time to forgive yourself and stop thinking that the breakup is all your fault...it is not. He didn't put forth all that much effort to call a little meeting and sit down and talk to you about things. He waited until the time was right for him to leave and generally, the ow helps them to make that choice. If she was in the wings and helping him to build up the nerve to walk, then this was an exit affair.
Do not, and I repeat, do not take on all of the guilt of what happened. It's time to forgive yourself and turn this around...hold your head up high, back straight and repeat over and over again "I am a good person, I did not go out there and have affair on my spouse".
KC...you can do this and btw, please do not contact him...sit on the knowledge that you have about his calendar and let's see if he truly does have an attorney or if he's trying to manipulate you into doing something that your attorney has advised you not to do. Sometimes doing nothing is the best way to go.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am curious what this apology looks like in your mind? I get the feeling that it is filled with expectations. You are going to come away disappointed. He doesn't deserve an apology right now.
You can work towards forgiving yourself and getting yourself to a healthy/happy place. That should be the goal.
You are exhausted because you have been holding on for dear life. It is time to drop the rope.
You are right. I mean don't get me wrong. I'm filled with true remorse for a lot of my behaviors. But, you are right. Somewhere down deep I want to plant some seed in my H that... "oh she gets it now", "she really gets it now"
^^^Thanks for calling me out on my BS.
LH you are going to love this next piece!!!!
If you remember in my H's last statement that he talked about feeling pinned, restricted and ultamatems and life living in fear is no life worth living? So there was a time when went on a motorbike ride that I insisted my H wear his helmet. REALLY??? My H is a grown man he should be able to make his own decisions about his own safety. It really made him angry.
Why would I do that? Why would I exert control like he wasn't an adult? Well, control is based in fear. What was I afraid of? I was afraid of him being seriously hurt. We've all seen the statistics right? Well LH from my childhood my own father was riding a motorbike when I was 6? Had a very very bad accident and was told the only reason he survived was the helmet that at the time was required by law. I remember my mom being very uspet and getting woken up to got to hospital late at night and watching my dad recover. It was years before my dad would get on a bike again after that. So I was afraid of my H getting hurt - I exerted control and made him resentful rather than letting him make his own decision about his safety.
Same with smoking. My H was respectful and never did it around me or in the house. But, it bothered me greatly. I did spend a great deal of time nagging him but in the last 2-3 years I stopped because I realized it wasn't working. Why did I freak out so much that my H smoked? I was worried for his health. Terrified of lung cancer. Was my H not an educated man? Could he not make his own health care decisions? I grew up with father who chained smoked in the house. I couldn't stand the smell it made me retch. I grew up in the age where they crammed fear into small children to not smoke by showing the horrible nasty things that happen -- the black sooty lungs got passed around. I grew up terrified my father was going to die from lung disease. It was probably a legimate fear but it was extremely over exaggerated when I was younger. So I'm letting my childhood triggers and fears try to dictate my H's behavior. Its like this light bulb went off when I started understanding my controlling behaviors and how I micromanaged EVERYTHING to the point of exhaustion... My H is a very competent adult - my trying to manage his health was completely disrespectful.
Did I have the best intentions - I did... I was showing how much I cared. (that is where my head is.... I wasn't taking the time to see how my actions were coming across.)
Right now my H sees me as this person living in fear... but that's just because of how I tried to manage him.
PART 2 is this:
NOW last fall in my head I was looking forward to getting out on the motorbike more with my H. Going to this restaurant an hour away... this place that place. However, I never spoke of that to my H. I kept in my head. I just figured summer would be here and I would say hey lets go here... or can we do this?
My H was under the impression I did not like the motorbike - why? Because that is how my cautious actions led him to feel. I never spoke of my true desires to my H. I expected my H to read my mind?
H is completely pissed saying how can you even go sailing when you wouldn't even go out of the fishing boat with me? I kid you not last fall I told myself I would have my H take me fishing no less than 2 times this summer. I booked a charter fishing trip last spring for just the two of us on vacation and loved it! The plan was to take another charter trip last March --- obviously he BD me and then COVID so it wouldn't have happened anyway.
But, again I expected my H to mind read and know that I wanted to go fishing with him this summer. I mean I could have spoken up last fall by simply saying "I can't wait for warmer weather so we can go out on the boat together" He thinks I hate the boat and don't want to fish with him. How could I have been so dumb?
Of course the saddest part now is that telling him any of this will come across as desperate and begging/pleading. He won't believe its the honest truth (because it is). So I have to sit with the knowledge that I expected my H to read my mind...
That I just needed more pushing... if he would just keep asking and involving me (because I really wanted too). But, my H states that if he needed to push me more then that meant I really didn't want it. Why did I expect my H to push me more? All I can think of is that I wanted to feel wanted??? Was that me being needy???
^^^I don't have a good reason for that but deep in my heart I wanted him to keep asking me... but also I planned this summer to surprise him by me asking him.
^^^None of this is excusing my H's behavior or choices. I'm just trying to find a way to live with mine. I was steering this boat and ran it aground.
Soooooo... you wanted him to wear a helmet, quit smoking and you don't like fishing and you put on a few pounds. Yep, that's grounds for an affair and divorce (insert LH eye roll).
Here's the bottom line. History dictates when things get tough (which they do in marriage) your H monkey branches searching for happiness. This will certainly happen to luck lady (another LH eye roll) number 3.
So you told him to wear a helmet and to stop smoking (a disgusting, deadly, and EXPENSIVE habit by the way). And you didn't go fishing with him. And he thought you didn't like the motorbike.
Wow you were awful KC! How did he put up with you this long?
By the way, my W makes me wear a seatbelt every time we are in a vehicle together. She hates the smell of coffee and lets me know it every time I drink a cup. She has never gone hunting with me once, in the 18 years that it has been my passion. And I've owned an ATV since 2013 and she's never ridden it or rode on it with me.
Yet I've never porked a slut and accused her of being overbearing and controlling and THAT'S why I did it.
HE AIN'T THE VICTIM HERE.
KC, you can write this prediction down. I've made it before and you dismissed it. But I've been doing this long enough to know the truth about As and how they start. Here is the prediction:
One day you will find out that he and OW were involved LONG before you knew about it. And that all of this other stuff that you attach so much significance to is meaningless. That none of it caused his A. And that you've been agonizing over all of it as if your mistakes FORCED him into the arms of another woman for no reason. One day that delusion will be shattered by the truth.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
H made a comment about my family not liking him. I told him that wasn't true. I mean my family has my back. I was at am extreme low point and my mom kind of came in and took over by pressuring an atty, making the appt, making the call to start paperwork. I was so non-functional shortly after BD.
He stated my mom was why we couldn't work this out/be together. My mom did do something some time ago that I wish she had not. It was crossing a boundary. I was not happy she did it. I understand why she did it and its pointless to lay blame on any one party.
This happened 4yr ago?
H stated my mom couldn't mind her own business and I tried to laugh by saying "now you know where I get it from" But, he was right. That should have never happened.
If he was thinking recon - would that really weigh heavily??? I only have my perception of the event and I'm trying to see it from his side. Would that incident from 4yr ago truly be a reason we couldn't salvage our M? I mean he brought it up after all this time like it was yesterday so it must have deeply hurt him or he sees it a huge red flag.
"I wanted him to wear a helmet and quit smoking" is a tiny compared to "He cheated on you and left."
Yes, insisting he wear a helmet was controlling. It would've been better to tell him you prefer he wear a helmet for his safety, or that you won't ride with him because you don't want to see what happens, or you won't let the kids ride with him because you don't want them to see irresponsible behavior.
Originally Posted by KitCat
My H is a very competent adult - my trying to manage his health was completely disrespectful.
Most teens understand the value of seatbelts and helmets. His life, his choices though.
H made a comment about my family not liking him. I told him that wasn't true. I mean my family has my back. I was at am extreme low point and my mom kind of came in and took over by pressuring an atty, making the appt, making the call to start paperwork. I was so non-functional shortly after BD.
He stated my mom was why we couldn't work this out/be together. My mom did do something some time ago that I wish she had not. It was crossing a boundary. I was not happy she did it. I understand why she did it and its pointless to lay blame on any one party.
This happened 4yr ago?
H stated my mom couldn't mind her own business and I tried to laugh by saying "now you know where I get it from" But, he was right. That should have never happened.
If he was thinking recon - would that really weigh heavily??? I only have my perception of the event and I'm trying to see it from his side. Would that incident from 4yr ago truly be a reason we couldn't salvage our M? I mean he brought it up after all this time like it was yesterday so it must have deeply hurt him or he sees it a huge red flag.
I don't know.
No. Just no. After all this time you are still believing anything that comes out of his lying mouth. Digging up the past. Rewriting history. Changing the narrative to excuse their own behavior. All behaviors of lying cheaters. Read any sitch here and you will see the same things going on. Don't fall for it.
He married you, not your mom.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So you told him to wear a helmet and to stop smoking (a disgusting, deadly, and EXPENSIVE habit by the way). And you didn't go fishing with him. And he thought you didn't like the motorbike.
Wow you were awful KC! How did he put up with you this long?
By the way, my W makes me wear a seatbelt every time we are in a vehicle together. She hates the smell of coffee and lets me know it every time I drink a cup. She has never gone hunting with me once, in the 18 years that it has been my passion. And I've owned an ATV since 2013 and she's never ridden it or rode on it with me.
Yet I've never porked a slut and accused her of being overbearing and controlling and THAT'S why I did it.
HE AIN'T THE VICTIM HERE.
KC, you can write this prediction down. I've made it before and you dismissed it. But I've been doing this long enough to know the truth about As and how they start. Here is the prediction:
One day you will find out that he and OW were involved LONG before you knew about it. And that all of this other stuff that you attach so much significance to is meaningless. That none of it caused his A. And that you've been agonizing over all of it as if your mistakes FORCED him into the arms of another woman for no reason. One day that delusion will be shattered by the truth.
Of course my actions/choices whatever they were do not excuse the end choice he made.
WAS YOUR WIFE CONTROLLING???
Was you wife trying to micromanage your life?
Did your wife come to you with 3 different used trucks that fit a budget that she wanted and suggested you test drive and figure out which of the 3 you liked the best?
If you wanted a new truck would you have to harrass your wife to give in to your desires of the truck you wanted if the pricetag was more than she was comfortable spending?
WE went shopping for bikes --- I wanted to make him happy and to enjoy the good money he made. We found a bike he liked and it would be good for us... he had to ask me if we could afford it. I wanted to make him happy but wouldn't he have been more happy if he could have just gone out and bought a bike all on his own?
I became so controlling.... and learning that's based on fear then H was right I'm living a life of fear.
You are perfectly fine to tell me what an A** H is but please know I was not the best person I could have been. I'm quite disappointed in myself. And, I recognized that he was unhappy for a long time.
This isn't going to be fixed by me having multiple "a-ha" moments and changing myself. I've inflicted some pretty deep scars.
Back to your earlier questions - I am of course deeply hurt but I forgive. He of course hasn't asked for it. But, I think if I am to be able to let go of him I need to let go of the hurt which is why I choose to forgive.
You are being irrational right now because you are out of options. You are dying to pursue (even though we have told you it never works), Just do it and get it over with and send him the letter apologizing for everything humanly possible you did in the relationship.
If you need to pour your heart out and explain your eternal and unconditional love for him in order to feel you left no stone unturned and to get closure, then you should do it.
Before you do it, I would just ask you to consider what will happen if you write the best letter of your life, one that would make anyone who reads it tear up over the sheer beauty of the language. What if you write that letter, he reads it, and nothing changes.
What are you going to do then?
Is there any chance that you will then feel you didn't express yourself clearly enough, and need to write another letter?
I guess what I'm asking is "where is the finish line?" At what point do you feel you will trust that he fully understands how you feel and still chooses not to reconcile?
I hate to ask you that question, but I also don't want to see you forever stuck.
If you pour your heart out and nothing changes, what comes next? There is nothing you can do right now to end the affair or get your H back.
How does that feel? Crappy right? Used to fixing things? Used to finding a way? Familiar with the feeling that if you work hard enough, anything is possible? None of that applies now, there is nothing you can do. You need to surrender to that, grieve it and find peace with it. Fighting against it sets you up as their adversary, pushes them together and you away. If you continue to actively try to disrupt the affair and get your H back, you will only dig your hole deeper and deeper, and that will be a debt that will take you a long time to recover from.
So you told him to wear a helmet and to stop smoking (a disgusting, deadly, and EXPENSIVE habit by the way). And you didn't go fishing with him. And he thought you didn't like the motorbike.
Wow you were awful KC! How did he put up with you this long?
By the way, my W makes me wear a seatbelt every time we are in a vehicle together. She hates the smell of coffee and lets me know it every time I drink a cup. She has never gone hunting with me once, in the 18 years that it has been my passion. And I've owned an ATV since 2013 and she's never ridden it or rode on it with me.
Yet I've never porked a slut and accused her of being overbearing and controlling and THAT'S why I did it.
HE AIN'T THE VICTIM HERE.
KC, you can write this prediction down. I've made it before and you dismissed it. But I've been doing this long enough to know the truth about As and how they start. Here is the prediction:
One day you will find out that he and OW were involved LONG before you knew about it. And that all of this other stuff that you attach so much significance to is meaningless. That none of it caused his A. And that you've been agonizing over all of it as if your mistakes FORCED him into the arms of another woman for no reason. One day that delusion will be shattered by the truth.
Of course my actions/choices whatever they were do not excuse the end choice he made.
WAS YOUR WIFE CONTROLLING???
Was you wife trying to micromanage your life?
Did your wife come to you with 3 different used trucks that fit a budget that she wanted and suggested you test drive and figure out which of the 3 you liked the best?
If you wanted a new truck would you have to harrass your wife to give in to your desires of the truck you wanted if the pricetag was more than she was comfortable spending?
WE went shopping for bikes --- I wanted to make him happy and to enjoy the good money he made. We found a bike he liked and it would be good for us... he had to ask me if we could afford it. I wanted to make him happy but wouldn't he have been more happy if he could have just gone out and bought a bike all on his own?
I became so controlling.... and learning that's based on fear then H was right I'm living a life of fear.
You are perfectly fine to tell me what an A** H is but please know I was not the best person I could have been. I'm quite disappointed in myself. And, I recognized that he was unhappy for a long time.
This isn't going to be fixed by me having multiple "a-ha" moments and changing myself. I've inflicted some pretty deep scars.
Back to your earlier questions - I am of course deeply hurt but I forgive. He of course hasn't asked for it. But, I think if I am to be able to let go of him I need to let go of the hurt which is why I choose to forgive.
About the things she cares about? YES! Heaven forbid if I load the dishwasher incorrectly! Or if I put something away in the wrong place.
Human-beings are flawed. ALL OF US. We are controlling in our own ways. We are passive-aggressive when it suits us, manipulative when it suits us. We have our own hidden agendas.
However, when we stand before God and witnesses and proclaim vows to each other, I never hear a "but, not if you are controlling and flawed!".
"I,KC's husband, take thee,KC, to be my wedded wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, unless you are controlling and flawed, for better, for worse unless you are controlling and flawed, for richer, for poorer unless you are controlling and flawed, in sickness and in health unless you are controlling and flawed, to love and to cherish unless you are controlling and flawed, till death do us part unless you are controlling and flawed, according to God's holy ordinance unless you are controlling and flawed; and thereto I pledge thee my faith unless you are controlling and flawed."
Or you can change that phrase " unless you are controlling and flawed" to " unless your mom does something she shouldn't do".
Yeah..........I doubt those were in there.
Last edited by Steve85; 07/07/2006:41 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
If you wanted a new truck would you have to harrass your wife to give in to your desires of the truck you wanted if the pricetag was more than she was comfortable spending?
You imagine yourself more powerful than you were. He didn't have to harass you to get his dream truck. After you said, "[Here are] 3 different used trucks that fit a budget.. and suggested [he] test drive and figure out which of the 3 [he] liked the best..", he could have smiled and bought any truck he wanted that your bank accounts and credit covered. You wanted control. He let you control. Own your faults. Let him own his.
Absolutely my ex-W complained when I wanted to spend "too much" money. I no longer blame her for preventing me from buying X, Y, and Z. I realize that was a choice I made.
Hi KK Im wayfarer an actual super A type LBW. I was actually controlling, frankly I'm a giant b*tch, and even in my control I wasn't the kind of controlling that is a deal breaker by societal norms. Unless you were laying out his clothes, checking with him if he flossed, made him check in with you every time he left the house even just to the store or work by sending you pictures, or telling him who he could or couldn't spend time with and when, you were not the kind of controlling that warrants an affair or a D. You were a wife with a H who probably put you in the position of your marriage relationship developing a parent/child aspect to it. There's also a good chance you were just co-dependent. A lot of women fall into both of those traps. I hate to break it to you but you are no where near a super A type controlling LBW. What you most likely are is a LBW who's soon to be ex H convinced her that her totally normal behavior that actually leans heavily toward submissive is controlling behavior regardless of what any one else tells her. My H said I was controlling in ways I never even so much as opened my mouth to. He tried to tell me I wouldn't let him go out with his friends. And then then when I argued with him about where he was when I knew he was with OW he'd say I'm just not calling you like you told me to do when I was out because it wakes you up. So when it was convenient to his narrative I was a controlling B who never let him go out and have fun (totally untrue) so he's going to go out all night and make the most of it since he's already out. And when it was convenient to his narrative I was then not controlling and he was just doing what I had asked and not bothering me because I said I trusted him, don't I trust him? See how that works. It doesn't matter if you helped you're husband pick out a bike or a truck. My H actually picked out the car I have. I narrowed it down to 3. He picked this one. And it's my vehicle. The car he has currently I literally yelled on the phone "STOP SECOND GUESSING GO BACK AND GET IT BEFORE IT'S GONE" because he was waffling and it was an amazing deal. That's normal MR stuff. That's not control.
And for just two seconds I'll give into your fantasy that you are some kind of women hell bent on world domination starting with your H. If that's the truth, why on god's green earth are you going to write him an apology letter. That is emotional manipulation in it's highest form which is a covert way to control someone. So you tell me, are you controlling or not? Either way. If you want to prove you are repentant for that behavior an apology letter while you are still in the throws of a divorce is the last way in the universe to show that you're changing, willing to change, and are truly sorry.
You are being irrational right now because you are out of options. You are dying to pursue (even though we have told you it never works), Just do it and get it over with and send him the letter apologizing for everything humanly possible you did in the relationship.
If you need to pour your heart out and explain your eternal and unconditional love for him in order to feel you left no stone unturned and to get closure, then you should do it.
Before you do it, I would just ask you to consider what will happen if you write the best letter of your life, one that would make anyone who reads it tear up over the sheer beauty of the language. What if you write that letter, he reads it, and nothing changes.
What are you going to do then?
Is there any chance that you will then feel you didn't express yourself clearly enough, and need to write another letter?
I guess what I'm asking is "where is the finish line?" At what point do you feel you will trust that he fully understands how you feel and still chooses not to reconcile?
I hate to ask you that question, but I also don't want to see you forever stuck.
If you pour your heart out and nothing changes, what comes next? There is nothing you can do right now to end the affair or get your H back.
How does that feel? Crappy right? Used to fixing things? Used to finding a way? Familiar with the feeling that if you work hard enough, anything is possible? None of that applies now, there is nothing you can do. You need to surrender to that, grieve it and find peace with it. Fighting against it sets you up as their adversary, pushes them together and you away. If you continue to actively try to disrupt the affair and get your H back, you will only dig your hole deeper and deeper, and that will be a debt that will take you a long time to recover from.
I don't want to write him a letter.
For starters he doesn't want the letter OR the apology.
I won't feel better.
I just want to be honest that despite my best intentions I was a crap person to live with. I don't want people to go oh, your H is a lyin' cheater... which he is... but then what am I?
You are being irrational right now because you are out of options. You are dying to pursue (even though we have told you it never works), Just do it and get it over with and send him the letter apologizing for everything humanly possible you did in the relationship.
If you need to pour your heart out and explain your eternal and unconditional love for him in order to feel you left no stone unturned and to get closure, then you should do it.
Before you do it, I would just ask you to consider what will happen if you write the best letter of your life, one that would make anyone who reads it tear up over the sheer beauty of the language. What if you write that letter, he reads it, and nothing changes.
What are you going to do then?
Is there any chance that you will then feel you didn't express yourself clearly enough, and need to write another letter?
I guess what I'm asking is "where is the finish line?" At what point do you feel you will trust that he fully understands how you feel and still chooses not to reconcile?
I hate to ask you that question, but I also don't want to see you forever stuck.
If you pour your heart out and nothing changes, what comes next? There is nothing you can do right now to end the affair or get your H back.
How does that feel? Crappy right? Used to fixing things? Used to finding a way? Familiar with the feeling that if you work hard enough, anything is possible? None of that applies now, there is nothing you can do. You need to surrender to that, grieve it and find peace with it. Fighting against it sets you up as their adversary, pushes them together and you away. If you continue to actively try to disrupt the affair and get your H back, you will only dig your hole deeper and deeper, and that will be a debt that will take you a long time to recover from.
I don't want to write him a letter.
For starters he doesn't want the letter OR the apology.
I won't feel better.
I just want to be honest that despite my best intentions I was a crap person to live with. I don't want people to go oh, your H is a lyin' cheater... which he is... but then what am I?
You are a W, that while not perfect, loved your H and wanted your MR to work. And you were the victim of a lying cheater.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Say you really are this bad wife you speak of......
Then you let go and move on and let him live whatever life he wants. Then you have to accept your were as you feel you were and there is nothing you can do about it now.
And yay go on being the person you want to be going forward.
If you wanted a new truck would you have to harrass your wife to give in to your desires of the truck you wanted if the pricetag was more than she was comfortable spending?
You imagine yourself more powerful than you were. He didn't have to harass you to get his dream truck. After you said, "[Here are] 3 different used trucks that fit a budget.. and suggested [he] test drive and figure out which of the 3 [he] liked the best..", he could have smiled and bought any truck he wanted that your bank accounts and credit covered. You wanted control. He let you control. Own your faults. Let him own his.
Absolutely my ex-W complained when I wanted to spend "too much" money. I no longer blame her for preventing me from buying X, Y, and Z. I realize that was a choice I made.
I see that... I truly do. And, yes he did those things to make me happy but over time began to resent me for it?
You are right. I came into his life and he handed everything over to me.... all his pw's to all his banking and just let me go as I saw fit.
Over time he wanted to have more say. He wanted to separate accounts but I wouldn't tolerate it. He had a separate account set up with weekly funds for personal use for how he saw fit and as our financial situation blossomed so did his weekly acct. When we first got married we could only afford it to be $10/week. He got up $75/week. This was smokes, gaming, etc. Any substantial purchases like hunting stuff, car stuff or just a big item he wanted was out of joint money.
He wanted to pay his own bills - he's doing that now and finding out that he thought he was going to have so much money now... he doesn't...
I wish I had listened to him and been more flexible when it was needed. But, I can't change the past I can only move forward.
My point being, whether you were the best wife in the world, or the worst wife in the world, your path is no different. You let him go do what he feels he needs, and you love a life true to yourself and the person you aspire to be.
To be more specific you are a Type A control freak with an anxious attachment style. You husband on the other hand is an avoidant. So here is what happens:
Affairs are acts of anger -- he has built up a ton of resentment toward you, and since he's avoidant, he hasn't given voice to any of it or worked any of it through.
Once people have affairs, they *initially* feel guilty and will beat themselves up about it, but eventually self-protection takes over and they refuse to believe that they are bad people.
So if he's not a bad person, then the reason he did a bad thing must have been because *you* drove him to it, you made him do it, and therefore *you* are the bad person and he is the victim.
Once he gets there, he'll seek any evidence to reinforce his viewpoint and will reject anything that contradicts it. That's why he will vilify you and nothing you do will be good. You simply can't win because he's an expert at confirmation bias at this point.
Virtually no one gets any real remorse -- the wayward spouse will feel sorry for themselves for "how you made them feel" about the affair, but they won't really feel remorse for their actions because they convince themselves that they were justified and that you were to blame.
And for just two seconds I'll give into your fantasy that you are some kind of women hell bent on world domination starting with your H. If that's the truth, why on god's green earth are you going to write him an apology letter. That is emotional manipulation in it's highest form which is a covert way to control someone. So you tell me, are you controlling or not? Either way. If you want to prove you are repentant for that behavior an apology letter while you are still in the throws of a divorce is the last way in the universe to show that you're changing, willing to change, and are truly sorry.
Sadly, I do see what my H was complaining about. It does ring with truth. I have to accept that I could have behaved differently and that would have caused my H to behave differently. But, I didn't get it until it was too late.
I don't want to write an apology letter. I did think about apologizing to my step kids for the constant bickering that I did with their dad - outside of that I'm not looking to apologize to H so much. Sure, part of me wants my H to know that I get it now.
Trust me - my H is a flawed person as well. I see his bad behavior too.
Last edited by job; 07/07/2009:09 PM. Reason: added link to new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
