Tell the cicadas to shut up

[AndrewP]

Our previous chapter - Darned Skeeters
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2894255&page=1

Well - this place is turning into a regular zoo / ark. The thread title is a reference to an old Gary Larson cartoon.

All the critters and people are working at adjusting and it will take some time. And patience.

The story continues.

[job]

Andrew,

You definitely will need lots of patience while your "ark" of people and animals settle down and get adjusted. I can't even imagine having that many animals under one roof w/o a few tiffs along the way. I gather you are the type of man who likes order in his home...so...how are you doing walking around a seeing all of the stuff all over the place? Has S begun to unpack or the boxes just stacked? I just get the impression that she, the kids and the animals lived in chaos and are use to things being all over the place.

Will you be able to continue working at home w/o much interruption or has that little piece of heaven now been taken over with boxes, etc.?

Lots of time and patience are definitely in order for all. Good luck!

[DnJ]

Good Morning Andrew

Yes, an 80A service would be hard pressed to run an air conditioner.

Over the years, I’ve not invested in my house considering the return upon the selling of it. I’ve invested in making it more comfortable, more home. We do spend a great deal of our lives in it after all.

That’s not an attempt to sway your decision; it’s just I don’t have an expiry date in mind for when I would move out. I’m not looking for a return. In ways, that has more reason for investing I suppose.

Fixing the back porch is a good project. Sounds like a good idea and a fun time. You’ve got a little helper living with you, with all summer off. What young boy wouldn’t like to rip something apart with a crowbar. Some work gloves, work boots, safety glasses, and go at it.

My boys, and girl, loved tearing down the old sheds that used to adorned the property. It’s some of the memories built in their childhood, working with Dad fixing and demolishing stuff. Faces light up when we talk about those times. The actual work and help, can be a bit frustrating at times for the Dad, and so worth the investment.

Have a great day.

D

[AndrewP]

Andrew,

You definitely will need lots of patience while your "ark" of people and animals settle down and get adjusted. I can't even imagine having that many animals under one roof w/o a few tiffs along the way. I gather you are the type of man who likes order in his home...so...how are you doing walking around a seeing all of the stuff all over the place? Has S begun to unpack or the boxes just stacked? I just get the impression that she, the kids and the animals lived in chaos and are use to things being all over the place.

Will you be able to continue working at home w/o much interruption or has that little piece of heaven now been taken over with boxes, etc.?

Lots of time and patience are definitely in order for all. Good luck!

I'm sure that I disabled that security system years ago - are you looking in at me?

The critters are largely settling down. My one cat Liz - who usually gets up from the grumpy side of the bed has gotten more grumpy but there's been little actual arguing. I'd hesitate to call it fighting. And it's mostly directed at her sister. The new cat - a charming older lady cat named Simon - is pretty chill about it all and spends most of her time sitting on a familiar chair ignoring the others. The dog is adapting well too. A mature neutered male cat is to be added to the mix as the last addition. The bunnies do their thing in S17's room. S and I have talked about odour abatement along with finding other less expensive sources of food than the pet store. S17 has the final say of course especially about the food.

There is currently stuff piled "everywhere" and yes, there was chaos in the apartment. This is something that I've watched quite carefully and given a lot of thought to. It was very close to a deal-breaker more than once. People don't fundamentally change as we all well know, so I had to think about how all of this will work. It is a topic that S and I have talked about where I've taken the tact that I found her apartment to have "poor energy". She's pointed out that my actions in keeping this place tidy are a huge thing for her. She says she and the boys will pitch in and do their part and we can all hope. I think that a key thing will be finding those things that each finds important and are within their capabilities. S with her back issues for example can't scrub especially on lower surfaces.

A key thing I've learned is that S does indeed quite like to have things tidy and organized. I think that's part of the reason she started spending so much time here so early on. That and I'm of course quite irresistible Health and teenagers and other factors combined to make it difficult for her. She also doesn't have the same sort of daily continuous tidy habits that I have. Keep in mind too, that many of those only really came out after my ex left.

S has of course committed to having everything all tidy, put away and organized quickly. And I've seen her do that in her apartment. But it didn't get sustained and maintained. And that's where I and the chore chart come in. We've talked and she is clearly aware that there are things that I will not accept and that I take ownership of. The litter boxes, the kitchen, making sure that my own laundry and the bed is done and kept fresh are all on "my" list. She's said that she will help with those and that's great but I know that there will be extra effort required to keep these things that matter to me taken care of.

My home work space is now rather more crowded than it was but one big desk and book-case in a big empty room was kind of weird. We still need to figure out the different spaces that S needs for her own paperwork / potential business stuff as well as her crafting and hobbies. I am hoping that the continuous working from home will be ending "any day now" but can't see that happening in July at this point. The way that I myself use space has been something that I've been wanting to re-imagine for a while now anyway so we'll see where that goes. At present S uses the dining room and living room and I am still in the upstairs office. I spend a lot of time on conference calls etc which is distracting to her I know. Getting back down to the plant regularly as well as the corporate office will happen in time. Various things are afoot as well that may mean yet another shift in my role this fall. Possibly more embedded in production or possibly pulled out for a special project. At least I'm confident of job security for at least the next few weeks

It perhaps helps that I'm not a misty-eyed idealistic teen-ager. I have gone into this relationship I hope with my eyes wide open and having done some critical thinking. S brings the positive energy and creativity into my world that I wanted to add. She also comes with quite a lot of baggage. Some short term(ish), some permanent.

I've thought about the utility of continuing to post here and one thing that I think is missing is the stories of those who move on to new relationships. Dawn has and it's worked well for her and her presumably much less complicated circumstances. Most people after a certain point though perhaps set DB principles behind them and because of what I perceive as the critical judgement that can happen here, don't share what it takes to build anew.

If this scares off some from attempting a new relationship, that's in my mind a good thing. I firmly believe that far too many people jump in before they are ready. I can of course be criticized for exactly that and have been. But on the other hand if it helps to show that it can be done and that it's worth the effort that's also positive.

And I also just like writing about my life and experiences - so there

Fixing the back porch is a good project. Sounds like a good idea and a fun time. You’ve got a little helper living with you, with all summer off. What young boy wouldn’t like to rip something apart with a crowbar. Some work gloves, work boots, safety glasses, and go at it.

Thanks D - I used to sit on the board of directors of a group that is involved in local planning. So my brothers and I, the boys, some cases of beer "could" probably toss up a new porch fairly easily but I'm going to have to do it the permit and engineering way.

I have the drawings all done and have for quite a while, I just need to first get an estimate and save up the money. As you suggest, demolition can be fun and cheap to do on your own. If I can get a contractor to put in the framing and roof, the floor, rails and trimwork I can easily do myself or with a helper. It's just not hit the top of the list yet. The last project was a new roof on the front porch and the savings account only slowly builds.

While it's foreign to how things worked with her ex-partners, I believe that S has bought in to the "save first then do" rather than "borrow and pay forever" method of planning. It certainly puts you to the top of the list with contractors I've found when you tell them you can pay them in cash if they want.

[job]

No, I'm not looking in on you. I have a good memory of many of things that you've posted and I know it use to bug you when B would do things, as well as your comments about the apartment that S was living in. It's going to take a lot of patience and effort in biting your tongue for a bit because you've been use to having the home to yourself w/your son and the cats for quite some time. Any time that there is a change, it can rock the boat of patience for a bit.

BTW, did you finish the plastering and painting project that you had started early in the spring? You've not mentioned it in a while and thought I'd ask about it.

As for the porch, if you can somehow swing it, now is the time to get it done because the contractors are desperate for work and in my area, they are doing work quite a bit cheaper because of this. Just my two cents.

Glad the animals are settling in and the two original queens are doing well even though Liz is still a bit grumpy.

Just remember, dig deeper for patience and count to 10 before you say something that may be taken the wrong way.

[JujuB]

Reading on with interest. I’m about to move too - (no animals though) and we are preparing for the adjustments. It’s funny - old school thought (my family) are more along with the “no big deal. Kids willl adjust” this stuff was done in the past when a spouse or family member died and kids were taken in and forced to adapt. Parents make decisions and kids go along with it. New school way of thinking is more like wait 5 years until you and partner or no longer infatuated with each other to move in or wait 15 years till the kids finish college, Everyone gets extensive therapy, or possibly live in separate homes and just date so kids don’t have to change and so you can keep those infatuation feelings a bit longer. Change can damage the kids and you don’t want that guilt and statistics are not in favor of 2nd marriages.

I’m hoping it’s taking a piece of both. Be kind to the kids And make sure your new partner is kind as well, but life is change and they do have to adapt. Prepare for hard times - go in with open eyes about relationships and people but don’t forget to look at success stories and question statistics (a lot of the people that made up those failed 2nd marriages were people that married their affair partners) Make sure you are ready to do the work needed for partnering.
Trust that your partner does not have ulterior motives and loves you for you and not what you offer or have on paper.

Now in your situation, the kids seem like they are happy about the move and living with you. So that’s huge. Maybe the difficult part will be you having to adjust to some disorganization. But you did mention that you have had and are used to lots of animals and kids around? I have read your posts for a while now - and to me - it always seemed like you like having things to do and people/animals to care for and nurture. Yes - you like structure (sounds like you can be of help to an adhd family big time that way) but you also seem to seek out companionship and people. Kids and animals seem to fill your life in a beneficial way. Only thing I wonder about is Do you feel comfortable that your boundaries are respected by S and that you can communicate with her in a way that doesn’t cause conflict or fights?

There are some personalities that have a hard time understanding it because they prefer a more simple and solitude sort of lifestyle where they are not having to compromise or do extra work or Commit or give for that companionship. . I get that too. Nothing wrong with it. But I guess we have to just go in knowing who we are and what we like and want.

[AndrewP]

BTW, did you finish the plastering and painting project that you had started early in the spring? You've not mentioned it in a while and thought I'd ask about it.

That project is currently stalled. S13 has moved in to the room as is. We'll get to it but with the current chaos and the reality that it is for the present just my 2 hands to do these things, it's going to wait.

Just remember, dig deeper for patience and count to 10 before you say something that may be taken the wrong way.

The same advice you give everyone in almost every circumstance my friend. And you are always right. <3

Reading on with interest.

Thanks Juju. Right now I'm in the middle of probably the worst part of things so will undoubtedly have a better perspective in a couple of months. There are boxes and stuff piled all over and filling up the garage and one of the sheds. S's cat has developed a habit of peeing on the floor outside the downstairs bath every night, S17 is delaying moving in as long as possible, S13 came back from his Dad having not had any consistency including with his meds, etc etc etc.

Knowing that this is the middle of the storm and also having job sitting on my shoulder counseling patience is how I'll get through this to the other side of things.

I’m about to move too - (no animals though) and we are preparing for the adjustments. It’s funny - old school thought (my family) are more along with the “no big deal. Kids willl adjust” this stuff was done in the past when a spouse or family member died and kids were taken in and forced to adapt. Parents make decisions and kids go along with it.

That's kind of S's attitude I think. I'm personally not a bit fan of either old or new school. I've always regarded "family" as a unit where everyone, the tall and the small have a voice. Now, S has been through this a couple of times previously with poor results and the kids did suffer the fall-out. She doesn't consult them on things, even big things like this. A couple of her kids saw warning signs with her STBX and tried to let her know but she went ahead anyway. Two of the older kids ended up moving out on their own shortly after she moved in. The impression that I get is that they all approve of me. It is one of the facets of her personality that bothers me. Perhaps it in part comes from having been a single mom for so long. With no other adult backup, doing a survey before making a decision probably isn't effective.

I think that my experiences last summer with B have been very instructive in my own path on this. My expectations of a new person fitting seamlessly into my life have certainly been altered. I feel bad because B (and I) had to suffer the fall-out of that learning. It still wouldn't have worked between us - there were a lot of unresolved issues on her side and some incompatible life-style issues. But I have learned that this is something where I'm going to have to put in some hard work and be flexible.

Because I haven't used crappy analogies for a while, imagine if you will that my first marriage was in many ways like building a house. We had an empty lot with a few weeds and a couple of pot-holes and worked together building something nice from the ground up that stood for many years.

When my marriage ended, I was still in that house, rather emptier than before.

The along comes B - who pulls up and tries to fit herself and her life into that house and leave what she had behind. It didn't work.

Then along comes S - with her own life (the image of the old Beverly Hillbillies show with Granny on top of the load with her rocking chair and shotgun comes to mind for "some" reason ). Instead of trying to fit all of that in my world, what we're doing is knocking down one of the outside walls and joining the two homes together. I don't know if you've ever seen that - but in my rural area that's one way that people will expand - just haul a second house in and put them together.

You have incompatible systems, you have walls up. You have odd creatures wandering from one side to the other. But it can work. It will take time. There will always be things on different sides perhaps. In our case with a number of adult children in the mix we certainly won't be the Brady Bunch.

S treats much of this as "no big" but I know that I'm going to have to learn new skills and work hard on patience as job wisely always counsels but also know where to give and where to hold firm.

I like to say that it's always easy to come up with reasons to NOT do something. But doing nothing isn't how you grow and thrive.

Now in your situation, the kids seem like they are happy about the move and living with you. So that’s huge. Maybe the difficult part will be you having to adjust to some disorganization. But you did mention that you have had and are used to lots of animals and kids around? I have read your posts for a while now - and to me - it always seemed like you like having things to do and people/animals to care for and nurture. Yes - you like structure (sounds like you can be of help to an adhd family big time that way) but you also seem to seek out companionship and people. Kids and animals seem to fill your life in a beneficial way. Only thing I wonder about is Do you feel comfortable that your boundaries are respected by S and that you can communicate with her in a way that doesn’t cause conflict or fights?

There are some personalities that have a hard time understanding it because they prefer a more simple and solitude sort of lifestyle where they are not having to compromise or do extra work or Commit or give for that companionship. . I get that too. Nothing wrong with it. But I guess we have to just go in knowing who we are and what we like and want.

Thanks Juju. I often forget how observant people are. Especially people here. Communication is the toughest thing for us as we find we have triggers and patterns of communication that automatically flip into defensive patterns. That's why the seemingly trivial air-conditioner issue is such a big win for us both in my mind.

Trust that your partner does not have ulterior motives and loves you for you and not what you offer or have on paper.

Always a worry for people. Especially I think for someone like me. A middle-aged guy with a house, steady job that pays 6 figures, no real debt. I've been described as a "catch". S being a middle-aged single mom with no steady income and dependent children, the obvious conclusions are obvious. I've been assured that it's not the case and she's no history nor taken any measures that might indicate otherwise.

[JujuB]

Just because someone’s a single mom with dependent kids doesn’t mean she’s an opportunist. You know my sitch - and I hate the idea that I can be perceived that way.

[kml]

Re:the cat pee - always check for a bladder infection when a cat is peeing. Plus are there enough litter boxes for all the cats?

As for all the unpacking/organizing - the way you eat an elephant is one bite at a time. Hopefully while you are working from home S is busying herself with unpacking? If her ADD is getting in the way, maybe there’s a way to help with some goal setting ? Or if that’s too tricky, maybe set aside Saturdays as blitzkrieg unpacking days, doing it together with fun music playing. (Boy George is good for housecleaning).

I think your attitude towards her kids is excellent and I’m sure they appreciate it, even if there are some rough spots.

[AndrewP]

Just because someone’s a single mom with dependent kids doesn’t mean she’s an opportunist. You know my sitch - and I hate the idea that I can be perceived that way.

It is unfortunate and in probably nearly all the cases false. I do think that especially in the online dating world that there are a lot of biases that have nothing to do with how worthy people are. I've heard some echoed here. It's funny though, the fact that S was a stay at home single mom with 5 kids didn't hurt her dating prospects nearly as much as the fact that she didn't drink. And that was even before she would be able to let her prospective dating partner know that she had a severe allergy.

Re:the cat pee - always check for a bladder infection when a cat is peeing. Plus are there enough litter boxes for all the cats?

We have one upstairs and one down so should be fine. In the apartment there were two boxes but side by side and since they were taken care of by a 17 year-old were usually pretty disgusting. I'll probably have to go back to scooping twice a day. I would normally try to do once a day when it was just the two girls. This cat does have a history of peeing in potted plants possibly in part because her litter box was pretty gross.

As for all the unpacking/organizing - the way you eat an elephant is one bite at a time. Hopefully while you are working from home S is busying herself with unpacking? If her ADD is getting in the way, maybe there’s a way to help with some goal setting ? Or if that’s too tricky, maybe set aside Saturdays as blitzkrieg unpacking days, doing it together with fun music playing. (Boy George is good for housecleaning).

I think your attitude towards her kids is excellent and I’m sure they appreciate it, even if there are some rough spots.

Thanks. This whole thing is going to be a series of elephants plodding through the savannah I think for a while.

S is no good at the slow and steady incremental processing. BUT she is great at the bursts of energy. I was talking to her son-in-law and her daughter (D25) - who I've often referred to as a drill-sergeant - is planning on "helping" her mother sort through stuff. She's not working right now either and with a one-year old probably won't be going back to work full time anytime soon. Given the history, I think that D25 has a long history of making things work out for her mother and S has relied on her a "lot" even from when she was very young. I don't know if it's a truism but suspect that the older kids of a single mom tend to end up doing a lot of the adulting / mature faster than otherwise.

I think that D25 will be a fabulous help in keeping her mother focused and also in helping with some of the harder decisions on what to let go. This may be one of the first times in a very very long time where S is able to look at this place as something other than temporary and where she can work on making it into a home. There's a massive amount of stuff that seems to be just contingency or "doesn't fit here but might fit into the next place". Letting to of that will be tough for her. I think some days that S spends more time living in a future than she does in the present. Kind of opposite of me.

I've actually known D25 for a lot longer than her mother and always liked her. She's a bit scattered and flighty but has a kind heart and a core of inner strength that just shines through. Her mom has that too but more softened and perhaps battered and bruised.

I see my role in this as encouraging, being positive and facilitating where possible by assembling shelves, moving stuff, doing trips to the dump and second hand store's donation outlet.

And being patient.

I've stayed out of the packing and moving out process as much as possible. I've been at the apartment a few times and found it massively frustrating for an organized guy like me. The process seems to have been to randomly select items and put them into a box or now more often garbage bag and throw them with no discernible pattern into the van. When they arrive I've done a lot of the unloading and put things close to their end homes and tried to do some sorting. So books in one area, the pictures and prints safely under the back stairs, S's clothes (often mixed in with the kids') in our room. Much of the furniture that has arrived that has no specific home has ended up in the shed for now. Many of the pieces are ones she picked up from the swap pile at the local landfill or a second hand store but some of it is pretty good stuff. Some is broken down crap. According to the dump receipts S has already taken about 850 lbs to the dump.

I did help a bit on Friday afternoon after work loading but felt a punch in the chest after carrying a heavy load down the stairs to the trailer so announced that I was taking a break which frustrated me but everyone else thought was reasonable. Oddly I felt fine to unload although that was just a matter of sliding things off and on to the dolly and putting it into the garage. Son-in-law thought it might be related to oxygen levels which doing heavy lifting on stairs exacerbated as pretty much all of my issues can come down under the category of poor circulation.

I believe that a final push is being made today and / or tomorrow. Last minute of course. S17 is still there and I think is having a hard time of it.

On a semi-related note, I reached out to some cousins of mine who are rabbit breeders and asked about getting feed from somewhere other than the pet shop and they were positive about that. My youngest brother had just taken off some hay so I swung by there and picked up a bale. S17 had said that he was open to using field hay but needed to check it himself. He's good with the fact that I picked up a bale as I told him that for $5 (vs about 90 for equivalent from pet store) that if it didn't suit we could use it as mulch. Second cut should be coming off in about August and if this suits we'll maybe get a half-dozen bales or so and put it into the shed.

My brother I think thought it weird that when I picked up the hay that I was wearing a mask. He and to a much larger degree his wife think that the virus is all an overblown hoax and that mask wearing is just a personal choice. They have a group of like-minded friends and aren't practicing social distancing. I told him that I choose to wear a mask because if I can save just ONE life by doing that at the expense of looking silly that was more than worth it. I doubt I changed his mind or even made him think hard about it. Frustrating as they are generally kind, caring and fairly well informed people.

Had a bit of a WTF moment last night too. S took everyone out to dinner on a local patio after a hard day of packing and moving. She asked for a seat under the tent to be out of the sun which worked well when the downpour started. While we were there a random guy came by who obviously knew everyone and chatted cheerfully and caught up. I was ignored. I asked S and yes - this was her prior boyfriend. My heavens - what a slimeball he appears to be. He was a barfly at this pub across the street from S's apartment and is probably in his early/mid 60s and looks in very rough shape. I do have to work on some brain-bleach to get the thought of them as a couple out of my mind. It was nice to have what I'd heard about them breaking up and that the guy regretted S splitting from him confirmed. Otherwise they would have just ignored each other. And he was probably curious about who this other guy was. According to my barber who knows him, he's slid a lot deeper into the barfly lifestyle since they broke up and it certainly is obvious to me.

S's Dad was supposed to come up today to meet me and the clan was going to gather together for a BBQ this afternoon. He abruptly cancelled yesterday afternoon for unknown reasons so I believe that there is going to be more packing done and still a BBQ. I've not done a Sunday supper in a while and currently can't find the enthusiasm in me to do it. I'm not exactly sure why but do feel rather overwhelmed by everything at present. It should settle down somewhat in the months to come.

I've tried reaching out to S25 a few times about getting together but only get radio silence. This neither surprises nor bothers me. It's just part of who he is. When he was away at school we would get together about once a month for dinner and in between would be silence. I do know that it's frustrating to him to have people poke at his "bubble" so I'll do what I used to do and text him from time to time about random news and see about getting together.

I hear occasionally from D25 in San Diego. She and her H are happy that the Zoo is open again but will wait for the first rush of crowds to go before going in. I got them memberships last Christmas. For next year I think I'll look around to see what other things might be available to them there although Zoos are one of their favourite things. That also implies that they'll be living there as the Navy can shift things around without warning and my son-in-law may be up for another change in posting. It would be nice if they ended back up in Upstate New York. A nice part of the world and much easier to visit - once we can do that again.

Well - the tea pot just emptied. Time to get out and start on cutting the grass and keep the house running while everyone else is busy with the move. And yes - I'll take things slowly and not push myself too hard.

[job]

Litter boxes that aren't cleaned often enough will create some issues for cats and when they aren't happy...well, they urinate outside the box. Also, maybe the cat is doing this to set the tone for other cats in the house to know that this is his/her litter box. Another thought is to move the box to somewhere more private for the cat and the cat may not like that particular litter. Cats are very picky about their litter and where their boxes are placed. Kitty is not happy apparently w/the current state of affairs.

I also agree w/kml...kitty may have a UTI and the only way to eliminate this one condition is a visit to the Vet. I'm sure you and S don't want kitty to be suffering.

Sounds like S's daughter may be able to help w/the unpacking and hopefully getting things put away in proper places very soon. Let's hope that if she helps her mother, S will be able to focus on what needs to be done and doesn't walk away from the job at hand and begin doing something else.

As for your son, he may very well be off in his own little world and doing his own thing. He also might be giving you and the household time to get organized and settled down. Hopefully he will pop out of his little world and say hi very soon.

Please don't over do it w/the lawn mowing and unpacking/moving of things. S has children that can come over and help w/some of that stuff...after all...it's their stuff that was moved as well.

[kml]

As for your son - may I recommend you carve out some time for a visit between just you and him? Just because you’ve taken in S and her brood doesn’t mean HE has to be rushed into a relationship with them. Don’t let him feel like he doesn’t get any of your attention.

[AndrewP]

Today's quote

"There have been times, lately, when I dearly wished that I could change the past. Well, I can't, but I can change the present, so that when it becomes the past it will turn out to be a past worth having."

Well - in the worst part of it right now. Very little to my surprise the bulk of the work is being done at the last minute - plus a few minutes more. There is literally stuff filling the garage, the large shed that has the boat and stacks upon stacks through the whole house.

Last night while I was trying to sleep there was still stuff coming in and being put here, there and everywhere. It was well after midnight before they had the apartment empty of things. And there may still be a few things there. S and S17 have gone back there this morning to do more cleaning and hand the key over to the land-lady this afternoon. S is in a crazy amount of pain from her back and stressed up to the eyeballs. She has had about 6-8 weeks at least to do this and yes - last minute plus dragging in her kids etc and working them like dogs is the way it finishes.

I felt guilty and let her know that I was unhappy that I wasn't a lot of help at the apartment due to a combination of having to work and also not being suited for carrying heavy things down stairs. I think that nobody felt upset at me for "getting out of the work". I also know that I would have been hugely frustrated watching the process as it was not at all methodical.

I have no idea how this stuff managed to fit into her apartment and some of the furniture I'm willing to swear I've never seen before.

I'm doing ok with it all things considered. S has assured me that she will be quickly sorting and organizing but I know it's going to take quite a bit of time. I hope to be able to use the garage again by winter. It's tough though and I don't think that S had realized how tough it has been on me until just recently. Even though as I've told her, I don't subscribe to the "hippy dippy energy flow" thing, I've suggested that she do something to help "refresh" the energy in the house and I believe that smudging will be done. In my mind at least that will help set a demarcation point between what was and what will be.

We'll work through it and S does know how important tidy and organized and livable is to me. And I know that a certain amount of mess and clutter is inevitable when the circus comes to town. Looking at the stuff she brought in, it's plain to me that a good portion of it is aspirational and never got used. Having her accept that this is where she is and that the stuff that doesn't "fit" needs to go will be difficult and will have to be her idea and not mine. She's already mentioned that she wants to do that but I don't think that the reality of it will sink in for some time. She's much more attached to "stuff" and an idealized vision of how that stuff will make her life better than I ever was or will be.

It will take time and patience to work though all of this. I have no idea what the house will look like afterwards, but it will all work out.

----

In other news, I got a raise! Some former colleagues who through corporate restructuring ended up working for a large multi-national got a pay cut so I can certainly count myself fortunate. I expect that the number I got was the "standard" increase but still it was nice.

I'm heading off to the plant again this afternoon to pick up some stuff that came in via courier. I'm crazy busy with work and it does cause me a lot of stress but I'm also enjoying being so busy and learning new stuff. My semi-official boss who is transitioning part of his job to me is taking off next week and I think has some decent faith in me keeping things going despite the fact that there are a couple of complex large orders coming up. Add on to that that one of the key admin people has just come down with a serious case of virtigo and I'll have to cover part of her job too. My IT department colleague (my official job) is also taking off a couple of weeks so July is going to be busy busy busy. And rather stressful as there are some other things in the wind at work that may be coming to fruition by early August.

But at least I'll look pretty. I'd emailed my barber to see if he was going to re-open and got an appointment for July 9th. He's a volunteer firefighter and I'm confident that he will have all appropriate safety precautions in place. Since he's by appointment only even under normal circumstances the shop is usually just him and the customer.

Now that we're in the deepest part of the chaos and while I can't see the path out of it clearly, it's nice to know that we've hit the worst of it. I do hope that S hasn't over-done it too much but expect that she'll be essentially out of commission for a couple of weeks. I can do some stuff and have some ideas like the kitchen table she brought being a lot nicer than the one I had that will probably fly. Getting her to let go of "stuff" will probably be difficult but I am sure that her D25 will be an ally in that. And I'm a big believer in the Marie Kondo school - if you love it, keep it even if it makes no sense otherwise.

[kml]

I love your attitude! And I like the idea of smudging
It'll be alright. The hardest part I think is what you have already surmised - getting her to let go of stuff. But I think you have the skills to help her with that. Watch a few episodes of Marie Kondo (even though I'm not quite a fan of her minimalist approach, I do like how she organizes things, and we all could do with a little push to get rid of some of the cr@p we hold onto).

Furniture should be relatively straightforward - after all, you can only use so many pieces in a room. Try to incorporate hers where hers is nicer or it's a toss up. Donate the rest.

[AndrewP]

Phew!

What a day. I did the last of the unloading yesterday as S's big Dodge van was still packed to the gunwales. Some of the load turned out to be perishable goods as well. Some was salvageable, but some ended up in the compost heap.

S17 is visibly struggling with a whole lot of issues right now. There's the upset of moving, the disappointment of not being able to move in with his buddy on top of everything else. There's a certain amount of acting out going on but nothing significant. He had a remote session with his therapist on Tuesday that hopefully helped.

Things are being sorted out with the cats. The newest addition is still trying to find his "place" and Liz is being a b!tch to pretty much everyone. So no real surprises. They have screaming matches every now and then but little direct conflict. We're not too worried.

S and I had a bit of a problem yesterday that is going to take some effort - probably mostly from me. I have an attitude / habit that I don't expect help with anything. That's how it's been even in the prior chapters of my life. I'd suggested to S that the boys could help sorting through some of the stuff from the van and carry it into the house. For whatever reason that didn't happen and so by around 6:00pm I started shifting it in without making a fuss about it. The boys were hanging out playing video games.

S got rather upset at me - or so it seemed and requested that I stop. As can often happen it seems, it escalated in my eyes with comments of "you never listen to me" etc etc. I stopped what I was doing and tried to talk it out with her. She went in, told the boys that they had to get up "right now" and move that stuff - which they did. Piling it at random in the laundry room filling up the minimal space that I had established to try to keep the space functional. Sigh. I did some later re-arranging. S told me - and she's quite right - that I couldn't let the boys believe that I re-did what they did because it was sub-standard.

This is a problem I have that I need to figure out. S has been honest in that if the boys see me do things they are supposed to do that they'll just accept that and take advantage of it. On the other hand, being teenagers, things are avoided or minimally done which frustrates me. I need to let it go at least in part I'm sure. But it's hard. I actually am developing a bit of sympathy for her STBX who she paints as a control freak where the least thing can't be out of place.

One big worry was that when we were discussing this, S13 witnessed that there was conflict and you could see the fear in his eyes. I feel sorry for the poor kid. He's had such a tough go of it. As the youngest he generally has gotten the short end of the stick and he's never really known a stable home environment. His parents were divorced when he was just tiny, he was in and out as the drama of S's next marriage played out, had the constant fear of eviction from their apartment hanging over him and so - yeah - he's got cause to be watchful.

To top it off, D19 and BF said that they were going to come over for dinner and a bonfire. S asked me before agreeing and we both agreed that we were thoroughly "peopled out" but that we did owe the kids for their hard work. So the kitchen table had to be found, S made dinner and I got things set up outside. I know that on Saturday everyone is coming over again for the GS's first birthday party including possibly my prospective father in law.

After that - we will be needing to take a break even if it means pushing back on S's crew.

I did find my annoyance with BF softening which I suppose is a good thing. But I do still clearly know that he's a taker and opportunist and as has been mentioned here before, I'm not actually obliged to like any particular person and it's ok to not like people. Something that is a tough lesson for many. Fortunately S understands and while she's an apologist for him she doesn't push it.

I had to leave before dark to get the kitchen cleaned up (my priority) and to try to get sleep to get ready for back to work today - a day that I expected a bunch of challenges and have not been surprised by the number of things that have gone sideways. I probably shouldn't be posting right now, but want to do a brain-dump.

I was pleased this morning when I peeked in the back yard and the chairs that I'd set up appear to have been put away. Sad that I'm surprised but I will make a point of noticing. I also need to notice that S has made progress already in our dressing room in getting stuff put away.

I've still not heard from S25 and sent him another text updating him on how his "girls" are coping with the other 2 cats and suggesting again that we have a visit on a patio somewhere. I did mention that the house is in a state of chaos and rather filled with stuff. I am quite positive that he wants nothing to do with this place

Still struggling in some ways with conflicting priorities at work. My new role - which is on top of my old one - is taking a lot of time and is expected to grow. There's a lot of last minute drama and a need to keep multiple priorities focused. I'm actually having some fun with it which might be a surprise given my personality type. I recall getting off a call recently and remarking to S that it seemed that I actually knew what I was talking about despite the fact that I am still learning.

[Dawn70]

You know, Andrew, I feel like I am always negative Nancy when I talk to you but your latest posts alarms me on several levels. First, I must have missed a post somewhere but I thought the plan was still for s17 to move in with his buddy but it was just delayed a bit. But now, you have a sullen, moody teenage boy who is there under protest basically, as it wasn’t his plan. Yikes! Then, the whole story about the boys “helping” you carry in stuff. Listen, I know they aren’t your kids so you have to let S take the lead but there is NO reason unloading has to wait until 6:00 and then be done haphazardly, then S griped at you on top of that because the boys just crammed crap wherever and you had to rearrange? Not no, but H3LLLLLLLLLLLLLL no! Sounds to me like there needs to be a family meeting to outline responsibilities for these boys. Just because S has allowed them to lie around and be lazy and play games while she did all the work, doesn’t mean that is how it should continue. The fact that you are taking the brunt of this saying it is somehow your fault REALLY concerns me for you. The more you say about S, the more she comes across as manipulative to me. I’m sorry but you mentioned having her sons help unload THEIR stuff then she let them sit around and play video games all day until you started doing it yourself then she scolds you for doing it yourself and for rearranging to make things workable when they did finally help. You do realize that is how what you wrote sounds, right? I agree that not all single women with children are users and takers, as some other posters before me pointed out, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, guess what.....it’s a duck! THEN as if all that wasn’t enough, she had D19 and bf over for supper. You say she talked to you first but did she really or had she already invited them then just ran it past you so you’d know they were coming? Those are 2 entirely different things. You say you owe them, I’m assuming for helping with the move, but couldn’t it have waited until next week? Yes, it could have. My point here is so far, from your narrative, your priorities and S’ don’t really seem to be lining up and you seem to always want to take the blame when things don’t go a certain way. You mentioned her ex who she says wanted everything in it’s certain place. If, God forbid, you didn’t make it as a couple, would she describe you the same way? You also mentioned she said something along the lines of you don’t listen. Andrew, love, y’all haven’t even been together long enough for her to hurl things like that but what it tells me is she plays the victim and goes for the jugular. And you say you saw terror in S13’s eyes when he heard conflict and you feel sorry for him. Andrew, my dear man, I’m not saying S doesn’t love her children but she has exposed them to a number of men and involved them in her relationships to the point that these kids wouldn’t know “stable” if you drove them right into the middle of one. It’s too late now and I fear that the light at the end of the tunnel y’all see is a big old train bearing down on you. For the love of all things bright and beautiful, PLEASE stop shouldering all the blame when y’all have conflict and keep communicating with her. S has been broken, clearly, and I feel bad for her, but the more you say, the more she comes across to me as someone who has done her share of breaking as well. Please ask for help and make sure that you praise the boys but also teach them. She clearly needs some assistance in guiding them toward being productive adults. I’m sorry that this all sounds so harsh, but I just think you are a lovely man and I don’t want to see you get hurt.

[DonH]

Dawn I don’t think you are being harsh at all. You are being truthful. I know I’m not high on the list of whom Andrew takes advice from but for me all of this is both sad and eye opening to read. For me it reinforces how much hard work all of this is and how much I just don’t have the ambition for it. But that’s me.

For Andrew, please don’t sell yourself short. Like it’s all on you to do better and all on you to compromise. It’s great that you very much want to but not fair - to you. You are not wrong to feel the way you do. Giving the kids a pass might be the easy way to avoid conflict but it’s a bad path and in the long run harms them. Being lazy and playing video games is what kids do. It’s part of their DNA. My stepson was a master at it. But I didn’t let him get away with it and guess what - now at 33 he thanks me for that! You doing the work for them is a BAD idea. I agree with S here. But making them feel bad for doing a poor job, S loses my support there. Berating or yelling at them - no. But teaching and correcting - yes. And why didn’t S direct HER KIDS in the first place. I suspect you are seeing business as usual.

I’ve said before that the price of admission here seems so very high. You deserve as much as you give. And you give a huge amount. This entire family should be worried about upsetting or losing you - not the other way around. You have huge value and worth in this scenario. S and her kids need to rise up to your level not the other way around. Especially S. You should not feel that everything falls to you and it’s on your to compromise if you want to keep a girl friend or wife. Being in this sitch would scare the heck out of me. But that’s me.

Just please don’t sell yourself short that any given person or any given set of circumstances is all you are worthy of. Demand more - by that I mean expect more. We teach people how to treat us. S is clearly doing that with you - even if it’s not healthy. You need to do the same because I know it will be healthy.

And also... what Dawn said. It’s hard to say Dawn but you are doing Andrew a huge favor saying it.

[kml]

Ok I’ll take the other side as I’ve seen the interaction between CMM and my boys since he moved in.

1) The boys don’t want you to be grumpy dad - you already know that. They have their own grumpy dads. It’s important to carve out a positive relationship with them. CMM blew that right off the bat with passive -aggressiveness towards my boys about housekeeping stuff. Expecting that all of a sudden once he moved in that all would live up to his standards, he took on a bossy dad role that they had NO interest in listening to. (Mind you, I’m talking about things like leaving an unwashed glass by the sink or not thinking to take out the recycling without being asked or unload the dishwasher, not egregious dirtiness).

2) Ask for what you want. Why didn’t you go to S and say, “it’s time to unload the van, can you rustle up the boys?” Or call the boys “hey, time to unload - you start grabbing things and I’ll show you where to put them”. Why DIDNT you show the boys where you wanted things to go? Have realistic expectations - boys that age aren’t going to think about where they put things. Don’t sit around expecting them to read your mind and then getting irritated if they don’t. Ask nicely for help and reward their efforts without being critical. It’s like the dog training rule - reward the good behaviors, ignore the bad ones. Ask for what you want and get in and help with them so they don’t feel like you’re the overseer.

3) Work with their differences. With their ADD they aren’t going to be very organized unless you help them. Getting frustrated and “I’ll do it myself” reeks of passive aggressiveness. Plus it’s not helpful since her boys sound like they have a lot of catching up to do in terms of learning these skills.

4) For cripes sake don’t have any arguments within earshot of the boys. Just don’t.

5) Recognize if you’re doing things for yourself or them. CMM will do things I consider unnecessary (mopping the kitchen floor twice a week instead of once a week) then be resentful that the boys aren’t doing it for him.

6) S needs you to learn to like her kids. Don’t complain to her about them. See the Buddha in them and go from there.

[Dawn70]

Actually, kml, your first 2 points were exactly what I was trying to say. I don’t think Andrew should take the grumpy dad route either which is why I suggested a family meeting to lay out expectations for EVERY household member. I don’t think he should necessarily correct her sons unless there is some sort of imminently dangerous situation that needs to be addressed immediately. I do think, however, as the home owner, he does have the right to ask S to ask her kids to pitch in rather than acting as the chief cook and bottle washer to keep the peace. I think we can all agree that, left to their own devices, teenage boys are going to eat, sleep, play video games, watch tv, and NOT do any kind of chores without specifically being told, probably more than once. Andrew can’t be the disciplinarian but he can absolutely take a role as one who helps guide and teach the boys things as they grow. I have been the stepparent and it is a TOUGH role to play because there is a RAZOR thin line you have to walk to keep the peace. I think Andrew goes to the opposite extreme of CMM and just handles things himself rather than rocking the boat.

Really, in your post, you only said one thing that I didn’t necessarily agree with but since it wasn’t something I addressed in my original response, I just chalked it up to agree to disagree and moved on without even addressing it.

The rest of your points, I totally agree with: ask for help and be specific, give specific directions and reward help and positive behavior, don’t argue in ear shot of the kids and don’t vent to S about her kids (I would also add that if she vents to you about her own kids, just listen but don’t comment). I think Andrew does like the kids, it is living with them that will require adjustments.

I think S and her kids are used to a certain amount of chaos and instability while Andrew prefers quiet, calm, and orderly. There is no reason S and her kids can’t adapt, over time, to a more organized and routine lifestyle and I would bet it would actually do her kids some good.

[bttrfly]

Seems to me new living arrangement is the perfect time to instill new habits and create new family practices.

Chore chart
Expectations
Regular Family meetings

Absofricklutely no disagreements in front of the not-so-littles!


It would have been better to have discussed this prior to the great mashup of 2020. If you did and things aren't going according to your agreement, re-visit the agreement.

Before anyone jumps in with comments about those of us who aren't in relationships judging those who are, it might be helpful to know that some of us who aren't in relationships currently have enough on our plates with other family obligations and perhaps realizing that the pie only has so many slices have wisely concluded, for themselves, that if they cannot give a relationship what it deserves right now, best to keep that on the back burner til other family obligations reach their natural conclusion.

[Ginger1]

I agree with everyone’s comments.

Dawn, you said it better than I could have ever. S seems like a gas lighter and a bit manipulative. You could have done better by asking her early to round of the kids because it needs to get done now so you can arrange everything in there. She shouldn’t have let them play video games all day and let them have at it at 6pm. Then she gets angry with you for doing it yourself and then there are rules as to how you are supposed to act how it’s done. And the concerning part is how you feel you are the only one who needs to make changes to pretzel into how she reacts .

The one thing I say every time is that it is really time to speak up. Family meetings, discussing rules and chores coming together woth a plan together is really important when introducing 3 new people, various animals and loads of stuff into a household. Quiet Andrew not wanting to boat is going to wear on you hardcore. And it will affect your health. I’m not swaying rule with an iron fist, but their chaos needs some structure and that’s how you guys compromise.

And yes bttfly, because those of us who aren’t in a R pretty much realize that there is only so much of us to go around that we may not be able to effectively share what we have with someone else. It’s a very mature decision not taking on something you can’t give properly to. I vascular myself between that.

But I have dated woth a young child and blending families have been considered and there is lots of conprimise, it shouldn’t be conflict avoidance and tiptoeing

Andrew, I’m going to gather the other side of the story of her divorces are going to come out a bit as you might be seeing. I’m sure it’s something you can deal woth, but the truth is, it’s something you actually have to deal with rather than sweep it under the rug

[AndrewP]

Quiet Andrew not wanting to boat is going to wear on you hardcore.

LOL - I really should get out on the water I have that row boat to finish up. It's a "one sheet skiff" design by a gent up in Ottawa. I've built I think 3 of them in the past. Used 1 that lasted about 5 years and donated 2 to various charity auctions. It's a fun build and theoretically can be slapped together in an afternoon and as the name suggests, only uses 1 sheet of 1/4" bathroom underlay. I put them together with construction adhesive and a few screws. I do have an Atkin designed MouseBoat that can be tossed in the water on a whim. Another fun boat to build and use.



Ginger - I've known for a while that the complete truth about what has gone on in the past hasn't come out. While not "trickle truth", S does have the habit of not disclosing everything all at once and I have caught her more than once with "white lies". We were several dates in for example before I found out that she had severe alcohol allergies. She's learning that I'm really bad at lies of any colour and don't even attempt but she uses them as a tool to smooth the bumps in life's road especially for the kids. Certainly though quite concerning especially how things played out with her STBX - and yes - I'm sure that there's a lot more to the story in that specific case than has been told.

My current understanding - based on other evidence and a gut feel is that S held out hope to her STBX after they split 2 years into the marriage for 4 years. The attempted reconciliation went from late last fall through to the spring and involved S moving herself, S13 and D19 in while S17 stayed at the apartment. This lasted until she caught him in more financial and other shenanigans including gambling. And the controlling, abusive behaviour didn't change at all either. The kids do largely corroborate S's story that it was just "visiting" and "only for a short while" but slip-ups happen and there's a certain amount of other evidence. Where the truth actually is may well be somewhere in between.

Since I prefer to take the kind point of view, it could be argued that she was trying hard to give the relationship as many chances as possible. Her one other relationship that I know of during the 4 year split lasted about 6 months and went very very badly. Her STBX provided a level of plan B and health insurance. I firmly believe, like many here, that she really only let go of that after she got her ring from me.

Does any of this actually matter? A bit yes. But not something to do more than ensure that I keep my eyes wide open. My ex-wife told a lot of "white lies" - more in describing the world as she wanted it to be rather than the way it was.

Even though I don't have the tool set to look at it this way, from another perspective of a single SAHM whose kids are aging out of support, there's a certain bloody-minded survival mode that could come out after close to 25 years of coping, making do and doing what is necessary to survive. That point of view is I hope a bit more harsh than the reality indicates but S is a survivor and puts the welfare of her family first. That's where my biggest worry, like I think many of my friends here was, am I actually someone she wants in her life or am I just a means to an end. All indications are that she, as well as S13 are happy to have found somewhere where they can finally relax and let go of the fear.

----

Thanks all for the feedback - even you Don - We're now starting day 3 of everyone actually living under the same roof - so no surprise that things are still being sorted out.

I do need to work on my skills with asking for and accepting help. In the past it was only my daughter who ever was up for that and she's been gone for I think close to 10 years now.

Given her utter state of exhaustion, S has made great strides in getting things organized. There is an actual path to my dresser now so if I can get myself organized enough, I may actually put on clothes (been a bumpy start to the morning for work). She repeatedly talks at length about getting things cleaned up and organized. And has been making progress. She's also been letting to of things. The "free" sign on the side of the road is becoming a fixture. So far a desk, chair and filing cabinet have found new homes that aren't in the landfill. She's actually kind of excited by how easy it is to dispose of things that way.

I do know that she liked how organized and tidy things were in this house before she moved in. She states that she wants it to return to that. I know that she lacks the tools on her own to get there and the boys certainly do. She's said bluntly that she knows that at least 1/2 of her stuff has to be gotten rid of and has appreciated that I'm also purging.

Getting chore charts organized and followed is going to be a chore on it's own. It's what the boys are used to though. Getting them all to a point where they develop the habits to keep a home maintained is going to be harder and may never happen which is where the carrots and sticks come in. And while I can back S up - those messages need to be her's.

As far as dealing with disagreements between S and I that's going to take some work. I'

We'll see how it goes. She is capable of amazing feats in short bursts. We both need a break from the chaos which hopefully after the grandson's birthday and my meeting her Dad this Saturday we will have. The next weekend is S17 turning into S18. His siblings mostly have other plans so it will probably just be the 4 of us.

Still no response from S25 - I texted him again yesterday giving him an update on "the girls" and suggesting a patio for a visit. I may reach out via our mutual friend 20S and see if all is well. She'll be able to nag him to "go see your Dad" much more effectively than I can.

[kml]

You should go see your son. He very well may be feeling displaced or may just not want to be around the chaos. Or he might be suffering from depression. What’s keeping you from just stopping by his place one evening?

[exquisitetobe]

Andrew, you are p*sing me off.
Your OWN FLESH AND BLOOD should come first.

How long as it been since YOU called your daughter? Weren' t you talking every single day before S ?

Why not visit your son?

You make excuses and justify your choices by putting it onto them.

YOU ARE THEIR FATHER!! THE ONLY FATHER THEY WILL EVER HAVE.
SHOW THEM THAT THEY MEAN THE WORLD TO YOU!
PUT S AND HER CIRCUS ASIDE FOR A FEW HOURS AND BE THE DAD ( ANDREW )
THEY LOVE AND MISS!!

NO EXCUSES! JUST DO IT!!!

Sorry for my blyntness but i have 4 children and i know what kids crave in divorce.
No matter their age.

[AndrewP]

((exquisitetobe))

I do still chat online with my daughter almost every day. Since I'm not commuting, the way that I would usually call her doesn't happen although I should probably call her just to hear her voice. She knows how phones work too. My son is presently ignoring me, undoubtedly enjoying his freedom. It's how he is as well. I reach out every few days. He doesn't respond. He's not upset with me, he just doesn't do the phone call / texting thing. We'll undoubtedly get together sometime soon. I'm not worried.

[Dawn70]

I SO wish I had your ability to always look at the positive, regardless of the situation. You really do continue to amaze me and that is usually in a good way. Be well, Andrew.

[AndrewP]

Another busy weekend. It was S's grandson's first birthday party on Saturday so the place was crowded again. I've been assured that this is the last big thing for a while. I was up until midnight doing the clean-up. The kids were a great help in doing the setup and cleanup. I even asked for help with a few things and they chipped right in.

The only other thing on the calendar is S17's birthday this coming weekend which will just be the 4 (or possibly 3) of us. He prefers it that way and his sisters are going camping and S13 may be spending time with his dad.

I met S's dad. A very interesting man and we got along rather well. S17 told me later that he thought that his grandpa quite liked me. He's in his mid 80s and still quite active.

The boys and critters are settling in. I think that the key thing from the boys is the elimination of the constant cloud and worry that was over top of them. S17 is pretty talkative and when I've driven him back and forth to work we do chat about all sorts of things including his goals at therapy etc. He was thrilled when I told him (after his mother asked me) that yes, the garage roof is quite safe and sound and he's spent hours up on there especially at night or in the hammock just watching the stars. Much different from being across from a noisy bar and convenience store that is the locus for local drug deals.

The relationship with the boys will evolve over time. There seems to be respect in both directions which is a good place to start from.

S's D25 is quite happy to have her mother so close to hand. She was by this morning and she, GS1, S13, S and the dog have all headed off to see "grandpa" and his central air conditioning. They're returning on Wednesday. S17 is staying here in part because he has to work. D25 and her H are staying with his parents and I think it's getting on her nerves more than a bit. They "do" have central air but don't turn it on. S joked that as soon as she left that I was probably going to open windows and turn off air conditioners. She wasn't wrong.

I do expect that the two daughters will be dropping in fairly often which is fine. They're good kids and D25 will at least pressure / assist her mother in the organizing.

Speaking of which, on Sunday I went into the larger shed, pulled everything out and re-arranged it. We can now easily get to any piece of furniture and some things that shouldn't be in the shed are inside now. We swapped kitchen tables and I think that S was quite pleased by that especially since I commented on how her's was so much nicer than what we had. Her D25 may be wanting our old one.

S has made some great progress in going through her own clothes and such that were piled up. I try to make sure to notice and comment. The current approach is to treat everything as temporary until we can get a handle on what we're dealing with.

I'm no longer worried about the critters getting along. The male cat is slowly coming along. Liz alternates between her normal "I hate the world" and being just beyond the rage horizon. The first stage can usually be mollified with belly rubs or brushing. To a non cat person it would probably be funny to see me pick up an upset cat and explain to them very quietly and carefully that the other cats live her now too and we all need to just get along.

------------

So - I was bad.

I set up an alternate facebook profile and had a peek at the world beyond my being blocked. There's really not a lot to see. It was freaky to see my ex-wife's page. From any other perspective you would think that she's still married to me. Lots of pictures of us together, this home, nothing at all related to OM or his family other than her selling off his stuff when they moved. No shots of their new house. Nothing. As if her life after leaving here doesn't exist. Truly weird.

A lot of my relatives and friends are no longer on her list. Some are. No big. S's D25 is still connected so my ex-wife would have seen pictures of her former back yard with a grand-child in it. S had thought that she was in that friend's list but she's not - read into that whatever we will.

It does show that she left her job at the liquor store in May and started working admin at a local campground the next month. I expect that there was drama involved and that she got the job at the campground as a favour. Glad I wasn't around when all that blew up.

I also lurked recently at OM's kids. With all due apologies to Dawn and other self-professed red-necks out there including myself - they are a bunch of Bubbas. Fishin, drinkin, golfin and hockey. A very different world than the one she used to live in. They probably all listen to Nickelback

I feel ok about all of this. It's consistent with what I expected.

Like a number of us, I can't help but feel bad in some ways for her. Although, this could be exactly the life she was wanting. I will literally never know.

I did also have a browse around to see what B might be up to that I was blocked from. There's really nothing visible to indicate that she's not still living one town over and that her STBX is still in. And he doesn't show anything to indicate that he's part of a couple. I wish her well and do hope that she's building a new life and not gone back to the old one.

----

Well - time to wrap things up.

S texted me that a friend of her's has a bunny that they are having to give up and asked if S13 could have it. We had agreed that S13 can have a pet of his own - we were thinking hamster - after things settled down. It comes with all the accouterments and S13 is certainly responsible enough. I've asked that everyone sleep on it before making a decision. I've certainly learned that the world turns as it will and not as I expect it to.

Quiet evening planned. I did pick up some beer this afternoon - S actually suggested it. There are lots of left-overs and random food around the house. It will probably be months before we get through much of it, especially in the freezer.

[Dawn70]

Any good, self-respecting redneck knows that Hank Williams Jr. and southern rock like Lynyrd Skynyrd, Marshall Tucker Band, .38 Special, CCR (and the list goes on) is where it is at, but what is with the hate on Nickelback? I actually love Nickelback. No offense taken, though. Hockey isn't a thing here in LA (Lower Arkansas for those not in the know), but let me tell you, I have a Canadian's love for a good live hockey match. So much fun and yet another excuse to drink beer and see a good fight, so there is that. I'm proud of my redneck roots and wouldn't trade it for anything in this world.

[DonH]

I set up an alternate facebook profile and had a peek at the world beyond my being blocked. There's really not a lot to see. It was freaky to see my ex-wife's page. From any other perspective you would think that she's still married to me. Lots of pictures of us together, this home, nothing at all related to OM or his family other than her selling off his stuff when they moved. No shots of their new house. Nothing. As if her life after leaving here doesn't exist. Truly weird.

I’d have to figure you already know this, but perhaps not? What you were able to see with your new fake account and what her friends can see are often not the same. I’m guessing this new/fake profile is not part of your ex Ws friends? So what you saw and what is really there are probably two different things - unless you somehow got her to accept a friend request. Older posts were likely public or friends of friends where newer posts may be friends only

[kml]

They probably all listen to Nickelback

ROFLMAO!

AS for the FB stalking - agreed, she probably changed her privacy settings. And don't do that too often or FB will start suggesting the fake you to them as a friend suggestion and they may figure out you're stalking.

So just get rid of that fake account and move on. Nothing rally to be gained from it.

As for another bunny - what is S13's preference for a pet? Is a bunny really what he want's? I wouldn't foist a pet on him that isn't what he wants just because someone else needs a favor. He may well want something different than what his brother has.

[bttrfly]

So - I was bad.

I set up an alternate facebook profile and had a peek at the world beyond my being blocked.

I did also have a browse around to see what B might be up to that I was blocked from. There's really nothing visible to indicate that she's not still living one town over and that her STBX is still in. And he doesn't show anything to indicate that he's part of a couple. I wish her well and do hope that she's building a new life and not gone back to the old one.

I'm sorry Andrew I find this behavior disturbing. Why would you do such a thing? Seriously.

[kml]

I think it's just natural to be curious, bttrfly. I've peeked at my ex's account once or twice in the past (although it's all private so I only see a few pictures.) It's really abnormal when you think about it to know so little about what has happened to these people we once cared for.

[Ginger1]

I happen to agree with bttfly. It’s one thing to peek into an account of someone who never blocked you...... but to make up a fake account because you want to see into the lives of people who blocked you.... ( they blocked you for a reason) it’s a little concerning .

[bttrfly]

I think it's just natural to be curious, bttrfly. I've peeked at my ex's account once or twice in the past (although it's all private so I only see a few pictures.) It's really abnormal when you think about it to know so little about what has happened to these people we once cared for.

sure. I understand that.
Where I draw the line is going to the lengths of creating fake accounts. That is disturbing to me.

[AndrewP]

Hi everyone from crazy land! Work is driving me nuts but I am largely having fun. It is making for some really long days though. I think I'm going to have to set my alarm back another 1/2 hour so that I can have my quiet morning "me" time and perhaps bathe.

Just finishing up now at 5:30 having started at 7:00. My boss was suggesting to me that he'll be having me start tracking rail cars as today's mistake was brought to you by the letters C and N (Canadian National Railway). I made vague promises about a delivery that can't happen because the rail car needed isn't where it was supposed to be. Some back-tracking to manage customer expectations and long phone calls were required.

The next couple of weeks are going to be even harder as I'm covering for a colleague on vacation and have a couple of tasks with fairly hard deadlines.

S has been off to visit her Dad's air conditioning and is expected back tonight. I did actually pick up some beer but it didn't "hit the spot" like it used to. I actually put the A/C on last night but the night before with just the fresh air was good. Hopefully this heat will break soon.

I'm very proud of S13. I asked that everyone "sleep on" the decision about the bunny adoption and he has made the choice to stick to the original plan of waiting until things calm down and getting a hamster. It was a tough decision I'm sure but it shows to me at least that he's taking the responsibility for the choice quite seriously.

Things with the cats are settling down now a bit too. "The girls" still get into fits from time to time but the 2 new cats are settling in. Right now the male cat alternates between being terrified and wanting to be friends, following the girls around meowing at them (all are fixed). I think it will all be fine.

Not much else going on. S17 is pretty much zero maintenance. I have to give him a ride to and from work and he's generally social. He was happy that I asked the owner of the store if his favourite brand of ice tea could be stocked. I also knocked together a hay feeder for his bunnies that neither of us are completely confident that it will work well.

I've peeked into S17's room and it is in complete chaos which isn't a surprise.

S is working on various plans on getting the boys outside and active. I expect them to meet with varying levels of success.

I did finally get my Father's Day card from D28 and she seems to be doing fairly well. They stay pretty much hunkered down at home. Still no word from S25. I'll maybe wait another week and then give him an actual phone call.

The stealth Facebook account I created was flagged as violating the terms of service and disabled so no worries about that any more. I had my look through the window - no need to look any more.

Well - I'm going to try to get a walk in despite the heat.

Nice to have a post with little or no controversy isn't it.

[bttrfly]

The stealth Facebook account I created was flagged as violating the terms of service and disabled so no worries about that any more. I had my look through the window - no need to look any more.

so, FB made the decision, not you?

And that = no worries?

You don't get it, do you?

[wooba]

“Curiosity killed the cat.”

I think sometimes curiosity gets the best of us. Also FB is fast with fake accounts. I once created a random account so I can let my S use it to link to a game, but the account was shut down in a few mins.

[AndrewP]

Yeah -

“Curiosity killed the cat.”

And Satisfaction brought it back.

I was actually logging on to remove it as I both felt that it had no further utility and also as kml suggested, I didn't want anyone to see the nose prints on their windows from me peeking in. I will admit that having satisfied that itch that I have very little curiosity about what's going on in my ex-wife's life now. Really it's "nothing to see here". She's undoubtedly not hugely happy but that's speculation on my part.

I remember early in this process always expecting her to "hit rock bottom" and thinking that each minor setback for her was that. Now - I'm confident that she'll cruise along in her life doing her thing while I do mine. People don't fundamentally change. They can wear masks for a while to delude others. More effective are the glasses we see these people through where we imagine them to be something they are not.

I regret the end of my marriage. I regret the loss of the life that I had planned. Those doors are closed now. There is no do-over. I can see no future where what I had would ever be again. The chapter completed. I am well embarked on the next phase of my life which while not at all what I expected is what has been what the fates have chosen to put in my path.

Life persists. And it's like the old phrase goes. Happiness is wanting what you have, not having what you want. I am a very fortunate man.

[LH19]

People don't fundamentally change. They can wear masks for a while to delude others. More effective are the glasses we see these people through where we imagine them to be something they are not.

hmmmmmmm, interesting.

[JujuB]

I was sure of the downward spiral of the walkaway as well... but nope. Never happened. It was my narrative of the world being a just place and him regretting like in the movies. I talk to people that leave their spouses - and no regrets. No moments of Remorse or coming through fogs. I think that’s just something we project and put out there. We paint these picture of what’s going on in their heads or label them damaged because we can’t understand Why their feelings for us changed. I wish I wasted less of my life analyzing ex and just looking at the actions. Thats why I can’t go on newcomers. It’s so obvious.

I expected my ex to hit rock bottom - especially with his history. And now I’m glad it never did - for my sons sake. I don’t regret the loss of my marriage though. It wasn’t healthy. Love your saying about happiness

[kml]

Some do hit bottom, some don’t. Hope my ex never does because I wouldn’t take him back in a million years, better for him he doesn’t wake up.

More effective are the glasses we see these people through where we imagine them to be something they are not.

Yeah, I wore those rose colored glasses for an awfully long time. They’re off now though and I see my ex for who he truly was, not who he pretended to be.

[AndrewP]

I did the math and there are now 13 souls living under this roof. Quite the change from 4 just a few months ago. S13 did well on his report card and is now the proud parent of a tiny hamster called "Sam" - with some sort of weird spelling and pronunciation recommended by his father.

2020 - despite dragging is seeming to just zoom by. Hard to believe that it's already mid-July and the wheat is getting ripe and the corn is just about to tassle. You can take the boy off the farm but not the farm out of the boy. I'm going to have to take some time off work fairly soon to start working on my fall preparations. Painting, exterior repairs etc.

I think everyone is settling in. S is currently busy bopping around the house with her favourite tunes cranked. Laundry on the line, dishes cleaned off the counter, and things being taken out of boxes and put away. I mentioned to her how happy she looked. The temporary break in the heat is certainly helping her mood and energy level.

Odd as it may seem, I think that one big thing for her at least today which the dog realized a while ago is that here, there isn't anything to constrain her. No worries about the land-lady or neighbours complaining. She can express herself and be herself. Freedom is perhaps an unfamiliar garment.

She is planning to have a "family meeting" soon to start assigning chores to everyone. There's been a bit of a free ride for pretty much everyone thus far. I had to back-track when I made a comment about doing "everything". S has contributed, just not at a very high level for various reasons. I think she was offended by the implication that she was also getting a free ride which is I think one of the reasons for today's domestic activity.

We also need to work on longer term family dynamics. I'm pretty sure that her expectations are very different from mine. She was upset it seems when I sent off a birthday card and present to my D28 and that she wasn't consulted and that it was just from me and not both of us. This came out when I got a card and small present for her S18 this past weekend. The model she says she expects is that we will talk about what we'll do and then it will be from both of us. Her basis for this is her parents where her Mom did everything gift wise and her Dad just signed his name - sometimes. Being as she never consulted me about S18's birthday gift beyond us setting a budget during the budget review at the end of June, I think she's just expecting to do everything like always.

I also feel that she's expecting everyone to "one big happy" with no real segregation between her kids and mine. I don't see that working with adult kids. S25 (soon S26) knows S's kids a bit but D28 doesn't and undoubtedly has no interest in doing so either. Something that will require careful navigating.

------------------------

It's coming up on the 4 year mark on when my ex-wife finally gathered her courage / the pressure got too much and she moved out. I've been reading back from time to time. My heavens, how different the world was then. In some ways I don't even recognize the man who was writing back then. So much more timid, constrained and fearful than I am now. Fundamentally the same person but so wrapped up in saving something that was already lost to him. Freedom is perhaps an unfamiliar garment.

Tomorrow I need to send off her monthly payment #33 of 77. Part of me wonders if she'll think of it being now 4 years since she too that irreversible step - I'd thought of putting a reminder in the note but no - no need. If she remembers, it's something she can do in private. Reading back, I clearly remember the fear, uncertainty and doubt that she showed. Back then I would have given anything to make it to not have happened and to roll the clock back. I still wore my wedding ring for months after.

It's also coming up on 1 year from when B decided to throw in the towel on our relationship. Right around now we'd bought a new bed because she found the old one hard on her back, got a new to us couch and were working towards permanence. But I was unhappy and B was also unhappy. I'm grateful to her for having the courage to call it quits. Whether she tried to work it out with her H or not is an open question. I have no information.

I can honestly say that I wish them both well. I have no hard feelings towards B at all. My ex - well - I'll never be able to forgive her and have no intentions on trying. But the anger has simmered down to just a general grumble and there never was any hate. Funny - her two biggest stated fears towards the end were me hating her and me letting her go and cutting her out of my life.

The clouds have left - it's a lovely cool day here and the sun is shining. I need to get S18 in to work and then put in another few hours getting the planning ready for tomorrow and following up on items.

Thanks for listening.

A bien tot mes amis.

[kml]

Freedom is perhaps an unfamiliar garment.

I like this.

I'm not sure how you spell or pronounce Sam any differently??? Glad S13 got his little hamster though and you seem to be coping with the menagerie quite well at the moment.

I picture you in a few weeks or months, sitting in an easy chair with all the creatures snuggled up to you. I suspect they will figure out you're a softy where animals are concerned.

I think I kind of agree with S - if you're engaged and living together, shouldn't presents be coming from the two of you as a couple? Or at least be coordinated between the two of you?

Glad to hear she's working on unpacking. It won't be easy but I suspect you will eventually reach a point of homeostasis, maybe not quite as neat as you would like but definitely much neater and calmer than what they are used to.

As for the alimony payments - almost halfway there! Look at them like house payments. You're paying off that freedom garment you're wearing.

Make sure you offer S a back massage or a hot bath tonight. Remember the dog training rule - reward the good behaviors, ignore the bad ones. It sounds like her heart is in the right place in so far as getting things organized, her ADD and the overwhelming size of the job may handicap her. But I think if you see her working on it that will go a long way towards you feeling better about doing maybe a bit more than your share. Just help her keep the momentum going so it doesn't overwhelm her.

[DnJ]

Hello Andrew

Nice update. Glad to see S13 did well on his report card. I also wonder how else can you spell “Sam”.

I also agree that you and S are a couple and gifts should be from the two of you or if separate discussed first.

The idea of “one big happy” will take some time and work to achieve. Be patient, blended families have some specific hurdles to work through.

My ex - well - I'll never be able to forgive her and have no intentions on trying.

You may be surprised someday. In four short years you have become a different and better man. That older self being somewhat unrecognizable. The future is unknown and you have lots of time in front of you. “Never be able to” is next to impossible to foretell.

The weather over here has turned a welcomed bit cooler as well. Have a great day my friend.

D

[Dawn70]

While I agree with kml and DnJ that, since y’all are a cohabitating couple, gifts should be from both of you, has she even met your daughter? I ask because we were in a similar situation recently. Sparky has 2 daughters: one he is very close to and considers me her stepmom, the other he has never been close to and he goes long periods of time without even talking to her. They recently talked some things out and have begun to rebuild their relationship but other than knowing of her existence and knowing her name, I know nothing about this girl. She is pregnant and he sent her a small gift and didn’t sign my name to the card. In fact, it was at my request that he didn’t because I told him I’d rather meet her before he starts signing my name even though we are married. Now, I know this is not your exact situation with S because you and your daughter have a good relationship and Sparky’s was broken but if S has never met your daughter or knows of her but hasn’t really ever even talked to her, I don’t see an issue with the gift just being from you. Like you said, with your adult kids, it might never be a one big happy family situation because adult kids have a lot of their own things to deal with.

[AndrewP]

It's a - probably - un-necessarily - complicated thing for me.

For many years I did the standard "Dad just signs the card while Mom figures everything out" thing but around when my daughter moved out on her own I asserted myself a bit more. Their mother would always be late and do something half-@ssed if at all and I really felt marginalized by the whole thing. I also felt that it was unfair to disappoint the kids by being late or absent in sending cards and gifts. So I started sending out my own cards for Valentines etc. My ex was peeved at me and got a shrug that if she wanted to send something out that she was welcome to do so but that these were my kids too and I was going make sure that I recognized important celebrations.

She never did mail out cards to the kids for any reason even after that. For Christmas cards it was all my doing as well. The one year that she said that she would do it, it never happened. Not sure what she does now but I doubt it's changed a lot.

Colouring S with that same brush of being last minute or rushed is perhaps unfair but given nearly a year of observation, not necessarily wrong. She never did mail her son in Australia's Christmas present. And she wonders why he never seems interested in calling her.

S has zero history with D28 and brief and superficial history with S25 and it rankles that I should be subordinating my interactions to anyone. Something that I need to figure out. It will be S25's birthday next month so I have a few weeks to sort that out. If we can do it together then I can probably accept that but from past history with S's kids, I get handed a card to sign while the kid is out of the room between courses of the birthday meal and that's the input I've gotten.

----------

For those who are playing the home game - I got a surprise phone call from my cardiologist and my appointment is on Monday. 7 months out from when I was having pains that it was felt I should check out.

We are returning slowly to a sort of normal here. We'll be entering "phase 3" this weekend where indoor dining etc will be allowed. I'm in no hurry to rush out. I am thinking of taking a week or so off in August though and we may do some day trips or even an overnight. There are a couple of hot spots in Ontario - far away from where I live but people from there do drive past my house on their way to the beach or camping, stopping at local shops on the way. I am worried about S13 heading back to school in the fall - class sizes are large here and it's an enclosed space for a long period of time. I just checked the local health unit web page and we are currently at 5 days with no new cases but that could quickly change if everyone decides to go to the movies at the same time.

Well - enough for now. I need to get the "girls" captured and ready to go to the vet for their annual shots and wellness check. Wish me luck.

[kml]

Drive them into a box canyon, I hear that works

As for your history with the ex and cards - you should explain all that to S exactly as you did to us. It makes sense to me and might help her realize it's not an affront to her. Then you can work out how you'd like to do things. One option is she buys for her kids and you just sign the card, and you buy for your kids and she just signs the card.

Another option is you become in charge of making sure things from the two of you are bought/mailed on time.

And wow - she still hasn't mailed the son in Australia his Xmas present? What's behind that? She got behind and now is too embarrassed to send it? The postage was going to be too great for her budget? She got miffed at him and decided not to send it? If I were her kid and she'd done that I don't think I'd be too swift to return calls either.

I believe I've mentioned before that CMM is estranged from his 3 daughters. I didn't really realize the full situation until after he was diagnosed with cancer and started living with me. It's none of my business and I stay out of it but honestly. if he hadn't developed cancer and we were just dating, once I realized the extent of this and his probable role in it it could have been the end of our relationship. I can't respect a parent who doesn't try harder with their kids.

[AndrewP]

Drive them into a box canyon, I hear that works

It went smoothly even with the social distancing at the vet clinic. The girls were on different floors and were able to be dumped into their carriers with no drama. Everyone is in good health and we have an estimate for getting the dog spayed. We weren't allowed inside and had the consult with the vet over the phone from our car.

There's a follow-up in 4 weeks for the dog (who was behind on her shots) and for the other 2 cats who are way behind on their shots to get caught up.

An argument could be made for not having pets when you can't afford to properly care for them. I read an article a while ago that resonated with me. It involved an interview with a low income person who explained that yes - as a low income person that it may be a poor choice to indulge in what some would call luxuries. However the net benefit to them mentally far outweighed the costs. I try to keep that in mind and not judge the choices of others. These pets were a great comfort to S and her kids and are part of the family. They didn't have as good of level of care as for example my girls have had. But there's a big difference between a bachelor with no debt and a comfortable 6 figure income vs a single mom with 4 kids at home and a fixed income. I've never been a very judgmental person and my experiences over the last number of years have made me even less so.

------------

And wow - she still hasn't mailed the son in Australia his Xmas present? What's behind that? She got behind and now is too embarrassed to send it? The postage was going to be too great for her budget? She got miffed at him and decided not to send it? If I were her kid and she'd done that I don't think I'd be too swift to return calls either.

S freely admits that one of the things she is horrible at is making appointments and hitting deadlines. She is capable of doing it when necessary but her brain just doesn't seem to work that way. She's managed for all of these years but lots of things are let slide. After they've slid far enough, they are let go of. There is undoubtedly some embarrassment but as this is just the way she is, she accepts it as do the people around her. As another example she still hasn't gotten around to getting S18 a birthday gift nor helping S13 get one for him. It may happen, it may not. The kids don't really seem to notice as this is their normal. As another example, she does laundry when she runs out of clean clothes and then does what is needed to get back on track. I do laundry on Saturday. And do it all. Different brains. Different ways of getting things done. Both seem to work. As far as her relationship with her oldest son, it is kind of like mine with S25. They are fond of each other but rarely talk.

[kml]

You might check out a well-reviewed book on ADHD called Living Right Now by Kutscher. It might give you more insights and some practical tips for living with and helping the ADD people in your house. (You might also suggest that S get her ferritin and B12 checked as iron deficiency and B12 deficiency are common in celiac disease and either could contribute to ADD symptoms and fatigue).

And OMG get that dog spayed yesterday or you'll be swimming in puppies too! If S doesn't have the money to do it just pay for it - it'll be a lot MORE expensive if that dog gets knocked up.

I think the thing that those of us who are competent with our money and comfortably middle class don't realize is that people in chronic poverty don't think it will ever get better. There is no "saving up" to afford a pet or trip or cell phone or whatever when you are always short of money at the end of the month anyway, so just get it. The skills that we take for granted of budgeting, finding the best deals, planning, are skills that many (not all) poor people lack or simply don't have the luxury of time to implement. Some also grew up in families that were similarly dysfunctional with money so they don't know any better.

As for laundry - teach the boys to do their laundry and have a day of the week set aside for them to do it. They're old enough to do their own and it's a life skill they need. (I remember being horrified when I went with my oldest on a college tour and the student leading the tour showed us the laundry facilities and commented on how most college students don't know how to do laundry when they arrive!!! Mine had been doing their own laundry since they were 13) Let S do her own laundry on her own schedule and let go of any concerns over it.

And you need to sit down and get that chore chart made up this weekend - the longer you go without one the more the boys will resent it when it comes. And recognize that at least in the beginning they may need your participation - sending an ADD person into a chaotic bedroom to clean it doesn't go well, but having another person there helping can teach them the skills needed. S could do this too but she might not have the skills?

[Dawn70]

Oh Andrew.....you are just such a truly nice man. Seriously. S has totally hit the jackpot in you. I suspect that she has not encountered a lot of men in her life who are as forgiving of her lack of routine as you. I'm a very routine, very structured person and that is what works for me. I can't do fly by the seat of my pants. It just does NOT work for me. It does concern me for you and her moving forward that her lack of urgency about deadlines and such might get old and wear on you. It wore on me just reading the above and I don't have to live it. I'm like you, I do laundry once a week. It is usually either Saturday or Sunday, depending on which day I don't have other things going. If we have things to do outside the house, like grocery shopping on Saturday, I will do laundry on Sunday. It isn't a hard and fast schedule, but it is schedule enough that Sparky knows when to expect laundry to be done and if he needs something outside that time frame, then he handles it.

I TRY not to be judgmental but often fall short, so I immediately felt judgmental on your behalf at the comment that S's brain "doesn't work that way" when it comes to deadlines, appointments, etc. That sounds like a convenient excuse for just not dealing with things. It also sounds like setting herself (and her children) up for failure. They learn by example. Take all that with a grain of salt because I know it is extremely judgmental. I began my career in education when ADD and AD/HD were constantly diagnosed for students and Ritalin and other drugs were prescribed when, in many cases, these students really just needed a good butt whipping and some rules and boundaries from their parents. I'm not saying these conditions do not exist because they absolutely do, but I think sometimes, they are used as crutches and excuses for people to be disorganized or lazy or inattentive to things when they just don't want to deal with them. The fact that you have shared that S is this way and her children are this way makes me wonder how much of it is truly a legitimate ADD/ADHD issue and how much of it is just getting by however she can and has passed that on to the kids.

I just know I would have a difficult time living with someone who was like that and it would be a lot of work on my part to stay sane and not just push the person aside and say let me do it. But, then again, I'm a bit of a control freak, so there is that. LOL (Lord love Sparky!!!!!) I just want you to be careful, Andrew. I want you to have all the good things and enjoy your life with S.

[kml]

On the other hand, I've gone my whole life without having a scheduled laundry day. My laundry basket filled up and I washed them. I did not however wait until there was nothing to wear. The only reason I do laundry on the same day of the week now is because CMM needed a scheduled day (where he could be sure he wouldn't have to remove my son's clean underwear from the dryer - HORRORS!) and I just do mine at the same time.

I say, let S do her own laundry however she wants but teach the boys to do their own and give them a day or an evening to do it with you so it doesn't get constantly postponed. Try to make it a fun time to teach them if you can (I know, what's fun about laundry? But mastery is always fun.)

As for the overdiagnosis of ADD - it definitely happened, mostly to energetic rambunctious boys, but it is also a real disorder. And it doesn't benefit people who really suffer from ADD to view them as lazy. Just try to give them an environment in which they can thrive and teach them how to compensate. They'll need those skills in school and in life.

Of interest, I "attended" a virtual conference this weekend on Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, a genetic connective tissue disorder. There was a lecture on ADHD which surprised me, but apparently the risk of ADHD in these patients is 5 times average. (Risk of autism spectrum disorders is 7 times!). Google Beighton score, people, if you or family members are "double-jointed" or hyperflexible or frequent dislocators..

[Dawn70]

When I lived alone, I didn't have a certain day I did laundry either but I'm not one who changes clothes a million times a day so I could go a week or so without doing any laundry. I would just wash a load when I had a load of like colors/items. It usually ended up that I did most of my loads on weekends, but that wasn't necessarily for any other reason than that is just how it fell when I needed more stuff. I never waited until I had nothing clean to wear though. I have a schedule now because my husband's job is one where he gets very dirty and so he has certain clothes that he wears and only has a finite amount of shirts/pants/socks that he wears to work. So, it makes sense to do all the laundry together on one day, weekends, rather than to do his on weekends then do mine whenever. It is just easier. I agree that S is a grown woman, so let her do her thing, but work with the boys so that they learn the value of a routine. If Sparky needs or wants something different to wear outside of the "regular" laundry schedule, he handles it, otherwise, I do it on the weekend.

I agree and actually said in my response to Andrew that ADD/ADHD is a real thing. Never said that it wasn't. But as a school teacher, I have seen plenty of students use it as an excuse to screw off. Of course if someone actually has ADD/ADHD then they are not typically lazy. My overall point there was that, if S and crew have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD there are some strategies that would likely benefit her and them in being more organized and having a better structure. If they haven't been diagnosed, it is POSSIBLE (may not be the case and may not even be likely, but is still technically possible) that they use it as an excuse for poor choices. I have seen ADD/ADHD students, actually diagnosed students, absolutely thrive when they get a handle on a "system" that works best for them, depending on their specific affliction. I have seen students with an actual diagnosis flounder because parents didn't or wouldn't figure out a way to help them focus and learn how to deal with things. Either way, I think Andrew's love for routine (which I totally get because I'm in the same boat) could benefit S and her boys, whether they have actual diagnoses or not. It is just a matter of figuring out a way to guide them without having to be all dad about it. For the record, Andrew, I'm totally not making fun of your routine thing. I'm totally here for it. I joke all the time that I would be both the easiest and most boring person in the world to stalk because I'm so routine.

[DonH]

As for laundry - teach the boys to do their laundry and have a day of the week set aside for them to do it. They're old enough to do their own and it's a life skill they need. (I remember being horrified when I went with my oldest on a college tour and the student leading the tour showed us the laundry facilities and commented on how most college students don't know how to do laundry when they arrive!!!

I may have regaled this little story before but I remember staying at the parents of a 40 year old band member when we were out west on the road. I put some clothes in their wash machine as this guy watched in amazement. “How did you know how to do that?” As if I just took off flying an airplane. 40 years old, a licensed plumber, and has never washed a load of clothes in his life. Keeps finding women who will mother him just like his mommie did for all those years.

Seriously. S has totally hit the jackpot in you. I suspect that she has not encountered a lot of men in her life who are as forgiving of her lack of routine as you.

I agree! As I’ve said before Andrew should not lose a wink of sleep worrying about S leaving - it’s completely the other way around. She needs to know how lucky she is. I suspect S25 knows this, is a bit disgusted by it, and rather not see it. Just my guess. Most everyone I know would have passed on this “opportunity” long ago. I hope S knows how lucky she is. I know I’ve said this before too but I really hope the cost to you (in all ways, not just financial) is even Marginally close to the return you get.

[AndrewP]

I say, let S do her own laundry however she wants but teach the boys to do their own and give them a day or an evening to do it with you so it doesn't get constantly postponed. Try to make it a fun time to teach them if you can (I know, what's fun about laundry? But mastery is always fun.)

Good plan. Fits with the chore chart concept. S can do scheduled - for everyone else.

As for the overdiagnosis of ADD - it definitely happened, mostly to energetic rambunctious boys, but it is also a real disorder. And it doesn't benefit people who really suffer from ADD to view them as lazy. Just try to give them an environment in which they can thrive and teach them how to compensate. They'll need those skills in school and in life.

I agree and actually said in my response to Andrew that ADD/ADHD is a real thing. Never said that it wasn't. But as a school teacher, I have seen plenty of students use it as an excuse to screw off. Of course if someone actually has ADD/ADHD then they are not typically lazy. My overall point there was that, if S and crew have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD there are some strategies that would likely benefit her and them in being more organized and having a better structure.

Both S and her younger set of kids have an official diagnosis and treatment plan. The school claims to be doing some accommodation but other than a couple of outstanding teachers, really did nothing.

S's younger brother also had it but back in the 1970s the normal way to deal with this was to either beat it out of you or toss you out of school. He's built himself a life and business but had a lot of struggles and also consumed a lot of the energy from their parents which S still resents.

We openly acknowledge that we all think differently, especially me vs them. And we work on ways to have that work in our favour.

Either way, I think Andrew's love for routine (which I totally get because I'm in the same boat) could benefit S and her boys, whether they have actual diagnoses or not. It is just a matter of figuring out a way to guide them without having to be all dad about it. For the record, Andrew, I'm totally not making fun of your routine thing. I'm totally here for it. I joke all the time that I would be both the easiest and most boring person in the world to stalk because I'm so routine.

Awe shucks I know it's done with affection. I probably joke about it more than anyone else.
The boys and S really like and appreciate a structure I've found. They like living within it, but can't create it. So for example one thing I've found is that they really like that when they have to be somewhere that I've got it all figured out and they just have to get in the car. No scrambling, no last minute panics. And they arrive on time and not embarrassingly late - something I hear regular grumbles about when their mother is doing the organizing.

As an aside, I was yet again impressed with the boys last night, especially S13. They loved the trampoline that they had at S's STBX's house so after talking it through and checking prices we ordered one that was delivered yesterday.

S13 helped me put it together. Physically he is about 7 so sometimes it's easy to forget that there's a 13 year old brain inside there. We worked together pretty well and followed the plan. Take all the parts out and sort them. S13 read through the instructions and guided the job, put parts into place. He helped with the bolting etc and (surprisingly to me) learned the difference between bolts, screws, flat washers, lock washers and had the fasteners all sorted and ready to install as we went around. He pointed out mistakes I made during assembly and we had a good laugh sorting those things out. I don't think he's ever been involved in anything like this before much less played a leading role. It required some patience on my part but TBH not a lot as he's a good kid and was keen. I think it also gives him a lot of pride to do things like this.

Yes, he got bored / distracted and wandered off a few times for a short while but he hung around and helped with the multi-hour job.

I was only slightly weirded when he compared me (yet again) and the trampoline to "what was". Again, I have better hygiene (a big thing for the kids for some reason) and a much bigger focus on safety and following instructions than my predecessor. All the safety pads and spring being in place and everything carefully fastened wasn't something they had experienced before.

After assembly I had the boys both test the safety netting by throwing themselves at it which I think surprised them but they wholeheartedly agreed that it was important to test this before trusting it. S18 is quite the gymnast and was doing flips and jumps all over and he and S13 I think had quite the "brother bonding" time on it last night.

----

I like to think that I'm aware enough to recognize that S has landed in a pretty cushy spot here that she would be silly to give up on. But on the other hand I believed that with B last year too. And about my ex-wife. All three are strong women with a lot of personal pride. 2 of them knowing that, walked away for their own reasons. It makes me rather less cocky.

I have a lot of learning to do on how to mesh my ways with their's and visa versa. I think that S has started making extra efforts on that part too as she has told me multiple times how much it bothers me that I never seem to stop so I think she's now actively looking for ways to make my life easier. Her attempts are generally helpful.

[kml]

Good job on the trampoline! I’m sure S13 loved being able to help assemble it and learned some useful things in the process. The fact that you are appreciated for having “better hygiene” than the ex says something, doesn’t it? I’m guessing both the boys feel a sense of relief at a real grownup being present. And I bet both the boys and S appreciate you being able to teach them “guy” stuff.

Now in all this hubbub don’t forget to speak S’s love language. What was it again?

[DnJ]

Good Morning Andrew

Well done with the trampoline. I’m sure S13 is pleased with your attention and guidance. He learnt much more than sorting screws and bolts.

S13 comparing you to your predecessors, to his “what was”, is a good thing. That’s his world view. He is finding his way in this new landscape as well. You are doing a good job.

And any Dad that actually encourages a boy to throw themselves at the safety nets to “test” them. Hey that’s pretty cool. Of course he loved it.

D

[AndrewP]

Now in all this hubbub don’t forget to speak S’s love language. What was it again?

Don't think I've ever mentioned it. Quality time and physical touch. Difficult to achieve in the present chaos and also because it's often 2:00 am before she comes to bed and I'm up by 6. Brief times sitting on the couch is the best I can do right now. And that only lasts until the rest of the zoo comes through to play video games or watch sit-coms.

---

This stuff isn't easy. Had a difficult conversation over my lunch break with S after she told me that her daughter, son-in-law and grandson would be coming for Sunday dinner every Sunday. She said that if it was a problem that her daughter would be happy to take over the kitchen and cook.

This was based on a comment I made at some point where I said that I was happy to have them over and that I enjoyed feeding people.

It took quite an effort for me to push back and say that that was just too much. Which then led down the garden path of my working too hard, being too stressed, not relaxing and watching TV with her etc etc. A discussion of the fact that I don't tend to watch TV led to a question of "what DO you want to watch". She knows that I have watched TV and own one but the fact that I don't sit in front of it most days and it actually lived in an enclosed cabinet baffles her I think. My walks - which have been much less frequent lately - aren't considered acceptable relaxation. S has a tendency in arguments to turn them back on all the other things that she has an issue with and not actually dealing with the core question.

On a good note though I did get her to agree that no more than once every 2 weeks for a larger family dinner. And that I would be more than happy to have help. Because it was already planned for this Sunday I said that that didn't need to be cancelled. It would be a rather jerk thing to do. I'm pretty unhappy about it because the dining room can't be found at present although I'm sure something will be figured out. Realistically I'd have preferred to wait for a month or two for us to settle but I can't deny her time with her own kids.

Part of the conversation had me remind her that the weekends were the ONLY time that we really have together and that losing that wasn't what I wanted. And even then, I'm usually running errands and doing things. S has said that she and the boys will start helping with getting some of my weekend load off of me.

I did point out that this was a very new environment for me and that the crowding and chaos was an awful lot. And that I could use a break from all the activity. I acknowledged that the unpacking chaos was probably going to be a thing for some time.

I don't think she understands my belief that S25 doesn't want to come by to the mess, chaos and crowd. She believes that he'll just blend right in with the rest of the kids. I've been reaching out to him for the past few weeks in different ways but no response. Today I tried an actual call - not hugely surprised that he didn't answer. He usually doesn't answer his phone. I left a voice-mail saying I'd like to get together for lunch or what-not. Fingers crossed that he'll answer.

It's his birthday coming up in a month and I did tell S that we needed to talk about it and that I didn't expect to be getting him a present. I think I got a confused "why are you asking me about this" sort of look.

We've got a loooong way to go. The end goal is worth it. The present is chaos and just needs to be walked through calmly.

PS - cardiologist appt on Monday. I expect him to not be real happy with me and to tell me to walk more.

[kml]

1) Why on earth would you not buy your son a birthday present? And please, just show up at his doorstep some evening, make sure he's ok. I can only imagine he feels pushed out and replaced.

2) Can S walk with you? Would be good for her back and would give her quality time with you. If not (I think I remember you saying her idea of a walk was much shorter than yours?) then maybe she can just join the first part.

3) Can you just sit and read with her while she watches television? Or sit with her and work on something? Or maybe pick one night a week that is "Andrew's Pick Movie Night" so she knows she can look forward to one night when you'll just snuggle and watch something with her.

4) I think every other Sunday is a fair compromise for Sunday dinners. She could always got to their place on alternate Sundays and give you some alone time if that works.

5) Is there some reason she doesn't come to bed until 2? I get that your early schedule is too early for her, and some people are natural night owls, but seems like some compromise could be made.

6) Maybe instead of television watching after you're done with work, you could work together with her to unpack and get the rooms together, one at a time, maybe starting with the dining room? Working together can be a form of quality time if you are chatting together and I think your relationship will be better once this is off of your shoulders. Or if that's not feasible, consider moving everything into a shed and having just one box come into the house at a time to unpack.

Bear in mind that she has very little to occupy her time (except unpacking which seems to overwhelm her) while you are busy on many fronts. She's not getting the kind of attention she got from you when you were dating and I'm sure that's an issue for her.

[Ginger1]

From the outside looking in it seems as if she moved in and took over and wants everyone to blend into her family and lifestyle. I’m just saying this is what it looks like from out here and may not be the case. And I would say it’s a safe bet that’s what your son sees and wants nothing to do with it. But I would make an unannounced visit to your son just to check on him.

And it is invalidation of your feelings and who you are when you find a walk relaxing but for her that doesn’t constitute you properly relaxing?!? Walks are very relaxing to some. When I was capable, high intensity workouts were relaxing to me. It’s not for anyone else to label and that’s total invalidation. It seems as she only finds the way she views things and and does things is the “right” way. It seems as if quality time is only as she views it. If you are watching TV with her. She didn’t get you don’t care what show, you just don’t like TV. Her compromise was to do what she wants, which is watch TV.

What does she compromise on for you? And I would absolutely express that it would be great if she could sort through the dining room table so you can accommodate everyone for Sunday supper. To me it almost seems to be a no brainer

Again, from the outside it looks like you are fitting into her box, only she moved her box and contents into your home.

Be honest and true to yourself. And really go check on your S.

[kml]

Ginger, I suspect she doesn't view the walks as relaxation because it's not relaxing to her and it's not quality time to her because she can't keep up. That's why I suggested she walk with him just part of the way, she will get quality time with him then and he can continue his walk without her. She may be motivated to get more fit to walk further with him in time. (One word though - for people with back problems, it's best if the walk is on flat ground, not hills.)

Andrew is a doer - a busy person who has projects and also likes to spend time making sure things are a certain way. Nothing wrong with this but S is right about one thing - it doesn't lend itself to relaxation. She may not be doing as much as she should or could to pick up the slack yet but she is seeing that Andrew is running himself ragged and is trying in her way to look after him - that's good. (I'm reminded a bit of my own marriage - I used to say my ex was constitutionally incapable of just lazing in bed on a Sunday morning drinking coffee and reading the paper. He always had to be up and doing things at a frenetic pace. One Saturday I took our daughter to ballet lessons and by the time I got back an hour later he had removed a 3/4 height wall without warning me. Of course, in retrospect I think my ex was hypomanic and Andrew isn't that.)

When she says relaxation I suspect she is also meaning Quality Time, which is in short supply for her right now. One way to feed the need for Quality Time is to stop multi-tasking. Stop whatever you are doing when she speaks to you, look directly at her and have the conversation. I learned a little too late that cooking dinner and cleaning the kitchen while conversing with my ex did not feed his need for quality time. Also, if she could somehow adjust her schedule to go to bed with you (even if she got back up later after you fell asleep) that might also result in more Quality Time.

S may also simply not have as much physical energy as Andrew due to her health problems.I think carving out dedicated scheduled time that is for her: a movie night once a week that you participate in, or a dedicated date night, or some such could go a long way towards making her feel better about things. She has a time to look forward to when you will be paying attention to, and snuggling with, her. That makes the rest of the week easier. And you, Andrew, have the time set aside for that so it won't be a constant intrusion on your scheduled things.

[Ginger1]

I think rub here is, literally, 5X as much responsibility moved into the house, and one person to take care of them. S has physical ailments and ADHD that prevents her from doing them, according to Andrew, so he has about 5X more responsibility than he ever did fall on his shoulders and in his house. How is supposed to slow it down more and provide more quality time which she deems is quality ( sitting around ) and keep up with the chaos? Something has to give.

Hey, I’m pretty laid back, my house can be messy, I have prioritize whT I do. What I don’t think I could sit and relax woth all that work looming around me while working a full time job. Multiple pets and critters 2 new children, and a new woman who can’t really keep up with what needs to be kept up woth has got to be exhausting f and anxiety ridding .

If she really wants that quality time, she would hve tonrealize she has to pick up the slack.

I say it to my D all the time. If she wants more quality time, she has got to chip and get housework done. We have responsibilities that won’t take care of themselves. She helps me, we do something fun together

[DonH]

From the outside looking in it seems as if she moved in and took over and wants everyone to blend into her family and lifestyle.

It looks like you are fitting into her box, only she moved her box and contents into your home.

This is a very astute observation and one i wholeheartedly concur with. That last sentence boarders of brilliant. Okay, perhaps that's a bit much but it's certainly really, really good.

Why on earth would you not buy your son a birthday present? And please, just show up at his doorstep some evening, make sure he's ok. I can only imagine he feels pushed out and replaced.

Once again, me too! I know you say it's just how he is or whatever but this is not typical and is not natural for any father-son relationship. Only someone not happy with something would purposely dodge his father's calls, texts, emails and requests to meet. Something is up here. Pretending it's not is a really, really bad idea. But you're a pretty smart guy, Andrew. I think you already sense something is wrong but your way of dealing with it is by not dealing with it and hoping it will go away or somehow just fix itself. Time heals nothing. It's what is done during that time. You really need to talk with your son. There is pretty little downside for going over and knocking on his door as KML suggests. Especially if you are correct, and there is nothing up and he's just being himself, well then there should be no concern about showing up.

[kml]

Agreed, but honestly, it sounds like a big job that is overwhelming her. I think Andrew is wrong to think he can just live with it for a while as it slowly gets sorted - that's probably not something she can really do on her own. Maintaining it once everything is sorted is hella easier than trying to maintain AND tackle the sorting. That's why I suggested one option is to put everything into a shed, taking out one box at a time to process - the house in the meantime could be organized and clean. Less stress and resentment on everyone's part.

If it was me I would Blitzkrieg through a weekend and get everything essential put away, and put the rest into a shed or garage or basement until later. I'd maybe even hire a cleaning service to come in once just to get everything up to snuff. S may have the best of intentions of sorting through her stuff but this shouldn't be allowed to be a chronic condition of the house. It needs to be isolated away from the living spaces so all can feel comfortable in the home. She has her clothes, essential kitchenware, and family photos put out, and the rest can wait for her leisure somewhere other than in the living spaces of the house.

How many boxes are we talking, Andrew? Are there fifty or ten?

[AndrewP]

S has been doing decently on the unpacking I feel. She considers herself a pro at moving and so it's best to keep my nose largely out of it. I do know that she appreciates my positivity about what she has been able to accomplish.

Part of things is that I still have the echos of my ex-wife and her attitudes about me not touching "her stuff". I'm pretty sure S has a bit of that when I was joking about having lots of stuff that we could donate she got her back up and pointed out that I wasn't to be getting rid of "her" stuff.

We did spend a bunch of time in the back yard last night with a small fire - S13 had learned fire starting at camp and S had a big pile of papers to burn. It was good despite the mosquitoes. I took an antihistamine before bed when I went in around 10. S showed up around 2 or so.

I think for her she just can't sleep - it's a thing in her genetics. She, her brother and the kids. None of them are capable of getting a good night's sleep and so stay up and get over-tired. She has come in once when I was going to bed and spent some time with me a few weeks ago and it was quite appreciated. But I don't think it will be a thing.

----

Feeling a bit grumpy about the whole "you need to relax more" and "I've invited a bunch of people over" thing. I'll get over it. I am so crazy busy with everything - especially work. I've put in a few hours this morning already. I did finally get up the nerve to push back on a task on a doomed project that I really just am unable to do for a variety of reasons. I was gratified when one of the company presidents backed me up on it.

Thanks for the input - I do appreciate it. Unlike in a personal diary I do like that there is actually feedback here.

I really don't know what to do about S25. I physically can't just drop by - he lives in a second floor apartment and has no doorbell. I expect that his mother hasn't seen much of him either - not that I have any way of knowing. I think right now he's probably working 7 days / week as it's one of the hottest summers I can recall and his job is moving pallets of ice-cream on and off trucks. He knows where I am. That I want to see him. Patience is the only thing that I can imagine being effective. I'm going to try to get S to assist in picking out a card for him for his birthday. That's still a month away so it's up in the air about how it would be celebrated.

Well - off to the bank and some other errands. I have little clue on what we need for groceries so will just do some basics I think.

[pinn]

She has come in once when I was going to bed and spent some time with me a few weeks ago and it was quite appreciated. But I don't think it will be a thing.

This could be a great opportunity for you to figure out if this relationship has legs for the long term. Did you express to her how much this was appreciated? If not, you should ASAP and observe what happens. If yes, then you can judge her actions. Does she make an effort to make this a thing once in a while or not? If you do or did express how much this was appreciated and an effort on her part is never made, welp, that is a big red flag for the long term hopes of this relationship. And there is really little room for interpretation, either she makes an effort (even if it is small) or she does not. If it were me and no effort was made, it would lead me to question who was really at fault for the failures of her previous relationships/marriages.

The different bed times is interesting to me for relationships in general. I wonder how much this plays a role in problems in relationships and its tricky because of course everyone is different. I firmly believe this lead to issues in my marriage looking back (I am a morning person as well) though I know I did not think anything of it at the time.

[Dawn70]

I think for her she just can't sleep - it's a thing in her genetics. She, her brother and the kids. None of them are capable of getting a good night's sleep and so stay up and get over-tired. She has come in once when I was going to bed and spent some time with me a few weeks ago and it was quite appreciated. But I don't think it will be a thing.

I have to be super honest and blunt here. I’m not a doctor so the whole not sleeping thing may very well be a genetic issue. However, based on the picture you paint of S and her crew, it leads me to a totally different and completely non-professional opinion. I get the sense, before the brood moved into your house, there was very little structure in their lives. You say they’ve moved a good bit, S and the kids are diagnosed with ADD, the kids are given no responsibility, tell stories of pets not well-kept because no one was stepping up, and S has underlying health issues on top of her ADD that make it rather difficult for her to keep an orderly house. I further suspect that before Covid, school was the one thing that gave them some semblance of a routine but I’d also speculate that they were late to school or didn’t go at all on a relatively regular basis and were hit or miss with homework and outside projects. I imagine they all stay up late under the guise of can’t sleep and S doesn’t really do much to enforce bedtime and that sort of thing. I’m not saying S is a bad mom but I suspect she’s more of a friend mom than a disciplinarian mom. I think with Covid and remote schooling and all that, the kids were staying up late playing video games then sleeping as late as possible. Sparky and I have a similar bedtime issue because he has to be at work way earlier than I. Because it is important to both of us to go to bed together, we do and spend 30 minutes or an hour unwinding by watching a cooking show or something similar on tv. Then we turn off the tv and lights and he goes to sleep, once he’s soundly asleep, if I’m not sleepy yet, I’ll slip out of bed and go to the living room and read or watch tv.

None of the big differences mean that y’all can’t work together and come to a compromise that works for both sides, but your last few posts have raised some HUGE red flags where S is concerned in my mind. She knows you value order, routine and yet she doesn’t do anything to tame her own chaos to meet you halfway. She wants you to relax but she gives an open invitation to her family to Sunday dinner every week, knowing you like to be in charge in the kitchen and it will be hard for you not to feel some pressure. She has all these health issues that keep her from doing much so chaos just reigns. I’d have a very hard time with that. I realize you aren’t her father and shouldn’t act as such but could you help her figure out a way to set goals or make a list or whatever of things to do each day to help keep her from getting overwhelmed? What about the chore chart for the kids? I know I mentioned it before and then you said later she was working on it, but is she? I like to watch tv as much as the next guy and I could easily get sucked in if I allowed myself to and not get anything done, so I make a priority list every morning of what I want to get done that day. Occasionally, there are things I either want Sparky to do or need his help with those so I set those aside and discuss with him.

Also this whole thing about not touching her stuff. This seems like a sticking point for both of you. You are conditioned by your XW to be hands off. Then S makes a big deal about your not throwing her stuff away. This is something y’all both need to work on together. Of course y’all both have personal property you want to keep. You’re a respectful person, Andrew, but you aren’t a child so stop acting like you’re being punished by someone fussing about not touching their stuff. Help S find places to put stuff or let go of stuff. When you combine 2 households, it can be a delicate balance but y’all are both adults and y’all need to figure it out together other than her fussing and you tucking your tail like a chastised child.

I think you compromise yourself a lot and make excuses for her but she’s a grown woman who can and should be held responsible for her actions. I am in complete agreement with what G said. You seem to be making all the sacrifices, doing all the work, while S rules YOUR roost and fusses at you when you don’t fall in line with her expectations. She seems to use her health and ADD as excuses for not getting things done and you make the same excuses for her. I know that sounds heartless on my part and I’m sorry for that but you are doing the lion’s share here. I think Don has pointed out more than once that S should be acting like she is the one who is grateful and would be in danger of losing you rather than you acting like you are the one who would lose. I get it, it isn’t a game but you are constantly showing her, and all of us through your posts, that you clearly don’t value your own needs or see your own worthiness. S is in the drivers seat because you allow her to be by coddling her and making excuses about all of her bad relationships in the past but at what point do you take a more objective look and go “hey wait.....maybe SHE was at least part of the problem” instead of it being ALL on her exes the way you make it sound like she tells the story.

I think all good, solid relationships take work. They take time, communication, compromise. That communication and compromise should go both ways. I worry that S’s string of bad previous relationships leaves her somewhat ill-equipped to communicate and compromise effectively and I also fear that because you are a nice guy and a rescuer, you don’t always push back and hold your ground to make her meet you half way. I still want to see you and S succeed. I know I come across as extremely negative where she is concerned and I’m sorry that is harsh. I worry that you are not getting your fair share in this deal, if that makes sense. S hit the jackpot in winning your heart. Can you say the same?

In regards to your son, stop making excuses there too. You say you can’t go see him because he lives upstairs so I’m assuming it is a secure building you have to be buzzed in or whatever. You say this is just how he is but I agree with Don that, while he may be incommunicado, if you are truly making a point of letting him know you wish to see him and he is still not responding, you need to try a different approach. Just because you can’t get in his building, doesn’t mean you can’t show up around the time you know he gets off and wait for him. Call him and invite him to meet you for dinner and tell him you’re going to be at a certain place at a certain time. If he continues to ignore and avoid, I’d show up at his work when he gets off or somewhere else you know he frequents. I suspect that G is right that he sees S as taking advantage of you and he doesn’t like and I suspect kml is right in that he feels pushed out. I’m still likely in the minority here but I don’t think that your pushing S to help pick out his birthday card is going to curry favor with your son.

[DonH]

I’m still likely in the minority here...

No, I don’t think that you are. Of course there is only a minority of people even left here to comment, the majority having moved on. However you are clearly a very smart lady and very good at figuring and spelling things out in the written word. What you are seeing is what I and suspect others too are seeing. I’m glad marriage vows have not been exchanged but I fear it’s only a matter of time regardless of what happens.

It almost seems like S treats you much like your ex W did. You seem to have been fine with that and even in some ways long for your ex W. Certainly long to know what happened and where she is and what she’s doing. It’s just many of these things just don’t add up. Like S is working on a chore chart. Just how long does this take? She’s not writing a business plan for a multimillion dollar start up. I’ll bet any of us could whip this chart out in less than an hour. Then revise it as needed in a few weeks. There’s a lot of talk, a lot of grandiose ideas, like starting her own business. Really? She can’t hold a regular job but she’s going to be a business owner? Like dawn says that probably sounds harsh but let’s be realistic here.

I also agree with Dawns thoughts on the medical and sleep issues. I’m sure they are real to some degree but have also seen so many people hang their excuse hat on why they just can’t because of this or that illness or disability. You coddling or allowing her to continue to hide behind these is not helping her, her kids or you. The kids have obviously never had structure. Neither has S. It’s just her way of living. Structure could be your middle name Andrew. But the road to success is not you giving up everything and doing it all 100% S’s way.

The bedtime thing... it could be said that you just are too much the gentlemen to talk about sexy time aS G puts it. Yet you did hint very strongly about it with B. It was a pretty regular part of your R with her. If I remember it was not with your ex W and it seems to be that way again with S. With a house full of chaos and kids are S not coming to bed until you are 3 or 4 hours away from getting up, why would a SSR not at all surprise me? Very early on for that. And If S goes to bed at 2 AM when does she wake up? 10 AM? 11? Noon? Well no wonder she’s not getting anything done.

Believe it or not I was thinking of your sitch this last week. I first thought that if I ever want to move someone in, come back and read this first. But that lead to, why and what’s the return. Everyone does things for a return. If there’s no payoff we don’t do it. That’s not negative or doesn’t have to be. But we don’t do things unless we get something from it. Raising more kids, all the critters, all the chaos, all the work. Then add in whether you see it or admit it or not it’s clearly effecting your own children and your R with them. And you are getting what? Do you don’t have to be alone? Someone is better than no one? Perhaps it’s just familiar and what you knew for 25 plus years with your ex? Only you can answer. But from a distance it looks like S hit the jackpot and you are the guy who gets to pay it out.

You should be heading into your coasting years. Then the golden years. Less stress. More travel. Doing what you want and having fun. For sure an R takes a lot of work. But from both people - not just you changing into S’s world, because if it had to be one of your worlds that takes the lead, it certainly would not be hers. Not from my view anyhow. BTW has S even started to contribute to the household finances yet? As Ginger said, it really just looks like S has moved her life into your house and now wants to be the housemaster while you finance it all. If you were in your 40s, it might make sense but do you want to be living this in your 60s? Because that’s Certainly where you look to be headed.

Many of us seem to be seeing and sending the same things. Are we all off base?

[exquisitetobe]

All of the above...

Andrew, an old friend of mine found me after 25 years. ( 4 years ago ).
He was always a bit of a rebel. Well now, he his a full drug addict on the verge of been homeless.
Ever since we have reconnected, he has lost countless jobs because as soon as he gets paid, he desappear until money runs out.
In a conversation we had, he told me he was getting fired because of his problem.
He would buy drugs instead of paying his rent then beg for money, playing victim.

He barked at the wrong tree when he came to me.
I told him he knew very well he would be in this position when he purchased his drugs.
I was NOT, NOT NOW, NOT EVER gonna give him money.

He played the: i tought we were friend. You let me become homeless?

I said " yes. If you want a friend, i will be right by your side, helping you get back on track. As long as you chose this life, i do not want any part of it. By giving you money, i am enabling your choices. I am stretching your chaos by one more month. That is not what you need." " As for your "problem", you do not have a problem, you have an excuse.
A problem, you fix... an excuse, you use".

I share this story because i see this chain of thought in S.
I hope i am wrong but she has excuses for everything.
It seem like she has found a dad for her kids and HER.
Have you wonder why her family dinamic is so weak?

Now, please, reach out to your children. Invest time in your neck of the wood.
Do not let S push S25 away by taking ALL of your time and energy while she complains of ache and pain.
Quit feeling sorry for her.

As a single mother of 4, i became a store manager. I always had my kids need as a priority.
We had tone of activity as a whole family. You know why?
Because i realised that i was in charge of my life and my children life.
I wanted a good quality of life and a family dinamic that would stay close.
We had our struggle and wevaddressed each one as a whole.
Now, they all know they can count on one another in time of needs.

It is all about choices.. goals... hard work

Not lazyness, blame and excuses.

[kml]

Wow. Everybody’s pretty harsh about someone they’ve never met.

Andrew isn’t stupid, of course he’s getting something out of this relationship. And it’s pretty clear he enjoys the animals and enjoys being a manly figure to the boys.

I agree that a chore chart takes 30 minutes tops. S may be resisting because she’s never done things that way, of because she fears the boys will resent it. Or she may simply be so badly ADD that this keeps falling off her radar. But I’ll repeat what I said a few days ago, it needs to get done soon, because the longer the boys live there without the chores the harder it will be to implement. Why not sit down with S tomorrow (or S and the boys) and work out the chores. In fact, right now is a good time when you’ve just put together that trampoline for the boys.

As for the sleep hours - larks and night owls are biologically determined, but efforts can be made to shift them a little. And I’d suggest starting a few weeks before school begins. Melatonin and sunlight exposure upon waking can help reset the jet lag. Proper treatment of ADD can also help.

My friend who is a night owl let’s her teenage son sleep in until noon in the summers too. It’s easy for those who are early risers to be judge but one is not inherently better than the other. But I would have a chat with S about how best to ensure you both get time together.

[bttrfly]

Believe it or not I was thinking of your sitch this last week. I first thought that if I ever want to move someone in, come back and read this first.

thank you Don, for the first really deep laughter I've had in many days.

[Dawn70]

I admitted I was both harsh and blunt and I apologized for it. I stand by what I said because I genuinely care about Andrew and want him to have his best life. I know Andrew is a smart man and he loves S. I am pulling for them, as I said in my post. I said what I said because I do think that Andrew posts things here as a sounding board and to get feedback, even if it is harsh or something he doesn’t necessarily agree with. Again, because he is a smart guy, he can discern what feedback works for him and what is “rubbish”. Most of us here don’t know each other in real life so the majority of our comments are made to and about people we don’t know. We get only a small piece of insight into the situation here because we’re getting one side’s version. I still love you, Andrew, and want you to be happy. If S makes you happy, yay! I, again, apologize for the harshness of my comments.

[AndrewP]

I admitted I was both harsh and blunt and I apologized for it. I stand by what I said because I genuinely care about Andrew and want him to have his best life. I know Andrew is a smart man and he loves S. I am pulling for them, as I said in my post. I said what I said because I do think that Andrew posts things here as a sounding board and to get feedback, even if it is harsh or something he doesn’t necessarily agree with. Again, because he is a smart guy, he can discern what feedback works for him and what is “rubbish”. Most of us here don’t know each other in real life so the majority of our comments are made to and about people we don’t know. We get only a small piece of insight into the situation here because we’re getting one side’s version. I still love you, Andrew, and want you to be happy. If S makes you happy, yay! I, again, apologize for the harshness of my comments.

Big girl hug ((Dawn)). You are exactly right - I do post here as a sounding board. There are so many kind people here who have my best interests at heart that it's a valuable thing. And yes - sometimes the smack-downs do sting - they are supposed to. I used to joke that raising kids is like raising horses. First you've got to get their attention.

No need to apologize for being a true friend Dawn.

Wow. Everybody’s pretty harsh about someone they’ve never met.

Andrew isn’t stupid, of course he’s getting something out of this relationship. And it’s pretty clear he enjoys the animals and enjoys being a manly figure to the boys.

I agree that a chore chart takes 30 minutes tops. S may be resisting because she’s never done things that way, of because she fears the boys will resent it. Or she may simply be so badly ADD that this keeps falling off her radar. But I’ll repeat what I said a few days ago, it needs to get done soon, because the longer the boys live there without the chores the harder it will be to implement. Why not sit down with S tomorrow (or S and the boys) and work out the chores. In fact, right now is a good time when you’ve just put together that trampoline for the boys.

As for the sleep hours - larks and night owls are biologically determined, but efforts can be made to shift them a little. And I’d suggest starting a few weeks before school begins. Melatonin and sunlight exposure upon waking can help reset the jet lag. Proper treatment of ADD can also help.

My friend who is a night owl let’s her teenage son sleep in until noon in the summers too. It’s easy for those who are early risers to be judge but one is not inherently better than the other. But I would have a chat with S about how best to ensure you both get time together.

The harshness and judgement can indeed get a bit much. I think my biggest problem is that I do tend to hear more problems than solutions. I really appreciate your viewpoint.

Melatonin is indeed one of the bottles on the counter and it does get used by S13 and S. S will also take a puff or two of THC to help relax her back pain. Perhaps once every few weeks.

The "family meeting" was had on Saturday afternoon and the chore chart takes effect today. One of the goals is that everyone has to be awake by 10:00 and out of bed by 10:30. S13 is an over-achiever and was up at 6:15 today. The boys take the chore chart seriously. Some of the things that I would do alone are now split. The three "men" will each take charge of a section of the lawn. I'll do the front, S18 the back and S13 the flat section off to the side (he's pretty short to safely operate the mower on a hill). The boys have never cut grass before. Sweeping, vacuuming, scrubbing the bathrooms has all be divided up. Kitchen duties, sweeping etc are all laid out. S18 is planning on upping his game on a number of fronts, working with his therapist to try to get some structure in his life.

We're really on just week 2 1/2 of all being under the same roof so getting the structure of a chore chart and those expectations going now is a fairly reasonable timing in my mind.

S and I had another argument yesterday - I think mostly due to heat and stress. She had wanted me to re-arrange all the furniture in one of the rooms so that "she could see how it looked". I pushed back that I didn't really want to do that multiple times and got push back in return. It escalated and the funny moment was when I told her that I didn't appreciate being called a jerk which she denied and then realized that that word had indeed come out of her mouth a few seconds before. I think that the core issue is S's expectation that everything will be dropped to do whatever has crossed her mind at that moment - part of how her brain works. Meanwhile, I had my entire day planned out with a number of projects half done and couldn't really stop to move heavy furniture only to possibly have to move it back again - something I probably shouldn't be doing a lot of anyway. I think she's still rather grumpy at me.

Believe it or not I was thinking of your sitch this last week. I first thought that if I ever want to move someone in, come back and read this first.

thank you Don, for the first really deep laughter I've had in many days.

Don - one of the things that's been mentioned on these boards a number of times is that people often disappear after their divorce and rarely talk about new relationships. One of the reasons for this I think is because of the expectation of negative feedback that they're "not doing it right".

It's been argued that I probably shouldn't be posting about my new relationships or my post-divorce life - but this is the "surviving" forum and that's what I'm doing. Working on thriving.

If this story - which is one of few - scare people off from starting a new relationship, that is in my mind a good thing. It's not easy - especially when there's lots of baggage involved which is inevitable in a post-divorce world.

[job]

Andrew,

Glad to see the chore chart has been implemented. When people do things in a timely fashion, per the chore chart, be sure to recognize them for their efforts even if they aren't exactly perfect. Sometimes, recognizing people helps them want to achieve even better results. Any way that S and family could at least unpack one or two boxes a day and put the stuff away? This could be done one evening when you are home. Accountability is very important when it comes to duties assigned to each of them.

Also, what do they do until 2 in the morning? Watching TV or playing games? Maybe cut out the sugary sweets or sodas after a certain time to help them unwind. Sounds like they all have gotten into a pattern of being night owls and sleeping part of the day away. Could be their way of dealing w/the chaos of their lives.

On the home front and this is for both you and S...you are both are no longer living the single life and decisions may need to be visited more frequently especially when it comes to having people over for dinner, etc. S should have discussed the "Sunday dinners" w/you instead of announcing that her daughter and family would be there every Sunday. Because of your good nature, S is assuming that whatever she says will go. I was glad that you pushed back on that issue. Trust me, she's not going anywhere because she's found the goose that lays the golden eggs.

As for the medications...when was the last time S and her son had a visit w/the doctor? Maybe the medications need to be changed up a bit. S's health situation could be one of the reasons that she has a couple of failed marriages under her belt. It takes someone who understands ADD and ADHD to live w/them, especially if the spouse is organized and cannot deal with chaos most of the time. Also, it appears that S operates better when she has a very short deadline to get things done and this may be because of her situation. Planning and/or mapping out how to get things done w/o a tight deadline is difficult for her. You are going to have to "show" her that things can be done better if they are done when planning ahead and not at the very last minute and then involving everyone in getting things done under a lot of stress.

How is S18 doing w/cleaning the bunny house? Is he staying on top of that? BTW, you shouldn't be lifting heavy furniture when there are others in the house. She is aware of your health issues and to me, that was selfish of her to ask you to do this. If she wants the furniture moved around she can ask her sons to do this or wait until her daughter and family is there today for dinner.

One thing is for certain, if you don't start pushing back on things, especially when you have other plans, be it to start a new project or complete one or just to sit down and relax, you will begin to fall into their pattern of not getting things done and throwing your hands up and just doing whatever S wants. She needs to learn that there are times when you say no, it is for a darn good reason. Another thing I am concerned about for you is that you will not have any down time for yourself, especially after a long, difficult work day. I don't think S can even imagine what you deal w/on a day-to-day basis. I don't think she understands what it takes to actually be organized, work a job and keep all of the balls up in the air not only at work but at home.

What is happening on the divorce front for her? Has she even begun to get on track for opening up her own business?

Andrew, I do wish you all of the best and I hope that this will all work out...but remember...when she was in an apartment, you could walk away from the chaos and go home to a nice, quiet home whereby you could organize and keep things neat and yes, plan out your day to get projects done or just do a nice, relaxing bubble bath...

[DonH]

Don - one of the things that's been mentioned on these boards a number of times is that people often disappear after their divorce and rarely talk about new relationships. One of the reasons for this I think is because of the expectation of negative feedback that they're "not doing it right".

It's been argued that I probably shouldn't be posting about my new relationships or my post-divorce life - but this is the "surviving" forum and that's what I'm doing. Working on thriving.

If this story - which is one of few - scare people off from starting a new relationship, that is in my mind a good thing. It's not easy - especially when there's lots of baggage involved which is inevitable in a post-divorce world.

You somewhat capture what I was thinking in your last paragraph. It can seem like a good idea to move someone in or get married based on how much fun dates and vacations are. But then real life sets in. It was the fact that all of this can be way harder and often involve many other people. That’s my take home. I say the same to IRL friends. One got married within 18 months of D and somehow thought blending two families with a total of 4 teens and a 10 year old would somehow be easy. They have nearly divorced several times already. Another celebrated his 35th anniversary but OMG it’s hard hard work - just to watch.

So you do provide valuable first hand examples of what trying M or even a live in R really are about. Parts of me thinks I’d try it but then reality and real world examples like these bring me back to reality.

[AndrewP]

Busy Sunday. I believe that I cooked up about 5 lbs of pan seared chicken plus an entire butternut squash, about 3 lbs of potatoes, and a modest amount of broccoli. The pie was store-bought as were the buns . And there was no cheese sauce.

"The kids" (D25 and her H) did all the clean-up after dinner which I was very appreciative of. We then spent 2 days trying to find where they put things away to. A bit more about this below but D25 (and her mother) has difficulty understanding that she's a guest here. I may need to do some mind-shifting about the relationship or go mad. A bit more below.

We had a good visit. S18 had also invited his best friend over and it was funny to me that the biggest attraction was the fact that the entire back yard has WiFi - he was bragging about that quite a bit. There was bouncing around on the trampoline, climbing all over the garage roof (an approved activity), wandering around the neighbourhood. His friend I think was pleased by where S18 has ended up. I did have a bit of a smile because they had never had a "formal" meal with wine (de-alcohol), food in serving dishes etc. They thought it quite posh and asked me a bunch of questions about how to make this or that and appreciated when I explained wine varietals which is something they had no knowledge about at all. The friend is trans and identifying as male and seemed pleased that I was familar with the concept and had trans people in my social circle.

S18 had asked previously if we could pick up his friend and I hadn't realized it was for a visit but hey - the kids can have friends over. This friend would often just show up at their apartment when they lived 3 doors apart and hang out with whoever was there.

S's D25 I think is perhaps part of the challenge here with not understanding boundaries. S let me know mid-afternoon that her D25 was intending on picking up my S25 and bringing him along. I think she saw the terror in my eyes. S25 would resent being dragged by a relative stranger to be trapped here with all sorts of people he doesn't know well. Not that he's taking anyone's messages at present. 20S has tried to reach out to him. No answer either. I was chatting with my D28 and she's going to try to get in touch with him too. With no buzzer on his apartment, no access to his door there is no reasonable way to drop in on him. I am getting progressively more worried but know from my history with him, to give him all the space he wants. He knows I'm here. S isn't concerned at all as she pretty much never hears from her eldest son and lumps this all in to the same thing. I have figured out though that there was a lot of conflict between them though and that S I think is pretty happy that he's not around.

It was D25's idea to come "every" week for dinner as well. Just assumed. I'm going to have to work on boundaries with this one. She's a nice kid and I quite like her. She thought it funny when I commented that she and her husband and baby were guests here. They are living in his parent's basement right now and it's not very comfortable and they are looking for their own place. Once they get that I think things will settle down a bit. For now she's not been able to spend time with her mother for quite a long time having lived in Ottawa for a few years and hates her current environment.

I did point out that S and I were hoping to have a break being "peopled out" but I don't think D25 got it. I talked a bit to her H and hopefully the message that they are more than welcome but that we also need some space will get through. I expect that it will have to be reinforced by us just not being here and having other plans which will be a good thing on it's own.

S was concerned (one of the things we argued about) that I would be in a snit and not a good host on Sunday. I think she knows she was proven wrong. I talked to her later and told her that for a lot of things, especially social, that I would dread them, grumble and complain but at the time I would get in the "groove" and have a fine time. Which is what happened. S agrees that we need some "us" time which is where we were before her daughter pushed her way in. I'm thinking of taking a week or two off in August and we're talking about going away for a day or so now that some of the inns in the area are open again.

------

I had my cardiologist appointment yesterday. Echo cardiogram followed by a stress test. I now have some "man-scaping" going on with parts of my chest where the electrodes were attached.

Both technicians stopped part way through their work to ask if I'd ever had a heart attack so they were obviously seeing something. My answer was that I had been told I had one in my 40s but never knew until my doctor pointed to some visible damage. I tend to believe that technicians usually know a heck of a lot more about diagnosis than it might be thought and I expect that they were seeing something abnormal.

The cardiologist himself said that he wasn't overly concerned but did sign me up for another angiogram "just to have a look" this fall sometime. I think I'm being moved fairly high up the list. He did say that the pain that I had back in January that started this was probably a mild heart attack. He did say that there was nothing obviously wrong in the tests done.

I called S when I got out and gave her the info that "nothing in particular found", "angiogram in the fall" and she was pleased that there was nothing to worry about. I think that perhaps she should be a bit worried but don't want to push and cause her to panic.

I also chatted with my D28 and passed on the info - I think she understands the gravity even if there is no urgency. Messages were left for S25.

----------

I did spend the afternoon at the plant. It was nice to be in there. The guys at the plant were happy to see me and I think they thought it odd that I wore my mask all the time. I'm going to be going in now probably every Thursday. Going to be nice to gird up with my bow tie again even though nobody but me would care. I'll need to get up around 5:30 or so to be in to the plant a bit after 7:00 and still have a nice breakfast. S will certainly find it odd to not have me underfoot and easily available.

That worked out for us today as her van had a flat tire that she noticed this morning. Of all the times and places that it could have happened, this was perhaps the best. I called CAA (auto-club) and about 45 minutes a guy came by, plugged the hole and went on his way. She did have a slow leak in that tire and I suspect that there was a nail in it that had popped out causing a faster leak. Normally I would have just dealt with it but it turns out that the spare tire requires an engineering degree and acrobatics to get to and her tire wrench which had been loaned to a neighbour is probably in the piles of boxes. And kml - to answer your question - 50 is probably a low number for the amount of boxes. So much stuff being kept "for the next kid in line" and "this was given to me for the kids".

In other "news" I was in the store where B had worked and decided to just obliquely ask about her. The story is that her "ex" had some health issues and that B went back "up north" to look after him but said she'd be back soon - and never returned. There's probably a lot of truth in this and perhaps a bit of white-washing too. The person I was talking to agreed that there seemed to be a lot of drama going on. It feels good in some ways to know that she's picked her path at least for now. In many ways it was the best of the bad choices open to her. I doubt that they are fully "a couple" but expect that the divorce won't happen and that they'll just cohabitate indefinitely while he gets taken care of by his wife appliance and still fools around.

So - the plan is to do my best to get moderate exercise and not be stupid. We'll see what the fall brings. S is I think learning better my moods and such and what to expect and we are both committed to making this work knowing that it will continue to not be easy.

[Dawn70]

Take care of yourself, Andrew. And be honest with S. Don't sugarcoat things because she needs to know what is happening so she can help you and she can be prepared.

I smiled when I read the part about S thinking you would be "in a snit" at the guests coming over and you explained that you dread things, but then enjoy them. Sparky and I had the SAME conversation Friday. Sparky is from a very small and distant family. I have a larger family and we are very close-knit (as you have no doubt gathered from my FB posts). Sparky works M-F from 6:00 am until 2:30 and we live about an hour from his work, so he leaves the house about 4:45 every day. He has a VERY physical job in a building that is not climate controlled so he is worn out when he comes home. On Friday, we were slated to go to a family dinner in honor of my nephew. I knew Sparky would not be overly excited about going after working all week in the heat, but we chose to do it Friday rather than the weekend, because that was most convenient for my nephew, the guest of honor. Sparky was grumpy when he got home and he even groused at me a bit and I told him I would understand, as would my family, if he chose to stay home. He said no, he wanted to go, but he was going to b!tch the whole way there (he didn't, by the way). On the way home, he apologized for being grumpy with me before and explained that sometimes he dreads things just because all of the other stuff going on but then he always has a great time and is very glad that he went. So, after that long, drawn out explanation, your comments made me smile because Sparky is the same way. Friday was not the first time he'd done it or even the first time we'd had the conversation.

[kml]

And kml - to answer your question - 50 is probably a low number for the amount of boxes. So much stuff being kept "for the next kid in line" and "this was given to me for the kids".

Ok here's the solution. I see I can buy a 10x8x6' tall galvanized metal shed from Home Depot for just $369. (Your prices may vary in Canada). By my calculations it could easily hold 64 2'x2'x1" boxes with a 2 foot wide center aisle. (or stack the boxes higher for a wider aisle). This is a small price to pay for marital harmony. Buy the shed, have the boys stack her boxes in there, and let her go through them one at a time in the house if she so desires.

My suspicion is that most of that stuff has been in boxes for years and will be for years in the future. As someone who has endured poverty she has no assurance that she will be able to buy those things again and thus is unwilling to part with most of it as it "might come in useful" in the future. It's a poverty mindset that you might have trouble shaking her out of. I would just make it clear that her boxes of stuff have to fit in the storage unit and if she acquires more stuff she has to get rid of enough to make room for it in the shed.

You still have your garage, she doesn't feel like you're forcing her to throw out her "stuff" (although be very careful of hoarding tendencies here, don't let it creep up or into the house), and the house is cleared of all the boxes in one weekend.

It seems like a small price to pay for marital harmony. And would lessen the strain on your heart. (Keep wearing your mask btw, heart disease is the number one risk factor for Covid.)
`

[Ginger1]

Please do a wellness check on your S. This is very worrisome .

[kml]

Ditto what G said.

[AndrewP]

On of S25's friends just was by and told me that he's doing well and participating in the weekly poker game again.

[kml]

Phew!

[AndrewP]

Winding down the week. Some rail cars that I've been stressing about have been located and 2 of them placed on our siding.

I spent yesterday on site. I was the only person who was wearing a mask which was a bit disappointing. It is a pretty isolated place with not many people on it and the stationary engineers who keep the plant running are set up to sit fairly far apart. We had to do an inventory count yesterday which went through rather well. The guy who did the actual work while I followed around with the clipboard has been there for about 40 years ago and knew what he was doing so I ignored the official forms and had him do things his way. I need to do the transcribing this morning.

I had interesting talks with a few of the people there. I think I'm about the 3rd or 4th person being tried out in the role I have over the past 10 years or so. None of them lasted all that long, mostly because the guy who runs the place is a micro-manager who can't let go of the details or process. For me, I respect his knowledge and usually his input. The number of times that he's changed what I've planned continues to go down over the couple of months I've been doing this. Even though this isn't at all where my career was previously headed it seems to be a good choice. I'm learning a lot and am working with some great people. I'm finding over time too that I'm getting more and more cooperation from various partners both inside and outside the company, probably more than we had before when the micro-manager was doing it all. It's helped. There's been more than once I've needed a customer or supplier to figuratively pull a rabbit out of a hat and they've stepped up and I've tried to do the same for them.

When I've had trouble, I'm finding that the micro-manager (who is also the company president) has no issues with putting his name on something to push it through. It's nice to know that he's got my back which really given my work history over my own almost 40 years working, is probably the one thing that really matters.

The chemical industry is a small small world that is run by personal relationships and reputation and I've really enjoyed my 17 years in it.

----

I had dinner with my best friend last night out on a patio. A few beer, big mound of wings, a server wearing a mask and following appropriate safety protocols. He's doing fairly well. His daughter has been dropping off both of his grand-kids with him more and more taking advantage of his good nature but I think he is pretty happy to have that time with them.

I've know this friend for about 25 years and we've worked together off and on. For years we would make a point of getting together at least once a month for dinner. I've not seen him since I think February. He and his wife have been careful and limiting their social circle. He's in decent health for a guy our age but his wife has a fair number of issues that have been getting worse in recent years.

It was good to see him. He reinforced the whole "be careful about what S is legally entitled to" and "get a pre-nup" message.

-----

S18 wanted to get a haircut and I was surprised when he agreed to try my barber. He has anxiety issues but my barber is by appointment only and has limited waiting space. He seemed pleased with the results when I got home. No smooches from S "of course" because I'd had 3 pints of beer. S18 had also invited a couple of friends over so the living room was taken over, S was a bit stressed by the crowd and activity and everyone was up very very late. The friends needed to be driven back home and S and S18 stayed up. S18 actually was still up when I got up at 6:00 to start my day.

This morning a quick vacuum was necessary to tidy up some moderate spillage in the living room - I think a good time was had by all. The kitchen was also a mess which wasn't a surprise either. I'll perhaps direct S18 to do some of the tidy up there when he's done work this afternoon.

---------

The cat situation is I think slowly resolving itself. I believe "the girls" are currently urinating here and there in the early mornings when they are being pestered by the new (neutered) male cat. It's probably an anger thing. There were actual fisticuffs the other night and when I broke it up, I got two large scratches on my legs that I didn't notice for a while. Much blood as it turned out. I think it's probably another 2 or 3 weeks before all that settles down. The grumpiest cat Liz actually made nice with the dog this morning but perhaps didn't want to interrupt the fact that they were both being vigorously petted at the time.

-------

I think S13 is off to his Dad's for a few days today. There's a fish and chip shop next to his Dad's apartment that offers a gluten free batter that we may pop in to.

Still no word from S25 - I'll pick up a birthday card and mail it off with both S and I signing it. I'm hoping for a quiet weekend of puttering. I'm not so worried now about S25. Personally I suspect that he's keeping his distance from the chaos and perhaps not just yet wanting to see how his former home has changed. At this point I'm not planning on a birthday celebration for him. His mother's never hosted one for him so perhaps this is a chance for her to step up. I'll of course never know.

Nice to be boring here.

[bttrfly]

I admitted I was both harsh and blunt and I apologized for it. I stand by what I said because I genuinely care about Andrew and want him to have his best life. I know Andrew is a smart man and he loves S. I am pulling for them, as I said in my post. I said what I said because I do think that Andrew posts things here as a sounding board and to get feedback, even if it is harsh or something he doesn’t necessarily agree with. Again, because he is a smart guy, he can discern what feedback works for him and what is “rubbish”. Most of us here don’t know each other in real life so the majority of our comments are made to and about people we don’t know. We get only a small piece of insight into the situation here because we’re getting one side’s version. I still love you, Andrew, and want you to be happy. If S makes you happy, yay! I, again, apologize for the harshness of my comments.

Big girl hug ((Dawn)). You are exactly right - I do post here as a sounding board. There are so many kind people here who have my best interests at heart that it's a valuable thing. And yes - sometimes the smack-downs do sting - they are supposed to. I used to joke that raising kids is like raising horses. First you've got to get their attention.

No need to apologize for being a true friend Dawn.

Wow. Everybody’s pretty harsh about someone they’ve never met.

Andrew isn’t stupid, of course he’s getting something out of this relationship. And it’s pretty clear he enjoys the animals and enjoys being a manly figure to the boys.

I agree that a chore chart takes 30 minutes tops. S may be resisting because she’s never done things that way, of because she fears the boys will resent it. Or she may simply be so badly ADD that this keeps falling off her radar. But I’ll repeat what I said a few days ago, it needs to get done soon, because the longer the boys live there without the chores the harder it will be to implement. Why not sit down with S tomorrow (or S and the boys) and work out the chores. In fact, right now is a good time when you’ve just put together that trampoline for the boys.

As for the sleep hours - larks and night owls are biologically determined, but efforts can be made to shift them a little. And I’d suggest starting a few weeks before school begins. Melatonin and sunlight exposure upon waking can help reset the jet lag. Proper treatment of ADD can also help.

My friend who is a night owl let’s her teenage son sleep in until noon in the summers too. It’s easy for those who are early risers to be judge but one is not inherently better than the other. But I would have a chat with S about how best to ensure you both get time together.

The harshness and judgement can indeed get a bit much. I think my biggest problem is that I do tend to hear more problems than solutions. I really appreciate your viewpoint.

Melatonin is indeed one of the bottles on the counter and it does get used by S13 and S. S will also take a puff or two of THC to help relax her back pain. Perhaps once every few weeks.

The "family meeting" was had on Saturday afternoon and the chore chart takes effect today. One of the goals is that everyone has to be awake by 10:00 and out of bed by 10:30. S13 is an over-achiever and was up at 6:15 today. The boys take the chore chart seriously. Some of the things that I would do alone are now split. The three "men" will each take charge of a section of the lawn. I'll do the front, S18 the back and S13 the flat section off to the side (he's pretty short to safely operate the mower on a hill). The boys have never cut grass before. Sweeping, vacuuming, scrubbing the bathrooms has all be divided up. Kitchen duties, sweeping etc are all laid out. S18 is planning on upping his game on a number of fronts, working with his therapist to try to get some structure in his life.

We're really on just week 2 1/2 of all being under the same roof so getting the structure of a chore chart and those expectations going now is a fairly reasonable timing in my mind.

S and I had another argument yesterday - I think mostly due to heat and stress. She had wanted me to re-arrange all the furniture in one of the rooms so that "she could see how it looked". I pushed back that I didn't really want to do that multiple times and got push back in return. It escalated and the funny moment was when I told her that I didn't appreciate being called a jerk which she denied and then realized that that word had indeed come out of her mouth a few seconds before. I think that the core issue is S's expectation that everything will be dropped to do whatever has crossed her mind at that moment - part of how her brain works. Meanwhile, I had my entire day planned out with a number of projects half done and couldn't really stop to move heavy furniture only to possibly have to move it back again - something I probably shouldn't be doing a lot of anyway. I think she's still rather grumpy at me.

Believe it or not I was thinking of your sitch this last week. I first thought that if I ever want to move someone in, come back and read this first.

thank you Don, for the first really deep laughter I've had in many days.

Don - one of the things that's been mentioned on these boards a number of times is that people often disappear after their divorce and rarely talk about new relationships. One of the reasons for this I think is because of the expectation of negative feedback that they're "not doing it right".

It's been argued that I probably shouldn't be posting about my new relationships or my post-divorce life - but this is the "surviving" forum and that's what I'm doing. Working on thriving.

If this story - which is one of few - scare people off from starting a new relationship, that is in my mind a good thing. It's not easy - especially when there's lots of baggage involved which is inevitable in a post-divorce world.

Your sitch doesn't scare me off Andrew because I'll be perfectly honest, I wouldn't have allowed a relationship to develop to the point you are at with S. There are way too many deal breakers in your sitch for me. This is not the kind of thing I am personally looking for in my mid 50s from a partner - lots of kids, lots of stuff, lots of pets, lots of what sounds to me like utter chaos - my definition, not yours or anyone else's. I say this with full belief that my next relationship would most likely be something that's not for you either. That's the way life is - what's good for one person is certainly not good for all people.

That said, I have a very quirky sense of humor and Don's post tickled that.

[kml]

Re: moving furniture. I highly recommend getting these sliders that you put under the feet of sofas and other heavy furniture. Makes it really easy to slide them around to different spots. And please enlist some help, don’t be doing all that yourself.

Also - re: S: it’s a crazy busy time, are you setting aside some time for just the two of you? And recognize that she might try to preemptively push you away, as she probably has a pretty big fear of this relationship failing given her past history. Try a little tenderness.

[AndrewP]

Try a little tenderness.

She may be weary

There are some furniture movers under S13's bed (S's old one) that she wants pulled out to use.

I think that one big challenge - and it's just the way that her brain works - is that when she wants to do something, she wants to do it "now" and doesn't consider that others may have other plans or be busy with something else. I'm like that sometimes but usually I have everything more or less planned out. My new job is also training me to be more flexible. My boss just let me know that I had scheduled 2 trailers for the same loading spot on Tuesday morning - something I need to fix. And that of course cascades through to other deliveries yadda yadda yadda.

I had Tiger Tail ice cream for probably the first time yesterday. Tasty but not really my thing. I told S that a friend of mine keeps going on about it so I had to try it (waves to kml). I cut out of work early and we took S13 to his Dad's place yesterday. It's located right next to a really good fish and chip shop that I had checked and they do a gluten free batter which S pronounced delicious. We ate inside for the first time - lots of distance between customers, staff wearing masks.

S I think was a bit surprised that I suggested dinner out and we had a good time. She got her self "fancied up" and I felt bad about being just in t-shirt and shorts but it was fine. Went for a walk after dinner, had the aforementioned ice cream, walked along the boardwalk. It was good.

S has a lot going on right now. Her D19 has broken up with her long-term boyfriend that she was living with. They were camping out with S's STBX and it's just weird and I don't try to understand. Anyhoo - he never paid rent and I certainly didn't like him and non of the others in S's family liked him although they accepted him. He's a sort of person that I think of as a "taker". He was working part time at a coffee shop, lost that due to Covid and then never bothered looking for anything else. Personaly I'm glad that they've split and nobody is surprised. When S18 heard, his reaction was "finally". So - she'll be needing some additional emotional and practical support. Ice cream has been offered. And she'll need to borrow a car from time to time.

Her D25 has secured an apartment about an hour away from here. So that might take some pressure off of her wanting to be here "every" Sunday. We could go there for example. I'm sure she still doesn't "get it" that a random comment that I made about wanting to feed more people when I made a large meal for Easter doesn't translate into an invitation every week. I think that the core challenge - and S doesn't understand my point of view either - is that she's not part of "My" family and I'm not part of her's. We're grown people who happen to have a family member in common. Although I still have mental work to do to think of S as "family". She's very much a "take charge" (which I like) and "take over" gal (which I don't).

Well - hoping for a fairly quiet weekend. Heading off for the groceries shortly.

I just got off the phone with a very nice older lady who happened to be a Jehovah's witness who called in to check to see how we were doing. She was very happy to hear that we are doing well and staying safe and shared with me this lovely verse.

“Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus” (Philippians 4:6-7).

I was very appreciative and thanked her quite sincerely for taking the time to call. She agreed with my comment that sometimes just letting go of anxiety was useful. I know that many don't have time for them but I do know that part of their faith is to proselytize and they generally are quite nice about it and seem to truly care about others. It was a nice thing to happen to me today - and at the start of my day too. The rest should be pretty good as well. I think I made this lady's day better too by being truly happy to hear from her.

[kml]

I imagine you’d have to be a big licorice fan like me to dig that ice cream.

That’s great that D19 and boyfriend broke up (let’s hope it sticks!). Does that mean though that you’ll be taking her in too? Or will she continue living with mom’s ex?

Gluten free fish and chips - yum. I had some in Portland. But I miss the malt vinegar, that’s the best part, but a no- no because it’s made from barley. It’s good that you got out, I’m sure SHE appreciated it, you guys going out.

Sigh - it’s so hard living with someone when you’re a fully formed adult who has been living on your own for a while, and both have baggage. I like doing things a certain way and so does CMM.

[Dawn70]

I have made no secret that I can be a bit of a control freak in life and I’m very scheduled and routine. It’s just how I roll. So, I actually get S’ thing about when she wants to do something, she wants it NOW without regard to other’s plans or schedules. I’ve really had to learn to temper that in relationships and learn the other person’s ways then tailor mine to theirs. It is a lot of work but worth the compromise. Sparky is extremely fly by the seat of his pants. I have learned that if I want/need his help with something, I mention it ahead of time, if it is something that has an actual timeline. If not, I just ask and then say something along the lines “any time today would be fine” so he knows I want it today but specific time is not a factor. It works really well for us and we seem to communicate well about it. The thing is, like kml said, y’all are adults who have your own ways of doing things and you just have to figure out how to compromise to suit both of your needs the best. This is why relationships are such hard work.

I wondered the same thing kml did....will you be adding d19 to your household?

[AndrewP]

Thanks kml and Dawn. No - D19 will be staying put for now but her horizons have now suddenly opened up.

Her staying with her former step-dad was originally supposed to be just her and her dog. BF would come for a visit. Then stay over. Then never left. Although I have no way of knowing I am quite sure that he was never invited in by step-dad nor actually asked. It was just une fait acompli.

He's the sort of person I think of as a "barnacle". Clings on to a likely host. Does the minimal amount to stay there but focuses on their own interests. I'm sensitive to this both because I am a likely host and have been warned so much about people taking advantage of me that it's made me excessively paranoid and also because I encountered one many years ago. A friend of S25 did this to him / us a number of years ago. Pleaded problems at home, moved in here and then showed no urge to leave. I think I've talked about him before. Years later he took advantage of 20S kindness as a live-in boyfriend for a couple of years, gave her an STD and cheated on her. One similar characteristic that I found between the two boys is a "coldness" that they seem to have towards the rest of the world. Like there's nothing on the other side of those eyes if you're not a host.

D19 was a great host. Hard working (reluctantly), ambitious, very very pretty, vulnerable, controllable. We all expect him to circle around and try again. Hopefully D19 is strong enough to resist. She's talked this through and planned this split out for quite a while so I hope so. She will need some practical (rides and such - BF had the car), and emotional support to find her own path. I personally believe that being out from BF's shadow that she will flower once she finds her boots.

-------

S and I had a good conversation yesterday about chores and who does what. She'd been reluctant to help out with certain things, especially my Saturday morning list because I seemed very attached to them. I told her that the only thing I'm really attached to is buying my roses myself. That I would be very happy if we could figure out how to do groceries together. That day, she asked if I minded her hanging out my laundry, if I was OK with pancakes for dinner (out of a box but had fresh berries), and washed the dishes (I dried later). She hung out my laundry differently than I did and in some ways did a much better job. I made sure to tell her that.

The boys have done pretty good on the chore chart. It's a structure they are familiar with that works for them. It's certainly going to need some tweaking though. The house is still in chaos and don't ask about the condition of the teenager's rooms. But every day there is incremental progress and some days there are significant improvements in the de-cluttering and unpacking.

I feel confident that we will end up on a good path here. There's lots of issues, not the least that both the boys (and S) have some issues that have them struggle with some day to day things that we'll always have.

---------

There's been a bit of talk here lately about ex-partners and how it can affect us when they re-partner. I think for those of us where that happened a while ago that the shock has worn off. In my own case, there was some relief when it was more or less public on why my ex had left.

I think what in some ways what it comes down to is that like many of them, we expect them as well to be "where we left them". My ex lives on a very busy street that I drive down (and have driven down) several times a week. I will often look to see if she or OM's vehicles are there. There's a bit of a feeling of comfort as odd as that may sound to know where she is and roughly what she's doing and that it's no threat to me. Maybe that's what it is. Not controlling, but threat avoidance?

Ah well - enough philosophy for now. Tea is almost done. I need to update my budget and then get the grass cut before it rains. S said she's going to cook up a steak - maybe on the BBQ if the weather permits and mashed potatoes. A nice quiet supper for three (probably).

[AndrewP]

Crazy morning at work. Just when you think you've got it all sorted out, reality happens.

One load that I brought people in early for to unload was late. The load I shifted the other one for was early. So 2 drivers sitting in the yard drinking coffee. It was a difficult choice to figure out which company to annoy by making them wait. So very tough to manage from my desk in my little village when it would be so much easier to just walk out to the yard and get yelled at.

So much stress with this role. It's fun, challenging and I'm learning a lot. It's also quite a lot more dynamic than you might imagine. I'm finding it overlapping into personal life though where some days it seems that I'm trying to schedule family and errands in the same way I do the plant. I've yet to ask the boys if they have the right paperwork before they go outside though Does anyone know what the WHMIS instructions are for a nerf gun?

I have found that a good dose of humility and acknowledging to people that I am new to this goes a long way. I'm very fortunate in my co-workers and business partners.

I do think that I'm doing reasonably well as the guy I report to keeps dumping things on me to analyze, follow up on, and just take care of. Things that he would normally be doing himself. He does second-guess me a lot and is right more than enough times that I don't have a real issue with it other than the fact that it's distracting and changing plans that are set in place isn't always easy. Or advisable or even possible.

-------------------------------

S and D19 are off to the city for a photo shoot. Normally her boyfriend would drive and help her navigate around but today it's a mom/daughter thing. Her dog is hanging out here for the day.

It turns out that there is some friction with her step-dad where he yelled at her about the dog - which from what I gather is both unusual and not. He has a history of grumbling and complaining but is usually passive agressive instead of having an outburst. I have no expectation that she'll have to move out any time soon and from what I gather this is the normal state of living there. Outbursts are rare and there is always an undercurrent of noisy grumbling and complaining. One of the reasons that S left.

D19 is going to crash here again tonight and she and her Mom are going to another city for a medical appointment for D19's flare-up in gluten sensitivity.

-----

As time goes on, I learn more about S's past and attitudes and undoubtedly she about mine. The whole "family vs guest" thing continues to play out. My attitude is that when her kids that don't live here come by they're guests. They get fed, entertained. S and her kids look at this as "family home" - where when they come by they get fed and entertained. Crossing that line for me to think of her kids as family is a step that I'm still not able to take. I would presume that they think of me as another add-on to their family unit. Not fully in the club but there as part of the whole picture. The physical location of home has been so fluid that they just adapt.

I was more comfortable with the concept that B and I had. There was my family, her family and "us". Like a Venn diagram if you will. With S and her crew it's more like a pot of gumbo with things floating around. I've never had a true gumbo but expect that depending on the cook that it can be quite delicious.

S18 here has some behavioral issues with have some sort of three letter acronym. Essentially, if he's off his meds, he will become hyperactive and act out quite a lot. A lot of the time it involves him telling his mother that she's dumb, no good and other forms of verbal abuse. Something that once he starts that he can't let go of or stop. There is a minor component of physical as well where he will poke at her with toy light-sabers, shoot off nerf guns in her vicinity etc repetitively as well. Now that he's got a back yard he will often go out there to release tension. I also installed a chin-up bar in a doorway that helps with his mania for doing gymnastics.

Over-all, he's a good kid. And he doesn't like it when he gets this way which is one of the reasons he is seeing a therapist (funding about to run out - S is intending on working something out with his Dad). S has some long-suffering patience and deals out appropriate punishments which S18 accepts. He lost all screens the other night because he wouldn't stop ragging at her. He handed them over without complaint or comment.

I have looked up the meds that the kids are on - they seem very well informed about why they are taking them - not sharing here though as they involve some rather serious chemistry that I would rather the search engines not pick up on.

A lot of what is going on with S18 reminded me of the bits I'd heard about S's oldest son who lives in Australia. So I asked her more details - in part to better understand what is going on with S18 and on how she handled it.

The short(ish) version is that around when S married her last husband in 2012 he was 16. Her oldest daughter had chosen to live on her own at 18 rather than move in. Her then S16 had a similar pattern of abusive behaviour and, while not booted out, chose to live with his sister rather than his mother and new husband. As an aside, S18 also at 15 or 16 lived with this same sister for a summer. And yes D26 is both a rescuer of her mother and is tired of rescuing / fixing for her mother - which perhaps explains some of her "taking over" attitudes.

Anyhoo - so this oldest son eventually finished high school - his mother pretty much never saw him and then he moved to Australia and has settled down with a nice girl. He pretty much never calls his mother, she hardly ever calls him (like only a couple of times a year) or even sends him a message. They certainly are on speaking terms and have the familial love thing going on. The kids that knew him that I also know describe him as energetic and annoying. But that relationship is in no way similar to what I have with my own son so the "not hearing from them for months" thing is a bit more concerning to me than it is to her in her very different situation.

I can't help but feel sad for S though. Even though my son and daughter and I have had our differences and we're not as close as some families, there is an underlying core strength there, respect and admiration that she just doesn't seem to have. Being told continuously for now essentially the last decade by her own flesh and blood that she's not worthy has got to be so very wearing. She is certainly - and in some ways disappointingly - disappointed that S18 didn't move in with his buddy as originally planned. She was I imagine looking forward to a life without that abuse.

[Ginger1]

And what do you believe the reason is as to why her kids don’t respect her or have admiration for her?

Why did she allow her 16 year old to live with his 18 year old sister?

[LH19]

I can't help but feel sad for S though. Even though my son and daughter and I have had our differences and we're not as close as some families, there is an underlying core strength there, respect and admiration that she just doesn't seem to have.

It doesn't sound like respect and admiration when your son doesn't return your call for 2 months. Canadians in glass houses shouldn't throw stones lol.

[AndrewP]

Been a busy week. It was good to go into the plant on Thursday. We had some issues that I was able to deal with by being on the spot that would have been tough to do remotely. They involved a broom and a tape measure. My job is ever so exciting. Even though nobody is exactly clear on quite what it is.

-----

Quiet time on the home front too. Our local school board is planning on re-opening as usual in September. S is planning on visiting with some of the other Moms in the village to see what alternatives are thought of. I expect that a lot of kids won't be attending. I don't know what the plan is for S13. S18 still has to finish high school and sign up for some programs to help him. He wants to finish but his anxiety issues are pretty bad and are keeping him from being successful. S says that he wants to go off to higher education. Personally I've been touting the blue collar life as being less stressful. I know for a fact that most companies continue to have difficulty in getting young people who want to work in warehouses or in production facilities as a long term career option. Decent pay, fairly good work.

S and I had our monthly budget meeting yesterday afternoon and it went well. She asked questions on how I've been managing the money and they seem I think to make sense to her. This month she'll probably get more engaged in the day to day paying of bills and watching the balances.

Expenses are of course way up, especially groceries. We talked about that and I suggested that we work harder on reducing the number of trips to the grocery store - something I know from first hand experience that causes an over-spend. Last week between the two of us, there were 4 trips. We'd like to go and do the shopping together but we can't seem to make that work with my work schedule and her sleep schedule.

Money has been tight at least from a "family budget" point of view. Certainly there have been some extraordinary expenses in the last few months.

Starting this month, S is going to contribute more to the day to day finances. We've held off until now so that she could sort out the expenses that she's wrapping up from her own independent life. She's tossed money into the pot for unusual expenses like the trampoline

We have some big expenses coming up in August. Her divorce filing, I'm taking a week off and we want a couple of nights away, taking her cats in for shots and micro-chips.

Part of our budget is what I call "pocket money" and she calls "walking around money". I think that this has been a bit of a mental shift for her. It's weird she has said to be able to just pull money out of her purse and pay for something trivial without having to think about it. Putting gas in the van when she needs to, having a snack or cup of tea. It's just not in her experience.

Busy weekend again but should be good. S's D25 is moving and S and S13 are heading up to mind GS1. S18 will learn how to use the lawn mower this afternoon and will cut the back yard. I've got some cleaning and puttering to do. A window-sill has a big amount of rot in it so I need to cut that out and make a dutchman to fill the spot.

Still no word from S25 and 20S hasn't heard from him either. Since I know that he's ok I'm not too worried any more.
It may be that he's enjoying being on his own again. It may be that he's spending time with his mother. None of my business. I'm sure I'll hear from him. He knows where I live.

D28 is doing reasonably well. Her H was out to sea for a bit recently and they are exploring their area a bit - checking out places that are not crowded.

[kml]

Some thoughts on the groceries:

Teen boys eat a lot. Gluten-free specialty items are expensive. Combine the two and it can definitely blow up a good budget.

Solutions?
1) Naturally gluten-free foods - beans and rice are gluten free and cheap. Fruits and vegetables are gluten free and plentiful this time of year. Homemade snacks like GF brownies or cookies can be less expensive than store bought.

2) Buy in bulk. Here we have a chain of warehouse stores called Costco which is great for shopping for family-sized quantities.

3) Plan in advance (I know you’ll be good at this). If I had it to do over, when I cooked for a family I would have just had a set 2 or 3 week menu calendar of our favorite things, and not have had to constantly think of what to make.

4) Cook in bulk. Having some frozen leftovers that can be easily heated up in short notice can help avoid emergency meal expenses like takeout.

[Dawn70]

When all the girls still lived at home, we planned meals a week at a time. My XH and the girls were all picky eaters (XH more so than the girls) so we tended to eat the same meals a lot and I got bored with that crap because I'm a much better eater. We would sit down at some point on the weekend, WITH THE GIRLS, and we would plan the menu for the next week that would be written on a little dry erase board and stuck on the fridge so there was none of that "what's for supper" business when they came home from school. It also helped with organizing the shopping better and helping me remember to get stuff out of the freezer or whatever, since I had to walk by the fridge on my way out of the house. The rule was that no one HAD to help make out the weekly menu, but if you didn't help, then you didn't get to fuss about what we had for supper on any given night. Because the girls were teens and had their own jobs and money, we also made a rule that you were not obligated to eat our supper on any given night, but if you chose not to, then it was on you to provide for yourself whether that meant buying your own fast food meal or fixing yourself something (and cleaning up after yourself) at home. I'm not saying it is the perfect solution but it absolutely worked for us. In fact, it morphed into one night a week, the girls actually took total control of planning, preparing and cleaning up (usually Friday night, because for some reason, none of them usually worked on Friday nights) and they had to make sure that whatever groceries they needed were on the list. If they forgot stuff, it was on them to figure out how to get it or what to substitute. They really enjoyed that. We did that for several years, until all of the girls were out of the house. I noticed recently that 2 of them do it in their own homes now and they say it saves them time.

Also, freezer meals that kml mentioned above. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love the Pioneer Woman and she has several shows dedicated specifically to make ahead freezer meals. Google her and I bet you can find them. She has 4 kids so she does fairly budget friendly stuff most of the time. Of course, she's from Oklahoma so I may be partial to her because she's my neighbor to the west, but she really does have some good stuff.

[AndrewP]

Surprisingly for teenage boys, they are both waay under-weight and incredibly picky eaters. S13 has some gluten sensitivity that complicates it. Tonight for dinner S13 had a small piece of ham, a bit of rice and counted out the number of peas that he had to eat before his mother would let him leave the table. The only other thing he had today was a largish piece of back bacon (Canadian Bacon) that I made him for breakfast. We couldn't talk him into eating lunch.

S18 will often pick up fast food paid for out of his own money or graze the convenience foods (mostly frozen pizza) in the freezer. But there will be days that go by where he doesn't eat anything beyond a couple of bowls of cereal.

I might imagine that their hyperactivity is perhaps a factor in the poor appetite but honestly don't know enough to judge. S worries about it quite a bit and has worked with the boys therapist on it.

Meal planning is a great idea and works really well for me which is why S likes me doing Sunday supper. For S - no. Her brain doesn't work that way. She is great with whipping something healthy, nutritious and tasty in short order - not that the boys will chow down on it. Unlike me, S is also a big believer in left-overs and has done some pretty nice things with them.

The key thing with multiple shops, especially without a list is that you come back with things you already have or don't particularly need. The pantry is stuffed full of food. S did point out that she was concerned in case we have to self-isolate for a couple of weeks but I don't see that happening. And I think that some of it is her general lack of methodical planning - something she admits she's not good at - and some of it is just enjoying the freedom of being able to buy food when she wants to.

I want to try to establish a routine that S and I go out together once a week and shop off a list and at least talk about meal planning.

---

Things seem to continue to settle down although I did just have to stop typing to break up a cat argument. My girls are not backing down or giving in to the intruders. The older female cat S brought is chill but the young male cat is a jerk.

I'm currently dealing with a rather badly infected scratch on my leg from a week or so ago from one of the fights I broke up. It seems to have triggered my cellulitis a bit which is scary and annoying. S immediately researched everything she could find, I had a long soak in the tub (which helped) and then as instructed spent most of the day with my feet up and a cold compress around the leg. I picked up cellulitis years ago in Cuba, thought it was just an allergic reaction to a bite then each subsequent year it got worse during that trip. No issues anywhere else in the world, just there and now here.

Beyond the cold compress I am now taking garlic pills and using an antibiotic cream which S told me to do about a week ago and I ignored. The inflammation in 1 leg is pretty much gone now and the other is getting better I think. I have promised that if it turns worse that I won't waste time getting to the doctor's office. I know how quickly this can turn into something much much more serious.

Kinda wonder if she's realizing that I may be a bit more work to keep healthy than she imagined

----

I was talking to S18 the other afternoon in the car ride home from his job - best time to talk to kids - and he also said that he really likes that he can "relax" here. I do get the feeling from time to time that the boys have in the back of their minds that they've seen this movie before though. They do seem confident though that this is now home.

The unpacking is progressing steadily. I'm fairly pleased over-all. There is still a very very long way to go. S and I have had some preliminary talks about what stays and what goes for the duplicates etc. When I see something she brought that is really nice I make a point of pointing that out and saying that I think we should keep it.

Anyway - that's all for now. Back to work tomorrow although I spent a few hours today doing planning and making calls to people who didn't have this as a holiday. I have a week's vacation booked next week.

[kml]

Amphetamine based ADD meds can cause lack of appetite and slowed growth; many times the drugs are skipped for the summer out of school to allow catch-up growth.

[AndrewP]

Busy week both professionally and personally. Vacation starts in about 5 hours though. Which means at least a certain amount of less work. I booked an inn in S's home town for Sunday and Monday and she'll be finally able to show me around. The rest of the week is planned to be puttering.

I've signed on and composed a post a couple of times through the week but then canceled the post because really, there's not a lot to talk through. Writing helps me work through things in my head which is very very helpful. Kind of like a mirror therapist perhaps because talking to yourself is perhaps a stereotypical form of madness

A big part of the hassle with this week on a personal basis is that my darned cellulitus. As many know, any form of chronic pain is very tiring. And since this is obliging me to sit still as much as possible, that is an extra layer of frustration.

S has been fabulous - especially when compared to my ex-wife who would literally yell at me whenever I got sick. She's given me suggestions, instructed me clearly to not putter the way that I would normally, picked up some of the puttering load, keeps a close eye on me. She's not pushy or bossy about it but very empathetic. It's nice.

Both legs had gotten infected. One is essentially completely better. The other one which has the cat scratch that triggered it, is still red and swollen, but less so each day. Soaking in a hot tub with Epsom salts perhaps helped and perhaps hurt. After I felt some nausea and fever as I suspect that the infection was carried out of my leg and into other parts of me. But it did feel nice. I had a laugh though because I had my computer and phone with me so am taking calls from the plant while naked in a tub full of bubbles. I didn't mention it to them

I was worried because I had the blood-work to do for my now booked angiogram (end of the month) yesterday and if this infection would skew the results. The lab tech assured me most likely it would only affect my white blood cell count which wasn't one of the things specifically being looked for and if the doctor was concerned that they would follow-up with me.

My last angiogram was 10 years ago. At the time they identified I think 3 or 4 blockages one at 50%. They chose to not put a stent in at that time and generally I've been "fine". Angina attacks when I've been stupid like spending 4 hours chopping up the ice in the driveway in the winter. This time, I'm pretty confident that they'll put a stent in. Perhaps more than one. From what the doctor said, what I've been writing off as angina for some years has probably been a series of minor heart attacks.

Frankly it scares me. I know that there are risks in this sort of procedure. I also know that the risks are low especially since I am a more or less healthy and relatively young man. S doesn't get that this worries me and I don't really push it with her as I don't want her wound up. I've made sure that my kids are all well informed. I've not heard back from S25 as of yet but I do see that he's now reading in the family chat so he's up on current events. The same doctor who did this procedure 10 years ago will be doing this one as well so he's now a 10 year more experienced practitioner who undoubtedly has a steady hand and will competently deal with all issues.

-----

Work has been good. Tiring in some ways in no small part because I now get several hundreds of emails each day instead of the former around a hundred. I'm in the email lists for anything to do with the plant or orders. For such a small facility there's a lot of noise. Each of them has to at least be glanced at but it takes time and I have to do my best to stay on top of them because in the noise there is also a percentage of signal.

Customers and suppliers are also learning that I'm "the guy" and a lot of of them are starting to just send things to me as well. I just had a small (18 tonnes) order come to me directly from a customer. Who woulda thought. Good thing I suppose that my job title is obscure and vague. If nobody knew what it meant before, they really don't know now. I've received some very gratifying feedback from both the company president that I report to as well as the guys in the plant. They seem to think that I'm doing a good job - I know that I miss things. I had them almost run a pump dry this week. The operator caught my mistake, let me know taking it on themselves as their mistake to which I pointed out that no - I made the mistake because it didn't cross my mind that the pump running dry would be an issue.

-----

The settling in process in the house continues. The cats still argue a fair bit and the one older immigrant female cat is expressing her dis-pleasure at not being allowed outside by peeing on the rubber welcome mat. Not very welcoming but fairly easy to clean.

The unpacking proceeds. A good portion of the front porch floor is now visible. S said that her "field marshal" D25 has agreed to help unpack and organize which will undoubtedly be a whirlwind of results. Some of which we'll have to undo. That girl is a force of nature, shaped no doubt by being the oldest of 5 with a single Mom who was at times physically incapacitated.

S and S13 had a "play date" / "hanging out because teenagers don't do play dates" with some friends of mine and their two boys around the corner. They spent the afternoon there. When I asked S13 how it went I got a "meh" reaction. S used to live in the village years ago in an apartment over one of the main street stores so knew these people in a general sense. S13 played soccer with one of the boys a long time ago. They stayed outside because my friend wanted to ensure proper social distancing which meant no video games which annoyed the boys a bit.

S and my friend seem to have a lot in common and by the sounds of it got along well. I was a bit worried about S13 until his older brother asked how the day went. S13 bellowed out "THEY'RE RICH!", talked about the in-ground pool, the tree house wired for electricity, and it turned out that the boys got along fairly well. Played nerf guns - which both boys here do "all" the time and a few other things that I don't recall. So - while this might not be a steady hanging out option, it will undoubtedly be an occasional one and having someone a couple of blocks away to "do stuff" with will be good for S13.

And no - they're not "rich" at least in the way I look at the world. They are a hard-working real-estate couple who are successful and good at what they do. They actually did the "opinion of value" on my house during my divorce for me for free which was very kind of them. I think that they boys don't know how much money I make and it's perhaps good to keep it that way.

Speaking of money, S surprised me a couple of days ago by making a large transfer into the "family" account. During the budget meetings I've mentioned that I've been drawing down the "contingency fund" to cover the unusual expenses that have been being incurred. We also talked about when S has all of her past obligations sorted out and we are on a smooth path that she'll contribute more to the day-to-day. I didn't want her to be left short on her side where she doesn't have the large buffers I have built in to the "our" side. I did ask her how the funds should be allocated, she did say that repairing the contingency fund was a priority and the rest was to cover bills. So the merging of the finances is proceeding smoothly I believe.

There was one minor episode worth mentioning with S18. I am accumulating a stash of treats to send down to D28 and her H. S18 - after checking with his mother - appropriated part of it. The lure of Canadian chocolate was too much to bear. The next day he returned double the amount of chocolate with an apology that he couldn't resist and had checked with his mother. I told him, "no problem - thanks" and then later made a point of letting him know how pleased I was that he owned up and made good on what he borrowed without asking. I then (because the story is everything) told him about when I did the exact same thing to S25. I'm a bit miffed that this happened - but the resolution is fine.

Well - that's about all for now.

[Ginger1]

I truly hope you got antibiotics! Cellulitis cannot be cured by Epsom salts and essential oils. And if if you don’t properly care for it, you can end up with a blood stream infection. Please get yourself abx!

[AndrewP]

I truly hope you got antibiotics! Cellulitis cannot be cured by Epsom salts and essential oils. And if if you don’t properly care for it, you can end up with a blood stream infection. Please get yourself abx!

I'm using a topical antibiotic. Slathering it on rather generously. Plus cold compresses. Both suggested by S. Surprisingly no essential oils have been suggested although I have chugged down a number of garlic pills. There has been steady improvement. Probably not as much as I would get through an oral or intravenous antibiotic but I worry about those damaging my gut biome.

Being as I have a passing knowledge of chemicals, I was surprised and S was horrified at what some of the fillers in the garlic pills she was using were that I know "should be" biologically inert and are only added for cosmetic reasons. TI02 for opacity, iron oxide to make the pill yellow, a couple of others to bind it all together. Yellow is actually one of the hardest colours to reliably produce. This is one of the reasons I usually buy generic brand. They have less fillers but have the same concentrations of active ingredients. They are often made in the same plant with the same production controls and feed stock as the "name brand" products too.

[Ginger1]

Cellulitis is not something to mess with S isn’t a medical professional and you aren’t either. You need a specific antibiotic, not an OTC antibiotic cream. You need medical attention. I have 2 patients currently on my unit with bad cellulitis. One with positive blood cultures. Needs 6 weeks of IV abx.

But I know you aren’t a fan of doctors and medicine. And you’ll do what you’ll do. But it can be dangerous, just a warning .

[Dawn70]

EVERYTHING G SAID!!!!!!! Listen, I'm not a medical professional nor do I play one on tv as the old commercial goes, so I'm not going to give you any medical advice other than to say listen to the actual nurse who commented. What I will tell you is that my XH had a lengthy laundry list of medical issues and of all the bull crap he dealt with, cellulitis was probably the worst and he didn't take it seriously at first either, mainly because he didn't even know what it was for the first few days until I nearly nagged him to death to go to the doctor about it. He was hospitalized with it for TEN DAYS! Come on now, Andrew, you are a very smart man. Listen, I hate going to the doctor too. I DREAD it because I'm a needlephobe, but I had to suck it up and go earlier this week because I hadn't been in 2 years and my doctor said, come see me and get bloodwork or I won't refill any of your scrips that keep your blood pressure at a level I'm happy with. Ugh...……………….but my point here is that yes, going to the doctor blows (no offense, kml), but this is NOT something to play around with and OTC and hot baths and the like may help with the symptoms, but they aren't likely helping the underlying cause. Take care of yourself, Andrew!

[job]

Oh for goodness sakes....get your arse to a doctor and get those legs looked at and treated by a proper medical professional. You could end up w/a serious blood infection and worse case scenarios...died from it or lose your leg(s).

Seriously Andrew, S has gone to school and earned her medical degree...get in to see a real doctor asap.

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