Ending Limbo

[Core]

My goal is not to save my M but to save me and give my kids a good life. Limbo and hatred dont mesh with that.

Hi Core, sounds like a bad, bad idea. You're mind-reading "she feels vulnerable and hurt and is protecting herself". Also, you already know she's neither in a place to commit to reconciliation nor ready to divorce you. There's no need to "pathetically ask" when in this moment (sorry) she despises you.

Avoid saying anything.

What actions could Core take to build himself up?

Thanks for the feedback CW. As far as how she feels, I'm nearly positive I'm on target. Not mind reading, more an understanding and knowledge from past chats with her, things I've learned DBing and how she talks to others currently.
Her despising me is why I want to have the chat. Time to sh or get off the pot. How would a victim feel...thats how she perceives herself, probably how she feels.

You say nothing. There is no last last last last last ditch effort . You are only going to make her see you worse than she already does. And it’s going to have absolutely zero effect.

Be effective. Just do it. Actions. No words . your have gotten you no where . And you’ve used a whole lot of them. She can’t stand you right now ( sorry for the harshness) and she really even loathe you more when you bring up memories.

Don’t do it. Be silent. I understand that can be very difficult, but you’ll certainly save some face

G, thank you. My take - the silent approach gives me pause. My reasoning, as messed up as she's been to me, she did cut off contact with OM and has "tried" to go to counseling. Her damage being so bad as giving her panic attacks mostly due to what I think is her early caregivers abandoning her around 4, I don't want to hurt her during this. As another human being and mother of my kids, I want to end the marriage gently as pushing her abandonment button when she distanced is partially why I believe I'm here. She wouldn't do the same for me but I'm not like her. Our last real R chat was a couple moons ago, and she asked for time then, not D.

Unless you want to get massively BDed.

Step away from your emotions - they are leading you right now, and you may regret making an emotional decision while you are in this state.

Calm yourself first. Get ahold of your anxiety.

Definitely in a state of high emotion at the moment of my last post. I plan to chat once Im more balanced out. If she BDs me, she does me a favor. I'd rather it be her.

[IronWill]

Core -

Everyone here is telling you not to have an R chat right now.

You still want to have one.

I did what you did for 6 months. Then I stopped because it was just causing me extra pain for nothing. That's what it will do for you.

I am no longer willing to talk about the R. I am no longer willing to discuss something that will cause me pain for no reason. If W decides to come back and initiates that R talk, that would be different. But it's not the case right now. Neither is it for you.

Good luck, man. I'm sorry for all the pain you will experience.

Take care - stay strong.

[Core]

As early as one week ago you were ready to play the long game and then you snoop and read something you don’t like and you go back to wanting to force it.

I feel like you’ve lost your identity and you don’t know who you are right now. One minute your all about the kids and sucking it up for them, the next minute you have a great life planned out for the three of them and now you want to stroll down memory lane.

True, I didnt realize the extent of her existing hatred then. I thought we were more of on edge roommates. Didn't know I was subhuman. If this stuff is communicated over facebook, what could my kids overhear in person around Ws friends?

This also lets me know what I thought was fun, good days together was something else for her. What seemed like her jokes and teases maybe were small personal attacks. Who knows.

I am a proponent for the one last relationship talk but you’re not ready for it right now. You’re are not strong enough to say this isn’t working for you and communicating your expectations of what you want out of marriage and then walking if she won’t work towards meeting those expectations.

You’re a beaten man right now and are in no position to come from a place of strength.

Beaten but not knocked out. I want to end this before round 12 before I do go down. I have a preplanned trip with her and her family tomorrow, going out on a boat with the kids. I've got an ill feeling about it but want to go to see kids first boat ride. I'm hoping im paranoid but it does feel like it could be a set up as its family members whom would side with her no question asked. I'm tired of not trusting, of knowing she could claim false allegations at any point. I will have audio recording the entire time unless it gets wet.

I have wanted to speak R with my H. But I am not ready, and I know if I attempted, it would not go well. I still want to stand and I am really trying to not read his mind

Glad you stopped by. I want to D more than stand at this point. If I have one last chat, I can say I tried it all.

Last Friday ( one week ago) til Monday, he was very nice, making mini convos. Tuesday morning, someone else took over and he returned to being blank stare- distant. He has been easy to deal with in the last few months. What changed? I.dont.know. I cannot read his mind. I can think he’s hurt and is depressed and a multitude of other excuses, but I really don’t know. What do I know? Me. I am not ready to give up, and a year ago, this was normal behavior. I have seen him lighten up and cycle through a few times since then. He is fighting his own battles.

I had cried to my IC when he went out with his friends, thinking of all of the lies he was possibly telling them. She asked why it mattered, since I know the truth. I had to really think about that. He’s lying. Oh well. I know the truth, and so does he.

I think they start to believe their false narratives after awhile. Heck W almost had me convinced early on that this was all my fault, that i hurt us all, that I need to move out. I was in the actual experiences and still gave credit to her words. I know what W is saying to friends and its just not right. She's like the villian from countless shows/movies...how does one not see that in themselves unless theyve a disorder. Is your H the type to talk about you to friends? I honestly only had two negative chats to friends before BD. I rarely talked about R stuff.

I will just keep standing until I decide I don’t want to or until I don’t need to, this isnt for the weak. Do what you need to do as in making a plan if things don’t go to a reconciliation. But if you can, GAL and don’t talk to her about R.

Now I'm no longer sure what I actually want to talk to her about. I really think I want to relieve my own guilt and D.

[Core]

I am so sorry. Your feelings must be so hurt right now. I know mine would be. Here you are, doing your best as a Dad and an H, and W throws it in your face with her nasty text conversations. Ouch. Deep, heart-hurt there. It’s OK to feel sad and hurt and angry right now. You are allowed those feelings.

You're good at this validation stuff.

HOWEVER (ha! You probably knew this was coming), you absolutely MUST see this as a reflection of her, not you. What kind of person gains legitimacy (laughs/humor/kicks) by bashing or making fun of a good person? Only an unhealthy person. Only a person who is lost, sad, low self-esteem and bitter. PLEASE do not take this as an excuse to pity her. She is not worthy of your pity right now. But if you were reading your thread and knew nothing of the two of you, you would see it as I do: Core is a good person trying his best and his W is a sad, lost, bitter creature who is not worthy of his attention. I mean, SO NOT WORTHY. (Right now).

Do NOT have that last R talk. She will use it to further degrade you and you will regret it. Right now, you need to bottle that anger/hurt/feeling of being done and save it as rocket fuel for the next step. And you can only decide the next step when you are in a place of calm. Which isn’t now.

What scares me is being in a tiny house with this person during a worldwide crisis while this is what they think of me. Joking about physical harm, joking about my looks, actions. How long until they joke about how to remove me from the house. How she could get full custody of the kids. Then it becomes serious. Im at a disadvantage compared to women on this board, the court doesnt favor the dad, and W has had months to stack cards (friends and fam) against me.

Her words are a reflection of her, not you. Her, not you. Drum that into your soul. This is about her and not you.

Amen

Once you are in a place of what’s best for YOU, uncap that rocket fuel and use it to propel you to the next level of Core. The one deserving of a partner who appreciates him, sees what a great Dad he is (ahem, model girl at the park), and knows how to treat a person with dignity and respect.

It might be your W. It might not. But in the meantime, stay true to Core.

(((Core)))

I may skip the countdown. I have to launch while there is fuel and before I get sabotaged here.

[LH19]

C,

It’s not 1950 anymore. The courts don’t favor the woman anymore. They recognize time with both parents are important.

[Core]

Everyone here is telling you not to have an R chat right now.

You still want to have one.

I did what you did for 6 months. Then I stopped because it was just causing me extra pain for nothing. That's what it will do for you.

I am no longer willing to talk about the R. I am no longer willing to discuss something that will cause me pain for no reason. If W decides to come back and initiates that R talk, that would be different. But it's not the case right now. Neither is it for you.

Good luck, man. I'm sorry for all the pain you will experience.

Take care - stay strong.

I get where you and most of the others are coming from IW. In regards to an R chat, I can avoid it to save myself pain, or I can have the R chat, facing the pain and avoiding guilt and regret. I've been hurt so many times already, what's a little more pain versus having the regrets of not having one last conversation before filing?

All, I think we have to be true to ourselves and thats what I'd be doing. Part of my identity. Who I am as a person. If it pushes her away, thats probably a good thing. I do not see how she can possible fix the damage she's done in her lifetime unless me, my very few contacts, whomever W has told and my IC all bumped our heads, got amnesia and all forgot what happened here. How could I ever remotely trust her again? How could I gaze in her eyes and experience joy or love? I've learned too much about D, attachment theory, cluster Bs, true nature of WWs to make peace. So many red flags, I feel like I'm in Beijing. I was naive. I'll miss being so but glad I no longer am. Every word she speaks I now know theres a hidden goal and meaning. Especially as she often accused me of such even though I was direct. Its projecting. W has been spending and drinking a lot more as well. This is money we need for lawyers and kids college, not a giant outdoor playset. Talking money is inches from an R chat and will likely go there. We agreed to a budget which she's exceeding.

I get the pro marriage takes here. Im wondering, what benefit is there to me to not D right now? I understand my kids may be better off in this mess versus a D but what about me?

No physical or emotional needs met. She spends about 80% of our free income. I'm at risk of false allegations. I'm passively targeted with aggression often. We agree on almost nothing lately especially kids and finances.

Why fight, so my kids can see what a broken man looks like going to an early grave? There is no doubt even the most stoic man would still face stress from bleeding finances, dismal communication, separation from his goals and frequent passive aggression. I want to live long for my kids, this situation is counter to that. It's stressful no matter how you cut it. D will be more financially stressful but I'd have a clean house which I control, minimal spending, vacations and parenting the way I like, ability to achieve my dreams, ability to love someone who reciprocates or at least enjoy short term fun.

I no longer see any reason to stand, not even for the kids. They'd be hurt more if I passed in my early 40s of a heart attack and they had no biological dad around.

[SamCal]

I get where you and most of the others are coming from IW. In regards to an R chat, I can avoid it to save myself pain, or I can have the R chat, facing the pain and avoiding guilt and regret. I've been hurt so many times already, what's a little more pain versus having the regrets of not having one last conversation before filing?

All, I think we have to be true to ourselves and thats what I'd be doing. Part of my identity. Who I am as a person. If it pushes her away, thats probably a good thing. I do not see how she can possible fix the damage she's done in her lifetime unless me, my very few contacts, whomever W has told and my IC all bumped our heads, got amnesia and all forgot what happened here. How could I ever remotely trust her again? How could I gaze in her eyes and experience joy or love? I've learned too much about D, attachment theory, cluster Bs, true nature of WWs to make peace. So many red flags, I feel like I'm in Beijing. I was naive. I'll miss being so but glad I no longer am. Every word she speaks I now know theres a hidden goal and meaning. Especially as she often accused me of such even though I was direct. Its projecting. W has been spending and drinking a lot more as well. This is money we need for lawyers and kids college, not a giant outdoor playset. Talking money is inches from an R chat and will likely go there. We agreed to a budget which she's exceeding.

I get the pro marriage takes here. Im wondering, what benefit is there to me to not D right now? I understand my kids may be better off in this mess versus a D but what about me?

No physical or emotional needs met. She spends about 80% of our free income. I'm at risk of false allegations. I'm passively targeted with aggression often. We agree on almost nothing lately especially kids and finances.

Why fight, so my kids can see what a broken man looks like going to an early grave? There is no doubt even the most stoic man would still face stress from bleeding finances, dismal communication, separation from his goals and frequent passive aggression. I want to live long for my kids, this situation is counter to that. It's stressful no matter how you cut it. D will be more financially stressful but I'd have a clean house which I control, minimal spending, vacations and parenting the way I like, ability to achieve my dreams, ability to love someone who reciprocates or at least enjoy short term fun.

I no longer see any reason to stand, not even for the kids. They'd be hurt more if I passed in my early 40s of a heart attack and they had no biological dad around.

So, why are you wanting to have one last loving talk with this person if this is how you feel about her/the M? What's your end game on that?

[Core]

To say I tried everything and to know that I did truly do what I felt was right, for me and the kids; and in a way for W. Sudden abandonment would be brutal and would rock her core. I cant hurt another person like that.

[Ginger1]

To say I tried everything and to know that I did truly do what I felt was right, for me and the kids; and in a way for W. Sudden abandonment would be brutal and would rock her core. I cant hurt another person like that.

I hate to be brutally honest here, but how is this sudden abandonment? She knows exactly what she has done, what’s been going on here. There is nothing “sudden”

[Core]

I agree with you. I just think our mindset is different from hers.

"I thought we were working on things"
"I thought we agreed to get the kids through kindergarten"
"But I'm going to therapy"
"See I knew you'd do this"
"This seems out of the blue"

Thousands of scenarios she can come up with to stick me with this and use it against me, my family or to divide my kids from me years down the road.

I'm tired on living in her frame of avoidance. Just ignoring problems and each other. Thats not me. I'm sick of walking in a room to someone pretending im not there. Sick of a lingering unending sitch. Sick of having no one to do any kind of adulting with besides parenting. Even with a roommate I'd still have a drink with them, watch a movie together. Nothing here. Why live in her frame? Mine is better and life was better for us both in my frame.