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kml Offline
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hahahaha!!!! That's great!
I hope he was on speakerphone during that conversation you had so OW could hear it all.

I'm going to inject one thought here. Everybody is encouraging you to fight him and I agree it is incredibly annoying what he did. BUT - I also feel like the more you fight him, the more you play into his hands. He'll do anything to get a rise out of you. Getting into a court based battle about this may just be playing into his hands.

I know you didn't want S2 to have overnights with him but it happened and nothing terrible came of it. In fact having to reassure S2 constantly that he was going to see you tomorrow was probably very annoying. I think your ex's main interest in having the overnights right now is precisely because he knows you don't want him to. I bet if you dropped the rope and told him he needed to take him every Saturday night he'd start coming up with excuses why he couldn't pretty soon.

(I love the fact that he kept coming back to the balloons btw! Wonder what OW thought of him being so bothered by that lol.)

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kml Offline
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(Maybe the balloons should have read "Free At Last!)

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Hi Scout,

Just another reassurance that what he did was totally unacceptable. Good to get the doctor's documentation of his injuries, whether it is necessary for legal reasons in the future or not. You have been making decisions in S2's best interest, nothing more. It is unfortunate for your XH that those decision aren't matching up with exactly what he wants, but he lost the privilege of being considered in an equal or close-second position when he cheated and left. Spouses get their desires taken into consideration. A$$hole exes don't. Too bad, so sad.

Particularly when he CLEARLY planned out this weekend, jet skiing and 2 hour drive. This was not a car breakdown situation. Linked with the COVID test results lie from the previous weekend, this is just pretty f-ed up. So, please take all the reinforcement you need to tell that self-doubt to go away.

I totally get what kml is saying. That being said-- and I don't disagree-- I guess my question is who cares if you're playing into his hands? What does a court battle do for him? Maybe it feeds his narrative of you being unreasonable or whatever... but does that matter to you? Who cares what his motivation is for wanting overnights or not? I would try to think dispassionately about all of this, when you can, to really weigh out if you're doing this to protect yourself and your son or if any of this is driven by anger. It could be that by fueling his narrative and getting into it over this, you will suffer emotionally and it is better just to let it go (as long as you think S2 is safe, which honestly is a question mark for me with jetskis and two year olds and all. Did he wear a life vest?). If you'll be lying awake at night every time he has S2 wondering if he is going to bring him home or not, or S2 continues to be as traumatized as he seemed to be after being with him, then I'd pull out all the stops.

In the long term, of course, it is probably in S2's best interest to have a positive and fulfilling relationship with his father, as much as that might be possible with someone with NPD. At some point you'll have to figure out how you can help to facilitate that, if possible. How terrible would it be to offer your ex a chance to see S2 on Father's Day with you present?


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Also - re: the diaper rash. It's possible he was neglectful and didn't change it. But be careful about assumptions. My son used to get wicked diaper rash anytime he drank orange juice. It's possible that they gave S2 something that didn't agree with him. You might try inquiring - nicely, by email so it's documented - about the diaper rash. Attach pictures and just ask "Hey, S2 came home with this wicked diaper rash (see attached photos). Did you perhaps feed him something different or use something different on his bottom that he might be reacting to? I'd like to make sure I avoid that thing in the future whatever it was." That way you're not accusing him, but it's documented that he had the rash and that you have the photos. Puts him on notice to be more careful without putting him into defensive mode (or at least giving you plausible deniability if he does get defensive).

Really, I think if you ask him to take S2 every Saturday night he'll refuse because it will dawn on him that this is date night - and who might you be going out with? A little bit of aikido - use his own weight to throw him.

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I have so much I want to say about all of the events you have endured these past few days, Scout, but I only have a moment and want to echo the others on the aikido maneuver of letting H have S2 every Sat night.

Just today, I had a first hand experience of this actually working (in my favor!). It had to do with Covid homeschooling the children, where it would happen and who would be in charge. I have been fretting about this for weeks and weeks, talking to my IC about it etc etc. But all along I have been amicable and seemed interested in splitting things equally etc (NOT what I want). Well this morning we had the big final talk about how it was all going to break down (school starts tomorrow) and he suggested I take charge and that it happens consistently in my home and that I let him know when I need help. YES!

Some extended time with the children while I was out of town, combined with an onslaught of teacher emails (x 4 kids) and the logistical nightmare of it all Made him realize it was too much for him. And I didn’t even have to say a thing.

Also, our child custody timing has also turned out the same: I am ending up with more and more time as the weeks go by. Because he doesn’t have to fight me for the time, it becomes less precious.

More later, but you’ve got this!!

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I really appreciate all of your thoughts. While it would ease my mind to refuse access, I basically came to the same conclusion as kml that I must play the long game here and think strategically when dealing with this type of personality.

I haven’t spoken further to X since Monday morning. His Tuesday daycare pickup and visitation occurred without issue. In fact, S2 was returned 10 minutes early. I believe X has realised how thin the ice beneath his feet is now, so he’ll toe the line until he feels more secure again. Once he realised that my family, his family, and the police got involved, it must have clicked that what he did was a step too far. So that calms my fears somewhat.

In the interim, I’m moving swiftly to get consent on a new parenting plan. I’ve offered two Saturday overnights a month commencing immediately and increased weekday time. I’ve also outlined how the time will increase further over the next two years, eventually giving him weekly overnights and every other full weekend. Holidays, birthdays, changeovers, communication— it’s all in there and all very fair. I want it locked down as soon as possible.

I also plan to move ahead with the Father’s Day visit this weekend as planned as long as he provides the physical address of the overnight visit and emergency contact information if he can’t be reached. I will make it very clear that if S2 is not back in my care at the scheduled time, I will not agree to any further visitation until a court order is in place. I’ll also mention the nappy rash and let him know what I usually do to prevent it.

I just want to reiterate that I offered for X to start taking S2 overnight back in February. He threw a fit because it wasn’t the amount of time he wanted and then stopped negotiating completely. S2 has comes miles in his development since then and I don’t believe he will be greatly affected by the differences in my parenting vs X’s ‘parenting’. Hopefully X will improve with time. Kml is right— S2 was not affected by the overnight visit and he understands what is going on.

Once again, I’m required to be the only reasonable adult in this situation and spoonfeed X since he seems completely unable to resolve this in a productive way for S2’s sake. If he feels like he has won, my life is easier. As long my peace doesn’t come at S2’s expense, I can handle pretty much anything this personality disordered man throws at me. At first I thought the only way to win was to not play. Now, I’m learning how to play the game.


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Scout -- SO sorry to read this happened.

I want to say very clearly to not make the mistakes I made. You have seen what happened when you go my route. I care about you and say this with absolute love and want to give you courage. (And I am in a state of total terror and panic as I have court tomorrow, so I get it.)

You should refuse access until a custody agreement is in place. The man is dangerous and your child was traumatized. A two year old isn't "fine" after that -- he is going into defense mode. I don't remember about five years of my childhood -- defense mechanisms are how a child gets through that, but that doesn't make it "fine." You would never let a babysitter take your child for even five minutes who did that. Stop caring what anyone thinks. Your mother in law has eyes and ears. She can choose not to see the truth and there is nothing you can do. My mother in law won't speak to me though I tried to keep our bridges open and she hasn't seen my son, who she adores, in two years. (Watch the news any day to consider how easy it is to have truth in front of you and see it with some other eyes.) You can write them a short kind letter explaining what happened and offering for them to come over to your backyard for a picnic with him, etc.

You should tell H that because he took S overnight without agreement, busted his lip, document the severe emotional distress, diaper rash, etc., you can no longer allow visits without a custody agreement in place, and that there will need to be supervised visits for now. Go to your local domestic abuse counseling center and get the names of social workers who can supervise visits. Get one involved. I do not think overnights are okay based on what you said but I understand why you feel you have to allow them.

When people told me things like that years ago, I would get very upset that they didn't understand my faith and stop coming to the boards. Now I understand that the best way to stand would have been to hold my H to the same standards to which I would hold any man/person. Let him take you to court to argue that after everything you wrote above that he needs full unsupervised access. A judge that punishes you for that? That's cause for an appeal.

Be kind, forgive him daily, hourly. But put very very strict boundaries in place. Protect your son until your H shows that he can do it without supervision.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
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I have to disagree Gerda. Nothing bad happened to S2 that couldn't have happened with any normal dad (let's face it, father's are usually the risk takers with kids anyway). And rather than get into a huge legal fight and have her ex continue to draw her in, giving him a reasonable custody schedule (which any judge would have given him anyway, btw) and then watching him come up with excuses not to take it is the way to go. He will probably take S2 LESS this way anyway. When dealing with someone who is personality disordered like this, you have to think strategically and pick your battles.

And he should agree to giving her the address now that he's seen how many people got involved.

Scout, just put it all in emails so you have copies of his responses should you ever need them in court, Then keep track of how many times he declines his custody days. Never say anything in writing that you wouldn't want to have show up in court.

Your ex is seething that you are moving on with your life and he still wants to think of you waiting patiently for him at home. They almost all do. He's trying to use the custody stuff to provoke a response from you because he's not getting satisfaction in any other way. In aikido, you use the body weight and momentum of the other person to throw them 0 kinda like the ultimate dropping the rope in a game of tug-of-war. This is gonna leave him befuddled.

(Funny story from my own divorce after 24 years: when my ex finally left, it was really a three strikes and you're out situation. After a couple of months I felt I had done everything possible to save my marriage over the previous ten years since his last affair, and that there was no way I would ever trust him again, so I let go. I soon after started dating a lovely man who lived 11 hours away, and would go visit him one long weekend a month. He was terribly sexy and I had brought home one of his t-shirts which had his lovely body scent all over it. I slept with it under my pillow. He was a very tall man, 6'6", so the shirt was quite large.

My ex was pushing to sell the house so one of those weekends that I was gone to visit the boyfriend he was at the house getting it ready to sell. I had left my bed unmade so he made it. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when he discovered this very tall man's t-shirt under my pillow. wink )

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Hey scout ~

I also agree with what kml is saying in the first couple paragraphs.

What your X did (taking S2 overnight w/o your consent) was wrong. I was frustrated with my X's control of the kids the past year, but I never would have taken that step. I think you are absolutely doing the right thing to make a reasonable offer of a step-up plan, largely because it will contain all the extra language that makes things legally enforceable. The courts want both parents to play an active role in childrens' lives -- of course while being very seriously concerned about the child's well-being and the fitness of the parents.

What I have to say next is more speaking in generalities, and not specifically about your situation. In these high-conflict custody situations, both sides start vilifying the other person. War ensues, L's get paid a lot of money, the kids and parents suffer emotionally and financially, and, in the end, you end up with a custody plan similar to what you are offering right now anyways, for instance.

In my (completely different from your) situation, I felt like my X was withholding access, coaching the children, in it for the money, using double standards, etc. I think she was not comfortable with me having more access to the kids, or she wanted extra control over the process that was not reasonable. I felt that every step of the way I was doing my best to de-escalate the situation while simultaneously asserting what I thought was a reasonable solution. It didn't really work in my situation... we didn't go all the way to the expensive trial but we got really really close.

I can see you are really hurt. Your X is driving around with OW, parading her in front of your face, taking S2 overnight and lying about the reasons. I would be irate. I don't think it matters if he has a personality disorder or is just upset about the D -- he is very very difficult to work with right now. He is tossing bait around and hoping you bite so you are drawn into conflict. The conflict feeds his impression of you, it helps justify what he is doing, he thrives on viewing you as controlling, then he can justify his actions to himself without any guilt.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that you focus on minimizing the conflict and keep it business-like. You are clearly a strong and emotionally aware person and the more mature parent by leaps and bounds. But I see that, at times, your X baits you into little arguments and tiffs. As much as your blood boils, he's not listening to what you say back to him anyways, and he's just using it to further the conflict. I don't view it as being the bigger person and walking away, it's about focusing on the end game -- getting to a strictly business co-parenting relationship while minimizing the emotional energy, money, and time you have to burn to get there.

I'm not suggesting he's off the hook or anything. Control what you can and try to ignore the bait (if you can) or use your L as needed.

Your X is looking for fuel to stoke his fire to justify his actions. Starve him of his fuel supply (the best you can).

Hang in there. You are a strong parent and you'll get through this.

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Ok now I’m thinking of what other kinds of balloon signs you could put up in the future to annoy him? wink Yes, I’m bad.

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