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Oh Alison, your post made me feel so sad.

You strike me as so wise, nurturing and empathetic. You deserve so much more than your marriage is offering you right now. SO much more.

Reading your words, it feels like you are at an inflection point: do you continue the same trajectory waiting for H to move towards you and lean into the M? Or do you move towards a different version of your life, one where you no longer are standing for your M?

It doesn't sound like he is capable of changing right now. What if he is never capable of changing?

A year is a long time. But I have read threads where people have waited 3-4 years for their partner to come around. Personally, I don't believe I have that sort of patience. I want too much out of life. How about you? Where does your patience run out? Are you there yet?

I also believe that just because one makes a decision to end the M, it doesn't mean that the R is over forever. You could end your current M and wind up meeting the best, most loving incredible partner in the world (and wonder what took you so long to leave your loveless M!). You could end your current M and you and H could wind up back together in a true M 2.0. I don't believe that someone like you will be single the rest of her life. You have too much to offer.

Please keep posting, we are here for you.

(((Alison)))

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(((Alison)))

It seems to me like communication is a really big issue for the two of you— for him, really, both in listening and in sharing his own feelings. At some point, he is going to have to make a commitment to working on those skills for you two to move forward. He doesn’t seem to either understand or maybe want to understand what he needs to do in order to improve your M and, frankly, keep you.

I know you hated MC but I have to say I agree with unchien— there needs to be some mechanism to learn those communication skills and it isn’t going to happen on its own. Are there other possibilities? Reading a book together or something? I think you can do the Gottman weekend online now.

Do you think it would help for you to sit down with him and clearly and calmly say that he needs to commit to working on communication with you or there isn’t much of a point any more?

Also... my romantic heart sees an alternate scenario, where he does love and cherish you but has no idea how to express it to you and is so trapped in his own head and unhappiness that he simply lashes out whenever his emotions are stirred in any way. And if he could learn to understand and deal with his own emotions, and communicate appropriately about them to you, and listen openly and fully to you... things could be different. But he would have to come to making those changes.

xx M


Me (46) H (42)
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4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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thanks friends.

When I read your posts, I notice how resistant I am to some of your suggestions. I don't know if it is that I am generally quite down at the moment and that is colouring the way I see things (and I am - I am very tired and low and just DONE with having to convince the kids to do something other than sit in front of their screens 24/7 as well as try to keep up with my own work and the house stuff) or if I am just disconnected from my marriage.

I don't WANT to convince him to go to MC, then have to sit and listen to him struggle to learn to make an empathic response, validate, show care and consideration, learn my love language. I did those things on my own - not perfectly, but I did - because I wanted to. He doesn't want to. And it isn't that he doesn't know how. He knew perfectly well how to do it when he was trying to seduce a 25 year old. He was able to give complements, show interest, say affectionate and romantic things, find time in his schedule, remember her special dates and show concern for her troubles, research and buy little and thoughtful gifts, flirt, make jokes, have fun and be happy. He KNOWS how to do these things and he can find the energy and will to do it. He just doesn't care to with me, and I don't care to sit there while a therapist either gets to the bottom of why he doesn't want to / is afraid to / can't be bothered to. I really don't want to.

I also, really, don't want to sit and watch films with him, or play children's games with him, or listen to him bang on about how he's much better than anyone else he works with, or make catty remarks about whoever he works with, or the news, or anything else he wants to complain about. I guess I want him to be the type of person I'd enjoy spending time with, but he's really not. I have to be honest and say most of the time I don't like him at all. I am not forgiving. I am angry at him for not being for me what he was for his EA woman. It was short lived, and it was two years ago now - but seeing that glimpse of him in that relationship and seeing that he hasn't been that man in this relationship for a very long time, and still isn't willing to be, makes me furious. I think H thinks I am still angry about the EA and I am not. I get why it happened and I do believe it isn't happening now. But it may as well be - the man I wanted and the man I married never came back to me.

I have said we need to work our communication. I have asked him what he needs from me. All he says is peace, and space, and time on his own. it's a constant and regular refrain. I don't really bother him that much any more. And the more I sit here, giving him space and waiting for him to come to me, the more my resentment and anger builds, and of course he can feel it - I don't think I express it, but we've known each other a long time and the man isn't an idiot.

I am very very tired. This has been an extremely difficult couple of years, and while i have learned a lot and grown a lot, I don't think I will ever be the kind of person that is happy in the kind of marriage my H wants and the kind of relationship he is able to offer. I remember feeling this type of upset and hurt and resentment years ago, and my anger getting so out of control it drove him away. I won't be that person again, but I also won't STFU and validate and GAL for the rest of my life in another room so he can be happy and I can pretend to be happy as that what suits him best.

Last edited by AlisonUK; 08/09/20 01:53 PM.
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Hi Alison,

Just to say... if you don't want to be married to him anymore, you don't have to be. You've been at this a long time and done a lot of work on your side and he has not shown the capacity to do similar work. I think if you decide you want to keep at it, for whatever reasons, the communication thing is probably essential. But people only change if they have desire and motivation and the strength to do so... so far your H hasn't shown that. I'm not sure that he knows, exactly, what it is he would need to do-- I guess that has been my take on the situation, that he's a little clueless and trapped in his own miseries and unable to take a step back and see how his behavior affects you, number one, and then understand (number two) what changes he'd have to make to be a better partner to you. I don't know that he doesn't want that. But I would guess he has no idea how to do it or why. And maybe it is too much work for you to try to get that across to him with no guarantee he will be able to understand or make the necessary changes.

Tiny 2x4 on the EA... I think you need (if this is the way you want to go) to let go of the fact that he had the ability to pursue his EAP and show her affection, or what not. That was a total fantasy and he behaved accordingly. You are real life and it is a completely different animal. I don't think you can or should compare his behaviors during the EA to his EAP to how he engages with you. Yes, it does show it is *possible* for him to act like that... but in a total fantasy world. Maybe he can bring that part of himself to your M, eventually, with work... and maybe that is what is both making you frustrated and keeping you there? Can you tell him you want that side of him? Do you want to?

In the long term, though, what you are describing... STFUing and finding GAL outside of your M is not what you want or deserve. And you shouldn't feel badly if you decide you've had enough and it is time to give yourself the opportunity to find someone with whom you can have a R without so much work.

HUGS and thinking of you. xoxo


Me (46) H (42)
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4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Oh Alison. I wish I had wise words for you. I know how much work you've put into this and you sound defeated and oh so very very tired.

Originally Posted by AlisonUK
I don't know if it is that I am generally quite down at the moment and that is colouring the way I see things (and I am - I am very tired and low and just DONE with having to convince the kids to do something other than sit in front of their screens 24/7 as well as try to keep up with my own work and the house stuff) or if I am just disconnected from my marriage.


When I read the phrase "colouring the way I see things" I think back to the dark cloud that hung over my H. The way he saw our life, and in particular my part in it, through a grey filter.

I am going to offer an alternative. Things are opening up again. Why don't you go somewhere on your own. Away from the triggers, the kids in front of their screens, the house stuff, and yes, even your H. One of the advantages of this 'new way of working' is that we can now work from home from anywhere. So book a week somewhere. St Ives or a cottage in Cornwall, If that's too long, book a weekend in centerparcs. Go for bike rides, have some treatments, read books (not about relationships - just some utter rubbish pulp fiction). Leave your life behind you for a few days. Don't overthink. To be honest those thoughts will come anyway, but taken out of the context of home, you'll have the space you need to process.

Last edited by FlySolo; 08/10/20 09:33 PM.

W40 (me), H40
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D12, D9

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Hi Alison -

I am so sorry that you are struggling. You've been through a whole lot these last few years. Sending you positive thoughts -

From what I'm reading in your posts, I don't think he's quite done "baking" yet. I only say this because I see it in my W as well. Expecting anything out of them is a waste of time - they are simply not capable of handling normal adult interactions at this time. They are stuck - unable to move forward - and they keep reverting to the same behaviors from before.

It is you who decides how this goes. It's your choice - if you're willing to keep standing or not.

I wish I had more concrete answers for you, but I dont. I'm in the same place - except W never left home and it's ow been nearly 2 years since the first BD. And I see that she's still not there - it's only just beginning to shift.

If you stand, or if you go - remember to be kind to yourself. You've gone above and beyond here. Don't forget that.

Take care smile

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How are you doing, Alison? Thinking of you.


Me (46) H (42)
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Just checking in on you, I hope things have improved a bit now things have opened up a bit more most places. This has been one hard year even without marriage issues! I hope you are taking care of yourself and not beating yourself up about your kids or anything else. My teens are mostly nocturnal right now, they spend all their time on screens, they don't eat very well. And they are as happy as anything! Ds1 is an adult so I won't tell him what to do, ds2 I take to tennis lessons regularly and cut up fruit for him sometimes and nag him to look after his braces. Our household is very peaceful and content this summer, I figure it has been a tough time for everyone since March and if watching Jeopardy is the most intellectual pursuit the kids are doing then that's just fine smile

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Hi Alison, I too am thinking of you and hope that you have been on some wonderful walks with the kids and/or pup this past week. (((Alison)))

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Hello everyone.

It's been a while since I was here. I stepped away for a while - I decided that micro-analysing every little spat I had with H, every aspect of his behaviour and what I was assuming was behind it was about as much of a waste of time as endlessly circling here and reporting my own anger, and unforgiveness and resentment. I decided instead to just drop the rope on my marriage and concentrate on myself, my boundaries and practicing acceptance for my current situation. I wasn't ready to make the move towards divorce, though knowing I could and it was practically possible and not-scary for me was a good thing to do. So I just let it all be for a while.

Things have improved for me. I am still working at home, and extremely busy at the moment, and here in the UK we are entering a second wave. I live in one of the parts of the UK that is under reasonably strict pre-lockdown conditions - there's no mixing with other households. We can still get out, and the shops are open, but socialising in person with friends is over. I am past my quiet time at work and into my very busy time, and it is going to get much busier over the next few weeks, and pretty unpredictably depending on what happens with lockdown (I work in HE). But I am in better spirits, and the kids are happier now they are back at school - that's improved things a lot in our household. There's still more work to do on me looking after myself - I tend to vanish into my work as a kind of escape mechanism when I am feeling unhappy, and that isn't healthy. And I do need to find that happiness inside, rather than from my H, my kids or solely from my work. So that's a work in progress.

H is being much kinder and more attentive than he has been in a long time. I actually think he's quite exhausted and depressed now. He's in medicine, as I've said, and while there was a bit of a lull over the summer, he and his colleagues are preparing for pretty awful working hours and conditions as the winter sets in. There have been changes though - he's told me he feels depressed (rather than just letting me work it out through his grumpy snapping and nasty anger - I've not seen much of that) and he seems to be leaning towards me for support and comfort more. That is extremely new. He doesn't want anything from me that I am not prepared to give - just for me to sleep in the MB and go to bed at the same time as him (which I will do so long as he hasn't been heavily drinking) - and that's nice. Just the sense that he is turning towards his wife and family for comfort rather than blaming me / us for the pressures of his work is a massive difference. His depression means that he sleeps a lot, so other than him working or sleeping I haven't seen a lot of him. But he is making efforts in the house and with the kids and being kind and more open about what he needs, which is good.

I think the change for me is that I don't feel as afraid of him when he's obviously worn out and exhausted and depressed as I used to. I think whenever he felt like that, I'd get very brittle and tense and anxious, because the moments when he'd start to take his anger out on me felt inevitable. I guess me pulling away at those moments probably helped trigger his angry behaviour (though he's responsible for that). I also feel okay about being clear with him when I am not available for comforting or listening or when he's being irritable in a way that I'm not willing to overlook. I do want to support him, but i'm not his therapist or his mother and I need to be able to safely set a boundary with him for my own self preservation without him responding angrily. We've had that happen a few times now and it has worked well.

He has also had some working patterns rearranged, and he came to tell me he'd been put on a couple of shifts with EA woman. I'd never have known or had the ability to find this out without him telling me, and he told me he was worried about telling me in case he sparked an argument, but he didn't want there to be any secrets. His honesty there when there was no need for it other than his own motivation and conscience counted for a lot for me. I asked him how he felt being around her, and he said slightly embarrassed and awkward, and he'd prefer to work elsewhere, but they are all so busy it's not like they're having lots of conversation, and they don't have friends in common. I didn't really feel much about it - glad that he didn't want to have a secret from me, but no urge to look at his phone or question him and no difficult feelings. She just doesn't really matter to me much anymore - I'm more interested in his behaviour and looking for consistent honesty and openness from him, rather than wanting to snoop on him.

I still have moments of being very sad that the marriage that we used to have is over. It was a terrible marriage, so that doesn't quite make sense - and it is better now, though there isn't the closeness that there was in the early days. I think we're both still very cautious with each other, though most of the unpleasant behaviours from him seems to have died down over the last few weeks. We don't really have R talks, but we do talk about the future - perhaps moving to a larger house (esp. if I am working from home long term, and the possibility that the kids will be at home with us and perhaps home schooled again at some point in the future.) It's early days, but it has also been a long time since I imagined a future with him.

So that is where I am. I am looking forward to catching up with you all!

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