Piecing Myself and Not My Marriage

[AlisonUK]

This will be long. But I am going to use the guidelines from the piecing thread to do a bit of an audit on where I am now, and what changes I might want to or be ready to make.

1. I often read posters ask how they will know when their WAS/WS is coming back and what signs to look for. My response to that is usually the same, "when your S wants back in, you will see a changed person and you will know. You won't need to ask when it happens because your instincts will tell you and you will feel the change." They will come to you and show you a person that is remorseful, transparent, and they will tell you in one way or another that they want you back. Do not fall for false starts or anything less than that.

He is extremely transparent. I have access to all his devices. I don't feel the need to check, but I could if I wanted to. He says he is committed and he is with me because he wants to improve things. He didn't really engage in any sustained way with IC and does not want MC (we had a bad experience with MC earlier in our situation and I think both of us very reluctant to repeat that. He has apologised, though I don't sense remorse, more of a wish to leave the past in the past and not be reminded of it, and a sense that I don't fully understand or empathise with his reasons for his behaviour. We have made an agreement not to bring up the past, and both of us aren't that great at sticking to that agreement.

2. First and foremost, in order for piecing to happen, both partners must be willing and (at least somewhat) ready to work hard at the R. Both partners, the LBS and the WAS/WS, must commit to making the M work, must be willing to look at their own mistakes, and both must be willing to make changes, on themselves and for the M. I say "somewhat ready" because there are varying degrees of self-growth that has happened during the sitch and often the WAS/WS hasn't started that process.

I would say that I never quite got to that stage of all in 100% commitment: I was too guarded, too angry, too resentful, and too invested in being the victim and injured party. And I think because he felt so blamed and I was clearly still so hurt, he was afraid of being my emotional punch bag for the rest of his life, so he was guarded too. This is something that never quite happened 100%. I get the sense we've both had one toe in the water, constantly eyeing the other for signs of backsliding and danger. There's not a lot of trust on either side right now, though it is, day to day, much much better than it was. I do see some important changes in his actions, though there is regular lapses on his side (and mine) on the important factors.

3. I think it's also important for both partners to be humble and accept that despite doing all of the hard work, there is still a chance that they may not get the outcome they hoped for. You must commit to doing the work with this understanding in mind. Both partners must accept that they other could choose to back out at any moment and nothing is guaranteed.

I think this is a real problem for us. I know I hold myself back because I don't want to be hurt again - I never want to be as vulnerable and 'in love' as I was. I think he's probably doing some version of the same thing. I think we both assume failure and difficulty, rather than a happy ending. Part of me just wants to be able to make the leap towards him, but I have been unable to do that AND be sufficiently detached and boundaried to take care of myself and my own needs in adult ways.

4. The SLOWER you move in piecing, the better. The process cannot be rushed or forced, and in doing so you will begin to move backwards in your progress and may cause additional harm. In every piecer that I have read here, the poster says in hindsight that they moved to quickly. I would say the same for my sitch even though I made an effort not to.

Yep. We moved far too quickly from initial R talks to him moving back in. And it happened because I was afraid if I put the brakes on he's change his mind. We are where we are but I can back up this point from personal experience - slower and more boundaried would have been better.

5. The DB rules (and Sandi's rules) no longer apply when piecing happens. To be successful, there needs to be open and honest communication, you will need to initiate contact, share your process with your S, and the walls should start to come down. On the flip side, DB is a way of life now and the healthy attachments, 180s, and GAL should be adopted as a way of life moving forward.

I have been very bad at this. I keep up my GAL as best as I can. My 180s are generally good but not perfect and fall out of my view when I concentrate on his 180s (or lack of them). I don't think my walls have come down and I know his haven't. We seem to be stuck here.

6. The less personal growth (detachment, 180s, GAL) that has been done during the separation, the slower the piecing should happen, because ideally this work should have been completed beforehand. While the LBS that was reading/posting here has often started this journey, and the WAS/WS has usually not, there is still an uneven surge of emotions/anger that make this very difficult to continue simultaneously. It must be continued so you do not give all of your energy to piecing. It is too emotionally taxing.

I think we both did some personal growth during our S. Me more than him. I have continued but at a slower pace than while he was away. I am not sure about him. I don't think I know his heart well enough to comment on that. I can see that he's changed some actions, and that he struggles with changing others. I know we both still carry anger and resentment about the wounds of the past and are apt to look through those lenses at the present, which makes things very difficult.

7. It is completely normal to feel tremendous relief when your S comes back. You have been held under water and then let up for air. This feeling will subside in a matter of weeks or months, as your new reality sets in.

Yes. It has been like this. I looked forward to a new romantic marriage. There was a very short honeymoon period followed by a few arguments, then this extended coldness and caution, punctuated by poor behaviour from him and massive withdrawal from me.

8. The LBS cannot continue to hold the mistakes over the head of the WAS/WS and/or punish them. The LBS cannot continue to hold the mistakes over the head of the WAS/WS and/or punish them. The LBS cannot continue to hold the mistakes over the head of the WAS/WS and/or punish them.

I don't think I punish, but I do think I would not need so much reassurance that I was loved and desired, and feel so sore about the lack of that, if I had truly forgiven and got over the mistakes of the past.

9. The WAS/WS cannot apologize enough times for the hurt their actions have caused! For the first year of piecing, my H said he was sorry once, twice or ten times in a day. He still does apologize when things come up.

We are a year into piecing and H has been very clear, for several months now, that he isn't going to apologise or talk about the past any longer. I do understand that. I feel the same for my part in our past, though we both lapse in this area when we're in an argument.

10. It is very important during piecing that the couple have support from a third party and this should come in the form of MC. The MC should be experienced with reconciliation, betrayal and have a pro-M belief system. This can be expensive, yes, but probably nothing compared to the cost of D!

We are not in MC. I think we're both very afraid of that, actually. It's part of the general climate of careful silence that has crept into this phase of our marriage. I would be willing to do something solution focussed. I have not asked H about this, but I suspect that he would not. I believe he considers MC to be a place where I trap him in a room with a professional and wail and rant about his flaws, as that is exactly how I behaved when I forced him into MC in the aftermath of his EA.

11. Triggers are going to come from every angle and at times you least aspect them. The dull ache of piecing could be interrupted by the sharp stab of a reminder of your post BD days, and this PTSD could mentally throw you back in time. The pain and fear is indescribable. It is important to hold the belief that like any other crisis in your life, they will lessen in time and eventually disappear. Please believe this.

I no longer feel triggered. I do have that constant dull ache though. It's very sad if I think about it, and so I avoid thinking about it with GAL.

12. The LBS will think about giving up, leaving, and walking away. You may think about it often or occasionally and you may even act upon it. Just remind yourself that time is on your side and there is never a need to make a decision hastily. Do not make decisions about anything when emotions are high. In fact, you shouldn't act on emotions in general or express them all to your S. Decisions will now be made with your mind and not your heart. Your heart will continue to change, but you have made the decision to try and make this work. Give it another 6 months or couple years, you have come too far to give up now.

Yep - I feel this often. I don't think I've ever been 'all in' to this piecing, and I think my hesitation has had an effect on my H. I often feel like leaving, and I could, pretty easily, though I have not yet. I am hanging in there.

13. PATIENCE.

14. TIME.

15. Then more patience and more time.

Yes. I have this horrible feeling: when do I get to stop WORKING on my marriage and just enjoy it? I don't have an answer to that. I do enjoy most other parts of my life though, which helps. My marriage feels more like a difficult and unrewarding task than a sanctuary right now.

16. You are both juggling several things and there is no perfect way to do that. Some moments you are discussing painful topics and working through the devastation. Other times you are making sense of what was wrong with the M before and how you ended up here. You still need to take breaks from that and build a new M together! There must be days when you just do something fun and don't discuss the past.

We really have a lack of fun. I don't think we have too many R talks either. There's not much in the way of humour or intimacy. I don't really want to have more R talks or analysis: I do think we each have a fairly good understanding of what went wrong, why it happened, and what needs to change. Despite all I say about my husband's flaws, I do think we're in basic agreement about what happens when things go wrong between us, and what our contributions to this dynamic are. Fun is hard to come by when we're both so guarded and on the lookout for hurt.

17. Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves .... That is what they say. As we hold on to hard feelings we cannot move forward and it behooves us to forgive others. Most people need to have forgiveness for a successful R to happen, however how each person reaches that point is very individual and personal. I am still working on my forgiveness and it's been several years.

I definitely need more time on this. I still feel quite shocked at how my husband behaved - how frightening and traumatic it was to see him gone, and replaced by this entirely other person. A person I really hated. I still see glimpses of that other man - the nasty one - more often than I'd like - and that's what's keeping me at a distance from him.

18. Only surround yourselves with people that support your decision to R. Keep seeing your MC, your own C, read books, take walks, and do whatever you can to practice extreme self care. If anything or anyone derails you from your progress, stick it in a box to the left.

I am good at this. I have good friends. I have a faith community. I have GAL. I've done my best to keep this up during lockdown.

19. Remind yourselves that things will get easier and become more clear in time. The first few months, and possibly years, are so emotionally charged, and there are going to be set backs. It is important to accept that the path will not be linear. This does not mean that you have to quit or give up.

I need to keep this in mind. A lot of our conflict is about parenting of Eldest. He is challenging, and we may never agree, but we will also not be parents of a stroppy teenager forever.

20. Compromise is important in any M. However, neither person has to make sacrifices. If the LBS needs something, for example complete transparency, passwords, frequent reassurance, then they should say very clearly what that is. The same goes for the WAS/WS. Tell your partner what you need and what you want. In time they can either provide those things or they can't. But give them the time.

At the moment my needs for love and intimacy and safety are not met. My needs for faithfulness, transparency, financial reliability, equality in the domestic sphere and support with my career in practical terms are met. That isn't insignificant, I know, though I tend to concentrate on the coldness and forget all the other stuff, which matters too.

[may22]

Hi Alison,

This is great. I feel like it should be a prescribed step on the piecing thread-- and maybe something to do regularly, just to check and see if there has been any progress in certain areas?

As I was reading through this all sorts of ideas popped into my head but I am going to keep them to myself, for now. What struck me as I read this, and having followed you for awhile now is this-- I think there are a number of things you *could* do, if you wanted, to take steps towards addressing some of the areas where you aren't feeling 100% with your H, to potentially draw him out, etc. But... do you want to? It seems to me that one thing this all takes for granted is that your S is someone you want to stay married to, and I'm not at all sure that is the case for you. Shirley Glass talks about giving up on your M right after BD being like trying to sell your house after a flood without repairing any of the damage. Spend the time and effort to fix what can be fixed and then decide if you still want to sell. I guess the question is how much fixing do you have to do before you decide it is better to cut ties than keep going?

I feel like I know the not-so-good parts about your H, and when he helps around the house/ does acts of service/ etc. What are the great parts about him? Why did you fall in love with him in the first place? Is that H still there?

I feel like the time and patience thing is huge, really huge. You can take the time you need to decide what you want to do. At the same time, I worry that going along with the same dynamics without any changes between you two might just mean that the resentment on both your parts gets more calcified. Is that a valid concern?

[AlisonUK]

I'd like to hear your suggestions, May - I really would. I feel okay at the moment - able to protect myself, make my life as fulfilling as possible, and accept the reality that I don't have the marriage I wanted or hoped for and that is partly because of who my H is and how he treats me, and partly because of what I myself am willing to do or not do. I am not sure if I can or want to change that right now - but I would like to hear your insight on this.

[may22]

OK, I will post a bit now and try to post more later. I was trying to think of ways to draw him out of his patterns and place of fear, without pressure. Like maybe starting off doing totally silly and ridiculous things together with the kids, as a family... for instance do you have the game PieFace in the UK? It is so silly and people get whip cream in their faces but everyone cracks up like crazy. We've been playing this game called Heads Up (iPhone app) which is like a guessing/charades game and is also fun and hilarious. I feel like just setting up a way for you guys to relax and laugh together as a family would be good. Then maybe progress into things with the two of you, like watching a standup comedian once the kids to go bed, or something. From reading your old threads I feel like a date night might be too much pressure for your H, right away, but eventually date nights and even a vacation just the two of you feels like it could be really helpful.

I had more thoughts, will write more later.

[dillydaf]

Just saying hello and hoping you are ok, Alison, you seem to be in some kind of limbo again which is fine. I second may's thoughts actually. H and I did a lot of fun things for a while after we left, and it did help to enjoy things together and he did soften towards me a lot as a result. I don't know why he couldn't continue that softening and the journey back to me, but I think he was just too badly damaged to be able to have a R with me. I feel like I did everything I could from my end, which brings me a lot of peace as well as acceptance. Not sure if that's helpful to you but I hope you are enjoying life xxx

[AlisonUK]

Thanks May and Dilly.

I think you're right about the fun and humour. Life is not much fun right now. So much about this lockdown period - working mainly from home, doing all the domestic work and most of the childcare, H being away pretty much all of the time and when he is around, being tired and absent and irritable, is reminding me of the time when we were S and those were pretty much my circumstances. That isn't how it is now - he is here, he hasn't wavered really on being committed to our marriage (unless you count that time he claimed he'd contacted his solicitor, which was so obviously a lie I didn't take it seriously even at the time) and he's tired because he's working constant overtime and is on call for at least half of his off-duty hours each week. Most of the GAL stuff for me has been moved to online, which makes it feel not that much different from work, and even now things are opening up a bit now, there's so much uncertainty and still so much missing from our daily lives that I have to admit I am feeling quite depressed a lot of the time. I am struggling to be motivated. This isn't really anything to do with my marriage - this is being home alone too much, and the relentless grind of a long period of home-school and summer holidays. I am lacking the motivation to get out and see my friends - I could do that more than I do, but I just seem to feel dull and tired a lot of the time. I think H is suffering similarly - his work has really been incredibly difficult. I know he worked so so so so hard to get where he is now (the massive project he was working on pretty much exclusively during our separation has finally come to fruition, and placed him directly in the firing line for really demanding front-line covid related work) and he's not taking much pleasure in it either. We seem to function - the dishes are done, the kids are doing their school work, the laundry is done, I am doing my work and we get out in the fresh air every day. But apart from that, there's not much in the way of pleasure for anyone. I don't want to be defeatist and I know there's more I could do to help my own mood and day to day existence, and this has nothing to do with H and isn't his responsibility. I am just really really exhausted. It's been a very difficult couple of years.

[AlisonUK]

Just journalling.

I am struggling today.

I was crying last night, in the middle of the night. H woke up and asked me what was the matter. I ended up telling him how sad it made me that he was so cold, distant, unaffectionate, focussed on practical things but never really interested in spending time with me, talking with me about anything other than the house and kids, never interested in initiating sex. I should have just kept my thoughts to myself - he wasn't mean or cruel or abusive, but he did just make it all about him, and how criticised he felt. I did try to emphasise I wasn't asking him for anything, wasn't criticising him, wasn't blaming him, but that I was unhappy and I was telling him the reason why I was unhappy. But it didn't make any difference and even at the time I didn't think that it would. It didn't really spark any care or empathy from him - he didn't touch me or comfort me or speak gently with me. I just got the usual list of reasons why it isn't his fault, or why what I want is unreasonable.

I know that when I am unhappy he feels criticised. I make myself happy and meet my own needs in every single area of my life. But there's a gap for a lover and a husband in my life that is not unreasonable, and is not possible for me to fill in with friends, GAL and self care. I am not sure how to communicate that to him so we can actually talk about it, rather than us have to talk about how he feels criticised and how it isn't his fault. I understand why me telling him that how he is in this relationship does not make me feel loved, and when I feel unloved I begin to question what the point of him coming back actually was. I asked him why he wanted to come back and he said 'to work on things' and that's it. Nothing about love, or missing me, or wanting me, or wanting our future, or anything. I asked him what he wanted to work on and he said he wasn't going to be baited into a conversation where he had to pander to my needs.

I feel so alone in my marriage. I didn't say this to him, but the facts are, I earn most of the money, do most of the housework and childcare, and exist emotionally separately from him, there's no sex life unless I initiate it and most of the time the sex we do have is not pleasing for him and he isn't willing to tell me or show me what he needs to make it more pleasing for him. He will not speak about it. I don't really know what the point of him in my house actually is. I feel quite sure I could function well and be happy alone. I would be lonely for a husband but I am lonely for a husband now.

I guess it has been easier to be angry about this than sad, or to blame him or myself than sad. But today I am just sad about it. He has no interest in me or a shared life in any real way and at the moment I need to work on accepting that, and working out why I am tolerating it.

[unchien]

Alison ~

I confess I haven't followed your situation much lately, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I jumped in and read your last few posts.

First, I'm sorry to hear you are struggling and feeling sad. But I'd like to offer an alternative interpretation and see what you think. I could be way off-base, I hope you don't take offense.

You and your H have not established good communication. At some point, if and when you both are invested in working on the MR and piecing, you would benefit greatly from a really good MC to work on this.

H woke up and asked me what was the matter. I ended up telling him how sad it made me that he was so cold, distant, unaffectionate, focussed on practical things but never really interested in spending time with me, talking with me about anything other than the house and kids, never interested in initiating sex.

2x4: You initiated a middle-of-the-night R talk. When your H asked "what is the matter?" he did not mean "tell me everything that bothers you about us and me".

He wasn't mean or cruel or abusive, but he did just make it all about him, and how criticised he felt. I did try to emphasise I wasn't asking him for anything, wasn't criticising him, wasn't blaming him, but that I was unhappy and I was telling him the reason why I was unhappy. But it didn't make any difference and even at the time I didn't think that it would. It didn't really spark any care or empathy from him - he didn't touch me or comfort me or speak gently with me. I just got the usual list of reasons why it isn't his fault, or why what I want is unreasonable.

It doesn't matter what your intent was. He experienced it as criticism. Maybe your MR won't work out. Or maybe you just need a different method of communicating. This method doesn't work.

Back when my MR was better, my W would periodically open up in this way. I would start off with open ears and an open heart. But soon I would be hearing 4 or 5 things all at once that were problems. Men tend to be problem-solvers and not empathizers. It was overwhelming. What I heard was "here is a huge list of problems, and not only are they problems, but rather than solve the problems I just want you to hear me talk about them." Eventually it did just feel like criticism. I had no clue what her "request" was. I would often feel stunned into silence and the last thing I thought was "she is asking for warmth". So I'm sure I came across as a passive, cold listener when my real intent was to try to figure out how to work through our issues. It was frustrating for me, and I'm sure it was frustrating for her.

He has no interest in me or a shared life in any real way and at the moment I need to work on accepting that, and working out why I am tolerating it.

Mind-reading. You could be right, you could be wrong.

[AlisonUK]

Unchien,

thank you for this. I do see precisely what you mean. I usually avoid R talk and lie to him constantly about my real feelings as DB recommends we do (I have the bright smile and 'I'm fine!' totally perfected) but in that moment there was no hiding that I was crying and the usual 'I'm fine' wasn't going to cut it. I feel I have a choice between hiding how I feel or being honest and in that moment I was honest and it was the wrong choice.

Though lying to him all the time and pretending that this is a marriage that works for me is a kind of communication that isn't working either. I am happy in my work, with my friends, as a mother and when I am alone. I am miserably unhappy in my marriage as my basic needs for love and affection and closeness are not met. I can most definitely pick my time in communicating the extent of that, but other that keep up DBing and pretend that all is well (which my H appears to be happy with - he may or may not be, I don't know) I am not sure what my options are. We have been 'piecing' for a year, and no progress is being made, and it is because we aren't communicating at all. I was, in that moment, trying to be honest.

Of course he felt criticised. He's a pretty crappy husband to me. Why is him not feeling criticised more important than my being able to be honest about how it is for me to live with him? I am past using DB principles to treat him like a frightened dog I'm trying to lure back into my house. He's here, he's choosing to be here, he has plenty of other options and I don't stand between him and the door. But while he is here, I want openness and equality and that means that I get to tell him I am unhappy and get some of that validation I've been spoon-feeding him for months and months and months. Doesn't it?

I think this is too broken, really. And I do think he has tried. But even when he does try, it is so wooden and robotic and cold that I don't feel any desire, passion, warmth, affection, love or even - to be honest - friendly interest - in me. Never. So when he makes these practised gestures and half-hearted attempts, I can feel the desperate effort there is at play, and how much he'd rather be somewhere else. I don't trust that he does actually love me, I don't think he knows how to or wants to show love in a way that makes sense to me. Except then I remember how totally easy he found it to be warm and kind and interested in his EA woman. This isn't a man who does not know how to court or be warm and affectionate and empathic. He has those skills. I saw that very clearly.

[unchien]

Alison ~

But while he is here, I want openness and equality and that means that I get to tell him I am unhappy and get some of that validation I've been spoon-feeding him for months and months and months. Doesn't it?

DB would say no, but I get it. Functional, healthy relationships do rely on partners validating each other.

I can't pretend to know how to piece and how frustrating this must be for you. When I have strong feelings I try to step away and do something for myself. Eventually the feelings calm down and I achieve some clarity of mind, pointing me towards what I should do.

Keep venting here if you need =)