He's been very peculiar today. We had a phone call with Eldest's therapist about restarting his sessions via electronic means. She doesn't like to work that way usually, but given that the schools here probably aren't going to be back in any sustained way until September (and perhaps only part time hours then...) we managed to have a discussion about it and got an appointment for Eldest via electronic means next week.
H wanted me to know that he was concerned that his own views and feelings on the extent and severity of Eldest's behaviour (according to him) weren't being noted. Apparently the reception on the line was too bad and it was too tiring for him to actually verbalise these concerns. He said he was worried that Eldest was going to say lots of mean things about him, and that the therapist would be working on 'uncorrected information'.
My own opinion is that Eldest is extremely angry with his father because he thinks that he favours Youngest. And I believe he's every right to feel those feelings, he probably has a point, and that though the anger comes out in inappropriate ways, he need some space and validation to work through it. I know in my attempts to repair our marriage I have not validated Eldest as well as I could have done - I thought getting out from between them might help. I want to seek advice from Eldest's therapist as to what is the best course of action in Eldest's best interests - to validate his feelings or to keep away from the topic. I don't care about protecting my marriage but I do care about helping Eldest to work through this. I didn't say any of that to H as it is my problem - my parenting decision - and not one I'm interested in his opinion on or need his help with.
I said, 'isn't that what you're doing, given you haven't engaged with the therapist at all before, didn't say anything of this on the phone, and didn't even ask the question about it? You're assuming what Eldest is going to say, assuming how the therapist will respond, and basing your concerns on that, rather than 'information' that you chose not to get when we were speaking on the phone with her?'
In response, he did his eye rolling and sniggering thing again. I said, 'surely your feelings about your relationship with Eldest are something you'd address in your own therapy?' and he didn't answer, just turned the volume up on the television. I said 'it's very clear to me that you aren't capable of having a rational conversation when someone disagrees with you. If there's something you wanted to say to the therapist and you didn't, that's really nothing to do with me.' More eye rolling and sniggering - like a child - so I cut it short.
I feel like my eyes are wide open here. It's more of the same - he doesn't like the view he imagines Eldest takes on their relationship, but he also isn't willing or able to speak rationally to the person involved - the therapist. And he isn't willing to accept that two people can have different views on the same situation, and that be okay. There are the 'facts' - his experience - and everyone else's opinions, which he needs the chance to 'correct.' Instead of either respecting the autonomy of others, or speaking up for himself, he wants to whine at me about it. Ordinarily, I'd just make nice listening noises or validate him, but I don't want to do that any more as it was costing me too much to pretend I was in conversation with an adult when he so clearly isn't.
He's stomping around now, making it clear he is displeased. I think the net is closing on him - he doesn't have this energy from me that he used to have - or a silence he can interpret as agreement. He's being expected to participate as an adult and a father, if not a partner, and the fact he can't manage that is being clearly exposed. And I spoke to him with great calm and respect and in a quiet tone - so he can't even make something up about me being hysterical without looking totally irrational.
I wish we weren't in lockdown. I feel ready to make some big changes but it just isn't practically possible for me to do more than I have right now. His imaginary solicitor's appointment (this morning, apparently) mysteriously evaporated, so that was more manipulative and escalating behaviour rather than a man acting to advocate in his own legal interests at the end of a relationship.
Oh A, I have been checked out in my own grief, but following along to your story with so much admiration. You have so much inner wisdom and ability to self-reflect, I don't feel worthy of giving you any advice. Other than to say the road from self-reflection to self-actualization is long and lurching and you deserve a lot of self-love in this process, whatever and however that needs to materialize. Hang on to those moments of clarity you have been experiencing and recall them when you are in the actual figurative or literal battle field.
And just to revisit the past a little bit with you... your story about PND and the dynamic that was born with your youngest: please don't spend too much time owning your role in that narrative. Yes, you allowed a certain interplay to develop in your R during that time, but during times of mental illness, we should be able to rely on the 'healthier' of the two halves in a R to help pull us out on to the other side. Instead, your H allowed himself to give birth to the 'true' him when you were at your most vulnerable. He took advantage of your weakness and gave himself permission to do this. And when you came out the other side through the unfolding of your personal growth in your M, he remains stuck. You didn't ask for him to become who he is and you are not responsible for him becoming so. That's on him. We are all flawed, we are all human, but as long as one of us remain 'fixed' and the other lives in 'growth' there is no hope. You can't clap with one hand, as May said. I am writing this while needing to take my own advice on a similar scenario in my own sitch.
Thank you Sage. I've been reading along with you too. This is a bumpy road for so many of us and it is really hard to keep steady when the person we are connected to is wobbling and lurching so much. It's like they are drowning, and grabbing on to us to keep afloat. We can't get them out of the water, and there's no virtue in letting them take us down with them. I guess that's what detachment is - getting yourself out of the water and to a place of safety and if you can, hoping - with love - that the WH or W gets out of the water too. Whether they end up on the same side of the river as you are is up to them, of course.
I am updating again, mainly because it keeps me in a place of steadiness. H was leaving the house this morning and I asked him if he'd put sun cream on youngest. Not with any 'tone' - just for information, as I'd do it if he hadn't before we left the house. H went into a mini-rant, on the doorstep, listing all the things he'd done that morning. He often does this - I'll ask for information, he'll take it as some kind of criticism and come out on the attack. I waited for him to finish then said, 'you're defending yourself against an entirely imaginary attack. I just wanted to know if I needed to do the suncream, or not?' and he stopped off, shaking his head and muttering.
A couple of texts this morning - phrases included 'you're not allowed to speak to me like that' and 'don't you dare speak to me like that' - again, this is the sort of thing I'd usually ignore or pacify in the sake of peace. Instead, I said, 'when you are being defensive and argumentative without cause I will point it out. You speak freely and so will I and we will see where we are.' He carried on issuing me instructions via text as to how or when I was 'allowed' to speak to him (he loves that word - and hasn't grasped that I am not in his control - or his tantrums are about how he feels when he realises I am not in his control) and I finally said 'I won't listen to you give me these type of controlling instructions. I am blocking you from being able to send me any more messages until this evening.' Then I did.
He really doesn't grasp that a boundary isn't about controlling my behaviour. I have no wish to control his - I was just sick and tired of having to be Stepford Wife for the sake of peace, so I've decided to call it as I see it when I feel like it. He clearly can't cope with that. Without wanting to mind read, I suspect there will be either sulking or ranting tonight (he seems to have only two settings) so I've arranged to go out on a socially distanced walk with a friend of mine, which should give him time to get some beer inside him and go to sleep.
I feel calm and strong. I have no wish to control or provoke him - I just am done with having to pretend to go along with his nonsense for the sake of peace. For the time being, that means no closeness and love and affection for me (which there wasn't much of anyway - his withdrawal used to be so hurtful and I let my fear of it control me, but now it's just a slightly more exaggerated version of business as usual) and no punch bag for him. I'm kind of curious to see how this turns out, given that he's already threatened to see a solicitor, and the imaginary appointment he ostentatiously claimed to be having mysteriously evaporated. He doesn't really have any place to go now. Emotionally I mean, and in the games and bids for control he makes - there's no positive outcome for him in any of his controlling behaviours. Of course he can physically go if he wants to - and that would be fine with me. I don't plan on moving out but neither do I plan on living long term with Mr Sulking McBeer or Mr Ranty McTantrum. I'll see how things pan out during the summer with the estate agents valuation and talk to my mortgage broker again - I can buy him out of the house without too much difficulty but have been legally advised (when I called the solicitor the other day) it's a bad idea to do that without a legal divorce agreement.
Gosh, Alison, lots of developments. Except in your H's behaviour. Mr Ranty McTantrum describes my H's behaviour a lot of the time in the past. It's extraordinarily difficult to deal with someone who is incapable of self reflection and whose default setting is lashing out and not apologising afterwards. Your H sounds in a bad place. You sound as centred as you can be. I identify so much with the drowning person analogy. Important not to get sucked into their vortex of hurt, that's what detachment is.
Yeah. I read back over my old threads (some of them) last night, trying to see if this was just a lock-down thing (he is working a lot, and it's difficult and traumatic work) or it was an 'us' thing. Charitably, the man is exhausted and getting next to no time to himself and that's extremely hard for him. It's also not an excuse for him reverting to behaviour that destroyed our marriage and tipped over the scale into abuse. So he doesn't get a pass. He could move out into hospital accommodation if he wanted peace and space and wasn't coping with family life. Reading back over my old threads, it's also just confirmed for me that for a while, there was more peace and we were making progress, but little to none of my emotional needs were being met, and while I thought that was because of my boundaries, it was actually because he can't be close to what he can't control, and I was getting really really resentful at having to button my lip in the face of his irrational behaviour. I feel pretty sorry for him today. He's blocked on my phone so he's sent me a couple of emails instead, which I have deleted unread (the subject line is enough to see that it is more ranting and not an emergency I need to respond to.) He's really suffering today, and what has caused this suffering is me respectfully pointing out he's being unreasonable, and refusing to toe the line when he says I'm not allowed to do it.
Alison: I spent so many years making excuses for my H's poor behaviour. He was working too hard, he had this stress or that stress or this thing going on or he hadn't got enough sleep or blahblahblah. It's one thing to make reasonable allowances for bad behaviour and someone going through a rough patch. It's another thing to spend years letting them justify being a crap partner and parent. I was definitely complicit in allowing H to give excuse after excuse and even making some of them on his behalf. At some stage they have to take responsibility for their emotions and the impact of those on others. Your H really needs some decent therapy...
Yeah - I had another IC session yesterday. I cried a lot, coming to the realisation that peace in my house relies on my swallowing my opinions and needs and making lots of excuses for H's behaviour. At one point the therapist said, 'what has kept you in the marriage?' and I said 'I'd hoped that things would be different, that if I made changes the dynamic itself would change, and we'd both be happier' and she said 'you have made changes, and your H isn't happier, and how he deals with being unhappy is something you can choose to live with, or not.' She went on to say he may very well make changes of his own - nobody is incapable of change - but she also said it was possible he'd carry on in the same way for the next decade, the next thirty years. I don't know which of these is more likely and I can't say that I am entirely without hope - I wish I could strangle out that hope so I could leave very decisively and without sadness - but I do know when she said 'decade, the next thirty years' my blood ran cold. If I waste my life on this, that's on me and I will be responsible for it. I think I am nearly ready to leave - or rather, start the legal stuff so that he can leave.
Changing yourself is HARD. Changing someone else is impossible. Everyone on here learns that eventually through bitter experience. What do you have to lose if you file for D? What do you have to gain? Maybe filing for D might be what wakes him up (probably not, but you could hope for that whilst still being ok with the alternative). Giving up hope is the hardest thing of all, I really empathise with that. But maybe you can reframe it as 'this is the best thing for me right now and I'm only closing the door so it's ajar, not slamming it in his face'. You can stand for your marriage and you can file for D. I've realised that the two things are not mutually exclusive. If filing for D is the healthiest thing for you then do it, it does not necessarily mean giving up on your marriage completely. Have a hug, this stuff is tough. The fact that 50% of marriages end in D is astonishing to me, how can society function with this level of pain going on inside so many people for so many years?
That's a good question, Dilly. Filing for D would not substantially change my life if he is unwilling to move out until we have a financial settlement, which would involve me buying him out of the house (I'd rather not sell it and move, and he can't afford to buy me out). I'm unwilling to buy him out of the house without a divorce as it would be financial madness. If I really really really need him to be out of the house and he is refusing, then I will have to file and grit my teeth until the finances are sorted and he leaves. Which at the moment - with lockdown and mortgage brokers being so cautious - might take longer than is needed. I've kind of decided I will get my ducks in row with finances and the paperwork, look at mortgage options, and take some financial advice as to what mortgage options would look like in six months. I can cope with him being Mr Sulky McBeer for as long as he feels like it - but if Ranty McTantrum makes more regular appearances then I will have to be more decisive. (And if Mr Sexting-With-25-Year-Olds comes out to play again, I'll probably have to bury him under the patio (JOKE))
This idea of 'standing' I am not sure of. I think I 'stood' through all kinds of abuse, and even since he came back I've been 'standing' or at least waiting for the kind of marriage I want. I think it might be happier for me to pull the plug entirely and get out there in the world and see if there's a loving, passionate, interesting person out there waiting for me. There might not be, but if there isn't I'd be no worse off than I am now - and probably significantly better in several ways that are increasingly important to me.
I finally come over to the boards and read this thread and can I just say, "YAS QUEEN!" (clap clap clap). Your strength, resolve and calmness is very refreshing to read! I believe that all of your hard work and determination over the years has led you to this point. Can you see that? There are these cycles of grief that vary for everyone and I think similarly there are cycles in the deaths of our marriage. We come to this site in the throws of disaster and we all want to know how to get to the end game. There isn't a short cut. We can't bypass the steps and hard work. By "end game" I dont mean saving the M necessarily, but I mean a mental place of genuine understanding, confidence, and detachment. This is the place where we can be our best self and make good, solid, decisions. I believe that you are there. You have worked hard and I have seen (read) it. Now you can see more clearly what you want in an intimate partner and how you deserve to be treated by an H. This guy right here and his abusive baby, ridiculous tantrums is NOT IT. And this is his huge loss!
You keep forward on your journey and your rewards will be plentiful! I know you can do it. Congratulations on the job promotion. You have so much to celebrate and look forward to! :-)))
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
