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I really need some help today. I am so incredibly furious. I have work to get on with, and we're in the house together today. There are no cafes open and my workplace is locked up and closed so I need to get a hold of myself, get on with my work, and tolerate being in the same house as him today.

I spoke to him briefly this morning. I've contacted my solicitor and asked for a telephone appointment and also emailed three estate agents to get a valuation on the house. I told him this, and told him I'd waited long enough for him to take responsibility for his abusive behaviour, and I was done, and I suggested he got his own solicitor. I told him I didn't love him any more, and it wasn't because we had disagreements or differences of opinion, it was because he had the emotional maturity of a child and I was done hearing about how his behaviour was always someone else's fault. He smirked at me. I told him I realised I couldn't kick him out of the house, but from now on he would be sleeping somewhere other than in our bed, and that I wasn't doing his washing or cooking for him. I didn't shout - I was icy calm - and he just stood there making himself a coffee and smirking at me then went into the next room to joke around with Youngest.

I've taken off my wedding rings. I feel like gathering up his stuff and throwing it onto the street, which I am not going to do.

I know I cannot convince or threaten or frighten him into treating me with love and respect, and I know that the reason he can't has nothing to do with how worthy of love and respect I am. I also know that we're not going to get to a place where he sees this through my eyes, and any attempts I make to get him to see that are likely to inflame the situation. I need to accept the reality of my situation - I have been choosing to be in relationship with a man incapable of giving me what is essential to me - and while I have stopped most but not all of the manipulative and pursuing behaviours, I have been quietly resenting him for his shortcomings.

I don't think this is a matter of my needing to drop my expectations. I think this is a case of me having perfectly reasonable needs and being sick and tired of having to pretend I am okay with them not being met. I am not okay with it, and it is now time to act.

I want to put one last thing down here so I don't forget. This big work news. It is something I have been working towards for over a year. It was extremely difficult, and I was working on it during our separation and just as he returned. I was extremely ambivalent about telling him about it, and also putting myself forward for it. The reason why was because - and I am feeling ashamed to admit this - I knew if I was successful there would be an award ceremony in my industry, a kind of public event, and I felt so sad about the idea of there being no loving partner there in the front row cheering me on. I think I did share this with him at some point - which made me feel so vulnerable and needy and stupid - and he was, at the time, very reassuring that he would be there for me.

When I got the news I had been successful, I went and told him, and he stared at me blankly and said, 'I don't know what to say about that.' I went and did my meditation class online then went and spoke to some friends online. I thought that he was probably feeling a bit envious because of his own recent work disappointment and needed some time to process. That's not pretty, but it is also entirely human and forgivable. So I gave him space. When I went back into the room he was in a few hours later, he was lying on the sofa sleeping after getting drunk. I went to bed that night instead of feeling pleased or proud or happy about my achievements, feeling entirely unloved and disregarded, and having to do all the emotional work to process that. When I look back on this moment, what I will remember is not sharing happy news with a loved one, but his blank face and withdrawal.

Last edited by AlisonUK; 06/19/20 06:51 AM.
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His responses should reassure you that you have nothing to work with here.

I’m so sorry that your achievement was tainted. You deserved better.

It probably doesn’t mean much, but I am here for whatever help you need.


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Oh Alison,

I want to echo both Sage and Scout. You are wise and strong and resourceful and capable. For what it's worth, from a total outsider's perspective, I think you've truly thought this through and you know you are doing the right thing for yourself and your family.

And, I am here for you too, whatever you need.

I am sure he must have some good qualities for you to have married him, but from what you've shared here, they seem to be buried. He has a lot of work to do to be capable of a healthy R with anyone. I am sure once you and the children get some space, you'll feel far, far better.

Also, in terms of your work success-- you ARE loved and valued, and I hope with time your memory of sharing the news first goes to the friends you told online, or how proud you felt when you got the news, not of your sad H snoring away.

Now I'll ask you something you've asked me recently-- how can you be kind to yourself right now? I'm guessing it is now the end of your workday. Can you find some sort of self-care mechanism to indulge in for a bit? Get out of the house for a long walk? Anything you can do to help yourself find some space and warmth.

Hugs, Alison.


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Originally Posted by Allison
This big work news. It is something I have been working towards for over a year. It was extremely difficult, and I was working on it during our separation and just as he returned.. I knew if I was successful there would be an award ceremony in my industry, a kind of public event, and I felt so sad about the idea of there being no loving partner there in the front row cheering me on.

Allison, congratulations on your achievement. It sounds like you worked hard and did this all on your own, and you will have many people clapping for you, even if MrBlankExpression is a dork.

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Thank you all for your kindness - CWarrior and May and Scout. I really appreciate them such a lot.

So, weirdly enough - H has announced that he has had an initial phone consultation with a solicitor and is getting the paperwork sent through to him. This man has never filled out a form in his life without hand-holding and careful supervision, so this will be interesting. I texted him the details of my solicitor and said he was free to have anything he wanted dealing with in terms of practicalities sent there and given this was a legal process, neither his or my opinions on it mattered that much at the moment, only the facts and figures, and I would be letting the solicitors deal with that.

He also said that he wanted Eldest to see a therapist. Eldest was seeing a therapist until lockdown, and will be starting again soon as the schools re-open. I reminded him of that. I also reminded him that the therapist had given us very specific suggestions for setting boundaries around angry behaviour, had said that Eldest's challenging behaviour was totally in the realms of normal for a boy his age, and that it was a systemic problem caused by the variance in our parenting and that is why we'd both been invited to participate in the conversations. I reminded him that H had refused to come to any of the meetings or talk to the therapist on the phone, and that he'd rejected all the suggestions and said that he'd preferred to parent 'on instinct'.

These are things i would normally keep to myself in the sake of peace, but I think if I have to speak to him, I am only going to tell the truth from now on and that means not going along with the self-serving, passive aggressive fictions he needs to me to collaborate in. Because I calmly disagreed with him and he does not like that, he started with another of his tantrums and started with the mocking impressions of me crying (I wasn't crying - I was stone cold calm and if I had an expression on my face, it would have been a mixture of boredom and contempt) and when he started up with that, I laughed at him and then left the house with the dog for a couple of hours.

It's actually very freeing not to feel like I need to constantly fake deference to him so he feels good, and I can just live my own truth - which is I will respect him as a human being, communicate civilly, and when it is appropriate, speak my truth. He consistently exaggerates everything - Eldest refusing to do a household chore and slamming the door as he leaves the room (which is not acceptable behaviour) turns into - in his father's eyes - 'screaming and shouting and ruining the day' and my saying 'if you ask me a question then you need to let me answer' turns into me being 'hysterical' - his lies and exaggerations are things I've let pass too, understanding that perhaps he is just so sensitive to conflict that it really feels that way to him, and I should validate his experience. But I don't care to validate his nonsense any more: what is actually happening is that he doesn't seem to be able to cope with living with people he can't control. Youngest has a very easy going nature, and is of course a much younger child. When she gets older and has her own mind, I am sure H will find that threatening too. I believe - and I know I've said this before - he mistakes anything other than obedience to his wishes to be my controlling him, and that is because he does not have the skills and control over his own emotions to have a conversation about collaborative solutions, and he does not have the humility to change his course or take feedback once his mind is made up on something. I believe our marriage collapsed because in his passive aggression he swallowed his own needs, didn't speak for them and resented my not meeting them. And because when he left that space, I moved forward and filled it with my own stuff. I am more intelligent and articulate than he is, more confident, and more relationship-focussed. When he moved back in, my hope was that I would pull back and take care of more of my own needs, and that he'd take responsibility for speaking up for his own needs and involving himself in the myriad conversations, compromises and negotiations that make up family life. I think in his heart of hearts he doesn't want to do that, or doesn't have the skills to do it and doesn't have the humility to learn them. My truth at the moment is that I think he's an enormous child who isn't happy and isn't willing to take action to make changes to make himself happy, and wants to shout at Mommy. And Mommy isn't going to be shouted at any longer.

Given that I am more intelligent, capable, confident and articulate than he is, and given that over the past year or so I've got really good at opening up my life to my friends, meeting my own needs, and setting my boundaries, he isn't going to know what has hit him when I stop inviting him to collaborate and start going my own way, living in the best interests of myself and my kids, and ignoring his tantrums. I suspect he will massively escalate, but I am prepared to have him removed from the house, levering the time I had to call the police on him two years ago (which I have a record of, as does my solicitor) if necessary. I don't feel scared of him, but if I have to use that, I will.

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Alison ~ I can only imagine how hard this process is for you. At the same time... Wow... you are so composed and balanced amid the difficult circumstances. I think you have the perfect detached mindset and approach, including having a plan for the worst-case.

Your kids are so lucky to have you as their mom. Your H may be an emotional child, but you are showing them the way to handle life with confidence and emotional maturity. That doesn't happen in many "happy" marriages.

I wouldn't be surprised if your H continues with the mocking. Even when we change our behavior, they are wearing such thick lenses they can only see what they want to see. For your kids' sake, I hope your H eventually can get a handle on his anxiety (and his need to control to reduce his anxiety).

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Thanks, Unchien. I appreciate that.

I wouldn't be surprised if he continues with it either. We've gone through phases with this. His anger expressed in childish ways used to terrify me, and I'd placate him or admit fault or make empty promises to improve or blow up and match it with tears and anger of my own. Then he moved out, and after a lot of door-mattish and pursuing behaviour on my part, which made him and our situation worse for everyone, I just set some cast-iron boundaries and made to move on, and he started to show some progress. Then he moved in, and there was some collaboration and adult conversations, but where things are very difficult (his feelings - I would guess - of anxiety and inadequacy that result in being asked to change or adjust his parenting style, and take into consideration the needs and opinions of others, and balance those with his own) he reverts to type. And in this phase, wanting to give things a chance, and let him go on his own journey with his therapy (which he abandoned) and his changes (which he could not sustain) I left the room rather than be subject to his tantrums, which did protect me from them, but it means nothing was resolved, and he didn't get the resolution he wanted. So with nothing being resolved, his resentment at not getting what he wants is building again - as is his withdrawal and passive aggressive and childish tantruming behaviour.

He has choices here, of course - he can collaborate like an adult, or he can leave - but it seems he's unable or unwilling to collaborate like an adult. He knows full well that this is unacceptable to me, but I don't think he has ever heard me say - calmly and without expectations it will 'improve' his response - that the status quo is now over.

I feel very calm and strong. I was so worried that my leaving the room and refusing to engage with his nonsense was putting a barrier between us, and halting the progress on repairing our marriage. Now I see that repairing our marriage takes two willing and able partners, and I accept that is not on my menu of options. What is in my power is to choose to put up with it, go back to my old behaviours, or to end the relationship. I am choosing to end things. I'll take the next practical steps in my own time and in my own way.

When I did this while we were separated it really triggered him into doing some self reflection and coming back. I'm not interested in a marriage where I have to irregularly start divorce proceedings in order to inspire adult behaviour in him. And at the very best case scenario, that's what he has to offer me. It isn't enough, and it has never been enough. My priority now is myself and my children. I'm both prepared for his escalation tactics, and entirely uninterested by them.

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Quote
But I don't care to validate his nonsense any more: what is actually happening is that he doesn't seem to be able to cope with living with people he can't control. Youngest has a very easy going nature, and is of course a much younger child. When she gets older and has her own mind, I am sure H will find that threatening too. I believe - and I know I've said this before - he mistakes anything other than obedience to his wishes to be my controlling him, and that is because he does not have the skills and control over his own emotions to have a conversation about collaborative solutions, and he does not have the humility to change his course or take feedback once his mind is made up on something. I believe our marriage collapsed because in his passive aggression he swallowed his own needs, didn't speak for them and resented my not meeting them. And because when he left that space, I moved forward and filled it with my own stuff. I am more intelligent and articulate than he is, more confident, and more relationship-focussed.


Alison, we married the same man. Once the dust settles from this, know that there is immeasurable peace and contentment in living an authentic life. Men like our Hs will never live an authentic life. They are incapable.

In my situation, the escalation tactics were just hot air. My X made a lot of noise about taking my house and fighting me for custody, and then collapsed like an overcooked noodle when I held my (reasonable and legally informed) position.

If I may recommend a book for you, I'd suggest 'Why Does He Do That' by Lundy Bancroft. There's a PDF version online. It really helped me understand the abusive dynamic in my marriage. Goodreads has a great collection of quotes if you can't be arsed to read the whole book (it is quite long, but engrossing all the same).

Quote
YOUR ABUSIVE PARTNER DOESN’T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIS ANGER; HE HAS A PROBLEM WITH YOUR ANGER.

One of the basic human rights he takes away from you is the right to be angry with him. No matter how badly he treats you, he believes that your voice shouldn’t rise and your blood shouldn’t boil. The privilege of rage is reserved for him alone. When your anger does jump out of you—as will happen to any abused woman from time to time—he is likely to try to jam it back down your throat as quickly as he can. Then he uses your anger against you to prove what an irrational person you are. Abuse can make you feel straitjacketed. You may develop physical or emotional reactions to swallowing your anger, such as depression, nightmares, emotional numbing, or eating and sleeping problems, which your partner may use as an excuse to belittle you further or make you feel crazy.


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Hi Alison,

You are an incredible inspiration. Truly. I feel like you don't need anyone to tell you how incredible you are because you know it to your very bones but... you are. Strong and smart and thoughtful and giving and so, so wise. Man. Your kids are so lucky. Sending you a virtual hug. I want my daughters to grow up to be like you.

xoxo M


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
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Oh my Scout. I have read that book before, but the quotation you posted really really leapt out at me.

I know when Youngest was born I was angry all the time, and behaved appallingly, and basically trained my H to soothe me constantly or face the consequences. It wasn't my intention, I was very sick with very severe PND and while I wish I'd sought treatment earlier, I really had no insight into how sick I was until it had been going on for a year. H then, I guess in his own buried resentment and anger, developed all these passive-aggressive behaviours, I responded to them in childish ways, and we got locked into a pattern that was all about anger and the expression of it. I remember this really clear moment while we were S, and he looked me in the eye and said, very tearfully, 'my wife died when Youngest was born and I miss her.' And I do think there's some truth in that. I turned into a different person overnight, and in response, he made a slow change of his own. And as I've recovered and grown stronger, I'm a much more self sufficient and assertive person than I ever was before Youngest was born. It is very sad.

But yes, when I'm angry now - generally totally reasonably and as a response to the %^* he puts my way, he responds with near GLEE - how well I am confirming the narrative that I'm some crazy hysteric and he's a noble victim! It makes me laugh now, because he's been desperately fight picking again today, and I've either been mildly ignoring him or openly laughing at him. I have a right to my anger, and to work through it as I wish while respecting the boundaries of others.

And May - thank you for your kind words. I don't want to have a heart as hard as this for my whole life. And under all this assertiveness and coldness I am of course sad and worried about what the future will look like. I'm just not willing to make decisions from that place anymore. I hope very much to one day have someone in my life that I can trust, as you trust, and be gentle and kind with, as you are. That isn't there for me right now and I accept that, but I don't want to get calcified in this state either.

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