A year on and standing 2

[ToSmile]

Hi Wayfarer, Steve,

I am still visiting the IC but as of now, I think the purpose of what she can do for me is more of a listening ear or someone whom I am able to talk to, knowing much of the details.

At the current stage that I am at, I may be thinking of moving on more by myself as I feel it's hard for me to speak to another IC and repeating everything all over. It's tiring to even recall haha.

From my experience with my current IC, she always prompt me questions which, I have thought over myself and know what my replies are. I am looking for some experience and advices on what I can do now and how perhaps I can move on and embrace a better tomorrow than today.

That's why I feel I am getting much better information and advices here than the time I spent at the IC which most of the time after the session, I walked out, felt like having a drink as I felt drained when she asked me how have things been between me and my wife? How is she? Are we talking or is she still treating me in a hostile manner? Etc. After I narrate, she just went "oh haha that's bad, probably she might be feeling this/that etc". I mean it's really more like listening to what I said and acknowledging my feeling that's all. And every time when I share those details, it's like to go through what happened again.

The reason I am still following up is also because through the same center, I got the ICs for my kids so primarily during my sessions, I will check about the kids well being. Thus at times, I am not looking forward to the session as well and I only meet her up once every 2 months.

Now I am looking at activities or hobby groups that I can join to direction my attention and focus. Something to keep me more busy, feel productive and look forward to. I need to weave back my social life with others that I have given up much over these years as well.

[Traveler]

Just like over the weekend, she brought the kids for staycation with her family. So I managed to go out to meet up with my friends. On the second night, she called and told me that the younger one was not feeling well and like to return home. What I can do is to be there for my kids when they need me and feel happy spending time with them. I was not angry about the episode as well but in fact happy that I am able to see my younger one earlier.

Props for this--you were out socializing with friends (GAL), and you also prioritized caring for your son, for your son. These are smart decisions, ToSmile, the kind not everyone makes after BD.

[SteveLW]

ToSmile, the beauty of how this works is that you get decide for yourself! I can continue to talk about the importance of IC, and you can continue to ignore it and decide that IC isn't for you. Happens a lot on this forum.

But you keep talking about how this particular IC wasn't helping you as if a) you cannot change to a different IC, and/or b) all ICs are the same. What I am trying to get you to see is that all ICs are not the same, there are good ones and bad ones, and if the one you currently have isn't working for you then move to a new one.

But it is entirely up to you! wayfarer and I are simply trying to help, but we are just strangers on the internet.

[ToSmile]

Cwarrior,

The chaps are definitely my priorities. There is a time for everything but I know they are growing up fast and this is when they need the attention from us. So no qualms for me. And I am glad that my friends share their understanding thus we had been bunch of buddies for coming to 30 years.

SteveLW,

Don't get me wrong. I definitely appreciate the comments from you and wayfarer. I think perhaps I might not express it well.

My current IC might have been good for me previously as she was also a lending ear for support. But overtime, I think it just stays at that. True I could have changed an IC but then again, what held me back was the high fees that would be slapped on me. And anyway at this point in time, I think I have "Move out" of that phase which the IC could have helped me. I think I am in a phase which I welcome another kind of support, from GAL, Socializing and maybe Hobby Groups than talking about my marriage problem and see how I can work on it because, I don't want to work on it for now. I just want to work on myself.

Maybe I should get another IC that helps me to move from my current spot? I am not sure. But I feel it's kinda daunting to repeat the history to another person where I came from and how I ended up here. Thus that is something that is holding me back from seeing another IC. I have not cancelled my future sessions with this IC. I am still following up with her with regards to the children. Maybe for the next session, I would tell her how I feel like moving forth from here and also see what she says.

I feel I am re-entering a work in process period of my DB again, after the exchange I had with you and LH last week. I am taking my time to think and consider where I move on from here, at the same time reminding myself that I can only control myself and no one else. But one thing in my mind I know I look forward to do is, increase my social circle and GAL more.

I really appreciate your help. In fact, I see you'll as my "Virtual ICs" rather than strangers The comments and guidance I receive here benefits me much better than what I had received from my IC sessions. So keep them coming.

Yesterday night we went out for dinner together to celebrate one of the boy's birthday. Even though we threw a small birthday party over the weekend, the birthday boy requested for a celebration that involved us only thus the dinner occasion. Though she came along, the whole evening she was pulling a long face but I couldn't care much. I just focus on ensuring the boys having a good time. When I look at the group photo the restaurant took of us as part of their complimentary service, her expression and body language shows that she was so uncomfortable in the photo and was like a total misfit. But anyway, that's just her. But it does feel psychological to me though haha because I don't think I would take a photo with such expression and language beside someone unless they had not shower for a year and stink as hell?

After dinner, she brought the boys to a photo booth to take some candid sticker photos. Well since she never asked me to join in, I just stick around and wait for them to finish taking the photos. While waiting for them, some thoughts came to my mind perhaps it's better and much more relief for me if D is proceeded. Because if it's so horrible for her and it's so tough for me, what's the point to stand further?

Just a feeling seeding in me because from the family photo taken in the restaurant, her expression and body language was totally overkill to me, like she was avoiding some plague subconsciously. I was not even beside her, the kids were and we were sitting in a single file with both of us at one end to another. I can't imagine she was suggesting we remain friends / housemates and co-parent the kids under the same roof after D if she is already behaving like that when we took a photo together haha.

[SteveLW]

After dinner, she brought the boys to a photo booth to take some candid sticker photos. Well since she never asked me to join in, I just stick around and wait for them to finish taking the photos. While waiting for them, some thoughts came to my mind perhaps it's better and much more relief for me if D is proceeded. Because if it's so horrible for her and it's so tough for me, what's the point to stand further?

Just a feeling seeding in me because from the family photo taken in the restaurant, her expression and body language was totally overkill to me, like she was avoiding some plague subconsciously. I was not even beside her, the kids were and we were sitting in a single file with both of us at one end to another. I can't imagine she was suggesting we remain friends / housemates and co-parent the kids under the same roof after D if she is already behaving like that when we took a photo together haha.

ToSmile, I am sure some of this is your own insecurities and being overly sensitive to her body language, etc because of the situation. Totally normal. We start to put significance on the insignificant. I did the same thing. "Oh she is sitting next to me, she likes me! Oh she chose a spot away from me, we are still getting a D!" LBSs become body language experts post BD!

I am sure she was torn. She has essentially sad she doesn't want to be a family anymore, yet here she is doing a family outing. Part of her was enjoying it, part of her was thinking "how did I get myself into this situation?" It is very typical for the WAS during limbo to agree to things like this family dinner, and then do whatever they can to show you that they aren't happy being there.

Here is the thing, if you picked up on it I am sure your kids did too. This is why I repeat the mantra "Kids would rather be from a broken home than in a broken home." The learnings your kids are getting from you and your STBXW right now are how NOT to be a married couple. I know you've talked about having the kids in IC and that is great. But limbo is as hard on the kids as it is on couple. I know in my own situation my daughter, who was a teenager at the time, went through a period where her behavior deteriorated, especially in relation to me, and the period of limbo and for a time after we started piecing and reconciling was the worst period of behavior of her life.

We didn't tell her anything that was going on, but she detected it. My wife, due to some behavioral issues after we were in reconciliation, took her phone away from her. In perusing the phone we saw messages to her friends where she was saying things like "I don't know what is going on with my family right now". She was definitely picking up on cues, many of the same cues I was, and it was having an effect on her.

Likely the "request" from your son for a dinner with just the family for his birthday was because he too is detecting that something isn't right. Your sitch has gone on for quite a while, and WASs tend to become less tolerant and more demonstrative over time. I would say at your kids current ages there is no way that they don't detect and note the same things that you do.

Have you considered the damage that is being done to the kids by your "willingness" to hang on for this long? I know this is back to beating the dead horse of having an exit strategy. But this long limbo isn't good for any of you, your WAS included. And it seems things are getting worse over time, not better.

[LH19]

But it does feel psychological to me though haha because I don't think I would take a photo with such expression and language beside someone unless they had not shower for a year and stink as hell?

This is how she feels right now. AS likes to post a quote from Cersei on Game of Thrones "Every breath you draw in my presence annoys me." That's how she feels about you right now. The only thing that can change that is time and space.

I can't imagine she was suggesting we remain friends / housemates and co-parent the kids under the same roof after D if she is already behaving like that when we took a photo together haha.

Typical LBS mistake. Holding on to every word spoken by a WW. My guess is right now there is no OM. So this offer stands until there is one and there will be if she looks hard enough. Then she will be gone quicker then you can say "what happened"?

Expect many more years of this if you stay status quo.

[ToSmile]

A long weekend away for Labour Day celebration where we are.

You are right Steve that we tends to take cues from their body language and become "Expert Interpreter" of such. However how she is behaving isn't affecting me in the sense that it bothers me but I just thought why is she making things hard for her self in this manner?

She can excuse herself if she does not feel like coming. It's not the first time she misses out on such family occasions. I just thought if she bothers to come, why she still pull the long face? Well it's just her against her emotions. I can't judge her on that nor would I want to be concern more than observation. Like you said, thats how the WAW mindset works.
Just on the similar note to her weird proposal of staying together post D.

With regards to kids observing the daily dynamics, yeah I agree. I did sit down with them before and explore the possibility of post divorce and separation. At this point in time, although they know their mom does not love me anymore in her present state, they are still hoping that we will be together with each other. They are also against the thoughts of separation and prefer the existing arrangement. Thus also I keep them in check with IC because the feedback from IC of their well being also affects my decision and next steps.

Well I would not say that this will go on forever, but weighing the pros and cons, and their overall well being in check (Both are happy now, fulfilled, independent and model students in school), I might be able to afford stand awhile more. I was rather surprised when I talked to them that they are able to discuss with me calmly about the family situation and how they feel, instead of breaking down that I cautiously imagined. I do explain to them why I am still standing even though I could have just walked away, was because of how we came by in building the family and because I love our family, not because that I am staying for their sake.

But that being said, It's also the last straw for the camel back. I told myself if she brought up divorce again, I will facilitate the process, make it easy for her by withdrawing my previous terms of no overnight stays which seem to be the thing that is holding her back and if not, I'll take the initiative to file it.

[SteveLW]

ToSmile,

Excellent response. You seem to be doing a good job of being a father through this difficult period. I applaud that! That is about all you can do at this point.

I don't necessarily like the waiting for her to bring it up again for you to move the D forward. But in this case I will take it. I do not expect that it will take long, based on her behavior at the family dinner. I think she felt completely uncomfortable with the façade of the happy family considering she has made it abundantly clear that she wants out. I get what you said about her excusing herself in the past, but likely her guilt at what this is doing to the kids made her agree to attend this time. But likely she will want to avoid being in that situation again in the future. And will raise the issue of D again.

ToSmile, some of the best advice I got in my sitch, and apologies if you already have heard this, is that the WAS is just trying to be happy. She doesn't know how to find that happiness, all she knows is that being in the marriage isn't making her happy. So she will continue to try to find her way out of the marriage, even if she is too lazy to push it forward herself. (We've already been over that last part.)

Again, I know this is hard. I feel for you. I know that if you could you would snap your fingers and make this all go away. But the sooner you turn your face towards the sun, and move forward with your life, the better off you and your kids will be for it! I know that they would prefer that you stay together, but I think deep down they know that if the relationship cannot be made whole, that it is better for you and them to move forward. The current state is not their wish, being in a home with a loving, happy, mom and dad that love each other as well as them is really what they want. Unfortunately, that is out of your power to give them.

You got this ToSmile! Onward and upward!

[neffer]

Meanwhile, you’ve got the chance to keep shining. That light comes from your inside. A bright pure light.

Shine there.

[ToSmile]

Hi Steve,

Actually this is not the first time she join us for family events. Although the dinner this time round was suggested by the son, normally if there are any special occasions, I would just casually ask if she like to join in and it's all up to her. No obligations. Sometimes she join, and is ok. Other times is like above. Most of the time she does not join. But in truth, I would rather that she does not join if she gonna pull that face. It just kinda dampen the mood for others anyway.

Metaphorically speaking, I am turning my back at her and starting walking. I am looking at another direction now and not turning around and see, with the kids by my side. I'll just look to the front and to my left and right to ensure their happiness. It's either she realize that I am walking further and further away and if she would catch up, or she can continue the other direction when eventually we are just out of each other's sight.

Thinking back those times from BD onwards is really a nightmare now. I am also looking for my happiness. I even deleted the photos of the trip we went supposedly to work it out. I had never enjoyed that holiday. Recently, I had been thinking about something that someone wise told me a decade ago which I could not quite accept back then. But with age and life experiences, it kind of make sense to me if I seek for quality of life or to be happy....

That is: "If some people are so toxic to you, you cut them out of your life. Even if they are your parents. Otherwise you will not be able to move on with them dragging you down." It was hard for me to think back then..... giving up on parents? But life had also otherwise taught me many things. And all I hope for is to provide for the next generation a life that is not tainted with the nonsenses I received.

Sometimes I look back and thought, how would it be if my pursues were different and where will I be at now? And if I had not met her, how would I be now? But well I can't change anything. Just look forward.