Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 193
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 193
ToSmile,

Just read through your entire thread. 3 years of telling you she wants divorce, disrespecting you, having affairs (coming home at 3 and 5am, texting in your child's bed...etc.). That must be extremely difficult and wear on you over time. I know from my own situation of in-house separation it's hard and soul-crushing, and that was "only" 5 months. I did see some similar behaviors...

Originally Posted by ToSmile
one day she was cooking for my parents, and another day she suddenly handed my parents some gifts and such. Thus I am kinda confuse by her behaviour. She will still tend to be very close with my family members, cousins, aunts and such even though previously she had been avoiding gathering sessions with them

Should I see these signs as something positive or jus ignore it? Actually one think I am always curious about is, what are the signs if she is coming back and how do I react from there?

My W would invite my parents over for Sunday dinner in the midst of our IHS/sitch. I knew from my snooping (which she didn't know about) she was telling her AP and friends it was to "keep the peace" and pretend everything was happy" so I wouldn't spill the beans. I forget the exact term but she would tell her AP she even though it was hard (to play nice at home) she would do it so I wouldn't blow up his life. I decided to play along and play nice husband/family and have my parents over (even though they felt sick about it and didn't want to) to show her what a "nice/loving" family looked like as my counselor suggested and hopefully show her what she'd be missing. Turns out we were all playing an unhealthy charade. Wish now I had stood up stronger in the beginning as my tact didn't change a thing in terms of the outcome anyway.

Originally Posted by ToSmile
The other funny thing is she is still carrying out home improvement stuffs during this period such as planting & potting, getting a cpu fixed up for the kids and such.

Sometimes I wonder if I am dealing with a mentally ill or a WW.

My wife gardened, bought new carpet, did massive prepping/cleaning around the house for Spring...all shortly before moving out. It was like a bizarre riddle there was no answer to. Even after separation and her living with OM2, bought me what would've been a really nice Christmas present of a picture of my son and I...except it wasn't nice, because why would I want something like that from her at this point?

Originally Posted by LH19
TS you sound like a very smart man but these are the kind of comments that I bet go you into trouble. Love is playful and kind. Do you see how enforcing boundaries and lecturing may have worn on your W over the years?

Just an observation.

Originally Posted by CWarrior
If you ever watched the Smurfs, I'd say we should aspire to be more like Papa Smurf (who shared good ideas when asked) and less like Brainy Smurf (who shared good ideas ALL THE TIME).


Good thoughts here by LH/CWarrior. I probably was guilty of too much advice and lecturing, and will work on that going forward - don't take that to mean it justifies the affairs, deceit and disrespect your W is showing you though!

This earlier comment resonates with me...

Originally Posted by LH19
So I just went back and read your opening thread and I think it's really time to think about what your standing for and what you want out of the second half of your life. Your W is a kook who doesn't respect you or marriage.

I know you you are worried about your children but the truth is that they will be better with a normal and stable parent 50% of the time. It will likely be many, many years if ever that you see a reappearance of your old wife.

You make mention of your W being like Wolf's wife well the is about the bottom of the barrel for WWs.

Show your children what a strong male looks like.

To me the bottom line is how long are you willing to take this situation and her treatment of you? I'm not advocating divorce, as ideally everyone would work on the marriage and fix the issues, but if the other person isn't willing to work on it there has to be a point in every sitch you pull the plug. For me, my W took the action and I didn't have to make the choice but I firmly believe 3 years would be much to long for me. Yes, most of us are afraid of the impact to the kids - it's certainly not ideal - but then is witnessing your W's behavior and seeing you live with it good for them either? Unfortunately your W has put you and the kids in a bad position either way and unfortunately you need to decide the best way for you to play the cards she dealt you. Good luck. I'm certainly wishing the best for you and your children.

Last edited by BL42; 04/17/21 06:06 AM.

Me:39 Ex-W:37
M:7 T: 9
S:6 D:3
BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20
OM1 affair ends: May '20
W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20
W files for D: Jul20
OM2 confirmed: 9/2020
Divorced: May '21
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 94
T
ToSmile Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 94
Hi all,

Hope everyone had good weekend. Normally I do not bring my workstation home over the weekend but I do look through the postings via my phone.

LH, Cwarrior, I reflected on it. I do think I have been too much of a smart ass with the "I know it / that's gonna happen" that kill off all the fun for others to try and figure it out themselves, especially for her. She used to claimed that a reason she was attracted me back then was that I am a very good planner and I am able to take care of everything with my planning, always back up with contingencies A, B, C in line making everything going so smoothly. But this is a double edge sword I guess. Overtime it is controlling, kills the novelty and irritates one. I became like a parenting figure that is "overly protective" unknowingly just to spare myself of the inconvenience in salvaging aftermaths.

Perhaps now, I understand why she mentioned I am like her mother controlling her. Actually the controlling is not me restricting her freedom of movement but freedom to explore, the freedom to express her decisions with these unsolicited advices. Especially if it comes true as what I had said, it would irk her even more. I am in the wrong frequency with her as I always thought I never restrict her movement like her mother did. But likely she got the same feeling whenever I dishes out these advices, which may seems novel at the beginning to nagging over the course of time.

BL42, I managed to have some downtime over the weekend in thinking things over as she brought the kids out with her friends and family for a staycation. Although I would say that I am not yet ready to initiate the divorce, I do not think I will challenge her again with regards to the overnight access shall she bring up the divorce again as that seems to be her claim of what's holding her back. I'll just remove the "obstacle" that she feels stopping her to take action and stick to managing those that I can control within my invisible sphere.

Just like over the weekend, she brought the kids for staycation with her family. So I managed to go out to meet up with my friends. On the second night, she called and told me that the younger one was not feeling well and like to return home. She asked if I could pick him up. I just had my first drink with my friends but I chose to excuse myself and pick the younger boy up. My friends followed me as they decided to come over and carry on with the catch up. On the way back, the boy vomited on me twice and after we got home, I clean him up, made him comfortable and tuck him in before joining my friends at the living area.

They passed me the question as to the younger boy is sick, why can't she handle him? And why can't she end the staycation and bring both the kids home? I shared with them that well, she did offer to continue taking care of the younger boy at the hotel. But the boy asked to come home and knowing that, I made the choice to fetch him. This is how I prioritize things, which I think is different with her decision making process. ie: I can't have the peace of mind to enjoy myself knowing my kid is sick but from past occasions, she is able to let go.

However, this is not something I can control. What I can do is to be there for my kids when they need me and feel happy spending time with them. I was not angry about the episode as well but in fact happy that I am able to see my younger one earlier. To be fair, she did message me later asking me how the younger boy is fairing. Well that evening her tone to me was pleasant likely because I was of help "lol" and thereafter back to the cold stonewalling style again.

Anyway it doesn't matter. I just take care of myself and hope I am improving on my DB and boundaries.


M:38 W:38
T:14 M: 12
S:9 S:6
BD: 07/18
W Moved out: 5/19
W Moved in: 7/19
D draft received: 12/19
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
ToSmile, one of the things I read in my sitch, early on, is that if you are a controller the first 180 (that MWD's term for it not the anti-D expert that I am quoting) you should make is to stop that. Don't be the kind of husband that tries to control her in any way. There are lots of way we try to control:

- Criticizing how they do things
- Watching their spending like a hawk
- Correcting them when we think they are wrong in front of the kids or other people
- Snooping on them
- Using manipulation or gaslighting
- Nice Guy Syndrome!

I took a long hard look at myself when my W said she wanted a D, and I didn't like the person staring back at me. I had all of the above list to greater or to lesser extents, relatively. And I had to make the decision right then to stop those behaviors, and to start 180ing on all of them. Every time I started to say something or do something I would try to ask myself if that was in anyway manipulative or controlling. If it was then I didn't say it or do it. (The one I struggled with the most was snooping, but got better with it over time.)

The effects in that 180 were pretty quick. The first 4 weeks she thought I was not doing those things to convince her to stay. The next 4 weeks she started to embrace the new me, hesitantly. She even tested it a few times. (I remember one big test was when she went and spent $350 at the grocery store and I didn't even bat an eye!) By month three she was starting to believe that I could actually change! I think this was in part because I was showing her I was going to be okay moving forward if she still left me, AND at the same time still wasn't trying to control, at least in most of the ways that I used to. (This forum was a big part of that too!)

ToSmile, you may or may not save your MR by stopping the controlling tendencies now, but you will save a lot of future Rs (including those with your kids) if you can curb the controlling behaviors.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
TSMILE you win the quote of the day:

“Love is playful and fun. Not serious. Men should decide ahead of time to be in a good mood and choose to be happy, no matter what mood their women are in. It’s a more efficient, easier and effortless physiology to be in a fun, playful and peak state versus being grumpy, angry, irritable and moody. Women often test their men by feigning irritation or disapproval with their actions and words. Men who don’t know any better fail these tests by trying to defend themselves, getting all serious, rationalizing and apologizing and trying to keep the peace when their women back them into a corner through intimidation. Smart men use women’s grumpy moods to tease them playfully, make fun of them in a loving and good-natured way and to get them to open up and talk about what’s bothering them or to simply help them change their state by being so funny and charming, that their women can’t help but laugh, apologize for being grumpy and become sweet and playful themselves.” ~ Coach Corey Wayne

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 94
T
ToSmile Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 94
Hi Steve,

Through the marriage, I was doing the Nice Guy thing and after BD, I am guilty of all except the watching her spending, snooping and gaslighting.

I just have the strong feeling that either my first divorce help book was wrong or I interpreted it wrongly. But anyway, I am leaving that behind because the past is something I can't change. For now, I am directing my thoughts and actions not towards saving the marriage. I am steering myself away from the marriage instead, not in the sense of "venturing out" but to drop the topic totally from my mind. I am focusing on the work outs, the kids, and everything else except her and the marriage. And it really felt good this week except I nearly had a melt down couple of days ago due to working at home for a couple of days with 2 kids that's ill and added on with some issues from my family. Just tried to get out of the situation by going out alone yesterday night when the wife was back and the kids asleep to catch a breather.

LH, I think love died over time in my marriage. The fun and playfulness were gone for me especially when the kids arrived and mounting financial commitments. She was earning more than me and perhaps my subconscious feeling of inferiority drove me to focus all on my work and I turned into a no fun guy, very different from whom I was. I dislike hassles and just want things to be done in the most effective and efficient way without having to say the "I told you so" and follows by having to make things good. I was like a nanny and all the fun was gone too. Likely she did try to reach out too. Until she gave up as she failed to capture my attention. I still remember she told me to give her a hug every morning when we are in the elevator but at that point in time, my thoughts were all the projects, deadlines and meeting the numbers at work and expenses at home.

The rationalizing and apologizing part were true for me as well. So that's how it all failed. I can't change the past. What I can do is just shed that weight, armor & know it all ego of mine and free everyone. I'll just look at myself and leave the rest alone and take one step a time at this new direction that I am heading.

I really appreciate the pointing out of the passive controlling behavior and the sharing of the wonderful quote above. It means and makes me feel so much lighter now even though I am reading this after a long work day. Look forward to be receiving more of these wise words.


M:38 W:38
T:14 M: 12
S:9 S:6
BD: 07/18
W Moved out: 5/19
W Moved in: 7/19
D draft received: 12/19
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
ToSmile, changing is hard. Impossible without IC. You admit you are controlling, so are you in IC?


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Originally Posted by ToSmile
Through the marriage, I was doing the Nice Guy thing and after BD, I am guilty of all except the watching her spending, snooping and gaslighting.

It's good that you can acknowledge this behavior.
Originally Posted by ToSmile
I just have the strong feeling that either my first divorce help book was wrong or I interpreted it wrongly.

Truthfully I don't think anything but time and space would fix your situation.
Originally Posted by ToSmile
But anyway, I am leaving that behind because the past is something I can't change. For now, I am directing my thoughts and actions not towards saving the marriage. I am steering myself away from the marriage instead, not in the sense of "venturing out" but to drop the topic totally from my mind. I am focusing on the work outs, the kids, and everything else except her and the marriage.

Perfect!
Originally Posted by ToSmile
And it really felt good this week except I nearly had a melt down couple of days ago due to working at home for a couple of days with 2 kids that's ill and added on with some issues from my family. Just tried to get out of the situation by going out alone yesterday night when the wife was back and the kids asleep to catch a breather.

IHS was the worst year of my life. Can't even imagine it with Covid. Be kind and patient with yourself
Originally Posted by ToSmile
LH, I think love died over time in my marriage. The fun and playfulness were gone for me especially when the kids arrived and mounting financial commitments.

That's what lands most people here.
Originally Posted by ToSmile
The rationalizing and apologizing part were true for me as well. So that's how it all failed. I can't change the past. What I can do is just shed that weight, armor & know it all ego of mine and free everyone.

Love this paragraph.
Originally Posted by ToSmile
I'll just look at myself and leave the rest alone and take one step a time at this new direction that I am heading.

Perfect!
Originally Posted by ToSmile
I really appreciate the pointing out of the passive controlling behavior and the sharing of the wonderful quote above. It means and makes me feel so much lighter now even though I am reading this after a long work day. Look forward to be receiving more of these wise words.

You are welcome!
Originally Posted by ToSmile
ToSmile, changing is hard. Impossible without IC. You admit you are controlling, so are you in IC?

I disagree with this statement. IC can help but it is not impossible to change without it. Just try to get a little better everyday.

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 94
T
ToSmile Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 94
Hi Steve,

I am on Public IC (Free of Charge) but after awhile, I feel the sessions not being very productive because over time, I feel the IC tends to be empathic with me and does not value add much. Perhaps the IC is not a very good or experience one and nowadays my sessions with her a bi-monthly and it's more like she's lending a ear to me and checking in on me. However through her, I secure the IC session for my children from the same organization.

I may be considering at taking up meditation, taking up some courses or evening joining some new groups to keep myself busy and fulfill as of now. At the same time also relinquish some of the hobbies that I had given up long ago smile

At where I am at, I think there isn't much experienced ICs except those that are very specialized in certain subject matters and cost a lot per session.... Ever check out before and a couple of sessions can easily end up in grands.


M:38 W:38
T:14 M: 12
S:9 S:6
BD: 07/18
W Moved out: 5/19
W Moved in: 7/19
D draft received: 12/19
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 682
Likes: 30
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 682
Likes: 30
I had to switch IC after about 8 every other week sessions. I had started seeing her before I came here. At first when I was a puddle of emotions she was fantastic, but week after week as I learned to cope and started making decisions about how I wanted to handle things, my kids, my self, the house hold etc, she got increasingly worse. Week after week she asked when I was going to kick him out. She kept pushing me on how long was I willing to live like this, it had literally only been several weeks since the EA had started H was just diving headlong into the affair quickly. No matter how much I explained to her I can't legally kick him out. No matter how I asked her how that would work with a non-bio kid in my house legally (just as an aside I knew because I worked in juvenile and family law for years & half way through this I retained an attorney) she never had an answer. It wasn't even a matter of me wanting to stand, it was a matter of her treating my marriage falling apart at the seams like a 20 something break up. Much like H was. It wasn't logical, legal or helpful what she was offering. I didn't want to leave her and find someone new as, we had taken the time to build a rapport, she was fully covered under my EAP program at work, and was incredibly cheap once I ran out of free sessions, but the fact is it wasn't working.

I don't have a ton of expendable income, but I have an FSA that had money on it, and I knew this was something I needed. And for reference I'm paying out of pocket this year to still see the therapist I found after the disastrous one. No it isn't cheap. And yes it's pretty daunting with a D impeding and all the money that will cost, but the way I started to sleep at night was worth every penny. How she metaphorically held my hand through my husband mourning the A and the OW, and eventually turning back toward me and our MR when all of it made my anxiety and therefore my control issues skyrocket was worth every penny. The fact is it isn't cheap, you're right. But you need to decided if you're worth that. I decided I was. And my girls deserved the most level headed, healthy parent I could and can give them. Ask yourself if you'd be paying for MC if WW was willing to reconcile. If the answer is yes then you know what you really should be doing here.

Also as I've suggested to other people on this board there are a lot of online counseling options, apps even, including sliding scale in all kinds of modalities and specialties. If this is something you want it's out there for you, it just make take a little more work to get there.

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Tosmile, WHAT wayfarer said!! I do not understand when people have a bad IC experience why they give up on all IC! It is like going to a restaurant, receiving bad service, and vowing to never eat at another restaurant ever again. ICs are like anything else. There are good ones and there are bad ones.

We often hear from LBSs "I can't afford IC". My response is always the same "You cannot afford NOT to be in IC."


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Page 4 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard