Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2907477#Post2907477


Originally Posted by AnotherStander
The idea of DB'ing isn't to dazzle her with a huge demonstration of how much you've changed. It's to fade into the background while she goes on her journey. She won't see you as not "THE problem" until you can remove yourself from the equation. When she discovers her life isn't nirvana, and that she can't blame you for it anymore, THEN she might look back and THAT is when your changes and 180's will matter. If she looks back and sees YOU-2.0 looking good and feeling good and enjoying life, then her curiosity will be piqued. She may question her choice to leave you.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2907573#Post2907573

Originally Posted by LH19
So Indy below is my mantra on how I live my life. I read this at least one a day.

“A true alpha’s state of mind is one of indifference, charm, humor, humility, courage and a belief that eventually, things will work out in their favor. Alphas set, keep and hold other people accountable to their boundaries. They stand up for what they believe in and don’t compromise their principles or values for anyone. They have an emotionally compelling vision of what kind of life and lifestyle they want to create and then resolve to pay the price, no matter how long it takes to make it a reality.”

So in relationships moving forward for me infidelity is a boundary. You cheat you're out. No exceptions. In friendships if you are not loyal and do not have my back you are out. No exceptions. I will never ever again try to convince someone to be in my life who doesn't want to be there.

I think you need to figure out what are your principles and values. If it's monogamy then that needs to be a boundary and cannot be compromised for anyone and you need to stand up for what you believe in.





M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2907724#Post2907724

Originally Posted by LH19
Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with an woman who wasn't meeting your needs, who would irrationally blame you for anything that went wrong, and then cheated on you and lied to you. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?

The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.

When W cheated/left she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.

That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!

You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.

Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.

With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2823726

Originally Posted by uRworthy

You will not die. That's the truth of it. I thought I would. I really did. I did not think I would survive it. For a lot of reasons.

But i did. Mostly because of the generous, loving people I met here, my wonderful therapist and my son. But also because of me. The work I did. The strength I found.

I came kicking and screaming into DB. I could not get it for the longest time. It made no sense to me. Detach?? Let him go?? Find me? What??? My marriage was ending. The life I knew was gone. How could doing all of that help?

So, I kept making excuses. I kept fighting the idea of all of this.

Until one day....I didn't.

And that is when I had to roll up my sleeves and do the work.

It isn't easy this. I had set backs and I ran into my hole. The people here...my people... wouldn't let me do that for long. They challenged me and consoled me and pushed me. Held me up when I couldn't do it myself. It was a long journey...mainly because of my stubbornness...Be quiet, Mach. smile.

I can promise you this: Once you decide and I mean really decide to let go....your life begins anew.

You see, they cant move through their stuff, while you are hanging onto their pant legs. And you cant move through yours either. How can you see forward when they are in the way? You way down there? They are running towards a life they think they want while you are weighing them down.

The only way to do this...is to leave them to do their thing. And it will be ok. You will be
growing and changing and becoming who you were always meant to be.


Leave them to their journey. You walk yours.

You wont die from this. You will be reborn.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2907728#Post2907728

Telling the Kids / Children:
Originally Posted by LH19

Just stick to the points that you love them both very much and this has absolutely nothing to with them. Then answer their questions the best that you can and validate their feelings. I found that this was a another part of the process that I imagined being way worse then it turned to be. I would try to stay away from the jibber jabber your w mapped out. Remember in general less is more.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander

As far as thoughts on the discussion, I agree with LH about focusing on the kids and letting them know this is not their fault. Can't remember if I suggested this already in your thread, but do tell them you both love them and will remain their parents no matter what and will always be there to support them. No need to get into a lot of detail about the separation other than explaining that you are separating and that they will be going back and forth. Ask them if they have any questions. When XW and I had this discussion with our kids most of their questions were about logistics. Whether they would have their own rooms at her new place, what days they would be switching back and forth, etc. Surprisingly they didn't ask anything about why we were separating or what the recon possibilities were. XW and I had discussed that first and if they asked we planned on telling them that we were going to counseling (true) and trying to work things out (not really true, just one of us was!)




"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2907768#Post2907768


Originally Posted by LH19
Right now you shouldn’t be together because your W is choosing not to be together. It takes two people to want to be in a marriage to have a healthy marriage. Your W has changed the rules of the game. That doesn’t mean the first 14 years was a mistake. Right now she doesn’t respect you. An open affair is the ultimate disrespect in a marriage. Until that changes you can expect the same or even worse behavior from your W. I’m sorry.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2907772#Post2907772

Originally Posted by Steve_
Unfortunately our ladies "moved on" a while back. We just didn't see it until BD. I asked mine up and down two weeks before BD "are we okay?" I could tell something was wrong because she said "yeah we are good" and had no nagging complaints... she gave up.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2908013#Post2908013


Originally Posted by LH19
I would love to talk some sense into your W but she’s past the point of no return. Unfortunately her journey is scripted and the outcome is very predictable. I’ve studied this stuff immensely because I had to understand why my family was be broken apart and I had zero control of it. What really helps if you understand that your on a journey that may take you places you have never dreamed you could go. This is not a death sentence by any means. Just not the life you planned.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2908032#Post2908032

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
WAS's have this fantasy in their head about how perfect and smooth everything will go. She fully expected you to agree with everything and rubber stamp it. Anything else is unacceptable to her WAS-polluted mind. Argue even the tiniest point and it sends her ranting and raving. Unfortunately this is life with a WAS. Expect more of this type of behavior. When we talk about "getting off the roller coaster" what we mean is while she rides the ups and downs, you stay off to the side on terra firma. She's all over the place, you are solid and stable. DO NOT let her browbeat you into accepting anything less than a fair settlement. Do your homework. Know what you want. If she screams and gets agitated and waves her arms around then listen and validate, but STAND YOUR GROUND. A lot of people think "validate" means "give her what she wants", no that is not it at all. Validating simply means reaffirming her FEELINGS, not her demands. "You seem upset, I am sure this all must be very upsetting for you, I am sorry you feel that way." "So you'll sign my version then?" "No, I've made changes that I think are reasonable and fair." "YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO HAVE WHAT YOU WANT BLAH BLAH BLAH" Always remember that she should not be allowed to tread on your boundaries. If she yells, then warn her once and then walk away. "I am sorry you are upset but I will not tolerate being yelled at, if you can discuss this calmly then I am willing, but if you yell at me again then we will take a break and discuss this another time."

Here's what my lawyer told me when I was in the stage you're in, whatever precedence's are set in the separation will be HEAVILY considered by the court for the final divorce agreement. And not only that, but I've seen it play out that way too. What you agree to informally CAN AND WILL be used against you later. I've seen men here that wanted 50-50 custody but let their WW coerce them into less, telling them the kids need their mom during this transition or whatever, and that it's just temporary and they will work out the permanent arrangement later. Guess what happens? Months go by and they go to court and the judge says "You've only been seeing the kids every other weekend, why do you think you deserve 50-50 now? You've shown that you are willing to accept the custody arrangement the way it is now, and the court doesn't believe it's in the best interest of the children to upset their schedule." Believe me, the judge won't care one hoot about what promises she made to you before, that falls under the category of "he said she said". The court will consider actions and history, not words and promises.

You're not in the business of placating her. You need to make sure you're protected and the kids are protected. I'm not saying to go for more than you think it fair, but I am saying you need to understand your rights and a lawyer will help you navigate that. Also the divorce process itself is pretty cumbersome and it's not as simple as walking in the court and high fiving the judge and walking out. The paperwork has to be done just so, the process has to be followed, things have to be filed a certain way with certain people, etc. Even if the two of you agree on everything, you still need a lawyer to help you with that.

Hire a lawyer. Inform her that you hired one not to fight her, but just to help with this process. Whether she likes it or not is immaterial. If you decide to build a house you consult a contractor. If you decide to get surgery you consult a doctor. This is no different, you're just consulting a professional on matters you don't have expertise in.



Quote
As we tried to review the document she sat in her chair with arms crossed and left the computer on the ottoman as though it was up to me to complete the document. She was basically pulling away showing that she was done with the conversation.
Quote
"You look agitated, would you like to continue or would you rather take a break and discuss this another time?"



Quote
On several occasions she brought up past conversations.
Quote
"We're trying to resolve this separation agreement, we can discuss that if you wish but I would suggest we save that for another time so we can focus on this."


Quote
She mentioned that she had begun to make a spreadsheet of items in the house.
Quote
Good, that is exactly what the two of you should do. I asked my XW to make a list of the things she wanted to take so we could discuss it. She did exactly that. We agreed on most of it, there were a few things I wanted to keep so I asked her if she was willing for me to buy her replacement items instead since I would have to buy replacements anyway. She agreed to that and we spent a day shopping for furniture which I paid for (we had separate bank accounts our entire marriage).


Quote
She made it clear that she was upset that she was disinvited from Thanksgiving, though she didn’t want to go anyways. But she expressed she was upset about that. I believe the same goes for my work dinner Saturday based in her tone.
Quote
Just validate, don't argue about it or tell her she can goes if she wants to. "I am sorry you are upset, I can understand why you feel that way."


Quote
I stayed calm through the conversation. I thanked her over and over again for the work she had done in the agreement trying to show gratitude.
Quote
It's great that you stayed calm, but this isn't the place to show gratitude. If you're trying to appeal to her "words of affirmation" love language then do it about the kids, tell her what a great mom she is and how much the kids enjoy her cooking or help with homework or whatever. Don't thank her for the separation/ divorce.


Quote
I tried to listen and validate as best I could. I tried to show gratitude and be calm and gentle as I could. I tried to be strong and not cave. I did say I’m sorry about five times in different spots. It’s so hard to stop when I’m so used to it.
Quote
And don't apologize either. Validation isn't apologizing. I mean you can tell her you're sorry she's feeling XYZ, that is different. That's validation, not an apology. You're sorry for how she is FEELING, not for whatever she thinks you did wrong.


Quote
I've also given in and called my Doctor to discuss anxiety meds. I didn't want to make that call but between this board and a friend of mine, not to mention my inability to get to work and work, I believe its a good decision. I hate the idea but I can't let this thing get out of control. Really a tough tough call for me. Appointment is this afternoon.
Quote
I understand, I felt the same way. But I am very thankful I went to the doc and got those prescriptions, it helped me cope at a time I could not. And it helped me get back to my old self much more quickly.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2908106#Post2908106


Originally Posted by Vapo
Hang in there buddy. We hear you. We were all there. We have all faced the same demons. We all survived and came out stronger on the other end.

Your heart not letting go is just rose colored glasses and denial going on. There is no getting around it, the only way is through.


Learn about the 6 stages of grief
, it will help you understand your body reactions.

The Six Stages of Grieving

NUMBNESS AND DENIAL. To initially cope with loss it common to go in a state of shock and denial. ...
ANXIETY AND PANIC * When you feel anxiety, deeper feelings about your loss will be piercing through your denial. ...
BARGAINING AND CONTROL. ...
FRUSTRATION AND ANGER. ...
DEPRESSION AND DESPAIR. ...
ACCEPTANCE AND PEACE.

It is not a clear cut journey and one can regress for a while to a previous stage, but a general direction is there.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard