And then it was over.

[Spiral]

Misty,

You're only assuming what his response is going to be if you set boundaries. You don't know what his response will be until you do (and hold firm after the initial angry outburst). I know that setting boundaries can really speed situations up (or at least it did for me). But there are certainly cases where the OM/OW doesn't actually want their affair partner to move in or where it will blow up quickly after they do. You never know, your situation could be one of those. If that happens, you'll have momentum in your favor. And if he does move out, it just doesn't seem that much worse than your current situation.

Also firm boundaries force your spouse to treat you nicely when they are in your presence cause you can always tell them to go home or walk away. Of course, all I actually know is that what happened to me wasn't as bad as I was afraid it was going to be (although I definitely took action before considering the consequences since I was trying to regain control of the situation and wasn't expecting her to pick the OM). But I have to think that it hurts a lot more as you spend your sleepless night waiting for him to come home.

Also, if his name is on the lease or the deed, you cannot make him leave without a court order. And he cannot make you do anything during divorce proceedings without a court order and most everyone ends up settling their disputes rather than going to trial. I guarantee you that you are in control of a whole lot more than you think you are and most of the things you're afraid of you don't need to be afraid of.

The nightmare already happened. We just need to learn how to accept it. And both of our situations will come out for the best - we just don't know if the best will include our spouses.

Spiral

[BlueSea]

What does one do when living with a WAS that is eating cake at home. Go on an RV trip down the Oregon coast.

The kids in their want to help fix this, put together a pretty elaborate presentation for us to go on a trip. I left it up to H and he said yes. Of course, later after the kids were gone, he reamed me that I set him up. I really didnt, he had the opportunity to say no - and I let the kids know that was a real possibility - and he said yes. He never wants to be the bad guy.

So - I am DBing while in super tight quarters in an RV - with two teenagers that are bearing down on me on how things are going - and a 16 yr old DD that has input on all I do or say (Mom! dont complain about the coffee!! - when I sent back coffee to the barista). Right now I am a mess on the inside - anxious if I am DB'ing well - while the kids think I am give the H the silent treatment. They just want us to be loving towards eachother - I get that. I am trying to please too many people right now - all with different opinions on how I should be. Its exhausting.

When will the soul crushing pain start to subside? I think if I had access to heroine I would become a dedicated user. I never understood why someone would use that stuff - NOW I completely understand.

I see people that have landed on this forum after I got here - and have surpassed me in growth. Even though you all are holding up signs that this is not the right way to go, I still am meandering down the love conquers all path. Ugh. I am still full on in love with him.

I wish had better things to post. I wish I could say I was moving on. But this is where I am right now. I hope to post better things soon.

[SteveLW]

So..... Your soon to be ex reams you for something you didn't do, and you are considering an all out love blitzkrieg to win him back.

Your life. Your marriage. Your decision. But in the 100s of situations we've seen here, I can't think of a single one that ended in reconciliation by the LBS going down the "love conquers all" path. Maybe yours will be the 1 in million. More likely a year from now you'll be wishing you world have followed the advice here like so many others that chose to do things the intuitive way.

We talk to LBHs all the time about Nice Guy Syndrome. Both there is also stuck thing as Nice Girl Syndrome. You should look it up. See if the signs fit you, and then look into the methods for overcoming it. (Hint: trying to please everyone around you ain't it!)

[LH19]

M,

I am really sorry you are struggling today.

Unfortunately the way Hollywood portrays the love conquers all story that is why you and your daughter believe it’s the way to go. Sadly it’s not the case and I wish it was for you and your family. Not you certainly can try that scenario but more then likely it will make him uneasy a run like when you chase a cat.

The correct thing to do is the exact opposite. You take the attitude of “oh you think you’ll be better off without me well then have it”. Then you go out a live an awesome life. The reality is most men are not happier divorced. Within a couple years he’ll look and realize he didn’t have it so bad and look back in your direction. Ultimately you’ll have final say in the matter.

As for full blown love it’s just not the case. It’s your brain looking for stability and it thinks you will get that stability back by getting your husband to confess his undying love for you. This is not the case and is just an illusion.

No that one way or another the pain will subside and you will be happy again.

Be kind and patient to yourself Misty Sea.

[Oceangl]

What does one do when living with a WAS that is eating cake at home. Go on an RV trip down the Oregon coast.

The kids in their want to help fix this, put together a pretty elaborate presentation for us to go on a trip. I left it up to H and he said yes. Of course, later after the kids were gone, he reamed me that I set him up. I really didnt, he had the opportunity to say no - and I let the kids know that was a real possibility - and he said yes. He never wants to be the bad guy.

So - I am DBing while in super tight quarters in an RV - with two teenagers that are bearing down on me on how things are going - and a 16 yr old DD that has input on all I do or say (Mom! dont complain about the coffee!! - when I sent back coffee to the barista). Right now I am a mess on the inside - anxious if I am DB'ing well - while the kids think I am give the H the silent treatment. They just want us to be loving towards eachother - I get that. I am trying to please too many people right now - all with different opinions on how I should be. Its exhausting.

When will the soul crushing pain start to subside? I think if I had access to heroine I would become a dedicated user. I never understood why someone would use that stuff - NOW I completely understand.

I see people that have landed on this forum after I got here - and have surpassed me in growth. Even though you all are holding up signs that this is not the right way to go, I still am meandering down the love conquers all path. Ugh. I am still full on in love with him.

I wish had better things to post. I wish I could say I was moving on. But this is where I am right now. I hope to post better things soon.

Oh MS, What a tough situation.

I see a need for a lot of boundaries here, and some perspective. You and your teenagers are both caught up in a lot of fear, and fear causes us to accept things we normally wouldn't, and to try to please everyone. Your teenagers seem to know there are problems in the MR. Do they know about OW?

First, do you have a notebook? Buy one on one of your stops. Maybe also a novel. Something you can spend some time with. Writing and reading. Write down your goals and hopes for yourself. Write down the things about you that make you a catch. One thing I did was write down some of the things my H had done to me or said to me that were awful. Then, when I started to cave to Ms. Nice Girl or when I would start taking all the blame, I would read it and think, oh yeah, wow, that's a lot. He hasn't been very nice to me.

He's not being nice to you. He blames everything on you. Why do we allow that? I think you need to not only set boundaries with him, but with your teens. Can you take the aside for a walk alone? And with love say, what is going on? I think you guys are scared. I am, too. I don't want to lose my family, either. But I can't control anyone else's actions, and you may not realize it, but you're putting an awful lot of pressure on me for the marriage to work, and it's making things so painful for me. It might be best to acknowledge the elephant in the RV without casting blame on anyone. Just validating their feelings.

Keep reminding yourself of your worth, and because of that, you won't make decisions out of fear. I will take my own advice today.

[Sage4]

MS, I can completely relate to where you are at right now. You are stuck between feeling hopeful/wanting things to be better and the reality that no, you are actually just stuck in an RV with minute-to-minute reminders of what is wrong. It is SO painful, SO heartbreaking, SO hurtful. So many hugs to you right now. You are not alone.

I don't remember which thread I read this on, and I am going to probably mess up on the exact words, but someone asked another person whether they were in love with their spouse or in love with the idea of their marriage. This stood out to me and during some tough moments I have really had to ask myself that question... am I really in love with this person who is hurting me so much? Am I in love with the 'old' them (who likely is not coming back in the same form even if we do work things out)? Or am I just really in love with the security and stability that our marriage brings to my life and my family? I don't have the answer for myself here, but asking myself that question often has helped me get my head just enough above water to catch a breath and keep moving forward in that moment.

And as hard as it is, we are all just putting one foot in front of the other. That is all you need to do. One step at a time. It can be tiny, you might take a few steps back, but just keep lifting that foot and placing it in front of you.

[BlueSea]

Really appreciate the support and all the advice. Sunday was my 23rd Anniversary. I did the best I could do in this situation, in the RV, with the kids, with the pain of where my marriage is at.

As Sage4 commented

One step at a time. It can be tiny, you might take a few steps back, but just keep lifting that foot and placing it in front of you.

I am just doing that, inching along - so thank you for acknowledging that even though I am not doing what I should be doing - I am doing what I CAN do right now. I may regret it later, that I didnt do x or y, but I am really broken - and have to be kind to myself when I can, usually I am beating myself up about something/anything.

You take the attitude of “oh you think you’ll be better off without me well then have it”. Then you go out a live an awesome life. The reality is most men are not happier divorced. Within a couple years he’ll look and realize he didn’t have it so bad and look back in your direction. Ultimately you’ll have final say in the matter.

LH19 - this was a great read to me, hard to digest the 'years' part, but just reading that portion about thinking he will be better off without me, 'well then have it' - has helped me, I say it under my breath to myself - and just saying it feels really empowering - and I need that right now.

On our anniversary- there was an exchange of cards - nothing heavy at all - he thanked me for the good times and we raised 2 great kids. Mine was light. I thought the trip went well, in my opinion - the kids really had a great time amazingly and he was really tuned into being kind to them.

He is so up and down - nice then sooo not nice. This is strange, I make him coffee every morning in the RV, without his asking - and he never acknowledged that I did it or that he appreciated it. So Monday morning, I was blue - I could not muster a chipper good morning to his and I didnt make him coffee. He was trying to get the kids in gear to move and make it an early morning, but did not want to be the bad guy about it, and they were not moving (they are teens). I knew he wanted me to jump in and take care of it, but I did not- I just did not feel like doing that for him. So he left the RV.

I caught up with him post his walk. I knew something was up. This is what I don't get. He was genuinely hurt about the coffee & how I treated him that morning - I just dont get it. He was focusing on this & was hurt that I did not make him coffee or was not my usual self (really not my usual self - just how I FORCE myself to be). Anyway, I don't get it - he is ripping my heart out through my nose - and he is going to confront me on coffee making???!!! I was just about to blow! I didn't though - calmness prevailed. Why I mention this is because - there is something to all this - he comes off as the big bad wolf but really he is hurting inside and what I do or say DOES affect him!! That just made an impression on me that I thought I would share.

And ... please dont think I am a wallflower...I do have an end to my patience. After the kids (I did not stop them) were riling him about not getting me anything for pretty much any anniversary, he put on his mad face towards me, which would usually mean I need to shrink and back down. But this time I told him that I was getting tired of him bullying me. That just because he did not like what he heard, does not mean he gets the liberty of scowling at me to scare me. He was shocked at that. I suggested we use that d.e.a.r. technique - and it did help him to see my perspective. That was good.

I REALLY dont think any of this is going to amount to a hill of beans in the end . Oh, I would love for him to work this out - but this guy has other things going on in his head - and having a OW whispering sweet nothings and sheer adorations - is not helping. What I have learned on this board (just recently), is that you could do everything right per DB rules - and they still leave you. The wisdom being taught here is to detach detach detach so when it does happen, your just a bit more prepared.

Thanks everyone for helping me get thru this past weekend. I re-read all your posts several times, I appreciate you folks out there that got it & me, supported me with encouragement, and also Steve, who really really wants me to wake up.

[LH19]

I REALLY dont think any of this is going to amount to a hill of beans in the end . Oh, I would love for him to work this out - but this guy has other things going on in his head - and having a OW whispering sweet nothings and sheer adorations - is not helping. What I have learned on this board (just recently), is that you could do everything right per DB rules - and they still leave you. The wisdom being taught here is to detach detach detach so when it does happen, your just a bit more prepared.

Even if you do everything 100% perfectly starting today, this is still a months/years-long turnaround.

When you live with someone, there is a huge motivation to keep the peace. Everyone wants peace in their lives. If you blew up over every little thing that happened between you, you would both be miserable.

As such, you push things down and gloss over them as you live together, and the consequence of that is that resentment builds.

If resentment builds too much over time, eventually it becomes "too much" and people start contemplating an exit from the relationship. During this period, the relationship is really "on trial" but the other party is usually totally unaware of it.

Once the trial is over and the person has more or less resolved to leave, you're on the tail end of a years long process. It goes "things are overall good, but this stuff is annoying" -> "These things are really annoying but not bad enough that I want to leave" -> "These things are really annoying and I don't know if I can stay" -> "These things are really annoying and now I have to get out"

Unfortunately, in many cases the "annoying things" were never even articulated, or if they were, not with enough gravity. Once the "I need to leave" point is reached, whatever those things are get magnified (the coffee incident) and new ones get invented to help convince the departing partner that they are making the right choice, its an act in self-reinforcement which sometimes requires lots of fabrication.

Over time, you have *trained each other* what to expect from the other. He knows how you will react to any given situation, what you will say, how you will act, and he has decided that's not compatible with what he wants.

If you decide you don't want that either, and decide to make a change for yourself, initially he'll think you're just doing it as a gambit to get him back and as soon as he lets her guard down, you'll revert to who you "really are" in terms of who you've trained him that you are.

In order to turn this around he needs to *fully believe* that you've changed, and that you're not doing it just to get him back.

How do you convince him of that?

(1) Repetition, lots and lots of repetition in terms of reacting differently, acting differently, than you have historically.

(2) Acting differently when no one is looking

(3) Finding a life for your new self that doesn't require her. That's the only way you make it credible that your changes are for you. He won't even see them until she believes that you don't need him.

As a WAS, they will often displace blame on the LBS because they need to give themselves some relief, so eventually they are angry at you for what you did, and then they are angry at you again for what they did.

If they are in that state of mind, can you see why pursuing them or having relationship talks is just totally hopeless?

Can you see why if you address their past complaints *now* it just makes them angrier at you?

The three biggest things he's dealing with right now are fear and uncertainty about the future, guilt for what he's doing to you and your children, and anger and resentment over your role in pushing him to this point.

Everything you do right now is going to make him either more resentful, or less resentful.

If you increase his guilt, by blaming, shaming, or making her responsible for your emotional state, he's going to resent you more.

If you pursue him, argue with her, or try to convince him to work with you on the marriage, he's going to resent you for not letting him go and not giving him the space he wants.

If you immediately address all her historic complaints, he's going to resent the fact that you didn't do it sooner, and things had to get this bad for you to take action.

If you give him space, it’s going to make him less resentful.

If you live your own life, and are happy and joyful for your own sake, it’s going to make him less resentful.

If you are respectful in your communications with him, but not intimate, it’s going to make him less resentful.

*Eventually* she will burn through that big pile of resentment.

*Eventually* he will process his anger at you and it will dissipate.

UNTIL he goes through both of those processes, he will not see you as anything other than he believes you to be based on his prior training.

If he thinks you wear blue every day, and you start wearing red, he's still going to think of you as the girl that wears blue, because he literally can't see you right now.

WHILE he is processing his anger and resentment, YOU work on your changes. You do it slowly and methodically *for you*.

If you're a 2 today, you don't focus on being a 10, you focus on being a 3. Then you focus on being a 4. You be kind to yourself.

While his anger and resentment are burning down, your changes are building up.

When eventually he's had enough time and space that he can SEE YOU again, he'll be surprised by what she sees, and he'll question for the first time the assumptions he has held about you.

THAT is the beginning of your opportunity to turn things around, but you CANNOT control how long it will take him to process his anger and resentment, and you CANNOT accelerate it.

Buckle your seatbelt, it’s a marathon and you have to be patient and surrender to the fact that this relationship is NOT something you can control right now.

That's an uncomfortable feeling, but the sooner you own that fact, the better you'll do.

[KitCat]

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Cannot tell you how many times I've read this ^^^^^^^^^^

[Spiral]

Wow! That really makes things clear. Excellent post.

-Spiral