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Welp... I am an idiot and a fool.

Since our 'talk' when H went ballistic on me for asking for transparency, called me controlling and manipulative and accused me of guilting him back (WTF? HE came to ME on his knees, I never asked for that nor expected it), things have gotten way worse. He is back to being distant and uncommunicative. He won't look at me or touch me or even engage me in anything other than simple conversations regarding politics or the children. Yesterday, after having read through May and Alison's posts, I started to feel like WTF is wrong with me? Do I really want this man in my life? Do I want to put another 3-4 months into this only to come out the other end in the same place or worse? And then I saw several SM posts from couple friends celebrating birthdays and births and baptisms and anniversaries and all that love and all that compassion and friendship and I felt a sense of longing for that connection, which I used to have with H, but clearly no longer do.

I am at a loss as to what to do. I stated my boundary around not wanting to be in a marriage with a third party involved in any way. I cannot confirm nor deny whether or not this is in the case at the moment because he is unwilling to share any sort of transparency with me (he did say a few days ago that they have not communicated). Do I instigate D? How can I stay in this R and still maintain my boundary?

I am devastated that I let him tell the children that divorce is off the table and that we are back together again. They are sensing something is up and have asked me if it was still true that we will be together. I can't say anything to them and I am such a fool for not protecting them more fiercely. I am also such a fool for not protecting my heart more fiercely.

I had a series of terrible dreams last night where I kept encountering the EA woman and H; they mocked me for my foolishness and threw their love in my face. Over and over. It was one of those dreams where I would wake up and then fall asleep only to revisit the same dream. Maybe my subconscious is trying to tell me the truth about my situation. Or maybe my insecurities are bubbling to the surface.

We are back to a few months ago, prior to me asking H to move out for a S. We are currently back in the same house. I am not sure if H is planning on moving out again or not. I will not ask him. He spoke with our MC one-on-one today and has his own IC that he is working with.

Sorry for the ramble. I am hurting and sad and scared for the potential whiplash my children could be facing in the near future.

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Sage,

I just want to say that you aren't alone. I know exactly how you feel. I'm so sorry this is happening.

Just quickly-- take the focus off your H and put it on YOU. So you aren't talking about anything but the bare minimum... haha, from my perspective at least he isn't trying to shove his feelings down your throat about the OW! wink But take this space you have now, not physical but emotional-- and take care of yourself. you can't take care of your kids unless you can take care of yourself first. Don't read into your dreams-- you are hurting, with good reason, and just try to step back from this a bit and relax and be kind to yourself.

To your kids, I might say-- I love you. I can't predict the future and I don't know exactly what will happen. none of us do. But I do know that I love you guys more than anything in the world and I will always, always be here for you no matter what. I know you're scared. I am too. But just know that I love you and always will.

xoxoxoxo


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Sage, my H did exactly the same at the beginning of May. He told me he wanted to come back, he told the kids, and then about 3 days later he started to backtrack right to the point where he said nothing had changed and he didn’t have romantic feelings for me, and that it was guilt that made him tell himself coming back was right. I hit the floor big time. The pain I felt was untenable. I dropped the rope, I backed right off, I started to plan for a life without him in it. I went NC as much as poss. As you know, this works very favourably in my sitch. But I wasn’t doing it to win him back, I did it to protect myself and the kids. I wanted to take drastic action but realised there is no hurry to file for D. Sit with it for a while. He is confused and scared as well. As May says, focus on you and let him work out his stuff.

Re the dreams, I have had bad dreams of H and EAP twice this week. I am putting it down to insecurity bubbling under the surface. Try not to second guess his feelings about her. Keep strong, you have been doing really well.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
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Thank you May and Pommy, I really appreciate the perspective.

Pommy, we also had a momentary R around the same time as you did in May. Mine only lasted 24 hours, but it was the same thing then. So I kind of feel like we are now on round 2, the one where your H has recommitted and seems to be hanging in there with it all. Whereas mine lasted a few days and is back on the roller coaster. He hasn’t spoken to me all day, he asked about what was bothering me with my dreams (he knew I didn’t sleep well because of it) and I didn’t feel safe sharing the details. He shrugged and asked me what he could do. I said be gentle and maybe a little extra loving with me today. He looked at me and got up from the table and went to his therapy appointment. Not good DBing on my part, but we are technically in recon, so I am done tippy toeing around my needs. If he can’t meet them, well, then I guess that tells me something.

I spoke with my therapist this afternoon and got some good perspective and 2x4’s. It was hard, but probably necessary to hear how messed up my situation is. Not that I didn’t already know it.

I believe that H is going to ask for another S. I can’t do it. I can’t do it to my kids and I can’t do it to myself. If he needs space to figure himself out, then we need to D and separate all our finances, assets etc. And save our poor children from more whiplash. I am just guessing on his intent, so it may not come to fruition, but he is acting exactly the same way he did before our previous S. I don’t trust his decision making or motives right now. In fact, I don’t trust HIM at all anymore either. He is not a friend or a lover or a H in any sense of the meaning.

I embarked on the journey of being a family with the knowledge that there would be tough times and hardship and struggle and self-reflection and self-doubt. But that it was in our contract to work through all of that for the sake of family. That sometimes we would be unhappy, with ourselves, each other and our circumstances. But families aren’t disposable and we owe it to ourselves and our family to work on our issues together and come to a mutual understanding if it wasn’t working. I don’t feel like H has tried at all. All of his attempts have been half-a**ed, mired with EA and his own personal demons. But maybe this is as good as he can do. Maybe I need to believe him now. That he can’t do this, that he really was fooling himself for all those years. As devastated as that makes me feel, it’s him, not me.

He is gone for the evening and won’t be home until after I’m asleep. So I am guessing we may talk tomorrow. We have been invited to friends’ house for the 4th and he won’t commit. We were also supposed to leave for a romantic getaway in a couple weeks and he won’t commit to that either. I am a fool.

What would you do in my situation with the whole S vs D scenario? If he really loves me he will find a way back no matter our status right?

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S,

I’m really sorry you are going through this right now. In my situation we had separated for a little while and then got back together for about a year and a half. She then wanted to separate again doing the nesting option. I wanted no part of that and said let’s just divorce then. I’m not religious so to me it’s just a piece of paper. If you don’t want to go through with another separation it again it is completely understandable. Take some time to think about it.

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Hi Sage,

first off... the part about being a family and what we owe to ourselves and our children-- that just resonated so much with me. Also about my H not actually trying.

As you know, I'm in the "believe him" mode right now. This isn't on you. It is on him. You can't control whether or not he wants to try or not, how full-hearted his attempts are... you can only control you.

I don't know how to answer your question about what I'd do in your situation, but one option you might consider instead of full-on D, if you don't want to be the one to make that choice, is looking into what your state might have as options for legal S or a post-nup. That is what I've been thinking about, especially because I don't know that D is actually in my best interest financially. I know your situation is especially complicated because of the business, so if you aren't quite ready to pull that trigger but do want some security, a post-nup might be a good option.

Regardless of what you decide-- you have time. If he asks for an S, you are under no obligation to answer him right away. Say thanks, I'll need to think about this and end the conversation. Just because he is careening all over the place doesn't mean you need to go along for the ride. You take your own time to get to the mental place you need to get to decide what is best for you and your children. If that doesn't line up with his own timeline and he is insisting on this being a joint decision... too bad for him. He doesn't need your permission to leave. He can go. You will make your own decisions. And if it is to D and move on... you are fully empowered to do that if you believe it is the best for you and the children.

I've also had people on my thread remind me not to predict my own future. We don't know what will happen. People R after D all the time. And there is no way you can know right now how you'll feel if and the possibility arises. Or, you might be on a whole new path for yourself and an amazing new future that doesn't include him (except as the father of your kids... which of course complicates things.)

Also in/re the 4th of July plans etc-- if I were you, I would make plans on my own for what you want to do with the kids and he is welcome to come, or not. Drop plans for the romantic weekend. I think you ARE still DB-ing, you aren't in recon... this was something I struggled with a lot too when my H first broke it off with AP. It is so tempting to want to relax and feel like OK! We are in it now together! But these WHs are so, so confused.

Someone posted something on BlueSea's thread that I really liked, about being worried she's in a car heading 100 mph towards disaster. And the poster said, you know what to do... get out of the car. That doesn't necessarily mean S or D. But it does mean not letting his drama affect you.

Hang in there... you got this. Know that I'm doing this exact same thing right alongside you and thinking of you.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Updating.

H has been back in the house for almost two weeks. The first several days were amazing and then he went cold and did a 180 on his treatment of me and our R. And now he is saying that he thinks he wants a D, that he has a huge void in him that has been there a long time and that he believes I can never, ever fill for him. Back to the re-writing of history and all the decisions we have made in building our life together for the past nearly decade and a half. That he will never be happy with me and if he doesn’t do this he will be a shell of a person for the rest of his life. That he loves me and feels super strongly towards me, but that I don’t fulfill him in some way.

But he hasn’t been a shell of a person for the past 14 years. I know this. This shell of a person has only been present since our current situation erupted about 10 months ago. And I know in my bones that if he were to give us some time, we would get to a better place than we have ever been.

We had a big R talk where he asked me what’s wrong with him and how he could be making so many decisions that don’t feel right. We had a discussion about childhood trauma and the impact that is having on him right now. And then he asked me to take him upstairs, after which he had another breakdown of ‘I can’t do this anymore’. He asked me to leave him. He asked me why I wasn’t leaving him.

I asked for four months. Of leaning into our M and giving us time. That if after 4 months he still felt the same way, we would work through a D. He is vacillating. Four months would give me the space to know that we did everything in our power to make it work and if it didn’t then I would accept it.

I’m struggling. I’m able to DB until we get into these R talks and then I am back to square one. I want the time to work on things, but know that one hand can’t clap alone.

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Sage, I'm sorry that you're going through this. R talks at this point usually will lead to more heartbreak. I understand the need to sort things out and wanting to understand what the heck your H is thinking, but maybe he doesn't even know himself. He is even asking YOU to leave him.

Like you said, you can't work on the M alone. It takes two committed people. Your H obviously isn't one of them right now. You are asking for four months from a person who already told you he wants to D. You have to let go of the expectation that H will consider/honor your feelings, and that he will give it his best shot before deciding to D.

Once it was clear to me that I couldn't count on my H anymore to show up to gatherings with friends/family or family activities, I started to actively count him out. If he is not committed, I'd recommend eliminating that variable in your life as much as possible. Children will get used to that kind of consistency of dad not showing up.

Put your children first. Whether you guys stay married or not, the children need a stable environment. Try to give that to them to the best of your abilities.

((hugs))


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Quote
And I know in my bones that if he were to give us some time, we would get to a better place than we have ever been.


You don't know this. It isn't possible to know this. It's sad, and it is painful, but no matter what good times you have had in the past, it might very well be better for your H and you to be apart. It might, through no particular fault of yours, be a healthier and happier outcome for your H to be single. It may not - who knows - but that is something for your H to discover for himself, and you to discover in a parallel process - not for you to decide in advance for the both of you.

I think if you go into these interactions with 'no matter what you are saying to me about what you need or want, I know better, and I know the best place for you is with me,' then it is going to come off as suffocating, controlling and patronising. I know you don't mean it that way, but I think that is the effect it going to have.

I think you have to give him his freedom. If he wants to leave, let him. If he wants to D, let him. If he believes his best happiness is elsewhere, let him find it. Concentrate on finding your own best happiness with what is available to you right now.

This is unimaginably difficult and painful. I am so sorry it is happening to you.

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S,

Alison has given you some really good advice. Peoples feelings change all the time. Do you have the strength and patience to see this through?

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