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#2895220 05/18/20 01:08 PM
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JujuB Offline OP
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Previous Thread:

Moving on

So want to get some advice....

Background - sorry it’s lengthy

I always wanted to be honest to my son. I never wanted him to think that divorce - unless abuse is the way to go when there are kids involved. I went in not wanting to lie and protect his father but not badmouthing and making it high conflict. My biggest fear, obviously is that he will copy his dad - which a lot of boys do. My son did adjust - mostly because my ex and i are not high conflict. I feel my ex wants bare minimum responsibility without looking too bad to girlfriends/his mom etc. I think maybe he worries about what I know regarding addictions and money too - and just wants to keep me calm. But this ensures a lot of peace too. Unspoken arrangement is I don’t ask for too much money but I get full say.

Now for the most part my son adjusted well. no conflict, and my son actually spends more time with his dad now then he did before the divorce because it’s in the contract that his dad has him every other weekend. Son is now 9 and he tells me he likes having different areas to live in even though he misses me.

My son has always been tough. He’s hyperactive and really gifted - meets ceilings on iq scores. I had thought spectrum but he’s so social that they think the issues are more related to adhd. He argues with me constantly. Very intense. Really immature but also profound. I’m only telling you about the gifted stuff - because it actually is a form of special education and it comes with a slew of really tough issues. I don’t want people to think I’m bragging - because I know a lot of these kids actually don’t do well.

I struggle with guilt if I’m too strict - since I know he hasn’t had things easy and since some of the newer models tell me to validate and their theories are completely different then how I was raised (you respect elders - strict consequences- )
I think part of me worries that because I didn’t get listened to - I ended up in bad relationships. But then my son will completely manipulate me too if I don’t get strict like my parents.

So the other day he said how his parents divorce was because his daddy was keeping secrets - but now he thinks it’s really because I argue so much. (During an argument about how he feels like he always has to listen to me - I’m his mom and yes he does).

How do I handle comments like that? It’s disrespectful. His dad was an addict - not coming home and secretely depleting marital funds. of course I was arguing with him. But what do I say to a kid - to keep him respectful but also to shut that sh!t down ASAP.

Last edited by job; 05/18/20 02:29 PM. Reason: added link to previous thread

M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2895233 05/18/20 02:40 PM
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Hey Juju,

Just a few thoughts of mine, not sure how helpful they will but it relates to some of my own history.

I'm sure its a difficult situation all around and I know you probably have mixed signals from different experts on how to tackle the challenges there. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with discipline and you should not at all tolerate that type of disrespect. However, you shouldn't be engaging in it either, not by arguing. You have a place in your sons life and that wont always be pleasant nor will you be his friend. I was listening to an audio book by Jordan Peterson and he had a section on this. It went something like "Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them". He mentions how as parents one of our purposes is to teach our kids appropriate behavior in society so they can turn into healthy adults. He briefly goes into using the minimum amount of force (or correction maybe) to teach a kid who is acting badly how the behavior is not appropriate. For some kids that means having something taken away as a punishment, for others its a time out, others may need some physical correction (smack on the hand up to spanking, even slight restraint). I know much of this is controversial (spanking for instance), but personally the way he laid it makes complete sense and I honestly agree with it. What I really took away from the chapter was that we can either teach our kids appropriate ways to handle it now, or society will later. And when society does it, it will be a much more difficult and harsh result. In the short term every time you allow a kid to do something like that, you allow a bit more resentment to form, which will only contribute to things as time goes by.

Another point is, I don't think discipline with a child and validation need to be a one or the other choice. You can have both and even use them at the same time. its ok for a child to be upset that he has a toy taken away and you can even validate their emotions. No emotions are wrong, but actions from them can be. However, you can also be firm and tell them why they have the toy taken away and that you will not tolerate that type of behavior. I know its not as easy as it sounds, but from my own perspective it works. Honestly the most difficult part is me getting my own emotions into check so I can avoid overreacting to them in the moment. You are the parent, there is no arguing with you or disrespect, and if there is, there needs to be consequences to it.

My son was crying yesterday and furious with me just before because he lost his tablet privileges and was "bored". He wasn't listening to me the day before or that morning and I got fed up and took it away. He has this habit lately with arguing with me on everything. I know the circumstances and behavior aren't the same so the behavior may be different. My son will drive me insane by not listening. I can literary tell him something and he goes off into his own world and will walk the opposite direction of what I just told him to do. I don't even think he does it on purpose, he just instantly loses his focus, but it absolutely infuriates me. There isn't much of the rebellious behavior right now, I usually shut that down direct disrespect very quickly. Yelling and getting super angry didnt work, but being calm and enforcing boundaries and consequences usually works. I get some of it from my daughter rarely but I just stand my ground and it passes after a big. For me its important to talk with them when both of us are calm and explain actions and consequences and even validate their feelings around it.

Another part I wanted to touch on was the reasons for your divorce. I don't see explaining to him the reasons or bad talking your ex as productive at all. This is a more extreme example but when I was little both my parents would talk badly about the other. Most of this talking was over the reasons they split. It involved drugs, cheating and other insults that may or may not be true. The only think it ever did was make me feel like [censored] and make me resent them. To the point I nearly disowned them when I was 18. When my mother would say anything about my father, I would take it as personally toward me, even if she never intended that that way. Same when he would talk to me. Looking back I see in the moment they were just trying to relieve themselves of pain and explain why our lives were in this broken family, but it never did anything good for me. Anything negative you say about your ex will only drive a wedge between you and your son. That's how I avoid talking about it to my kids, I know the long term damage it does. At this point when my kids ask me anything about it I'm honest to a degree, but they don't need specific details. "Me and your mother are divorced because that's the decision she wanted to make, I had no say in it. Past that, we both may have had issues in the marriage, but she choose to end it". that being said, again, I don't think you should tolerate his anger toward you. HOWEVER, do not argue with it and try to make your point. That will only backfire in the long run. I would find a way to say something like "He left, his choice. Why our marriage was in the condition it was in is more complicated and each side may have their own perspectives". You've mentioned in the past he knows how to get under your skin and its likely what hes trying to do here. You have to be the one to break that back and forth cycle and stop feeding into it. Stop reacting to it. I know that's not easy, but you can do it.

Also, looking back no matter what my parents said, I formed my own opinion on what happened between on and much of that is based on their actions. The parent who tried to "explain how bad the other is" usually took more of the fault in my mind. The best possible thing you can do is let go of those reasons. Some things will come out in time, but you don't need to say it, and trying to only backfires on you.

I'm not sure if any of that really helps but I thought I'd share.


Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
JujuB #2895234 05/18/20 02:46 PM
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I don't look at it as protecting the X spouse but rather protecting your children. All kids want to be loved and cared for especially by their mom and dad. By being honest you could be potentially harming that reality. I can speak from my experience of coming from a Divorced family. My dad has his side of the story and my mom has hers. Which one should I believe???? After 46 years of being on this planet I still don't know. I guess it's not important now. I just reassure my daughters that no matter what happened their mom and dad love them very much and both of us would do anything for them

Your son sounds like the Doc's son......she shuts that [censored] down and doesn't entertain it. Having your son full time as well has to be exhausting. I know that contributes to some of the short responses the Doc gives. It's certainly not right but I have had my moments with my girls as well. She is also concerned about how he will fair in life as he gets older due to his personality. He constantly argues, constantly debates, will correct you if you are wrong, and never accepts what you tell him to do the first time around. It is a constant negotiation with him. I get it in bits and pieces but it is exhausting.

If it was me and one of my daughters made some comment like that I would sit and listen to hear what they had to say. Try to determine why they felt that way. Why do you think daddy was keeping secrets? Why do you feel that mommy argues too much? At least he is expressing himself.


Married 14, Together 17
M: 44, W: 43, D: 8, D: 6
M: 46, W: 45. D: 10. D: 8 (CUR)
Bomb Dropped: 5/28/2017
Separation Date: 6/17/2017
Divorce Filed: 2/7/2018
Divorce Final: 4/12/2018
#2913061 01/20/21 03:05 PM
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JujuB Offline OP
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It’s been a while since I last posted. I can’t even find my old thread.

It’s been 5.5 years since I first came on to these boards and it feels like a lifetime ago. Me and ex got into an argument over bills and he made this comment “I am not your husband or boyfriend or fiancé anymore for you to yell at me like that”. The truth is - there was no yelling - we were texting (no capitilzation or exclamation points or curses ) I was just rationally pointing out that he doesn’t pay me what he’s supposed to.

My first thought to that comment was to respond with “I do not think you you’re my husband I’m grateful your not” etc etc. but instead I realized he was doing what he always does... he throws something out there that will take him off the defensive (deflect) and take on a position of offense. The words he uses are meant to make me look irrational and crazy. And then the pattern has been - I forget about pursuing the money or ignore things like his consistent lateness.

This time I didn’t fall for it and just responded “that’s a really weird comment” didn’t defend myself at all.

But it did make me think how happy I am to not be with him. It did trigger all the trauma and abuse I experienced by him during the divorce and even by my own lawyers that thought I was crazy (until they saw the missing funds and realized it was either a drug or prostitution addiction) . So I’m really triggered by the subtle gaslighting and the insinuations that I am crazy and irrational.

Updates

Anyway - my relationship has been absolutely amazing. It’s just such a different feeling from my marriage - to actually have a partnership with someone that thinks rationally and fairly. It’s about “we” and meeting each other’s needs. We really get along and everyday I feel blessed to have him in my life.

Covid has been tough. I lost a lot of hours but still worked and was not greatly protected through healthcare policy - so kind of had the worst of both worlds. Childcare was more stressful for me then worrying about getting Covid. . I feel like there was no coordination between the schools and real world. Schools were super strict - shut down - and once they were opened they were constantly shutting down or quarantining. But healthcare facilities didn’t have matching guidelines. So childcare was a major problem for healthcare workers. An example - in a school setting any exposure even with masks on and being less then 6 feet away and having negatives tests gets a guaranteed 10 day quarantine. In a healthcare setting if your coworkers child actually has Covid - they come to work and just wear a surgical mask. I’m getting my 2nd vaccination next week and am grateful for that though. Ex did help more with child care then he ever did in the past - but usually I would precede it with something like “there’s a camp that will cost us this amount - can you watch him or should we pay for this”. Babysitting from grandparents during Covid just isn’t safe - especially due to how I am exposed.

My son is struggling and that’s tough to watch. Adhd kids have a lot of social struggles and my heart is breaking. We moved in with my fiancé and with Covid there’s just no socialization or many activities. It’s been hard for him to get along with fiancé’s kids and a lot of it is my sons social skills. They are hard to teach. And it’s been very stressful for me and tough for him ( we had these issues before the move in his old school too - but now it’s just harder to get help) I’m patient- refrain from yelling - give him one on one - focus on positivity. But I’m at a loss.

Anyway I’ve been reading up on everyone and hope to post more.


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer
JujuB #2913064 01/20/21 03:11 PM
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I have linked your threads together. When looking for your "older" threads, click on your name and then click on show forum postings. Once you are in that "que", click on threads created and you will locate all of your threads.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
JujuB #2913071 01/20/21 03:57 PM
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Thanks job


M: 42
H: 43
Twins age 5
WAH in summer

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