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#2895203 05/18/20 02:09 AM
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About two months ago, I discovered that my wife was having an affair after she missed our dinner plans by about 8 hours for no good reason. I'd had that feeling that something was wrong for several weeks or maybe a few months. It's hard to remember exactly when it started. When she came home, I told her that I knew exactly where she was and what she was doing. I really didn't know for sure. I was just pretty certain. After an initial flurry of denials, she admitted the truth and locked herself in the guest room for the night.

Early the next morning, she finally came to bed and began apologizing profusely. I simply told her that she needed to pick one of us and that the one she didn't pick would no longer be a part of her life. And I left it at that. Now, I'll admit that I definitely want to save my marriage and I drew a firm line because I thought she'd pick me. We've been together for 20 years. Until rather recently, we had a good marriage and we have very happy children. And she'd never stopped professing her love and dedication to me even during the midst of all this.

For about a week, she said and did all of the right things. She said a lot of nice things about me and the strength of our marriage before all this happened. But after that first week, she started to pull away from me and then she told me that her feelings had changed and we'd lost that spark. Three days later, she picked him. I told her that I'd prefer to stay married, but that I didn't want her to stay if she didn't love me like that any more. Then, I told her that she should move in with him and that I would be staying in the house. Of course, I still wanted to save my marriage, but I figured that this madness would pass if I just held the line.

Four days later, she left for her mother's house. Initially, we were still talking on the phone and texting like we always had. But I left it to her to initiate the calls and the texts. That continued on for another six days and then it was radio silence. I went through the first few days of no contact without too much of a problem. I was confident that I could outlast her. However, that was misplaced confidence. About a week in, I broken down and called. When she answered the phone, I asked if she wanted to talk and she responded with an ice cold no. There's been minimal contact since that time.

Then, she returned from her mother's house and moved in with the other man. Within days of returning, she raised the issue of divorce and told me what her preferences were for splitting time with the children and dividing the assets. I rejected her preferences, told her that I would only agree to share time with the children equally and that I would be keeping the house. I also reminded her that I did not want to be part of one another's life any longer. This did not go over well at all. She even went so far as to tell me that it was fair to just discard her like that after 20 years.

After eight weeks, it seems that all I have done is encourage her to rush headlong into her new whirlwind romance with the other man (who no doubt has been whispering in her ear and pushing her all along). That was certainly not my intent, but the time to change course seems to have long since passed and it seems like any window of opportunity has long since closed. And if I'm going to go down in flames, this is exactly how I intend to go down.

To make matters worse though, since she moved out, my emotions have begun to run rampant whenever I go to sleep. I manage to keep myself busy all day and to focus on the things I can control and the problems I can solve. But I keep waking up early in the morning after a distressing dream about my wife and I cannot shake it off until 15 to 20 minutes after I get up.

At this point, it looks like my marriage is dead and it seems like the only thing left to do is let go and move on. Probably should have reached out for advice somewhere along the line sooner than this, but as we all know decisive men don't ask for directions until after they've gotten lost and wrecked the car in a ditch.

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Welcome! I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome posting. Please read all of the links as they have a lot of excellent info.

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Me-66, D33,S32


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Originally Posted by Spiral
About two months ago, I discovered that my wife was having an affair after she missed our dinner plans by about 8 hours for no good reason. I'd had that feeling that something was wrong for several weeks or maybe a few months. It's hard to remember exactly when it started. When she came home, I told her that I knew exactly where she was and what she was doing. I really didn't know for sure. I was just pretty certain. After an initial flurry of denials, she admitted the truth and locked herself in the guest room for the night.

Early the next morning, she finally came to bed and began apologizing profusely. I simply told her that she needed to pick one of us and that the one she didn't pick would no longer be a part of her life. And I left it at that. Now, I'll admit that I definitely want to save my marriage and I drew a firm line because I thought she'd pick me. We've been together for 20 years. Until rather recently, we had a good marriage and we have very happy children. And she'd never stopped professing her love and dedication to me even during the midst of all this.

For about a week, she said and did all of the right things. She said a lot of nice things about me and the strength of our marriage before all this happened. But after that first week, she started to pull away from me and then she told me that her feelings had changed and we'd lost that spark. Three days later, she picked him. I told her that I'd prefer to stay married, but that I didn't want her to stay if she didn't love me like that any more. Then, I told her that she should move in with him and that I would be staying in the house. Of course, I still wanted to save my marriage, but I figured that this madness would pass if I just held the line.

Four days later, she left for her mother's house. Initially, we were still talking on the phone and texting like we always had. But I left it to her to initiate the calls and the texts. That continued on for another six days and then it was radio silence. I went through the first few days of no contact without too much of a problem. I was confident that I could outlast her. However, that was misplaced confidence. About a week in, I broken down and called. When she answered the phone, I asked if she wanted to talk and she responded with an ice cold no. There's been minimal contact since that time.

Then, she returned from her mother's house and moved in with the other man. Within days of returning, she raised the issue of divorce and told me what her preferences were for splitting time with the children and dividing the assets. I rejected her preferences, told her that I would only agree to share time with the children equally and that I would be keeping the house. I also reminded her that I did not want to be part of one another's life any longer. This did not go over well at all. She even went so far as to tell me that it was fair to just discard her like that after 20 years.

After eight weeks, it seems that all I have done is encourage her to rush headlong into her new whirlwind romance with the other man (who no doubt has been whispering in her ear and pushing her all along). That was certainly not my intent, but the time to change course seems to have long since passed and it seems like any window of opportunity has long since closed. And if I'm going to go down in flames, this is exactly how I intend to go down.

To make matters worse though, since she moved out, my emotions have begun to run rampant whenever I go to sleep. I manage to keep myself busy all day and to focus on the things I can control and the problems I can solve. But I keep waking up early in the morning after a distressing dream about my wife and I cannot shake it off until 15 to 20 minutes after I get up.

At this point, it looks like my marriage is dead and it seems like the only thing left to do is let go and move on. Probably should have reached out for advice somewhere along the line sooner than this, but as we all know decisive men don't ask for directions until after they've gotten lost and wrecked the car in a ditch.


Spiral, sorry man. I know this is difficult. I am not sure you have made many mistakes here. Most of your actions above were the right actions. Breaking no contact was the lone exception, but you recognize that now. I know it is tough. PAs are like an addiction. It sounds like when you confronted her she was remorseful and tried to end it and stay in the marriage. But then the addiction took back grip and sucked her in. Many wayward wives try to have their cake and eat it too. I think you did the right thing from a respect standpoint by making her choose. We see a lot of situations here and it is a darned if you do, darned if you don't. If you let them stay in both places, they will linger there, and cake eat. This is very damaging from a respect standpoint as the more tolerant to an affair a LBH is, the less respect a WW will have for him. If you force them to choose, then that means you can command a bit of respect, but it also means you may not be their choice.

Given the two options, I think the prospects for Ring down the line is heightened by the second option, regardless of their initial choice. I disagree with your assessment that there is no hope. Rs started in deceptions and lies have a very low chance of long-term survival. Her and the OM can never really trust each other because if they will cheat with you they will cheat on you. So this new R she has started with OM will likely come to an end at some point, either by her doing or his. Likely she will come crawling back to you. I think that is why she reacted poorly to you "discarding" her after 20 years. She wants you squarely in place as Plan B.

Regardless of if she ever comes back or not, you best way forward is still to move on. Being stuck in place, any place, is never healthy. You should be moving forward no matter what! If she comes to her senses in time and comes back while you are still willing to take her back, then you will have a choice to make. Until then you should be moving on and upward. Likely by time she comes around to her senses you will be past it and tell her to kick rocks.

Be proud you stuck up for yourself and commanded respect. You didn't win the girl, but you won her respect. You pretty much told her "Heck no, I will not sit by and allow you to keep me on the back-burner while you run around with an OM. And while there is sadness and pain at her choice, hold your head high that you stuck to your guns. So many LBSs allow their WW to walk all over them while openly cheating with an OM unabashedly. Personally, I'd prefer what you did to that any day of the week!

So yes, you are in pain. You are having the dreams and trouble sleeping. We've all gone through similar. All I can tell you is to give it time. Continue to work on yourself. Keep yourself busy like you are doing. Maybe look into IC to sort out everything. And keep moving forward.

Last edited by Steve85; 05/18/20 02:17 PM.

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Originally Posted by Spiral
About two months ago, I discovered that my wife was having an affair after she missed our dinner plans by about 8 hours for no good reason.

I am really sorry to hear that my friend but you came to the right place.

Originally Posted by Spiral
I'd had that feeling that something was wrong for several weeks or maybe a few months. Early the next morning, she finally came to bed and began apologizing profusely. I simply told her that she needed to pick one of us and that the one she didn't pick would no longer be a part of her life. And I left it at that. Now, I'll admit that I definitely want to save my marriage and I drew a firm line because I thought she'd pick me. We've been together for 20 years. Until rather recently, we had a good marriage and we have very happy children. And she'd never stopped professing her love and dedication to me even during the midst of all this.

It is common for the WWs to flip flop in the beginning. She is being ruled by her emotions.

Originally Posted by Spiral
For about a week, she said and did all of the right things. She said a lot of nice things about me and the strength of our marriage before all this happened. But after that first week, she started to pull away from me and then she told me that her feelings had changed and we'd lost that spark. Three days later, she picked him.

This is actually predictable. She is choosing the shiny new sports car compared to the old reliable family truckster.

Originally Posted by Spiral
I told her that I'd prefer to stay married, but that I didn't want her to stay if she didn't love me like that any more. Then, I told her that she should move in with him and that I would be staying in the house.

This was a very good statement and uncommon for newbies to handle it with strength.

Originally Posted by Spiral
Four days later, she left for her mother's house. Initially, we were still talking on the phone and texting like we always had. But I left it to her to initiate the calls and the texts. That continued on for another six days and then it was radio silence. I went through the first few days of no contact without too much of a problem. I was confident that I could outlast her. However, that was misplaced confidence. About a week in, I broken down and called. When she answered the phone, I asked if she wanted to talk and she responded with an ice cold no. There's been minimal contact since that time.

Very predictable response and don't beat yourself up over it.

Originally Posted by Spiral
I rejected her preferences, told her that I would only agree to share time with the children equally and that I would be keeping the house. I also reminded her that I did not want to be part of one another's life any longer. This did not go over well at all. She even went so far as to tell me that it was fair to just discard her like that after 20 years.
Another great response by you! You are going to be a good student of DB. Of course she wants her cake and eat it too. More on that later.

Originally Posted by Spiral
After eight weeks, it seems that all I have done is encourage her to rush headlong into her new whirlwind romance with the other man (who no doubt has been whispering in her ear and pushing her all along). That was certainly not my intent, but the time to change course seems to have long since passed and it seems like any window of opportunity has long since closed. And if I'm going to go down in flames, this is exactly how I intend to go down.
Again, you did the right thing. You want the affair to burnout which it most likely will in time.

Originally Posted by Spiral
To make matters worse though, since she moved out, my emotions have begun to run rampant whenever I go to sleep. I manage to keep myself busy all day and to focus on the things I can control and the problems I can solve. But I keep waking up early in the morning after a distressing dream about my wife and I cannot shake it off until 15 to 20 minutes after I get up.

This is all very normal and will subside in time.

Originally Posted by Spiral
At this point, it looks like my marriage is dead and it seems like the only thing left to do is let go and move on. Probably should have reached out for advice somewhere along the line sooner than this, but as we all know decisive men don't ask for directions until after they've gotten lost and wrecked the car in a ditch.

Think of this as a marathon and the gun just went off. You have many miles to run and there will be ups and downs in the process. You life as you know it will never be the same but you will come out of this stronger. I am very hopeful that you have a chance to bust this divorce.

Post often and good luck!

Last edited by LH19; 05/18/20 02:22 PM.

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Spiral -

I rarely if ever post on anyone else's thread b/c I am new and have no idea how to help anyone. But, I do read alot of ppl's posts and have to say how amazed I am at how well you, in particular, have handled all this! I mean, I just wish I had the same backbone you had throughout all of this. Is this a guy thing that they can do the detaching thing so well? Anyway.

To me it sounds like your DB'ing like a pro. Hang in there b/c I know regardless, this is just soul crushing.

Last edited by MistySea; 05/19/20 05:00 PM.

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Misty,

I don't think it was backbone and I'm definitely not detached in any way. In fact, detaching is my biggest weakness. The situation simply called for immediate and decisive action. I wanted to save my marriage, to keep my family intact, and to stay in my own home. My best chance at doing that was for her to decide to end her affair and making that decision before any further bonding took place. I have no doubt that forcing her to choose at that moment was the highest percentage chance of making those things happen. When your spouse is having an affair, your relationship with your spouse is going downhill and your emotional connection is rapidly disappearing. Your only hope of getting them back is for them to chose you over the OM or OW and you want them to make that choice as soon as possible before the OM or OW gets a hold of them. When you think about it that way, there's no downside to an ultimatum and I bet there are a whole lot of ultimatums made. After all, like me, there are many people who naturally turn to such tactics in times of crisis.

The only difficulty comes in following through on the ultimatum if they chose the other person. But you simply cannot back down and preserve your dignity. That's why, I held firm. Also, I figure forcing her to move in with OM before she's ready is to move out is much better than holding on until she is ready to move out. For most of us, we have absolutely nothing to more to lose.

In doing what I did, I avoided a lot of the pain other people are going through. She didn't tell me she wanted a divorce. She didn't tell me that the affair was all my fault. She didn't tell me I was a terrible husband. She apologized to me. She told me what a great husband I had been and thanked me for treating her so well. After she decided that she couldn't let go of the OM and needed to see where that led, I stopped asking her about "us" and told her to discuss OM or "us" with me. We both know it will only hurt my feelings.

As for DB'ing, the strategy is pretty easy to implement when your spouse has started living with the OM and pulled away. I don't have anything to do other than nothing.

Spiral

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Interesting day. She's begun hanging around the house a bit more and sure is taking her sweet time moving her things out. But the kids are here most of the time, so that's understandable. And of course, I will not pick them up or drop them off at her place. So the exchanges always happen here.

She did the dishes and the laundry this morning. Don't know what that means, but I'm not going to acknowledge it or encourage it. Instead, I'm making sure that the laundry is done and that all of the dishes are clean every night before I go to bed. I'm also going to make sure I don't oversleep again like I did this morning.

She's even started texting me a bit. I responded to two texts asking how our children were doing in recent days and that's it. She also texted me that she was thinking of me and sent a heart emoji. The irony of her texting me that from his place was not lost on me. I'm sure she wanted me to text back that I was thinking of her too. I did not even bother to look at the phone for several hours. Tonight before she left with the children, she made sure my daughter gave me my phone. I had her put it on the counter, where my daughter will find it waiting when she comes home tomorrow morning.

Nevertheless, it's full stem ahead on feathering her new nest, so none of these inconsistent signs mean anything. However, she was upset this morning and was having a bad day. I don't know why. I did not ask. But I am wondering, so I'll need to continue working on my detachment. I think I still have an extremely bad case of attachment.

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Originally Posted by Spiral
I don't think it was backbone and I'm definitely not detached in any way. In fact, detaching is my biggest weakness. The situation simply called for immediate and decisive action.

It takes a really long time to detach. Months if not years.
Originally Posted by Spiral
The only difficulty comes in following through on the ultimatum if they chose the other person. But you simply cannot back down and preserve your dignity. That's why, I held firm.

Good job holding firm. We would have preferred a boundary over the ultimatum but you did well. I will post about boundaries below.
Originally Posted by Spiral
She apologized to me. She told me what a great husband I had been and thanked me for treating her so well. After she decided that she couldn't let go of the OM and needed to see where that led, I stopped asking her about "us" and told her not to discuss OM or "us" with me. We both know it will only hurt my feelings.

Great job setting a boundary about discussing OM. Be prepared to enforce it.
Originally Posted by Spiral
As for DB'ing, the strategy is pretty easy to implement when your spouse has started living with the OM and pulled away. I don't have anything to do other than nothing.

You have no idea how hard it is for people to implement.
Originally Posted by Spiral
And of course, I will not pick them up or drop them off at her place. So the exchanges always happen here.

Good!
Originally Posted by Spiral
She's even started texting me a bit. I responded to two texts asking how our children were doing in recent days and that's it. She also texted me that she was thinking of me and sent a heart emoji. The irony of her texting me that from his place was not lost on me. I'm sure she wanted me to text back that I was thinking of her too. I did not even bother to look at the phone for several hours. Tonight before she left with the children, she made sure my daughter gave me my phone. I had her put it on the counter, where my daughter will find it waiting when she comes home tomorrow morning.

Do not respond to anything that doesn't have to do with the kids. This is what we call temp checking. Is he still plan B?
Originally Posted by Spiral
Nevertheless, it's full stem ahead on feathering her new nest, so none of these inconsistent signs mean anything.

You are correct. It does not.
Originally Posted by Spiral
However, she was upset this morning and was having a bad day. I don't know why. I did not ask. But I am wondering, so I'll need to continue working on my detachment. I think I still have an extremely bad case of attachment.

Likely guilt. Not remorse. Know the difference

Dude you are doing great. I like your chances if you can keep it up!

Think about boundaries like this:

Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.

Your wayward wife can do whatever she wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling her what to do.

But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.

She's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because she'll be outside your circle. She's free to go on and draw her own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.

She can do WHATEVER she wants. She's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices she wants.

BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.

That's all. Not about trying to control her at all. Tell her she's totally free. She has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever she wants.

If she's saying you have to let her into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HER controlling YOU.


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Spiral, as the others said you seem to have naturally grasped DB'ing even before finding the book, so well done! I want to share a story with you just so you know that while things seem bleak right now, there IS still reason to have hope. A good friend of mine's wife left him and immediately moved in with an OM. I'll spare you the details but it was just like your story and so many others here. Wasn't happy, had to move on, blah blah. They actually owned a business together. They sold it and split the proceeds. Sold the house and split that as well. He did not talk to her for 2 years afterwards. Zero contact (they both had kids, but not together). Then she started messaging him, just "hey how are you" stuff. They met for coffee. Then lunch. Then a movie. Basically they started the whole dating ritual all over again. They've been back together for 3 or 4 years now and are happier than ever. What she went through had everything to do with her internal struggles and little to do with him. She had to go through all that to realize that what she left behind was the man she wanted all along.

Originally Posted by Spiral
She did the dishes and the laundry this morning. Don't know what that means, but I'm not going to acknowledge it or encourage it.


She's trying to keep her foot in the door, keep you on as Plan B. She doesn't know if OM will work out, so she wants to keep her options open. Not acknowledging or encouraging it is the perfect response. No positive OR negative reaction, just no reaction.

Quote
She's even started texting me a bit. I responded to two texts asking how our children were doing in recent days and that's it. She also texted me that she was thinking of me and sent a heart emoji. The irony of her texting me that from his place was not lost on me. I'm sure she wanted me to text back that I was thinking of her too. I did not even bother to look at the phone for several hours.


Good good good. My buddy came by it naturally just like you, he didn't pursue or anything, just let her do what she was going to do.

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Nevertheless, it's full stem ahead on feathering her new nest, so none of these inconsistent signs mean anything.


Exactly right.

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I think I still have an extremely bad case of attachment.


Of course you do, that's normal and natural. But you're not acting on it, and that's the important part. Keep it up!


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Spiral, what you've done is very close to what we would recommend to maximize your chances of reconciliation--not accepting sharing her, or friendship, or subpar custody. No contact.

You're in a world of hurt, but the strength is obvious in your self-esteem to do these things. It bodes well for your chances of reconciliation 3-12 months from now if/when things fizzle out with the OM.

By then, of course, you may have already moved on. If you're even open to another try with your wife, you'd require her to do trust-building and other consistent self-work to avoid repeating the past.



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The only difficulty comes in following through on the ultimatum if they chose the other person. But you simply cannot back down and preserve your dignity. That's why, I held firm.


Spiral - We are in the exact situation played out in 2 different ways - you moved forward with the ultimatum knowing that you had a short time to utilize the connection you had - and she left - but seems like she is sniffing around with interest.

On the other hand, I did not issue an ultimatum, my WAH is here with me - in a diabetic comatose after eating so much cake - he is with the OW and here in the house with his family and we are going on about 2 months or so. So painful.

So, at my expense, just wanted to point out to others what path you should take - even though everything about you might be saying otherwise. All of this is just a really hard spot for anyone to be in.

My WAH does not like change, and he would internally prefer that I make this decision for him, so he can say he was kicked out vs leaving his family. Who knows? They lie.all.the.time.

Spiral, keep posting, I have my personal posts out there if your interested to read where I am at - I would actually appreciate your input and I not going to hijack your personal thread. It sounds like our timelines are the same, but with different trajectories. I do want to know how things are progressing for you - I hope this works out for you and your w - in the way you want it to. Though I would like to just SHOUT that we did not deserve this awfulness and betrayal.


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Misty,

I don't think that she's sniffing around with interest. In our situations, we jump at the chance to see positive signs at the smallest gestures. But the truth of the matter is that there are numerous other reasons why she keeps coming around. These days, the kids spend the majority of the time at the house, so it could be that she wants to be around them. It could be that she has strategic reasons for sticking around the house because she's planning to move forward with a D. It could be a dozen other things. And it almost certainly isn't a genuine interest in me.

She does feel guilty about things. She repeatedly walks into the room where I work and stares at me with some sort of sadness. She'll tell me that I am a good man. She even told me she loved me a few days ago. But I just say "Ok" and ignore it. Some of the vets have said that guilt is worthless and remorse is everything. I'm beginning to understand that. Her guilt doesn't make me feel any different and her saying nice things doesn't change anything. And no matter how guilty she feels or what little things she does, she keeps pulling away from me and closer to him. Slowly, but surely her things are disappearing from around the house. I've never mentioned it because it doesn't make a lot of sense to fight over small possessions and because she's only taking those things that are personal to her like clothes, jewelry, decorative items, etc. Plus, I never see her do it since we're rarely in the same room and I try to stay away from her.

She seems to have rushed headlong into her new life and has left her old life and her old responsibilities far behind. It's hard for me to get my head around the whole thing because things seemed to be going so well, even during the last few months before it happened (although, in retrospect, she was probably overcompensating for the affair or trying to decide who was Plan A and who was Plan B). We were making all sorts of plans for the future, for vacations, and she was talking about us being together for the rest of our lives. However, it doesn't surprise me that she would run away from her problems or look to someone else to solve those problems. She's run away before and she almost always turned to me to solve her problems. Looking back, that was a much bigger problem than I understood. Heck, I still don't understand why this happened. But it sure doesn't matter cause it happened and I've got to live with it.

Now, she's completely moved on and relegated me to the past. If she's having any doubts or second thoughts, I can't tell. So, I'm focusing on DBing and trying to do the same. The great thing about doing nothing is how peaceful it is. I read about other people's situations and there's so many hurtful words and actions. Mine is very quiet and she knows not to bring up the OM or the relationship. Boundaries are great. I bet detachment is too, but I still haven't found any of that. I think just seeing her now and then each day is enough to keep me attached.

I'm considering telling her that I never want to see her in person again. But the last time I said that, she flipped out and that was before I stopped texting, calling, and talking with her. Of course, the fact I went dark on all of my ex-girlfriends was of great solace to her.

Otherwise, things are going great here and I still recommend kicking them out if you think they'll listen. It may drive them straight into the arms of the OM/OW, but it's great for you.

-Spiral

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Hi Spinal,

You sound in a healthy place. Stay strong!



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Some of the vets have said that guilt is worthless and remorse is everything. I'm beginning to understand that. Her guilt doesn't make me feel any different and her saying nice things doesn't change anything. And no matter how guilty she feels or what little things she does, she keeps pulling away from me and closer to him.


Spiral -
Its impressive that you are able to DB so well amidst all the emotional pain that your feeling. I just want to give a nod to that, firstly. Your quote above about guilt is what I have also read from vets, its not what they are saying but what they are doing. I am forever hooked on seeing more into those little things than I should...and thats what keeps me in this spot spinning. Your not spinning, it seems. And your taking care of the kids? I am sorry if thats the case, its hard for me to hear that a mother would make that choice.

So similiar, my M was pretty good, sex life was great, nothing really rocky preceding all this in the last few months - of course the A was raging, though I did not know it. I am envious of the peace you have found in the quiet of your situation. I am front and center to un-ending drama - in that I can not win in any situation.

Your in a good a spot Spiral - I know you mean well saying kicking them out would drive him to the OW - and that really hurts to read - but I hear you. Keep posting, appreciate all your insight that you share on your journey.


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No, we share the children equally. But she's been spending a lot of her time with the kids at the house and a slowly growing amount of time at OM's place as she feathers the nest. For some reason, she wants her family, friends, and children to think that she decided to leave me first, then started dating OM, and then moved into OM's place a few months later. I don't know if anyone believes the story, but she's pretty dedicated to it. I haven't said anything about the situation to anyone or felt the need to challenge her story. Since it means the kids spend more time with me I haven't complained, but I am sure that she wants to get to the point where the kids are with her at OM's half of the time. Time will tell how he feels about having three kids around. Of course, I bet she'll probably start intruding on my half of the time with the kids one day. Or maybe she'll savor the alone time with OM. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

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Well, I am not optimistic about my chances of reconciliation. Turns out that she's already filed for divorce and that she's engaged to marry OM. I think I took the news like a champ. I told her that I would not stand in her way and said that I hoped she'd find happiness with the path she chose. I did not cry, yell, or scream. In fact, she did the crying, not me. I really like to keep my chin up and control of my emotions in front of others.

It is looking increasingly likely that I will be divorced long before things fizzle out with the OM. I've read a lot about limbo, confusion, doubts and second thoughts. But I sure haven't seen any of that. This seems like an unstoppable train speeding to its destination. I think the rapid downward spiral makes it easier to accept and easier to DB. It really seems like my chances of reconciliation are pretty much zero. This is about as close to a complete and total rejection as I can imagine.

I wonder if I should let myself cry about this now. If there's ever a time when its appropriate for a man to cry, this seems like it.

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Spiral,

There is nothing wrong with a grown man crying. Crying helps to relieve some of that stress and tension that you've been under.

As for your W marrying the OM, it's going to take some time for the euphoria of a new relationship to wear off and when it does, she's going to realize that nothing really has changed in her life except her bed partner. There will be bills to pay, house to clean, meals to prepare, etc. The routine won't change much at all. Also, the more time that they spend together, the more likelihood that they will begin to see all of their flaws and realize that the fantasyland isn't what it's cracked up to be. It may take a couple of years for this to happen...

Don't ever assume that everything is over. Anything can happen between now and the divorce date. However, I will suggest that you continue to live your life to the fullest, be kind and and patience w/yourself. Some day, if she decides to reconnect w/you and wants to reconcile...you will be the one to determine whether or not to try again. Who knows...you just might meet a very nice lady who is far more settled and mature and enjoys you for who you are and wants to spend her life w/you. It will then be your XW's loss.

Keep the focus on you.


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Tears are good. They help wash away the pain. I used to feel like there was a pool of them, just behind my eyebrows and every now and then they would spill out.

I was at the time a 52 year old professional man so not someone who you would imagine crying. My daughter told me that during the time after bomb-day that it was the first time she'd ever heard me cry.

So - if you feel you need to let it out, it can do you a lot of good.


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Spiral, crying is a need.

Stay strong man. Have that cry. Keep DB, you are doing well there.


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I used to break down in the shower. Wash those tears down the drain.............................


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Spiral,

I'm real sorry to read this. You did take the news like a champ and demonstrated poise and class under difficult circumstances. You've conducted yourself like a man throughout all of this, letting it be known you were never going to compromise your integrity and your self-respect.

Nothing wrong with a good cry every now and then during times like this, in fact I have one scheduled for later today while on a hike in the woods while far from others.

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Spiral -
Your w is having some serious issues to jump from a marriage and right into another one so quickly. That is just bizarre behavior that anyone can see around her. Hopefully she has someone in her family that is counseling her on how rash this is.

Regardless, I know that this is devastating for you - I can only imagine. I am so sorry that this has unfolded in such a harsh way. I don't understand how someone who loved us so dearly at one time can be so cruel now. I hope that karma bites them in the a@@ - and they get theirs in their next round. Just know that the following marriage has a pretty low chance of survival statistically speaking.


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Originally Posted by Spiral
Well, I am not optimistic about my chances of reconciliation. Turns out that she's already filed for divorce and that she's engaged to marry OM.

Most relationships fail--and theirs started with dishonesty. Your shot will likely come when she sees the reality of day-to-day life together and less time with the kids, or the once convenient relationship runs its course. By then you may have decided not to retry with a cheater, when there are many great women out there.

I do wonder what drove the speedy engagement--e.g., the affair has been ongoing longer than you realized, or your ex is afraid to be alone. Great job staying strong! Don't be afraid to cry alone.



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Well, I did not end up crying...or at least yet. By entering into the speedy engagement, OM is probably trying to draw a sharp contrast with me. She always felt that it took me too long to propose. She probably accepted because she got swept away by her emotions. That would not be out of character for her.

But I don't have any idea how long this has been going on. At the outset, I asked, but she refused to tell me. That was the last question I asked about it because it doesn't really matter to me. If we were reuniting, it might be useful to know more information. If we're not, I cannot see what good the information can do me. We're also at that point where I am the villain in her life story and I ruined everything. So, it seems wisest not to ask questions or discuss anything.

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Given the speed with which everything has gone downhill, I suppose I am doing pretty good. Still haven't had that cry yet and I don't think that I will. Doing nothing is actually pretty easy when you're no longer living together. I've stopped checking for texts and waiting for the phone to ring. I don't even think about checking. Of course, I still think about her and the entire situation all the time. And I'm very sad about it. I struggle with detachment. I've read the entire detachment thread repeatedly and I just cannot will myself to stop feeling things.

I'm getting the hang of validating her feelings when she tells me she's upset about something. I nod my head and say "I understand you are feeling upset about X." It definitely makes her feel better than when I used to ignore her feelings. It seems like another one of those too little, too late things though. But this is going to be an awesome life skill. I can tell that people love having their feelings validated.

She seems upset a lot these days, even more so than when we were living together (of course, she was faking it at the end and trying to be a perfect wife as a cover). But with DBing, I manage to stay out of her way when she's upset. Of course, I've figured out why she's upset. It's being here with me. I was thinking that maybe it wasn't so great living with OM, but that is probably just wishful thinking.

She mentioned OM's name the other day in front of me and I reminded her that his name was not to be spoken in my presence. I feel like this alpha male thing is doing nothing but paving the way to divorce. On the other hand, maybe some other woman will find it attractive and I can learn from my mistakes this go round.

Otherwise, DBing is very quiet and peaceful. It is definitely working for me. But as I approach the end of the third month of my sitch, there's no apparent progress on the R front and she seems 100% invested in her new relationship. Still, the reality of the situation is much easier to deal with than being afraid of her choosing the OM. And I am thankful that I am not in an IHS. That seems like the worst.

She's also begun making comments here and there about why she feel out of love. In short, she thinks that I did not pay enough attention to her and that I did not make her my highest priority until it was too late. She's itching to tell me this is all my fault if I ever give her the chance to do it.... or maybe she wants to explain why OM is so much better than me. At this point, I cannot see why I would subject myself to that.

Finally, I must confess that this housekeeping thing is a lot more work than I thought. On the nights when I don't have the kids with me, I have to catch up with my cleaning so the place doesn't look terrible.

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Originally Posted by Spiral
She mentioned OM's name the other day in front of me and I reminded her that his name was not to be spoken in my presence. I feel like this alpha male thing is doing nothing but paving the way to divorce. On the other hand, maybe some other woman will find it attractive and I can learn from my mistakes this go round.

Hi Spiral,

Well, she's already filed for divorce and is engaged to the OM. The way to divorce is well-paved. What 'alpha male' behaviors do you believe are working against you? I'd feel uncomfortable delivering that line, "X is not be to spoken in my presence." I'd probably tweak it to, "I won't listen to you talk about X."



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HI Spiral - from one villain to another....ha,

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I struggle with detachment. I've read the entire detachment thread repeatedly and I just cannot will myself to stop feeling things.


I struggle with this too. And then add that its supposed to be 'loving' detachment, and that makes it even so much more complicated. If you find anything that helps to explain the how, please share...and I will do the same.

I think its impressive that you tolerate your W going on and on about herself, just so selfish of her, really. I am on the other spectrum, I get nada from him - no talking or sharing. And that is tough for me. I miss having him to talk to.

And on the opposite spectrum, H will not share anything about the OW. I would not want to hear about that anyway. It would really hurt to have the OW name spoken, so I agree that you made a valid request. I refer to her as 'it'. Its amazing the awful things they say!

Its good that this situation works for you, ie, her out of the house. I am fearful of that and for me this route (H in the house) works better for me. No judgement either way.

Can I ask how your kids are doing? And how you are handling that side? is the custody a friendly arrangement between you two? This is completely selfish on my part, to understand more, so I can put fear aside.

Cleaning? Always a thing. LOL! I clean and meditate. Repeat


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CW,

Thanks for the reality check. The only "alpha male" behavior working against me was the initial decision to make her chose and ask her to move out. She chose him and jumped head first into her new life. Then, she was gone. Nothing else has really happened in my world. She's just gone. Completely gone. And I'm just here living my life. The only things going on in my sitch are the things going on in my head. I decided to give her all the time and space she wanted and she grabbed it and ran.

Thanks for the line. I'll use that one instead if it comes up again. But we really don't talk about these things. Sometimes she'll say one sentence on the way out the door and sometimes I'll validate that sentence. Sometimes I'll ignore it. I don't think it means anything and it is certainly never a discussion. It's just a comment she makes with the intent of making sure I heard what she said and making sure that I don't have an opportunity to actually respond.

From all outward appearances, she has completely distanced herself from me and has never looked back. She's never said anything to express second thoughts. And all actions point towards OM.

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BlueSea,

New name, eh? The kids seem to be doing well. OM is going on a full court press to set up a new kid friendly place, is spending tons of money on that, and is showering them with his time and attention (or so it seems). I've never asked my kids about how they are doing or what they're feeling. But they seem fine. The custody arrangement is entirely friendly for the moment and my place is still the kids' home base. I don't think that she wants to change that for the time being.

Frankly, everything with her is a friendly arrangement. We weren't fighting in the days leading up to discovery and we haven't started fighting since discovery. Everything is completely cordial. And if you saw us interact, you'd probably assume that we were happily married.

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Spiral -

The OM is spending tons of money on the place for the kids? This is also bizarre behavior (to me). No offense but I would think to another man that someone else's kids are extra baggage. Does he have some of his own? maybe that would make it more plausible - that he is trying to blend in the kids with his.

And you were not fighting leading up to it - and not fighting since. I have to tell you Spiral, I just can not get my head around your situation. It boggles my mind.

Keep posting. And don't regret anything you did. Whatever you did, you felt was best at that time. I have learned alot in the past few months, and done alot of wrong things, but we are all figuring it out. No one can say they did it perfectly.

Yeah, I changed my name, why the heck did I use my H's pet name for me here? ugh. And abbreviated, its BS now. ugh. Didnt think that one thru either. lol.

Hang in there,


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I really don't know much about OM and I don't snoop or inquire. But I don't think that he has any children.

My situation definitely boggles my mind too. It really seemed like things were going well before the discovery and she always said that I was her best friend, which is why I felt so comfortable with the ultimatum. Heck, we were still going out on frequent dates together, taking romantic trips, and exchanging gifts. But, obviously, I misjudged the situation and things were going on behind my back. Now, she says that she's no longer attracted to me.

She's still slowly moving everything that belongs to her over to OM's house. Of all the things in my sitch, you wouldn't think that I'd get worked up about her moving her things out. Still, it does bother me. I never see her moving anything, but I walk by and I notice that something's gone. Every time something leaves, I feel like crying for a few moments until the feeling subsides. I suppose that's because I steel myself before my interactions with her and am holding my emotions in check in her presence. Or maybe it's because I am on a timeline drawing closer to divorce with each passing day and it underscores the fact that all signs still point toward that outcome.

Yesterday, however, she did mention that she wants to do things together with the kids. I resisted the urge to tell her that was ridiculous, but it is. And she's starting to spend more time hanging around the house when I have the kids. I don't think she likes to be at OM's house when he's gone.

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CWarrior,

I used your line today - "I won't listen to you talk about X." Probably going to have to use it again.

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Life isn't entirely different when you're separated. In fact, a lot more things stay the same than you initially realize. You've just got to pick yourself up and start moving again. Once you do, it's not so bad. And you do get used to being alone and to your spouse being gone. It's definitely better than I thought it was going to be and it's easier to handle. Of course, I thought it was going to be absolutely terrible. It isn't.

It does stink though. There's not a lot of joy when you're stuck at home, the kids are with her and the OM, and you're bored. It does seem to get better every day, so there will probably be some actual joy on the other side of this. I'm just marching toward better days. And I have plans on rebuilding my life without her.

Even though she isn't around much, my spouse has taken notice of my positive mental attitude, how well I'm taking care of the house without her, and how I am tackling long deferred projects. So, for those of you wondering if your spouse will notice your changes if you're separated, they will eventually. You just have to wait for them to notice. Still, it doesn't seem to have had any impact on my sitch. Not that I was expecting it to. That's what the book said might happen and I'm sure she expected me to pick myself up quickly.

Of course, my sitch really doesn't have that much to do with me. She fell madly in love with someone else and left everything behind to see what life with him would be like. There never was anything I could do or say to counter that type of thinking. I just had to let her go and wish her the best of luck. For the moment, she seems very happy.

It's been more than three months since I told her to leave unless she was 100% committed to me. I don't regret it one bit. I'm sure I'd do the same thing ten times out of ten. But my problem really isn't letting her go, it's accepting how easy it was for her to let me go. I thought she loved me and she'd have a hard time letting me go. That's why I went with the ultimatum and no contact.

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Just a question, why did the kids go with her?


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She has the kids half of the time and I have them the other half of the time.

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Originally Posted by Spiral
She has the kids half of the time and I have them the other half of the time.


Thanks for the clarification. That wasn't the way it read above.


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I seem to be making a bit of progress on the detachment front. When I saw her today, I didn't feel that magnetic pull toward her that I always used to feel. She seems more and more like an ordinary person with each passing day. But I don't want to overstate the point, I still need to make a lot of progress on the detachment front and I'm definitely still attached.

However, here are some things that have helped me detach. First, minimal contact has been a spectacular help for me on all fronts. I don't know where I'd be if I were in an IHS. I also don't know where I'd be if she weren't living with OM and already engaged. It probably would be a lot harder to resist the urge to reach out. Under the circumstances, it's easy to resist. Second, it helps that she's taking all of her possessions over to the OM's house. That means there's less and less around the house to remind me of her.

She's noticed that I never reach out to her. Yesterday, she told me that I should text her about the kids from time to time. I looked at her blankly and said okay. But it isn't going to happen and she knows it. I'm definitely going to come out of this sitch with my pride intact. I'm probably going to be divorced at Christmas though. I'm thinking of asking for the kids for Thanksgiving week in even years and Christmas week in odd years. I don't want to share the days.

I wish I could stop her from coming into the house and making herself at home when she picks up the kids. I am sure that it makes it easier for her to deal with leaving. But the law doesn't let me do that. At the moment, I just spend my time in another room. Of course, she comes into my room from time to time, stares at me, and starts talking to me. I suspect she feels guilty or nostalgic, neither of which mean anything.

I wonder why it doesn't bother the OM that she spends so much time at the house with me after she drops off the kids. If I were in a relationship with a cheater, it would definitely concern me. But I'm not in a relationship with a cheater anymore.

Kids are home tonight. Things are good. We'll see about tomorrow though. I need to learn how to thrive when the kids aren't home. Right now, all I do is stay busy and get everything ready for them to come back. It helps take my mind off things, but I need to learn how to enjoy my alone time.

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Stay strong buddy. You are doing extremely well, waaaay better than I was doing at your timeline. The darkest time for me was about 6 months in.

Read about stages of grief. I was reading that you were not crying. I would dare to say that you are still in shock and the reality of situationhas not set in yet. It wil. Nothing wrong with that. You will probably find that the anger inside you will start to build up. That is perfectly normal as well. You have to let the anger out. Hiking in the mountains did wonders for me when I was in this situation and my life was in turmoil.

This is the time to improve yourself and grow into the best version of youself you can be. You have been given time to work on yourself and it is an incredible gift.

Wondering about OM and what is going on in your W's mind is utterly pointles. I can pretty much guarantee you that not even she knows what she wants let alone what she thinks.

Focus on the kids and be the best dad possible. Be their rock, they will need you. I think you might see your W's life dissintegrate and you will not be able to do anything about it. It will be breaking your heart and angering you at the same time.

Do not be upset with yourself.

Stay strong buddy, you are not alone, all of us on these boards have gone through the same things you are going through.

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Vapo,

The advice is greatly appreciated! There was definitely crying in March when I broke NC and she responded to me with stone and ice. There just hasn't been much crying in May, even after she got engaged and filed for divorce. Right now, I am exercising like a mad man, working, and taking care of the house and the kids. It keeps me very busy and that helps with things.

The nights with the kids are great. People always talk about losing half of your time with the kids, but that's another one of those things that's all in your head. Even now, the kids are getting more love and attention from me and it is because they are gone 50% of the time. I take care of everything when they're gone and focus on them when they are here. So, we're both getting a richer and deeper relationship with one another as a result of this mess.

The nights without the kids are tougher, but a full on workout is good for two or three hours of positive mental attitude. Intense cleaning is good for a few more. And the background music definitely helps.

I am making solid progress on most fronts, but detachment is tough. If my WW would leave me alone, detachment would be going better. But she doesn't and always wants to have sweet little interactions when she stops by. I suspect that she wants to keep me very much attached. And boy does she say ridiculous things. If you overheard the one liners she regularly delivers and saw how often she reaches out to hug me, you'd think that she was the LBS and that I'd walked away. I just don't bother posting about what she says cause the vets warned me that they mean absolutely nothing. And the vets are right. Every night, she goes home to OM's house and that's the only sign that matters. It is not a good one and I do not ignore it.

There's little else to report. I am still drawing closer to the big D every day, but it doesn't matter and I don't expect anything different. I am not afraid of any legal proceedings surrounding the big D and I will embrace the big D when it comes. We're all afraid of something and our fears drive our decisions. But I am afraid that she's having an intimate relationship with OM and that she's fallen in love with OM. I am not afraid of anything else. And my fears have come true and I am facing them. It is plenty difficult to deal with and it hurts, but it isn't as bad as I thought it would be. It will take plenty of time to overcome, but everything is getting better day by day. All I need to do is wait for the pain to go away and I am a patient man.

I also understand the significance of momentum, particularly when dealing with a cheating spouse. Today, our sitchs are likely to stay exactly the same. It is not in the cheater's nature to put in the hard work needed to salvage a relationship or to cast aside a romantic relationship. Cheaters have a history of lying, of doing things behind people's backs, and of trying to have their cake and eat it too. Expecting them to operate differently, to take the courageous action of coming home to rebuild a relationship they destroyed, and to give up the other person is pointless. They chose not to do any of those things before they started cheating. So, why would we expect them to do that now and to come home?

Now, it is time to GAL until the kids come home.

-Spiral

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I follow your thread, Spiral - seems we are doing exactly the opposite - so I keep checking in to see how you are. You do seem to be doing well. And handling this very even-keeled.

I am not sure why your W keeps torturing you and keeping you on the hook. I am sure it takes alot of personal fortitude to keep yourself in check. She see's that and is attracted. Clearly, she is trying to hold you on the hook, both cruel and strategic (in such a lame way). I think that is a shared trait with cheating spouses - cruel and strategic.

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It will take plenty of time to overcome, but everything is getting better day by day.

I am seeing the same too. Time is our ally and will drag us across the threshold to healing, someday. I just wish it would happen sooner is all.

Hang in there Spiral, always impressed by how your handling your situation.
Blue


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It all slipped away so suddenly and definitively. There's been such an immediate and powerful change in her attitude toward me. She's still moving full steam ahead towards a D. She seems very happy with her new life and her new freedom. I keep expecting her to miss me or at least express one moment's worth of doubt. But she never does. And I could take lessons from her on detachment.

Things around going well around the old homestead though. The kids are spending a lot more than 50% of their time here and I've figured out how to keep the place running without her help. Of course, it doesn't run quite as smoothly. But every day things are a little easier.

I don't enjoy it when I see her anymore. It hurts me to see her and it would be better for me if I didn't. I wonder if I should tell her that and ask her to leave me alone. I haven't spoken to her on the phone, emailed her, or texted her in several weeks, so it's the only time that we interact and we do have kids. Right now, I'm pretending to be just fine with my awesome new life. I think my act is persuasive and polished, but she's known me for twenty years and she probably knows I'm faking it. It has, however, fooled some of my friends.

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Originally Posted by Spiral
I keep expecting her to miss me or at least express one moment's worth of doubt. But she never does. And I could take lessons from her on detachment.
-Sprial


You have to drop all the expectations. And drop them ASAP. Haveng expectations is only ending up hurting you. Drop expectations and get on with your life.

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Vapo,

Thanks for the reminder. You're absolutely right. Of course, she showed up in my bedroom first thing in the morning, grabbed my hand, and said ILY. The one thing I am looking forward to about divorce is being able to change the locks. I wish I could do it now.

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I would not tell her to leave you alone, just find a way to make it happen without cowering in fear or running. If the kids aren't there she has no reason to be there.

When you start to detach you will hear this
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Of course, she showed up in my bedroom first thing in the morning, grabbed my hand, and said ILY.


and say "You sure have a strange way of showing it".

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At the moment, I just spend my time in another room. Of course, she comes into my room from time to time, stares at me, and starts talking to me. I suspect she feels guilty or nostalgic, neither of which mean anything.


Lock the door.

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I wonder why it doesn't bother the OM that she spends so much time at the house with me after she drops off the kids.

I would try to quit wondering about things like this. The truth is the you don't know if it bothers him or not. It might bother him, he might have 3 other women in the lineup, or a million other things can be true.

You seem really strong inside. Keep strengthening your emotions and mind. You are going to get through this just fine, I can tell.


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All's quiet and nothing new to report. I suppose that's a good thing. The quiet makes detachment easier.

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She suggested that we take a family vacation together this summer. Perhaps I should have asked everyone's opinion before I let her know my thoughts about the proposal. After all, this might be my last opportunity to take a vacation with her and with my children. If I don't accept, she and the OM will take the vacation with my children anyway. And I'll likely have to make a few posts to the board in search of emotional support if my kids are gone for an entire week.

But I gave her my answer right away and, of course, it was an unconditional never. Better start planning what I'm going to do with myself that week.

-Spiral

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That was the right answer Spiral

Be strong. Keep GAL.


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I'm very new to DBing, and not very good at detaching. But I'm also curious about how to balance detaching with my ultimate goal? It seems that Spiral's ultimate goal is for the wife to come back and rebuild the family. Family 2.0 but reusing all the original components... or am I missing something?

So now I'm curious at what point does one provide positive feedback to encourage desired actions. I'm not saying to respond with "love you too" or anything that forward. Obviously, don't want to pursue. Nevertheless, I also don't want my wife to ever think that I am now the one seeking/pursuing the divorce/separation. Accept it, yes. Get a life independent of her, certainly. Getting happy despite her being gone, to all outward appearances. But my goal is still ultimately reconciliation, because GAL alone is still a shadow of GAL with my WAS.

I guess I'm just thinking that if my WAS called tomorrow and said she would go with me to Michele's two-day intensive marriage coaching, wouldn't I say yes? (not that she knows anything about Michele or DB). The reason I'm using the last resort DB is because marriage coaching is not an option for my WAS. She says that she is done and this is not just another call for help. And I understand that asking for it, is pursuing. But if she starts to pursue, even a little, do I shut her down or simply play reluctant?

Not trying to hijack the thread, but just curious in Spiral's situation, because I will probably be there soon. If the wife is one that can't be alone and really just bounced from one man to the next, and now maybe having second thoughts about OM... well is there a point where you want her to know that the door is open? Let her bounce back and then get her to go with to marriage coaching?

It's just that sometimes I'm confused on DBing about where is the line between divorce busting versus moving-on.

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Shane,

welcome to the forum. There is nothing wrong with you having problem detaching. You are so so very new to this. Do not be hard on yourself.

No need for any kind of feedback from your side. You need to fix you first. Do not worry about her. You need to let her go. She has to find her own way, and you butting in will only make her resent you. I must reiterate, you CANNOT do anything to help her. Any interference will be viewed as meddling and controlling. BUTT OUT!

Stop worrying about her, you have your work cut out. And no, You do not need to move on, but it is imperative you move your a$$ forward. Do not get stuck. You have an enormous amount of healing to do. And growing. A lot of things will start to fall into place when you start moving forward.

You need to start enjoying being by yourself, as long as you pine for your EX, she has you on her hook. And as long as she know she has you on the hook, she will not turn back to you, as you are only her plan B. She HAS TO FEEL THE LOSS OF YOU! She has to see that you are not there for her. It sound counterintuitive, but you have to trust me on this.

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Working so will be short.

Spiral good on you for saying no!

Shane, use your own thread after this.
However this:
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because GAL alone is still a shadow of GAL with my WAS.
Might not always be true.

Settle in where you are now, act as if.
GAL and work on yourself sas mucha as possible!

Last edited by Mumin; 06/17/20 08:26 AM.

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Without this board's collective wisdom, I'd be totally confused about the reasons why my future ex-wife stops by 2 to 3 times a day.

-Spiral

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Spiral - Whatever your doing is working with your W - you have pulled back and she seems to be pursuing . Keep doing what works!

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Blue,

Well, whatever I am doing is working for me and that's enough to stay the course. I feel a lot better about things than I did at the outset, but I am not particularly optimistic about saving my marriage. I'm four months in and four months away from divorce. Near as I can tell, she's content with her new life and I don't see her giving up the OM any time soon. Sure, she spends lot of time at our old house with me and with the kids. But I think that's about the kids more than it is about me. When I am home alone, I never hear from her and I never see her. And if she does absolutely nothing, then I'll be single by Christmas. Still, you never know what's going to happen and there's not much reason to worry about it in the meantime.

-Spiral

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Your attitude is a total inspiration. And you really do seem to be a natural at DB.

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Once again, I have very little to report. More time has passed and not much has changed, But I am sleeping better than I was and I am not really depressed about my sitch any more. Sure, it makes me sad from time to time, particularly when the kids are gone and I'm alone. But I'm getting over it slowly. And I am making progress on detaching from her (although there's still plenty more detachment progress to make). DBing has certainly worked wonders for my mental health and taught me to avoid R talks at all costs. That's probably been a lifesaver.

But I don't think that DBing will help save my marriage. There's been precisely zero progress made toward saving the marriage and my sitch will almost certainly result in a D. There's only so much time left and her relationship with the OM seems to be growing stronger and stronger. It's hard to understand how she replaced me so quickly, so completely, and so easily. I know she'd like to discuss the R and tell me that there's blame on both sides. However, I don't inquire and tell her there's no reason to discuss it now if she tries to bring it. I can just read the forums if I want to know what she's going to tell me and I won't believe it anyway.

She still wants to be friends though and she's sad that I never call her or text her anymore. I haven't said that I won't be friends with a cheater, but I've felt like saying it. I suppose that's a terrible idea and, by now, I suspect she has stopped thinking about her relationship with OM as an affair.

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Had a great 3rd and 4th of July, but the morning of July 5th was a depressing one and I was too tired to GAL. Yikes! I guess I'll just have to accept that there will be days like that, particularly on holidays alone. But I bet part of it is having friends who want to discuss the situation and "cheer me up." I think it is better to seek emotional support from the folks on this board than the folks in real life. The people here seem to get it a lot better than the folks in real life. I am doing alright now, but it took quite a few hours to shake off.

Of course, I was able to resist reaching out to her for comfort even though she had invited me to call and to text.

Hope everyone had a good weekend and was able to pull through everything.

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Happy 4th to you and all other Americans!
The swings will come and I believe we have to go through them and process our feelings, but they will also be less frequent over time. For me the frequency is way less and still they are most often triggered by W herself, directly or indirectly. You seem very solid and like som have said, natural to DB. Stay strong!

Thanks for popping by my thread btw.


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Spiral -

Glad to hear you had a good 4th! Those good days will fuel you for the bad ones.

Its always so impressive to read how well you are handling all this, you are so very strong to not fall into the R discussion trap. It really is an awful trap and I get caught up in every time and regret it.

I do agree with you that keeping to the boards is best, I have also tried to talk to folks IRL and there is always advice, well-meaning but irrelevant. Its hard, this is all so hard, especially your point of how they just walk away so easily.

With my situation, I have no recourse then to start really GALing and moving ahead - not really in efforts to DB anymore - but just to start a new chapter.


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Blue -

I don't know if I'm strong or stupid. And I don't care. Today, she asked me if I would always be there for her. I said no because she fired me as her husband and replaced me as her best friend. She didn't say anything else.

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Spiral,

I’m new here but just read your story.

Just popping in to say good job. I just read through your sitch and I gotta say you handled that incredibly. Not saying it was easy for you as I’m sure it was crushing and still is. Just want to give you the props you deserve for standing your ground. Sounds like regardless of what happens, you’ll have your integrity and pride still in tact knowing that you did what you could, lovingly but firmly and that’s so important. Good for you man.
I wish you the best of luck with everything going on.

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At the beginning, it definitely was soul crushing. However, it really isn't soul crushing now. It's still a bummer to have been dumped and cheated on, but life is alright now. There's a tremendous freedom in being single and being in control of your own life. I am enjoying the process of GALing. Things are hard when the house is totally empty, but that doesn't happen that often. All in all, I feel like my sitch is over and we're already D'd. So, I don't spend too much time pondering what the future for us holds (which is probably an entirely separate future).

I don't think there was ever anything that I could have done to change the outcome. She decided to run away from the life we'd built together over the last twenty years, escape from its responsibilities, and pursue something entirely new. For the moment, she seems happier than she was. I'll leave you to guess if she married me young and how old she is now. I bet most of the vets already know.

And I think that everything that Sandi has written captures her mindset precisely. It did not seem that way at first, but it does now. But who knows? I don't ask and I don't need to.

Thanks for checking in and good luck on your sitch.

-Spiral

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Spiral,

Actually got kind of a sense of relief reading this from you for a couple of reasons.

1. It’s good to know that it does eventually go from being something that’s soul crushing to something that’s a bummer.
2. You’re actually finding some excitement going back into the single life and being alone.
3. This one is the biggest. You’re giving yourself some peace in realizing that there is probably nothing that you could have done that would have changed the fact that your wife was going to cheat and abandon the life you guys had built together.

I spend so much of my time trying to think out if there was anything I could have done or any way I could have acted. If maybe I wasn’t such a nice guy she wouldn’t have cheated on me and wanted to divorce me but as you said maybe there’s nothing at all that I could have done and this really is just on her and it’s not about me.

Sounds like you guys got married young, exactly like we did.

Really does give me some hope to see where you’re at with your sitch. I’m sure it’s still not easy but you seem to be healing. Wish you all the best going forward and thanks for giving a young guy a bit of hope for the future when right now I’m having a hard time finding any.

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Spiral - You can take this however you want...but I have wanted to post, but since I don't know anything about anything I felt I should not comment.

You have clearly been following the DB doctrine to the t, no doubt. But what about the one item MWD mentions, keep checking on what works and doesn't work. Is it working?

I think WAW and WAH are different. I see alot of WAH are married to over controlling women, or drama filled, generally a wife that is 'too' much, whether in arguing or in the husband's face a lot in some way. For WAW, I see their husbands were generally cold, non communicative, falling more on the non-emotional side, the put up or shut up mentality. Were you like this? Because if that is the case, then more of that behavior, would just repel.

I am not in your shoes, I am not in your situation - and only commenting based on what I see as a woman whose husband is very short on words or affection. The tables in my situation have turned recently - he was walking and I was wanting him back. Now, its more of a stalemate - we are both trying/considering if this will work. Anyway, when H is being cold (like just this morning) I casually mention, 'why so gruff?' and he doesn't realize that he is being that way and softens. At this point in our situation if he doesn't get that he has to be nice/communicative/kind - then I am going to walk. But the point is, being gruff and distant, is not attractive to a woman/wife that wants affection and kindness demonstratively shown daily. If that drove her to OM, do you think the hard DBing is just showing that you will never soften/change?

What I am saying is if you were gruff before, do a 180 and not be so gruff...if you want it, though it does seem like you have moved on. And the way things sound, its a done D deal at this point. So what is there to lose if you tried a different approach here?

Take it or leave it, I am constantly getting pummeled by the vets for what I do, but always appreciated advice - so I hope you can take this in the intention it was meant. One thing I do agree on, is GAL and detach, those are lifesavers!


Last edited by BlueSea; 07/13/20 05:11 PM.

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Blue,

Your advice is certainly welcome and appreciated. My thread seems a little boring and lonely to me. But to add a little more of the backstory, in the days before BD there was plenty of affection. We traveled to some of the finest hotels, enjoyed spa treatments, room service, and drinks. We went on exciting dates and she sat near the front at her favorite concerts. I never forgot birthdays or anniversaries and had expensive (and sometimes personalized) gifts imported from Europe. I kept the cupboards stocked with her favorite things. I surprised her with flowers and I did some of the housework from time to time. I held her in my arms every night before bed and told her I loved her and wanted to spend forever with her more than once a day. All in all, I thought that we had a fairy tale lifestyle and that we were happily married until something started to seem off in the last 60 to 90 days. Of course, I had to work hard to maintain our lifestyle and spent too much time at work (which was her chief complaint). So, the current approach is a 180 and probably came as a complete surprise to her.

I'm sure she'd love to get back to having me treat her the way that I used to and I'm sure the only thing she really wanted to change about her life was to swap out her boring and responsible old husband for her new and exciting boyfriend. So, I have my doubts about anything resembling pursuit and think that she needs to lose me entirely. That's why I decided to try to DB my way to a reconciliation.

Of course, it doesn't seem to be working at all and I have nothing to lose in terms of my marriage by changing my approach. But hasn't the time for a new approach come and gone? This was the last resort technique and there's nothing left to try. Now, she's deep into the honeymoon phase with OM and the day for the D will come and go long before that phase ends. And from what I can see, OM is putting a massive effort into building her a new fairy tale. So, with that in mind, what do you think?

-Spiral

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Spiral,

First off you're a great guy man.

Secondly,

Reading that last post was like reading a book written about my marriage. Traveling, enjoying events, spa treatments, picking up her favorite things, flowers, helping out with housework, holding her in my arms telling her how much I loved her and how happy I was to be spending the rest of my life with her and her telling me all the same things. I am with you when you say that you thought you had a fairy tale marriage. I did too.

Just like you, I see my wife trading out the responsible, loving husband for an exciting new boyfriend and yes she seems to be in the honeymoon phase with the OM.

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That is too easy an exit...."wife trading out the responsible, loving husband for an exciting new boyfriend". There is more to it than this. Its going to take some introspection to understand what were the motives behind her leaving. I have had a lot of time to understand what growth I need to be a better person and better partner.

Spiral, you had mentioned she had a complaint about you working too late/often and then you brushed it off with "Of course, I had to work hard to maintain our lifestyle"...so there is a piece to that puzzle. You listed off a lot of things as your expression of love, and it seemed that they were mostly action/service oriented - and on paper this sounds great - but was this HER love language that she wanted/needed?

I am not trying to point any blame here at all - I would be the last to do this - but I don't think it had to do with you being too responsible or too boring (sounds like you both did a lot). There are always 2 perceptions to one reality. Be astute, what do you see the OM offering her as far as efforts in building his fairy-tale with her?

You may not do anything with this info for this R (possibly) - but knowing the why will help you for you and your next R. From what I heard from my WAH, during all this, we are very much still on their minds - they may not show it - but there is guilt there and internal conflict. Never give up. Just start thinking what it could have been, and sincerely apologize for it - once - and no more, and go back to your DB. Apologize for the long hours at work complaint, in passing - "I am sorry that I spent so much time at work, I knew that it bothered you because you wanted me to be at home with you more, just wanted you to know that, so sorry". That's it.


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I don't think that it will take too much introspection to understand what the motives behind her leaving were and what I need to do to be a better partner. I think I already know. A few years ago, she used to say that she didn't feel like she was my number one priority and that she felt like I wasn't present. And she was absolutely right. It is something that I tried to hard to change by working less and focusing more of my attention on her. Right after I found out what was happening, I did ask her about those very issues and she said that I had done a great job over the last few years but that it was too little too late. She even said that she'd never felt as loved as she had during the last few years.

But I'm not sure how I feel about apologizing. It would be one thing if she'd walked out because of the issues a few years ago. However, that's not what happened at all.

-Spiral

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Originally Posted by Spiral
My thread seems a little boring and lonely to me.


My thread was similar, but I think it had more to do with me (and you) DB'ing pretty well. People read our updates and don't have much to add. The active threads tend to have LBS's that struggle with DB principles. I think your situation is similar to mine in that the divorce will happen before the affects of the honeymoon with the OM wear off. It feels like a helpless situation.

That being said, I'm now 1 1/2 years post-divorce, and life is good. I have been dating somebody for 10 months who is much better for me than my XW had become. At least, she seems that way now. smile Life on the other side can be good, if you let it.

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Spiral - I guess I am tapped on on what to offer.

Harvey's advice sounds pretty applicable..."Life on the other side can be good, if you let it."

Blue


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...life is already pretty good. My efforts to GAL have really picked up steam and my sitch isn't really much of a bummer anymore. If you let go, you start moving on rather quickly. I had a lot of fun in July that I would not have had otherwise. And I'm starting to be excited about finding out what life is like on the other side.

As far as the sitch goes, nothing has changed and the countdown goes on.

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Thanks Spiral for the update. I know that once I started to embrace what was happening I actually had a bit of excitement about the prospects moving forward. We eventually reconciled but I there will always be a piece of me that wonders what life would have been like.

Bottom line, no matter whether you R or D, you will be fine and even thrive again!


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Not much new to report on my sitch. August and September have been pretty good months and my efforts to GAL have really started to bear fruit (although to be fair, I had a life before and my GAL has really been pouring all of myself into all other aspects of my life). I haven't spun into an hours and hours long depression since the Fourth of July weekend and the bad dreams are mostly a thing of the past. For the most part, I've stuck to DBing pretty well and have given it 100%. Of course, at the outset, I did it thinking that it would save my marriage. But DBing (and IC) have really helped and I credit them with getting me back on my feet and moving forward in 4 to 5 months time after BD.

On the marriage saving front, there hasn't been any progress and it doesn't seem like there was ever any chance whatsoever to turn things around. She has devoted herself to her new life with OM and it seems to be going extremely well for her. I suppose that is for the best since my children spend half of their time with her and the OM. From what I know, OM is embracing the role of a step-father too. Of course, I haven't had any R talks with her, but I get snippets here and there from the kids about their life over there and they seem happy with it. Haven't seen or heard anything to suggest she's having second thoughts or any hesitation. (But what would I know, after all there was an OM on the scene for some period of time and I had no idea). Far as I can tell, this whole "affair fog" thing doesn't actually exist...at least for my wife. Time will tell whether her new relationship will endure, but it plainly is going to endure long enough for me to hit D day.

I also really started to get my swagger back in July and, of course, women started to notice immediately. So, things are going to be all right after all.

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Life keeps getting better and better (although, of course, BD is a pretty low starting point). I rarely think about saving my marriage anymore given all that has transpired. It has been 8 months now. But D day won't be arriving quite as quickly as expected. We were right on the cusp of the D when she started dragging her feet and stalling for time. I didn't see that coming. For all I know, she's still truly, madly, and deeply in love with OM and she is always wearing an engagement ring when I see her. But she stopped short of pulling the last lever. I could have put my foot on the gas, but I did not. I think she's afraid that she won't have any control if there's a D.

Also had a bit of excitement a few weeks ago. She's convinced that I'm seeing someone and is constantly looking for evidence of it. She even told me that it was wrong for me to see someone else when we're still married, that she could move back at any point, and that she would push for D if I was seeing someone else. Considering her relationship with OM and the fact that we were days out from D at that point, the reaction seemed very odd to me. But I said nothing.

I think I've made sound progress toward detachment. DBing certainly will help you save yourself and get you moving forward. And I'm grateful for the board's help in doing that. There just wasn't any chance to save my marriage after BD.

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Originally Posted by Spiral
Life keeps getting better and better (although, of course, BD is a pretty low starting point). I rarely think about saving my marriage anymore given all that has transpired. It has been 8 months now. But D day won't be arriving quite as quickly as expected. We were right on the cusp of the D when she started dragging her feet and stalling for time. I didn't see that coming. For all I know, she's still truly, madly, and deeply in love with OM and she is always wearing an engagement ring when I see her. But she stopped short of pulling the last lever. I could have put my foot on the gas, but I did not. I think she's afraid that she won't have any control if there's a D.

Also had a bit of excitement a few weeks ago. She's convinced that I'm seeing someone and is constantly looking for evidence of it. She even told me that it was wrong for me to see someone else when we're still married, that she could move back at any point, and that she would push for D if I was seeing someone else. Considering her relationship with OM and the fact that we were days out from D at that point, the reaction seemed very odd to me. But I said nothing.

I think I've made sound progress toward detachment. DBing certainly will help you save yourself and get you moving forward. And I'm grateful for the board's help in doing that. There just wasn't any chance to save my marriage after BD.

Spiral


Nice to read your update. It is all so very typical. By that I mean her checking up on you and threatening you with possible divorce if you start seeing someone else. That is just her making sure you stay put and remain her plan B. You need to remove that reassurance from her. I hope you are not reassuring her in any way, shape or form. If you are, you need to stop doing that.

You are doing very well and I congratulate you on that. GAL, keep living your life and prosper. Enjoy the new you.

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Hey Spiral, would love to hear an update on how you're getting on?


Me: 40 W:41
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Originally Posted by Vapo
Originally Posted by Spiral
Also had a bit of excitement a few weeks ago. She's convinced that I'm seeing someone and is constantly looking for evidence of it. She even told me that it was wrong for me to see someone else when we're still married, that she could move back at any point, and that she would push for D if I was seeing someone else. Considering her relationship with OM and the fact that we were days out from D at that point, the reaction seemed very odd to me. But I said nothing.

It is all so very typical. By that I mean her checking up on you and threatening you with possible divorce if you start seeing someone else. That is just her making sure you stay put and remain her plan B. You need to remove that reassurance from her. I hope you are not reassuring her in any way, shape or form. If you are, you need to stop doing that.

Seriously? SHE told YOU it was wrong for to see someone else while married...when she herself is in another relationship?!? The gall. What is wrong with people?

I went back and read your entire thread and two things stood out to me:

1) You seemed much stronger from the start than most newbies on here (myself included), so good for you. Even if your marriage isn't saved you can know you stood strong for yourself and your kids.
2) In reference to the "don't see anyone you're still married" topic above, even in your first post back 6 months ago you wrote "She even went so far as to tell me that it was fair to just discard her like that after 20 years." Again, she sounds delusional. She is having an affair, moving out, and filing for divorce...yet saying you're not being fair for discarding her?!? Unreal.


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Spiral is a strong man and his W has made a big mistake.


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Nine months have gone by. No marriage saving or divorce progress to report. However, she's still tremendously interested in keep tabs on my social life and even searched my emails for information on who I might be seeing. But enough about her. I don't have any marriage saving advice to impart and we've all read the same posts. So, what's the point in adding anything more about her?

GAL and detachment, on the other hand, are going splendidly. I dare say that I'm even having a bit of fun these days. I made a solid effort at preparing a lovely Thanksgiving meal, but fell far short in the execution. Cooking is more difficult that it seems. Kids didn't seem to mind and we had fun anyway. Then, I had three days all to myself. I was anticipating suffering through a bout of melancholy and spinning. But it never materialized and all in all it was an enjoyable break. In the pre-BD days, I certainly had better Thanksgivings, but I also had worse. I'm doing alright just like the vets said that I would be.

My marriage might end in 2021. It might not. But I don't invest my time in trying to control the outcome anymore, nor do I wonder what she and OM are doing (even on Thanksgiving weekend when the kids are with them). I live my life and I am content without her. I have never once checked her social media or even driven by her new home. Whenever anyone else brings her up, I change the topic or end the conversation.

For those wondering how to speed their detachment along, you simply need to GAL. You GAL when you want to. You GAL when you don't want to. You GAL when you have time. You GAL when you don't have time. You imagine the man or woman you want to be, you figure out how to make progress toward who you want to be, and then you keep taking steps forward no matter what. Along the way, you'll heal from the wounds and you'll move on.

Detachment is easier if you are the one who stays in the MBR and in the marital home. There's really no sense in your being the one to move if your name is on the title.

But, if you must know, your spouse will notice and react to your detachment. And they will try to get you to re-attach.

-Spiral

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It [censored] that you are in limbo. I hope 2021 brings you come resolution.


Save yourself. Nobody is coming!
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Spiral you are a rock. You have got DB covered.

Many of the people on this board should read your thread, its how it should be done.

Spiral apologies for hijacking - Joe2017 would love to read an update from you?

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And here I am just a few weeks away from the 1 year anniversary of BD. Not much to report. Absolutely no progress on the D, which seems odd since she's still engaged to and living with OM. She is still incredibly interested in my non-existent dating life and is still trying to get me to re-attach. Of course, I do play up the man of mystery by never letting anyone know what my plans are.

Limbo doesn't [censored]. Life is actually pretty good. In fact, things are so good, I think I may need to be the one to push the D forward. I've started to worry that she might come back and that my life would take a turn for the worse. GAL is going great. I love it and I don't want to lose it. I love my time with the kids. And I am getting a lot better at being alone. This is the sort of thing that you can heal from and move beyond. It just takes a year or two and a sincere committment to detachment.

Never did ask her why we switched over to the slow road to the big D. I can't help but wonder why, but it probably doesn't have anything to do with me. There's still a lot of resentment and blame in her heart. However, I prefer to live vicariously through everyone else's R talks and avoid my own. Not really a lot of sense in having an R talk, when the R is already dead.

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Tru dat. No point in R talk whatsoever... None!

No progress on D-front is really not unusual. It's more the norm. She's sitting on the fence, keeping you on the back burner just in case things do not pan out with the OM. You should not allow her to use you as a plan B. I am not saying you shoud file.

Well done for your GAL. It only gets better from here onwards.

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Spiral, did anyone such your kids or friends figure out that Xw was with Om before the actual split?


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NickWing,

I don't really know if anyone figured it out before the actual split. I actually cut off contact with almost all of her family, with all of her friends, and with several mutual friends immediately after the split. And I dropped off their social media too. I was pretty committed to the walk away and never look back approach. That seemed like a necessary part of it and of my own healing. But I don't miss many of those folks. A few of them reached out to maintain the friendship afterward, but most didn't and that's fine. The only person I ever missed was her and that fades over time.

I don't think the kids knew. I think she's committed to the storyline of meeting OM after the split and quickly falling in love with her soulmate. I've let her repeat that narrative without challenge. It seems it is in the kids' best interests to have that fairy tale out there, although I'm not sure if people really believe it given how quickly things happened. I'm not interested in learning the details of how it happened or how she kept it a secret. The R is completely dead and it won't help me. But even if I were interested in finding out, the only people I am still connected to that are part of her new life are my children and I am not going to discuss it with them. So, I'll live the rest of my life in the dark about that. I've also never spoken an ill word about her to anyone and I am proud of that.

The one upside of the ultimatum is that it is a pretty quick and pretty final split. It gives you plenty of time to work on you and focus on healing you. So, I'm a big proponent of it for that reason. After all, I'm a year out and I am totally fine with getting a D when it happens. Of course, I was completely misguided about my prospects of success. On the marriage saving front, it might have been one of the worst ways to approach things. Still, looking back at BD and going forward, I don't have any regrets and I am glad to have heeded the vets' advice. Sometimes, the only thing left to do in your marriage is to end it with dignity and poise. Even my STBXW has said that I have done that and that she's been very impressed with how I've changed and grown. Other people have said that too.

As far as an update goes, there's nothing to report. We live separate lives and are building our futures without any plans for the other. But there's been no progress towards actually getting the D and all that stands in the way is her signature. Still, she lingers for whatever reason.

Spiral

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Originally Posted by Spiral
Of course, I was completely misguided about my prospects of success.

My guess is you were misguided on how long it would take for you to have success.
Originally Posted by Spiral
On the marriage saving front, it might have been one of the worst ways to approach things.

What do you think would have changed if you handled it differently?


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Originally Posted by Spiral
NickWing,

I don't really know if anyone figured it out before the actual split. I actually cut off contact with almost all of her family, with all of her friends, and with several mutual friends immediately after the split. And I dropped off their social media too. I was pretty committed to the walk away and never look back approach. That seemed like a necessary part of it and of my own healing. But I don't miss many of those folks. A few of them reached out to maintain the friendship afterward, but most didn't and that's fine. The only person I ever missed was her and that fades over time.

I don't think the kids knew. I think she's committed to the storyline of meeting OM after the split and quickly falling in love with her soulmate. I've let her repeat that narrative without challenge. It seems it is in the kids' best interests to have that fairy tale out there, although I'm not sure if people really believe it given how quickly things happened. I'm not interested in learning the details of how it happened or how she kept it a secret. The R is completely dead and it won't help me. But even if I were interested in finding out, the only people I am still connected to that are part of her new life are my children and I am not going to discuss it with them. So, I'll live the rest of my life in the dark about that. I've also never spoken an ill word about her to anyone and I am proud of that.

The one upside of the ultimatum is that it is a pretty quick and pretty final split. It gives you plenty of time to work on you and focus on healing you. So, I'm a big proponent of it for that reason. After all, I'm a year out and I am totally fine with getting a D when it happens. Of course, I was completely misguided about my prospects of success. On the marriage saving front, it might have been one of the worst ways to approach things. Still, looking back at BD and going forward, I don't have any regrets and I am glad to have heeded the vets' advice. Sometimes, the only thing left to do in your marriage is to end it with dignity and poise. Even my STBXW has said that I have done that and that she's been very impressed with how I've changed and grown. Other people have said that too.

As far as an update goes, there's nothing to report. We live separate lives and are building our futures without any plans for the other. But there's been no progress towards actually getting the D and all that stands in the way is her signature. Still, she lingers for whatever reason.

Spiral


I could have written this. My path was hard at first, but it allowed me to detach faster than most. The big difference is our situations was that I was divorced about 3 months after BD. In hindsight I think my XW was in a hurry because she had something else lined up and wanted to maintain the facade of not cheating on me. It is what it is. My daughters will certainly never hear my version of what I think happened. It would do them no good.

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Spiral, would you take a look at Pack-19 thread? He struggles with feeling like a failure if he doesn't bust a divorce.


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I don't think there is anything that I could have done differently to produce another result. If I'd done things differently, maybe the timing or the details would have changed a bit, but not the final result. The final moment to turn things around disappeared long before I understood what was happening and, almost certainly, even before my STBXW met OM. In fifteen months, my STBXW has never looked back. And while my path to a D has been slow moving, that's more about her desire to maintain control over me than anything else. Her desire to control my life is not a reflection of her desire to reconcile. As far as I know, her new life with OM is going great and she's still dreaming of her happily ever after. But I wouldn't know. I don't discuss her life with anyone. However, absence has not made her heart grow fonder. If anything, she's angrier with me now than she was at the start.

For me, the process and the board's advice has been amazing. Of course, I'm not thrilled with the circumstances, but I tried to embrace the books and the process from the beginning. The GAL and the 180s have been wonderful. I'm enjoying my life a lot more and am very pleased with the personal growth that I've found. I'm eager to keep things up and to see where I'm going to be in another year's time. I'm also healthier and stronger than I've been in a long time. Detachment has allowed me to understand the destructive patterns that our relationship had fallen into and to understand how I need to do things differently if I ever find myself in another relationship. And everything comes from just taking everyone's advice and having faith in that advice. Personally, I didn't have any clue how to handle my sitch, so I just went along with the books and the board. That's made all the difference and I wouldn't be where I am withouut all of you.

Her obsession with who I am dating and trying to sabotage that continues unabated. My children constantly pop by unannounced and a day rarely goes by they don't come racing into the house for something they "forgot." I do love the unexpected visits and since I'm not actually dating, I haven't complained about it.

Otherwise, there's not much to report.

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Originally Posted by Spiral
I don't think there is anything that I could have done differently to produce another result. If I'd done things differently, maybe the timing or the details would have changed a bit, but not the final result.

You are correct she had probably been on the hunt for your replacement for years.
Originally Posted by Spiral
The final moment to turn things around disappeared long before I understood what was happening and, almost certainly, even before my STBXW met OM.

Most LBS are 2-3 years behind.
Originally Posted by Spiral
In fifteen months, my STBXW has never looked back.

Of course not she is still enjoying her new shiny toy.
Originally Posted by Spiral
And while my path to a D has been slow moving, that's more about her desire to maintain control over me than anything else.

Sounds like it. How do you change it?
Originally Posted by Spiral
Her desire to control my life is not a reflection of her desire to reconcile.

Right. You are probably around plan L or M right now.
Originally Posted by Spiral
As far as I know, her new life with OM is going great and she's still dreaming of her happily ever after.

The honeymoon period is about to end.
Originally Posted by Spiral
However, absence has not made her heart grow fonder.

It's only been 15 months. The ride is just beginning. She won't be done with you for a long time, nor will you be done with her. Since you have a daughter together you will be intermeshed for 18+ years.
Originally Posted by Spiral
If anything, she's angrier with me now than she was at the start.

Eventually she will burn through that big pile of resentment. Eventually she will process her anger at you and it will dissipate. When eventually she's had enough time and space that she can SEE YOU again, she'll be surprised by what she sees, and she'll question for the first time the assumptions she has held about you. THAT is the beginning of your opportunity to turn things around, but you CANNOT control how long it will take her to process her anger and resentment, and you CANNOT accelerate it. UNTIL she goes through both of those processes, she will not see you as anything other than she believes you to be based on her prior training.
Originally Posted by Spiral
Detachment has allowed me to understand the destructive patterns that our relationship had fallen into and to understand how I need to do things differently if I ever find myself in another relationship.

This is what DB is truly about. Not saving your marriage. 95% aren't worth saving. Yours probably wasn't either you just haven't realized it.
Originally Posted by Spiral
And everything comes from just taking everyone's advice and having faith in that advice.

That's good most don't implement the advice well and make matters worse.
Originally Posted by Spiral
Her obsession with who I am dating and trying to sabotage that continues unabated. My children constantly pop by unannounced and a day rarely goes by they don't come racing into the house for something they "forgot." I do love the unexpected visits and since I'm not actually dating, I haven't complained about it.

Sounds like you need to shore up some boundaries.


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Hi Spiral,

I just read all your posts in this thread. You are now my poster child on how to DB.

This was a perfect response when you found out about the affair:
Originally Posted by Spiral
I simply told her that she needed to pick one of us and that the one she didn't pick would no longer be a part of her life. And I left it at that.



Originally Posted by Spiral
As far as I know, her new life with OM is going great and she's still dreaming of her happily ever after. But I wouldn't know. I don't discuss her life with anyone.
Glad that you don't know. No reason for you to. Just know your first assumption is most likely wrong. She and OM brought bad relationship skills into their "relationship". Hopefully you have been doing your homework over the past 15 months and have a new set of skills.

The one question I have is did you find a safe way to release your emotions?

Anyway, anyone reading this post that is looking for a good example on how to DB should read this thread and follow his lead on how to behave during this most difficult of situations.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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I agree with R2C. Really good to see someone that instinctually DB'd. The instinct to pressure, pursue, beg, cry, and give all of the power to walkaway is intense. Spiral right from the get-go was on point. Spiral, I think you made a couple of mistakes, like breaking no contact, etc, but in general you were a DBing ninja. I struggled a lot in my sitch even though I knew about DBing! Took me 2 days to remember DBing. And while our outcomes were different, yours is as much a success story as anyone's! Well done.

Keep us updated on how things proceed.


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R2C, LH19, SteveLW,

I work out a lot. It is a key component of my GAL and it always makes me feel a lot better. Some days, I work out twice and I certainly did that a lot at the beginning. And when I'm feeling down, I go out and talk to other people. I make friends rather easily and there are a lot of lonely folks out there who just want to talk to someone. I'm not shy. I also stay very busy and very productive.

I try to play to my strengths so that I can make progress and never sit on the couch thinking when I feel bad. But perhaps the biggest piece of it was having confidence that I would have the outcome that I wanted if I just stayed focused, had patience, and executed the plan. My confidence wasn't misplaced, I did get the outcome that I wanted. I just didn't save my marriage. She never looked back or reconsidered.

It's probably much better this way though. I'm happy with my new life and looking forward to what the future brings. It was too bad that things happened the way they did, but everything seems to have worked out for everyone. I've made a lot of progress rebuilding my life, I am living the way I want to live, and I am improving myself. My ex and OM seem to be doing fine and they appear to take good care of the children when they are over there. My ex and I don't fight over child custody or parenting. Things are peaceful. And sometimes that is a great outcome.

My daughters are still obsessed with who I have dinner and coffee with. And it's impossible to tell whether that's their mother driving the issue or whether it's my daughters' concern. But it doesn't really matter. Since I'm what they call "emotionally unavailable," I figure that it's for the best that I stay single and I do. Of course, some women find men who are friendly, who listen, and who are emotionally unavailable very attractive. So, I don't have to have dinner or coffee alone unless I want to and most of the time I do.

As for my mistakes, before BD, my ex was no longer my top priority. I put work and myself ahead of her and it was that way for quite a while. She was, and appears to still be, OM's top priority. That's often what lies at the heart of a lot of these sitchs and it is understandable why that was so irresistible to her. Not that her leaving that way was right. There were better ways to have done it.

I also spent a tremendous amount of time in IC going over my weaknesses and making changes. But when your spouse is 100% gone and living with someone else, that really doesn't make much difference and I can understand and accept that my personal growth didn't change things for her.

Overall, things are pretty good.
-Spiral

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Hey Spiral,

I just read through your entire thread and man I wished I had instinctually taken up DBing the way you did. So for that, kudos to you. You've gotten some fantastic feedback from many respectable vets here and looks like you have a great mindset within this storm.

Originally Posted by Spiral
I work out a lot. It is a key component of my GAL and it always makes me feel a lot better. Some days, I work out twice and I certainly did that a lot at the beginning. And when I'm feeling down, I go out and talk to other people. I make friends rather easily and there are a lot of lonely folks out there who just want to talk to someone. I'm not shy. I also stay very busy and very productive.

the importance of GAL cannot be underestimated. It is what got me out of my funk and put me on a path of self-discovery and recovery. the pandemic kinda took that away for a long time but I am back in the gym now and it has been such a godsend. the gym is ME time and I take full advantage of that to get my physical and mental health in gear.

Originally Posted by Spiral
I try to play to my strengths so that I can make progress and never sit on the couch thinking when I feel bad. But perhaps the biggest piece of it was having confidence that I would have the outcome that I wanted if I just stayed focused, had patience, and executed the plan. My confidence wasn't misplaced, I did get the outcome that I wanted. I just didn't save my marriage. She never looked back or reconsidered.

the main outcome of DBing is to first save yourself. I know nobody wants to hear this but most marriages aren't worth saving. And she hasn't looked back YET or reconsidered. So often I have seen here that by the time the WAS does look back and wants to piece, the LBS has already fortified themselves and moved on, and is not interested in the work that would need to happen to restore the marriage. Your timeline is still pretty fresh and new; just give it time. If she ever considers coming back, you might be in a place where you don't want that.

Originally Posted by Spiral
As for my mistakes, before BD, my ex was no longer my top priority. I put work and myself ahead of her and it was that way for quite a while. She was, and appears to still be, OM's top priority. That's often what lies at the heart of a lot of these sitchs and it is understandable why that was so irresistible to her. Not that her leaving that way was right. There were better ways to have done it.

I also spent a tremendous amount of time in IC going over my weaknesses and making changes. But when your spouse is 100% gone and living with someone else, that really doesn't make much difference and I can understand and accept that my personal growth didn't change things for her.

Yes, we all (LBS) made mistakes in our marriages and it's good that you're recognizing where you fell short. But, the way she decided to act on that is totally on her. There are plenty of couples where they go to counseling or try many other approaches before deciding to split. Don't beat yourself up on how she decided to leave.

I disagree with you that the time spent in IC makes no difference. You've made a helluva lotta progress in self-awareness and understanding through IC, and that in itself is worthy of note. Your personal growth is for you and the impact of it will radiate through your life and your kids lives. I also spent time in IC bettering myself and doing exactly what you did, and it didn't make a lick of difference to exW, but it wasn't for her, it was for me. I am so much better for having done it.

Just continue on your path and keep posting updates. I think it is quite important that other LBS, either recent or a few years into it like me, see how you're handling it and they can get some perspective and insight into their own lives.

I'm sorry what you and your kids had to go through. I know how tough this is. Keep up with the GAL and focus on achieving things in your life that matter to you and be a present and loving dad. Everything else will fall into place.

And yeh, have a good cry at some point smile listening to sad music does the trick for me.


No one is coming to save you!

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