Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
C
CanBird Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
Thank you Ownit. I sent him a msg. and did feel some relief in doing so.

I followed your suggestion of auto transfer. (Instead of checks as he suggested).

Before doing so I found myself coming up with excuses for his late payment (ie: he works very remotely at sea & is the boss of a small vessel, finishing up the season which is busy & stressful). Regardless of why, he needs to obey the agreement that was put forward by a court of law.

*When contacting him I make sure to include details like dates & $$ amounts, what pg of our agreement support payments are on. Etc etc. I look at each interaction like business, and if we need to go back and review anything there will be no confusion & clear evidence as to what each message meant.*

Well see how he replies.


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
Living MY Happiest Life Ever
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
C
CanBird Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
He replied.

I'm not going to read anything until Wednesday afternoon when I'm done work and off for a few days.

There's 5 msg. I was outside with a friend and didnt have my phone when they came through. A few hours later I saw I had msgs. I dont need to know what his reply is asap. It can wait. And if he really needs to contact me he try calling.

I dont need added stress. My heart races constantly. I've been at my new job a month and I love it. I have moments, can improve, want to, trying to. Can't let stress get to me. Any stress.


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
Living MY Happiest Life Ever
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,644
Likes: 472
D
DnJ Online
Member
Online
Member
D
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,644
Likes: 472
Good Morning Can

I’m sorry for the strain and stress you are under. However, putting off news, bad news or good news, until Wednesday is just delaying you knowing. I think that strategy may create more stress.

Read the messages and wait until Wednesday to respond. It’s the delay in your response that is the key, IMHO. It’s gives you 24-48 hours to compose yourself, to consider what was stated, and to response to whatever H has said; otherwise you are responding on Friday.

You don’t need to rush to read his messages, and I like the idea of doing that when you have some free time and can be more at peace. I would suggest you could read any messages any day after work. Then respond 48 hours later.

Perhaps you are delaying because you expect him to lash out or otherwise blame and give bad news. Expectations, they do affect us. Set them to zero, and deal with what actually happens. You are currently dealing with something that you expect to happen. That is creating a fearful and stressful outlook for yourself.

Originally Posted by CanBird
And if he really needs to contact me he try calling.

I think him calling would not alleviate the stress it would add to it.

Detach. Be indifferent. You can read his messages without being dragged around emotionally. You can consider your response and further actions over the next couple of days. And then you can respond, if needed.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
Can, I experienced exactly this kind of anxiety that you are experiencing, and still do. If I see an e-mail from H's lawyer or the court, my entire body goes into fight/flight and I can't think or function.

Slowly I am learning that my response is a trauma response, it has nothing to do with the message I am getting. You have to work on your trauma and your anxiety response, and then you will not feel as bad each time.

The thing about divorce is that no one can make you do anything until a trial. Everything that happens before trial is just an effort to come to an agreement before trial. But nothing you do or say is binding unless you sign something. You an annoy everyone by saying no to everything up until the day of trial. You can even say no after, and they would have to bring you back to court. I am not saying you SHOULD say no to everything, but remembering that I can helped me with my anxiety and my ability to think clearly about my options and parameters.

Another thing that I realized is that I did H no favors by allowing him to have no responsibilities all this time. I thought by cutting him loose and being totally independent, I could have peace. But all that happened is that he and his lawyer took it and ran with it -- trying to get out of any responsibilities for debt and child support and using my ability to feed our kids without him as the justification for trying to get ALIMONY! My wages are extremely low and so are H's, so it's insane to think I would have to support him in any way. And I realized that if I had gone to the state with a petition for child support even before H filed for divorce, it would have been a reality check for him and might have limited some of his absurd legal shenanigans. And even if it had no effect on limiting him, at least it would have gotten me a little extra money every month. The child support services people don't give a hoot about MLC or who is right or wrong. They collect and they do it strictly. If I were you, if he doesn't send the money, I would go through the state and just file a petition and let them handle it. You set up an account and they collect it from him and it goes into the account so you don't have to have any contact.

Does your state have a family justice center? They offer free therapy, etc., to women who have survived abuse. Abuse includes verbal and emotional and financial abuse. They helped me access services and I even got a couple bags of groceries there when I really needed it.

Remember, your anxiety is real. But what is causing it is trauma, not H's behavior or letters. He has already done his worst and you survived it. You are doing just fine, whether he gives you money or not. You will be okay. But you can try to get the money, for your kids. Make the effort but surrender the outcome. It won't kill you either way. You are okay, you are okay, you are okay.

(((((Canbird)))))


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
C
CanBird Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
Originally Posted by DnJ
Good Morning Can

I’m sorry for the strain and stress you are under. However, putting off news, bad news or good news, until Wednesday is just delaying you knowing. I think that strategy may create more stress.

Read the messages and wait until Wednesday to respond. It’s the delay in your response that is the key, IMHO. It’s gives you 24-48 hours to compose yourself, to consider what was stated, and to response to whatever H has said; otherwise you are responding on Friday.

You don’t need to rush to read his messages, and I like the idea of doing that when you have some free time and can be more at peace. I would suggest you could read any messages any day after work. Then respond 48 hours later.

Perhaps you are delaying because you expect him to lash out or otherwise blame and give bad news. Expectations, they do affect us. Set them to zero, and deal with what actually happens. You are currently dealing with something that you expect to happen. That is creating a fearful and stressful outlook for yourself.

Originally Posted by CanBird
And if he really needs to contact me he try calling.

I think him calling would not alleviate the stress it would add to it.

Detach. Be indifferent. You can read his messages without being dragged around emotionally. You can consider your response and further actions over the next couple of days. And then you can respond, if needed.

D



Hi DnJ. He txt 2 more times, 7 in total) he says he's at work (could be) and barely any reception.. could be true... I glaced briefly, didnt read full messages. I saw the words "maybe ask your dad to buy the housre or sell the house", "when are you getting your own phone plan? Auto insurance.." "you have income from the rental"... I did not read anything about child support. Again, I haven't read the full content.

I did not sleep. Maybe 3-4 hrs? But I functioned great at work smile

Whatever happens happens.


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
Living MY Happiest Life Ever
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,644
Likes: 472
D
DnJ Online
Member
Online
Member
D
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,644
Likes: 472
Good Morning Can

I am glad to hear work is going well and you are doing great while working. Throwing ourselves back into a job is a good distraction. The shift of our focus provides excellent time for our inner mind to mull things over and find peace and acceptance. It’s a slow go, but of course like a fine wine it take time and one cannot rush it.

The brief snippets of message you saw is good. It’s gives that inner mind extra time before you actual sit down to read and respond. I want you to realize something - XH has no right to those answers.

Getting your own phone plan, auto insurance, etc... None of his business anymore. Now, if the divorce agreement states timelines and such for completing certain things, fine, assure him it will be done by the deadline. Other than that, he doesn’t control you. You control you.

H may try to manipulate you into selling the house or whatever; don’t worry about his timeline. Live your full life and fit in things as you see fit.

Child support. Maybe he has mentioned it and the preview didn’t show it. You will find out when you read the message in their entirety. If he is playing games with child support, that is something you will need to address. There are options available for enforcement if things come to that. You don’t need to play along with whatever XH might or might not be trying - nefarious or not. It’s pretty simple and straight forward to have an automatic monthly transfer from his account to your’s.

I’m sorry sleep is currently difficult. Besides the lack of sleep not allowing us to function at our best, how we sleep is a good indicator of how we are doing internally / subconsciously. 3-4 hours isn’t great; I’ve been there. This is just a rough patch on the path. (((Can)))

Let us know what XH’s seven message are about. I’m interested in your well-being and all for you getting a full night sleep again.

Take care.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
C
CanBird Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
I finally read XH's 7 msgs regarding child support.

My msg to him was a follow up, suggesting that auto payment be set up.

His reply: "That would be fine. Seems like you could use the rental income for that."
(We have a shared rental, that I manage. In our agreement, a portion of the income (25%) goes towards paying the loan we have on it. It was not stated, what is done with the other 75%. Verbal doesn't count for anything.)

"Otherwise, start putting that towards the loan 100%".
"I'm still going to have to pay the mortgage and the taxes."
"And insurance for the house and the cars".
"Are you going to get your own phone plan?"

"You should buy the house. Ask your dad to help you. Don't know how you expect me to survive when I'm paying everything."

"Or the house gets sold".

*He also mentioned he barely had any (cell phone) service do to the weather at the moment (" assuming he's still at work, remote in the middle of the sea...assuming"*


I don't know what to say in reply to this. He's says that would be fine... the auto pay, but then mentions using rental income to cover the child support. That's not what was in our agreement. However, that rental income IS income. It's been on our tax returns for over 8 years as other income. He COULD come back and say, "I want my half of the rental income".

As of right now, I have control over that rental income, as I am the only acting landlord. Legally, only 25% has to go towards the loan. The other 75%, we verbally agreed, goes towards bills for the rental & and any repairs. And whatever the main house needs.{payment of bills, repairs etc..I take care of the main house we reside in too.

(our mistake/my mistake not having it in writing.... boy oh boy I'm learning....COULD OF SHOULD OF...)

Mortgage payments, due to covid, are in forbearance. Partial payments, from "his account", have been sent. Yes, he has paid for other insurances.

Other points he brought up, me getting my own phone plan, it's in the works. No big deal there, I understand he just want to cut all ties, even though It doesn't cost him anything to have me on his plan. I look at these kind of things as business. And I also look at things through his point of view too. He supported me 100% as a homemaker & stay-at-home mom for years, and that arrangement has changed.

Thoughts? Not replying without hearing from the peanut gallery. I will be consulting with my father on this too.


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
Living MY Happiest Life Ever
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,644
Likes: 472
D
DnJ Online
Member
Online
Member
D
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,644
Likes: 472
Hello Can

Yes, get the child support setup and automatic ASAP.

Getting your own phone plan is as you said, no big deal. And that is in the works.

Your divorce is final and now a month old. As to XH’s suggestions - follow the agreement. Anything verbal is as good as the paper it is written on. Do not make side deals.

I am confused with the allocation of assets. Do you both still own the house? Is the a provision for you to buy him out? Or him you? Or is it supposed to be sold?

The rental income was joint. However post divorce I would suspect your income streams would no longer be intertwined. With that in mind the agreed to 25% of the rental income used for upkeep and such, is confusing. Who owns the rental? Who’s income is it?

I see you realize the need for things to be in writing. And I realize you do not have a lawyer. Is this divorce agreement signed by a judge and final? It sounds a bit vague to me.

That being said. Do what the agreement states. Nothing more. You do not need or want to set a precedent.

If the other 75% is joint income, then let him claim his share and his share of the expenses. Do not use the rental income as child support directly. Have a paper trail showing his portion of the rental being paid to him and his payment of child support being paid from him. You don’t need anything that can come back on you later.

Did the contents of the house get split up? The cars? It is interesting XH pushing for you to buy the house. Is that something you are interested in? Do you want to keep the rental? Or could you keep the house and he gets the rental?

It appears that custody is to you. Do you have full custody? Or primary custody? Or something else?

It looks like items are still being negotiated. Although I may have read things incorrectly and these are already sorted out.

Originally Posted by CanBird
And I also look at things through his point of view too. He supported me 100% as a homemaker & stay-at-home mom for years, and that arrangement has changed.

You also supported him 100% by remaining at home which allowed him to be gainfully employed and advance his career. Do not sell your half of the contributions to your marriage for less than they are. You are entitled to support and your children are entitled to support.

All those years you remained at home, you could have been working and accruing a retirement nest egg and would now otherwise have a career with an income. However, you stayed at home and H financially support you, the kids, and the household. XH is required to continue supporting (for some amount of time, which depends upon the local laws).

Wait a good 48 hours before responding to XH. And talk things over with your Dad. And maybe a lawyer, just to have a professional opinion of the agreement.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 12
I second DnJ's questions. What judge signed off on this? It sounds very messy and not at all satisfactory as a final divorce decree. The whole point of the divorce is to settle all these questions.

I also second what DnJ said about following the agreement but with an addendum -- GET YOUR FINANCES SEPARATED FROM THIS MAN ASAP. Why would you want to talk to him about money or share anything with him? Fly, Canbird, Fly!!!!!

(And remember, I say that as someone who does not believe in divorce and encourages standing staunchly! But this is the finances, you gotta get clear of that so you can build a good life no matter what happens.)

Without knowing any of the details -- it sounds like you most definitely would qualify for alimony on top of child support.

I would suggesting taking the papers to three lawyers, as if you are vetting them to see if you would hire them. It's a consultation to get their take and how they would approach this.

Alternatively, do a web search for women's justice centers near you. You need expert advice.

I am quite sharp on business matters and somewhat sharp on division of property so if you want to give more details, I could try to give you better advice.

My advice without knowing anything is that you immediately form an LLC that will be your rent collection entity. Do it as a single member LLC with you as the only member. All rents go into that account and all building maintenance expenses are paid from it. Build a history for that LLC. Do it fast, now, Dec 1 start date, so you can move all your books from 2020 into your books for this LLC.

I am still embroiled in divorce and joint ownership. So what I do with my LLC is that the LLC pays 75% of all rents to me and H. It goes into my joint account with H (he never accesses this and has no ability to understand anything about money except his delusion that I am stealing it). 25% stays in the company account to pay repairs and other expenses plus sales tax, etc. The 75% going into joint account all goes to mortgage. Right now it's not covering even a big fraction of mortgage but I am in forbearance too. But I am paying the interest at minimum so my debt numbers don't go up on my credit score; I want to be able to buy him out as soon as I can refinance.

Then you will have a history for your LLC and you can apply to buy him out by having your LLC buy the property. The total the LLC will have to pay is just whatever you owe him. A good deal!

Your rental income -- it's half yours and half his, but it's not the entire rents, some of that as I said above is going through your company along with expenses. When you do your taxes, you claim half the income that does hit your account and he must claim the other half. Likewise you each can claim half the mortgage interest. And as soon as possible, you buy him out and this is all yours to claim, via your business. Remember, you are building equity in a joint property. You have to get credit for that elsewhere if he is not contributing an equal amount to equity.

Child support is based on his income and should be done through the state. No discussion, no negotiation. The percentage the state requires is tied to his income and you don't have to check it, they will do that. You can also petition the family court for child support. This is the one thing the state is good at. Though I am remembering now that maybe you don't live in the US so maybe this isn't the case where you are, I always confuse your story with a few of the other "sophomores" here! : )

You can be creative with solutions to get something equitable and cut all ties and give him some relief. He is pissed about your expenses but he's not totally wrong. It should be quantifiable, how you are getting paid spousal support by what numbers, even if it's via equity in the property as a lump sum. Everything should be quantifiable, you take this thing worth this much, he takes this thing worth the same. The only thing is that you get to have a place to live, even if you end up by offering a slow transfer -- e.g., you buy him out fully by 2025, and you have a staggered schedule of how that gets paid out. I can be more specific if you can.

That's Gerda's suggestion page just after a Thanksgiving meal -- e.g., possibly turkey coma influenced.

Last edited by Gerda; 11/27/20 03:25 AM.

I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
C
CanBird Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 715
Hi DnJ, thank you for your reply. I'll do my best to answer clarify things.


Originally Posted by DnJ

Yes, get the child support setup and automatic ASAP.
Your divorce is final and now a month old. As to XH’s suggestions - follow the agreement. Anything verbal is as good as the paper it is written on. Do not make side deals


Totally agree with this. The agreement we signed is what should be follow.

Originally Posted by DnJ

I am confused with the allocation of assets. Do you both still own the house? Is there a provision for you to buy him out? Or him you? Or is it supposed to be sold?


We both still own the house. And the rental is on that property. D4 and I live in the house. The title is in both our names," intend to sell" is what's written in the agreement. There are no provisions regarding buying the other person out.


Originally Posted by DnJ

The rental income was joint. However post divorce I would suspect your income streams would no longer be intertwined. With that in mind the agreed to 25% of the rental income used for upkeep and such, is confusing. Who owns the rental? Who’s income is it?


It is written in the agreement, that we jointly manage the rental income. It goes into a joint account, and 25% of the income goes towards another account to pay off a loan. We both own the rental, as it is on the same property as our main house, that we jointly own. Both our names are on the title. The income has been claimed on our jointly filed income tax. I have always been the landlord, as I am here full-time.

Originally Posted by DnJ

I see you realize the need for things to be in writing. And I realize you do not have a lawyer. Is this divorce agreement signed by a judge and final? It sounds a bit vague to me. That being said. Do what the agreement states. Nothing more. You do not need or want to set a precedent.


Divorce agreement was signed by a judge & final. I agree to stick to the agreement.


Originally Posted by DnJ

If the other 75% is joint income, then let him claim his share and his share of the expenses. Do not use the rental income as child support directly. Have a paper trail showing his portion of the rental being paid to him and his payment of child support being paid from him. You don’t need anything that can come back on you later.



I like your way of thinking D.... and I've been thinking a lot about the rental income, since our divorce became final. It's part doing business right? 25% goes towards the loan, and the rest goes towards paying the rental bills. Whatever is left over we split.

I love a good paper trail. I agree, with his portion of the rental income, I should start making auto-transfers to his personal account and leave a paper trail, I like that. I've been careful with transactions from this account and have detailed notes/ description attached. (ie landscaping, washing machine repair...etc)

Originally Posted by DnJ

Did the contents of the house get split up? The cars? It is interesting XH pushing for you to buy the house. Is that something you are interested in? Do you want to keep the rental? Or could you keep the house and he gets the rental?


He left with 99% of his clothes & camera gear. The garage is FULL of a lot of his "toys". His vehicle is here, which I have permission to drive, per the agreement if I need to. I have ownership of my vehicle. The rest of the contents in the house we split if anything is sold. Neither of us are attached to anything. It's just stuff.

Originally Posted by DnJ

It appears that custody is to you. Do you have full custody? Or primary custody? Or something else?


-Joint legal custody. I have sole physical custody. D4 and I live on an island, so we'll see how and if visitation actually happens. (and then there's covid....)

Originally Posted by DnJ

It looks like items are still being negotiated. Although I may have read things incorrectly and these are already sorted out.


The divorce became final a month ago and he's been away at sea since April. He's almost done work... so I'm trying to get things like child support sorted. He needs to follow the agreement.

Originally Posted by DnJ

Originally Posted by CanBird
And I also look at things through his point of view too. He supported me 100% as a homemaker & stay-at-home mom for years, and that arrangement has changed.

You also supported him 100% by remaining at home which allowed him to be gainfully employed and advance his career. Do not sell your half of the contributions to your marriage for less than they are. You are entitled to support and your child is entitled to support.

All those years you remained at home, you could have been working and accruing a retirement nest egg and would now otherwise have a career with an income. However, you stayed at home and H financially support you, your child, and the household. XH is required to continue supporting (for some amount of time, which depends upon the local laws).


Thank you for reminding me to not sell myself short. My dad said the same thing.

Originally Posted by DnJ

Wait a good 48 hours before responding to XH. And talk things over with your Dad. And maybe a lawyer, just to have a professional opinion of the agreement.


I talked with my dad today. He agreed with sticking to what the agreement says regarding child support. It does not come from the rental income. We also talked about the rental income. XH has not come right out and asked for his half, but I think it's something I should consider moving forward, and to have that paper trail.

I do need to think things over before I reply. One thing is crystal clear to me, and to most of us. He needs to stick to the agreement regarding child support. It's to his benefit as well to stick to the plan, as it shows he is following what the court has ordered.

Feeling okay moving forward. Whatever will be will be. I may have to do all the heavy lifting, but that's how you gain muscle, right? With a little help from my friends.


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
Living MY Happiest Life Ever
Page 5 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard