Set aside emotions. He wants bike. You want bike valuation (attorney recommendation).
E-mail: "Kelly's Blue Book says bike Harley H1 from year 1999 with 30,000miles in GOOD condition is worth $4,500 (private seller value). Photos show scratches and corrosion by the battery so I think it's worse than VERY GOOD, but there are no prior accidents and no dents so it's better than ACCEPTABLE condition."
Text: I e-mailed you my valuation of the bike--$4,500. Do you agree? If you do, say yes, and I can put the bike outside either at 7-10am or 5-9pm tomorrow.
It's a business transaction.
I don't know what's on the bike... ie... upgrades and there are some... I don't even know mileage. It would be better if he would start that and I could look at it to agree.
Same issue with the boat... I don't know what his boat is... UGH.
I only know the purchase price.
I also don't want him baulking again that getting evaluation is stupid atty talk. I'm soooo over that.
It would be better if he would start that and I could look at it to agree.
Perhaps, but he's not your partner anymore, and has little or no motivation to make a fair evaluation.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I don't know what's on the bike... ie... upgrades and there are some... I don't even know mileage.
Sounds like you need an "expert". Do you have any friends into bikes or boats? If no, could you call a local bike or boat repair shop? If no, could you post on a boat or bike enthusiasts' forum? I'm not a used car expert but I was able to follow a guide to checkout the last one I bought to avoid glaring mistakes.
Originally Posted by KitCat
I also don't want him baulking again that getting evaluation is stupid atty talk. I'm soooo over that.
Well, I hope you value your financial security more than trying to control what he says to you. Obviously it's not stupid to hire and listen to an attorney. Providing better legal advice than a layman is their job.
So once he started piling on about 5 texts I just stopped responding.
Finished my day at work, came home and fed all the pets, sat for a few minutes to relax, took a phone call from a friend who told me she arranged a gift card at a yarn store for me for a birthday gift, then exercised the dogs outside.
H: So you not talking now
WTH. So I haven't responded in 3 hrs - I was working, I am busy. The text is because HE WANTS SOMETHING. We all know if I sent 4 texts and he wasn't responding I could not get a response by texting that.
Me: Busy
And, I am. Its a beautiful day. I still need to get my exercise in... been a little lazy the last 2 days.
I really don't want to reply at all... not up for the piss show to begin. I know he wants his stuff but I set 2 rules up. 1) I need agreed evaluations and 2) don't bring anyone to my home. I offered to pick him up from a neutral location and bring him here for his bike.... he actually said "I don't like the way you drive"... I said then you drive...
Journaling - Not only did I have first class tickets to the crazy train, I now realize I'm driving the crazy train.
At the end of the evening I text H that I had a few minutes - what's up. There were texts back and forth. He asked to call and I said not available. Texts continued. He called... I ignored but stated I would call back but if he began to bully me I would not continue.
I have agreed he can come this weekend for his things. He was pushing about getting his bike today (I had offered it Monday but he was busy... he does not care if I'm busy today)
My stipulations were:
I will pick him up and bring him here to get the bike and his mail. He can bring totes so I can pack up his clothes for later pick up.
He went off on how he can't stand to be in a car with me for any length of time. He had a ride and she would drop him off (he didn't mean to drop the word she... he had been trying to say friend). I made it clear that SHE will NOT be coming to my house. He tried to play off it was a female friend and I didn't know her name.... WHATEVER. I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
He went on to state his parents were going to help and they were hurt when he told them I did not want them here. I told H I had nothing against his parents. It did not feel cool to have his parents there helping to move my H out of our marital home.
He got upset said I was being difficult and controlling. I asked that he see my perspective and working in my comfort zone. He then said I could keep the bike and boat and the payments... I told him I would pack up his stuff and let him know when it was ready to be picked up. He replied that he did not trust me. He then said "you know what? keep it all. I will just 100% start over".
He was being irrational so I ended the call.
He called back. Not sure why because it continued. I said I needed to go and I would think things over but I needed some space. H retorted "you have space... I've been giving you space... let me have my stuff and then its all your space" I ended the call again.
Somehow I called back. I was calm. AND, I did a major DB no no. I told him I was dealing with a lot of hurt. That he got his wish and my hurt was probably exceeding his now. He really calmed down and was quiet. I said it wasn't always bad - he replied he hadn't said that it was (yes, he had). I said you shouldn't have left. H replied - did you expect me to go on being unhappy? I said no but you should have let me get my SH*T together. H said - you should have done that 6yr ago. <<<<<<<<<<< THIS, this was my downfall.... I know better than to go there. How did I again dip my toe into that river of stench?
I said I needed to go to bed and he could call in the morning and said good bye.
One thing I will say is that H is completely okay with sitting silent on the phone. He is never the one to end it unless he is super angry which has only been twice. I'm always the one to end the call - he seems in no hurry. Business is taken care of so why keep me on the phone. He isn't asking which dog kept me up all night being sick. I don't get it - probably means nothing. I just make sure I'm the one to wrap things up.
I haven't spoken to my in laws since this went down. I certainly didn't want them to have hurt feelings. So I texted MIL just a simple hope they are safe and healthy given the current situation of the virus.
MIL immediately texted back the longest text I've ever gotten from her. Stated she was glad to hear from me. Had been thinking about me and S18. Asked me to hug S18 for her. Felt bad for all the 2020 seniors that will not have graduation. Asked me to let her know what we will be doing for S18 to celebrate. She was praying for us. Left a short prayer and ended it with love you.
I just responded back that I would hug S18 for her. Will probably have a big party for S18 once things are safe again. I sent love to her and FIL. I did not say one thing about H or our sitch and she was lovely enough to not bring it up.
I woke up this am to more texts from H - he needed my help so he could use the printer and scanner and that I needed to sign affidavit and to call him when I woke up.
UHMMMM --- I'm sure his father has a printer. WTH.
I called. He was clearly asleep though having texted me an hour before. He said he needed to print real estate docs. The affidavit was something the lender needed stating he had access to funds in our joint acct in his town. It was early. That was weird. I just said I would think about it. He got mad and said he knew I wasn't going to help him hung up.
UGH... I texted I hadn't said no but he would need to send me what he expected me to sign.
I called back... he was asleep. I tried talking to him about if he was okay using the printer/scanner in the home with me then he certainly would be okay to be in a car with me. He could come use the printer but I would need to pick him up and then he would leave with the bike and it was an over and done deal.... he literally feel asleep on the phone. Got him to wake up again... repeated it... he mumbled... I just said call me when you wake up.
He was clearly up all night steaming bout our convo... but lets face it... I didn't sleep to well either.
So there you go anonymous internet board - all my poor decisons in the last 12hr laid bare and off my chest.
I still want to please him. I still want him to reconsider his path. <<<< THIS HAS TO STOP.
I'm the one driving the crazy train. I have to figure out how I'm going to drop this rope ---- why do I have to help him at all??? Was he willing to do anything I needed to help me???
Yes, honestly he hasn't opened up about anything AT ALL. The only thing he did mention was that he had to put breaks on his truck for $700... it went by so fast I didn't validate like I wanted too.
You don't validate a brake job. Please just set the validating aside for now and read as much as you can on it until you have a better understanding of it's use and purpose, and when it's appropriate and inappropriate.
Quote
So I'm emotionless, business like... boring. But am I not supposed to be smiling, positive and upbeat so he sees I'm a woman only a fool would leave?
I'm talking about in these toxic texts and phone calls you keep having with him. The two of you just go round and round and round. You're BOTH being jerks to each other. He's being one to you, and you are to him. You BOTH are hurt by these conversations, you BOTH think the other doesn't listen and is the reason for all the problems. You can't change him but you CAN change his PERCEPTION by changing YOUR approach to these convos. So yes, be businesslike to the point of boring. He gets riled up you politely hang up or quit replying. Eventually he learns you won't tolerate the disrespect and he will try to be more cordial.
^^^All of that has NOTHING to do with smiling, being upbeat and being the woman only a fool would leave. You do that ALL THE TIME whether he is there or not. You BECOME the spouse only a fool would leave, you don't just ACT like it. Right?
Quote
Difference in interactions with him very soon? In what way?
As in he will quit disrespecting you in these phone calls and texts.
Quote
Difference in interactions --- like he will warm up to me? He is very checked out.
No that is way, way down the road. It took my ex years to warm up again. Right now the goal is to end the disrespect because it leaves you spinning and anxious.
Difference in interactions --- like he will warm up to me? He is very checked out.
No that is way, way down the road. It took my ex years to warm up again. Right now the goal is to end the disrespect because it leaves you spinning and anxious.
Thank you AS.
I won't say I'm a little disappointed. Years to warm up to me?? We have NO children in common. We have no circle of friends in common. He ditched all mutual friends when he left. We will be living in 2 different towns.
Once our D is final... there will be no more communication. No reason to reach out.
Maybe that's why I'm being a jerk.
I have a year at most to turn this around... he keeps acting like he is so p*ssed he is going right for D immediately.
You are right. Its up to me to get off the the merry go round.
Last edited by job; 04/08/2003:32 PM. Reason: edited language
At the rate that you and your h continue to go round and round, nothing will be resolved concerning the assets. If you don't have a clue as to what something is worth, get on the phone and call someone (expert in the field). Send them whatever info you have on the time along w/a photo. When I was sure about a car, I checked the Blue Book stats and then phoned my insurance agent to see what they said it would be worth if it was totaled. Surely the boat is insured and you can inquire about that as well. You are going to have to take the bull by the horns and start getting some answers on your own. You cannot sit back and wait on him.
You two remind me of two little kids in the sandbox who both want the shovel and neither of you will give an inch. You are the only one that can stop this nonsense. How? By being proactive and start searching for answers on your own.
As for the dog, if you know that the dog is yours, then you need to start purchasing the dog food and either paying cash or paying w/your individual credit card. You two are separated...you both should have separated out your credit cards and bank accounts so that there is absolutely no reason to have questions about what was purchased on a card, etc.
I think you are in denial and burying your head in the sand, hoping that things will turn around like yesterday...they aren't! He's going for a divorce....wake up! You've got to start taking care of your finances and getting the stuff in the house in order and getting an idea of what things are worth. I don't see how you two will come to an agreement on what things are worth if you both continue w/the way the conversations are going.
You, and only you, are in control of yourself and how you react to what he says or does. What is going on now is a business deal that has gone sour and you need to put your "big girl panties" on and treat everything as a business deal. Yes, it's an emotional time for you, but leave the emotions on hold until you are off the phone and then scream, take a walk or beat the stuffings out of a pillow.
As I have suggested several times to you, have someone there w/you when he comes. That way, the conversations will not get out of hand about the funds, etc. Again, all discussions about monetary and assets should be directed to your lawyer, if appropriate. Don't allow yourself to get into tiffs w/him. He wants you spinning out of control so that you will give him whatever he wants. He knows that if he continues to do this, eventually you will give in. Step back, look at texts, but don't respond. So what if you don't respond asap, you are busy, you are not sitting on the phone. You were fired as his wife...let him stew for a good long while.
I'm sorry if I have been blunt about your situation...but the carnival ride needs to stop! Nothing is getting resolved w/this carnival ride.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
At the end of the evening I text H that I had a few minutes - what's up. There were texts back and forth. He asked to call and I said not available. Texts continued. He called... I ignored but stated I would call back but if he began to bully me I would not continue.
I know we sometimes give advice to ---sometimes--- not be readily available, but when it comes to sorting out separation just get it over with. Don't keep putting him off, don't intentionally be unavailable when you actually are, don't refuse to accommodate his schedule just to be hard-headed. Right now your best course of action is to work with him on getting his stuff out and get this over with. He says he wants to call then fine, let him call. Stick to business. If he starts getting p*ssy then tell him (in a boring, business-like voice) that you'll hang up if he keeps disrespecting you. Tell him to keep the conversation to logistics and that's it. Time, place, OK goodbye.
Quote
I have agreed he can come this weekend for his things. He was pushing about getting his bike today (I had offered it Monday but he was busy... he does not care if I'm busy today)
Are you really busy or are you trying to "teach him a lesson" by being stubborn? If you're really busy that's fine, but just tell him you are and propose a different day/ time.
Quote
My stipulations were:
I will pick him up and bring him here to get the bike and his mail. He can bring totes so I can pack up his clothes for later pick up.
Let him worry about that. Don't offer to pick him up or drive him and don't make suggestions on how he pack or anything like that. Just agree to day/ time for him to get his stuff, the rest is up to him.
Quote
He went off on how he can't stand to be in a car with me for any length of time. He had a ride and she would drop him off (he didn't mean to drop the word she... he had been trying to say friend). I made it clear that SHE will NOT be coming to my house. He tried to play off it was a female friend and I didn't know her name.... WHATEVER. I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday.
That's a boundary you can't enforce. Stick to boundaries you can enforce. If you set a boundary like that and he violates it anyway, then it just makes you look weak and powerless to him. Don't show him your jealous side. Your attitude should be the Pope or Miss America can drop him off for all you care, it's all the same to you.
Quote
He went on to state his parents were going to help and they were hurt when he told them I did not want them here. I told H I had nothing against his parents. It did not feel cool to have his parents there helping to move my H out of our marital home.
See this would have been a good time to validate. "I'm sorry they were upset." "So they can come over?" "No, given our current situation I think it would be best that they not. It's just not appropriate right now."
Quote
He got upset said I was being difficult and controlling. I asked that he see my perspective and working in my comfort zone.
Again, good time to validate. "I hear you saying you think I'm being difficult, that must be very frustrating for you." What you did was the opposite of validating, you basically told him you don't care what he thinks/ feels, HE needs to see it from YOUR point of view.
Quote
He then said I could keep the bike and boat and the payments... I told him I would pack up his stuff and let him know when it was ready to be picked up. He replied that he did not trust me. He then said "you know what? keep it all. I will just 100% start over".
Stick to business. Date, time, goodbye. He throws a tantrum then just completely ignore it and tell him to contact you when he wants to work a schedule out.
Quote
He was being irrational so I ended the call.
He called back. Not sure why because it continued.
DON'T ANSWER when he calls back after you just hung up on him for being disrespectful.
Quote
I said I needed to go and I would think things over but I needed some space. H retorted "you have space... I've been giving you space... let me have my stuff and then its all your space" I ended the call again.
Somehow I called back.
Why oh why oh why, LOL!
Quote
AND, I did a major DB no no. I told him I was dealing with a lot of hurt.
Well you are for sure and I do feel bad for you, this stuff is no fun for sure! But don't share that or any other feelings with him. If he shares with you then fine, validate. But don't share anything back. Because he doesn't care one bit, and to him it just sounds like you are selfish and make every convo about you.
Quote
I tried talking to him about if he was okay using the printer/scanner in the home with me then he certainly would be okay to be in a car with me. He could come use the printer but I would need to pick him up and then he would leave with the bike and it was an over and done deal....
Why do you want him in your car so bad? You really need to avoid interactions with him as much as possible right now. It seems like you're trying to find ways to force him to interact with you. IT WILL NOT WORK! It'll just look desperate and needy to him. Tell him to send the stuff, you will print it out, and whenever he comes to pick up his junk he can pick up the papers too.
Last edited by job; 04/08/2004:58 PM. Reason: edited language
He somehow is coming all this way to print something out and scan it --- really? You need to come an hour? There is no where closer?
Regardless I did call him back after he texted today. He has agreed to let me come pick him up.
Clear boundaries were set ---
He uses printer/scanner He gets mail He leaves totes He takes bike and goes on his way
I told him I sent information on affidavit to atty and will let him know
The only time he got a little upset was that I was contacting atty before signing anything. But, I told him I was in contact with her today already.
He did open up and state he has no idea why he has to do this to get the mortgage but I told him its standard when only one person is on the mortgage and your asset is joint. We've had to do this before when we refinanced over the years each time interest rates dropped enough. Its just that I always took care of that and he just didn't pay attention to those things.
Either way I am seeing him in person for the first time in over 3 weeks.
I'm down 18lb (wish it was 28lb but I'll take it) I look better than the last time he saw me. Hair and make up is on point!! Well about as point as you can be in times of no hairstylists. I'm in yoga pants because he can't not look at a great butt in yoga pants. Nice snug T to accentuate the assets. Nice perfume.
Job you said they notice... I'm counting on that.
AS - you said to keep it business like / emotion less.
I can do this. I will not have any expectations. Even if this is overall pleasant and we are nice. It means nothing. He is getting a house. He is moving out. He is moving on. He has a gf.
On an odd note my MIL is texting like crazy today. Right now over trying to find a dog a home.
Job is the voice of reason in all this craziness Great advice!
Originally Posted by KitCat
I won't say I'm a little disappointed. Years to warm up to me?? We have NO children in common. We have no circle of friends in common. He ditched all mutual friends when he left. We will be living in 2 different towns.
Once our D is final... there will be no more communication. No reason to reach out.
Maybe that's why I'm being a jerk.
I have a year at most to turn this around...
We're giving you the tools to start turning things around, but you've got to start using them and stop all the harmful actions. Have you read Michele's chapter on cheeseless tunnels? You are that person with the tent, campfire and lawn chair set up at the entrance to the cheeseless tunnel, LOL! There ain't no cheese down there! You've got to start doing things differently if you want to initiate a change in your situation. I think Steve uses the analogy of turning a cruise ship. The turn doesn't happen instantly, it happens very slowly and takes a long time. But first you've got to give orders to the helm and engine room, and that's what we're trying to get you to do, take those first steps! You can't force him to change his mind on any particular timeline whether it's 6 months or a year or 10 years. He's on his own timeline. He'll get there faster if you quit interfering and just get out of his way. You think you have to SHOW him WHY he needs to recon, but it's the opposite, you need to leave him alone and let him come to that realization on his own. The more you try to show him the less he wants it.
EDIT- just saw your new post, sounds like a good plan. Be cordial, not cold. But do stick to business. No flirting, even though I know it will be tempting. He's not going to be responsive to that (or if he is, it'll be for the wrong reasons).
Great advice!