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Grace, thank you for sharing. It brings hope to see that an H can start to come out. I understand the fear of sharing too much. I think our H's have to understand that we are trying to gain our own footing in all this and that each of our stories helps the other. We aren't using real names here. And I am grateful for that. I don't want it to get out either. I just need a place to vent, ask for support and gain insight. Yours does help me. Thank you for sharing! Sending blessings!


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
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Thank you for the update on Gerda.

Grace, thinking of you and your family during this time of crisis. Praying that your h will wake up and come to his senses and realize what a wonderful wife he has.

Stay safe and well.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Grace, OD said very similar things to S a couple of months ago. Very interesting. Just remember to keep those expectations in check and try not to have a timeline in your mind.

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Hello Grace

It was nice to read your update. Things are taking a positive turn, and you remain grounded and well established. Good for you.

I do understand your feelings, or lack of feelings, to not be posting for a while. We all take a break once in a while.

Originally Posted by Grace21
I am starting to have small feelings of betrayal for posting about H's revelations on this journey. But, I will do so now, but having thoughts about stopping that part of my journaling. Is it fear he will read it? Would he see it as a betrayal? I would not want anything to jeopardize his sharing with me, the leap of faith and trust he is taking knowing his fears as I do. It is all anonymous, but still.....

Feelings and thoughts of betrayal are interesting. Relationships are built upon trust. You are creating a new relationship with H, therefore are concerned about how he sees and trusts you.

Those are two very good questions. Are you afraid of him reading this stuff? Would it be viewed as a betrayal?

Rationally, you know the chances are small that he would find this place or even put it together. Still...

For what it’s worth, I think your fear isn’t him reading about this, it is that you did it and don’t want to cover it up. This place has been a large part of your life, and helped you along your path. (wow, just look at me projecting upon you. Lol.)

Those years, I suspect, you would like to share with him at some future time. The fear you dread, is the possible negative reaction from H. Fear of losing H, and his fledgling trust of you.

Until now, your sharing has been for, and about you. To rationalize: There is nothing you need to be fearful of. Stand proud of the grace and strengthen you’ve displayed while walking in the light. Fear not, you are a wonderful person and I believe you will continue the very fine path you have traversed so far.

Do you think you’d would want to share your experiences with him at some distance future? I suspect so. I know I want to with XW, and I am a lot further away from any possible reconciliation or relationship/friendship than you are with H.

What he is currently sharing with you; his leap of faith and trust. Yes, I think you need to adhere to, and keep the confident he is placing in you.

In that regard, what you shared is perfect. Anonymous, with details, and yet no identifications. That doesn’t break confidence. There is no betrayal. It is still for you, your understanding, and path.

This forum has many wise posters and leverages such groupthink wisdom. If my XW ever comes around, I will post about it, and look to here for sage advice.

I’m a proponent of not making decisions based upon feelings. They have value and input, without doubt. And they will change, without doubt.

Do not reinforce your (fearful?) feelings that you’ll betray H in some way by sharing here. Your feelings are good and valid, and telling you something. See the confidence placed in you. Rationalize your fear and response. Remain anonymous, not absent.

Originally Posted by Grace21
I'm glad he seems to be having an awakening, and committed to healing. But, I feel sad over all the lost years we could have had a wonderful connection.

But, I continue to believe that:

Life is good.

Yes, life is good.

It is time for the lighthouse to shine, and continue being the beacon she is.

Strong. Fearless. Bright.

With a good old helping of compassion mixed in.

DnJ


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I found a package on the counter for me when I got home today. Well, I didn’t notice it until after the kids and I had dinner. I didn’t think that I ordered anything.

It was a gift from H. The note said: “Thought of you. Early Mother’s Day gift!” It is a nursing pendant – heart and angel with a prayer engraved on it. Boy, was I shocked.

I sent H a text message thanking him for it, and he responded that he was thinking of me, but if I didn’t want it I could return it. That made me a bit sad. Those ever present feelings of rejection must be a huge burden to carry. I assured him it was lovely, and told him how the message on it was timely today and told him why. (this was truth).

This on the same day I get a note from my attorney stating his attorney wants a copy of the draft settlement agreement so he can discuss it with my attorney. I had discussed it briefly with H over the phone over the weekend, and had told him I wasn’t so sure what I really wanted in it. That my attorney was strongly advising me to split all assets at this time. I told H I didn’t know I wanted to do that. Before I received the gift, I had emailed H what his attorney asked for, and asked him if he wanted to discuss it before the attorneys did. He hasn’t responded yet.

I’m o.k. as I mull this all over. Praying, and sitting quietly, waiting for God to guide me.
Originally Posted by OwnIt
Just remember to keep those expectations in check and try not to have a timeline in your mind.

Good reminder, OwnIt. I do tend to want to know things NOW, and learning to be patient and let events unfold has been a struggle more often than I care to admit. I believe I am in a good place now where the waiting doesn’t make me so very anxious.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Relationships are built upon trust. You are creating a new relationship with H, therefore are concerned about how he sees and trusts you.

Originally Posted by DnJ
For what it’s worth, I think your fear isn’t him reading about this, it is that you did it and don’t want to cover it up.


Trust. This has been on my mind a lot lately. I think you hit on something here, DnJ. There are so many things that H covered up, I don’t want to do what was so hurtful to me. I’ve been thinking a lot about how I would ever be able to trust H again. I would love to hear how reconciled people work through this. I guess the answer is if we got to a place where we decided to reconcile, I may never fully trust again, but perhaps I could still have a satisfying, joyful life anyway. Maybe not.

In any event, it’s not an answer I need today, or next week, or even next month.

Time (and God) will bring me the answers.

Grace


M: 56
H: 57
S: 22
D: 20

H Moved out: 10/1/18
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Grace,

Your updates are helping so many who are traveling the path of the MLC fall out. What is happening in your life is an eye opener and it goes to show that you have to have faith and also compassion and a lot of patience and understanding if you want to make it to the other side, i.e., whether someone reconciles or they go their separate ways.

The gift your h left you sounds beautiful. Even though his path still has him going in a possible different direction, he is still thinking of you.

Grace, I am praying that your h wakes up and and realizes what a beautiful woman that you are.

Thank you for sharing your journey w/us. It truly means a lot to the rest of our "family" of posters.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Grace, I pray that your H is fully healed and that you continue to fully actualize into who God wants you to be. And once that is all done, I pray, if it is His will and in the best interest of you and your family, that H does come home. I wish that for all of us who are standing.

Not just because I so desperately want that for me and my family, but because there is something sacred about this journey we are on. The one the H is on is their own sacred journey filled with thier own demons to fight and their own angels to listen to. I just hope we are able to one day be on the same side of the fight again and it won't be in opposition or facing away from each other.

It's hard to see that through all this darkness and fear. But then we must walk by faith not by sight.

Blessings during this lenten season.


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

Fate whispers to the warrior, "You can not withstand the storm" And the warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." ~Unknown
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Hello Grace

Wow. A present. The pendant does sound lovely.

I think H’s - but if you don’t want it you could return it - is just him being guilty and probably expecting you to be mad or upset with him. He is just trying to save face, to down play his own emotions before he gets tromped. That is not due to you. His past, his feelings, his path.

You did great. Accepting his gift and exclaiming how lovely it was. I’m sure your sincerity shined through amidst the shock.

As to the draft settlement. If you aren’t sure about doing something, than don’t. You have the gift of time, use it. You aren’t in a position where you need to settle this business side of this for financial protection or security. Take all the time you need and mull it over. And by that, sitting quietly and letting answers present themselves.

Trust. Have you ever rebuild trust with someone? A work colleague, friends, parent, whomever. I suspect you have, like I suspect most of us have.

I too have thought about trust. I also have experienced declines in trust and the effort in re-establishing trust in work relationships. Respect also plays a part in this growth.

Regaining trust is possible. I think the problem is we get mixed up with trust vs innocence.

My XW betrayed me pretty brutally; like happened to lots of folks around here. I do believe I could find trust with her again. It would take work on both sides. Like at work - a consistent demonstrable behaviour leads to (re)building a trusting relationship. (I’m actually currently dealing with a subordinate on this very issue).

XW and I, would we ever have that innocence again? Hmmmm.

I see the naive trust we had pre-BD. It was more child-like; it hadn’t had any crazy huge rifts or problems to survive. If she ever turned back, and wanted to do the work, our new trust would be a different kind. One where it is chosen. Not so much innocent, more mature.

Maybe that trust would be stronger. It would take her to acknowledge her actions, have true remorse, and really change. Similar on my side to regain her trust in me. In that effort, respect would be gained as well.

I think that is the key to a new relationship. Not innocence, that is not a priority. Trust and respect, that is the priority. That’s the priority for our “next” relationship. Everyone gives that advice; don’t settle for someone who doesn’t respect you. We are worthy of trust and respect.

It’s just your “next” relationship might be with H. It’s a new relationship, and it’s going to be based on trust and respect.

A few key points I see. A person has to trust themselves, before they can trust another. Not a problem for you. H has work to do. He has been untrustworthy, needs to change his views, and trust that he has.

Forgiveness. Each has to forgive the other and themselves. We must let go the past and look to the future. Not ignore the past, just not hang on to it. Grudges will just get in the way.

And of course this takes the effort of two people committed to choosing and working towards it.

Rebuilding, forging new, takes time. I believe it is possible.

Just my two cents.

DnJ


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Originally Posted by DnJ
Hello Grace


Trust. Have you ever rebuild trust with someone? A work colleague, friends, parent, whomever. I suspect you have, like I suspect most of us have.

I too have thought about trust. I also have experienced declines in trust and the effort in re-establishing trust in work relationships. Respect also plays a part in this growth.

Regaining trust is possible. I think the problem is we get mixed up with trust vs innocence.

My XW betrayed me pretty brutally; like happened to lots of folks around here. I do believe I could find trust with her again. It would take work on both sides. Like at work - a consistent demonstrable behaviour leads to (re)building a trusting relationship. (I’m actually currently dealing with a subordinate on this very issue).

XW and I, would we ever have that innocence again? Hmmmm.

I see the naive trust we had pre-BD. It was more child-like; it hadn’t had any crazy huge rifts or problems to survive. If she ever turned back, and wanted to do the work, our new trust would be a different kind. One where it is chosen. Not so much innocent, more mature.

Maybe that trust would be stronger. It would take her to acknowledge her actions, have true remorse, and really change. Similar on my side to regain her trust in me. In that effort, respect would be gained as well.

I think that is the key to a new relationship. Not innocence, that is not a priority. Trust and respect, that is the priority. That’s the priority for our “next” relationship. Everyone gives that advice; don’t settle for someone who doesn’t respect you. We are worthy of trust and respect.

It’s just your “next” relationship might be with H. It’s a new relationship, and it’s going to be based on trust and respect.

A few key points I see. A person has to trust themselves, before they can trust another. Not a problem for you. H has work to do. He has been untrustworthy, needs to change his views, and trust that he has.

Forgiveness. Each has to forgive the other and themselves. We must let go the past and look to the future. Not ignore the past, just not hang on to it. Grudges will just get in the way.

And of course this takes the effort of two people committed to choosing and working towards it.

Rebuilding, forging new, takes time. I believe it is possible.

Just my two cents.

DnJ


Grace, As usual, DnJ is right on. Trusting first in ourselves. It seems you've done the work so continue to believe and trust in that work... plus the faith in God, which you have in spades.

I continue to be amazed at the power and strength of those of us who continue to walk this path of the LBS. Even when we make mis-steps, which we are bound to do. Even when we are lost which can be often and even when our MLCer confuses us by doing things we don't expect.

But I think God does that for us too... sends us messages from people in our lives reminding us that sometimes the love we gave isn't misplaced. It may not be what we were expecting or what we can "trust" in right now, but it's there none the less. If we can believe that God uses people to send us miracles, hope, and light... then why can't that come from an MLCer... it's like for a moment, God's light was in them and they do something so out of character, so unexpected that we know it can't have been from their current state of mind. So maybe it is an angel or God reaching through them to us.

I'd like to think that... I'd like to believe that their true God nature can shine through even when it is most dark in them. Even when they are so lost we don't know if they will ever be found...

I'd like to believe.. even if for just a moment that God is truly doing the work we've all be wishing and praying for and you got a glimpse of that from the gift... Sending you light, love and blessings!

Oh and DnJ-- whatever you are doing to impart such wisdom, such hope... please keep doing it. We need it. We all need it. Blessings!


W (me): 50 H: 46
M: 21 T: 25
S:17 D:15
BD 11/2019

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Happy Easter everyone!

Events here continue to unfold. Words have been shared.

H sent me a comprehensive outline of how he sees the marriage settlement agreement, and put a lot of thought into the last real sticking. It was actually well thought out, and reasonable. I had some comments back, which he accepted.

We talked on the phone for almost 30 minutes this week. It was supposed to be about the agreement, but we really didn’t talk much about it. Talked lots about his current sitch. Seems volatile. He still expressed desire for a friend to step forward and “give him some ideas, tell him what to do”. I told him that a few of our old friends are still there, and he had to just reach out and they would offer support, but that I believe he needed to make his own decisions. I said that I think he is waiting for it to get bad with OW that she will decide for him (i.e. throw him out), just like I had to make his decision for him to move out. He recognized that throughout our married life, he let me make most of the decisions, albeit that were mostly good ones. I asked him whether it was time for him to take control of his own life and make the decisions necessary to reach his goals. He listened.

He expressed again what he wanted was to move elsewhere with me and start over. I told him he had the events backwards. That we needed to see if we can ever repair and reconcile first over time, and only then make a decision whether we wanted to move out of the area. He admitted his desire to escape because of embarrassment and fear (of the gossip, I think), but I pointed out that he (we?) could start new even in this area. We both shared that neither wants to file for divorce now, and the agreement will be done to have in place in case we do. No assets will be split at this time, and he will continue to financially provide.

It was a good conversation, but I think fear still has too big of a hold on him to make any real decisions. He says therapy is going very well, and he is making good progress. I hope he doesn’t rush into thinking he is better and quits. Only time will tell.

Yesterday he sent me a message: “Miss you. JS” (JS for just saying, not his initials)

Today I sent him a short message wishing him a Happy Easter, and didn't know if he was celebrating but wanted him to know I was thinking of him. I said "To me, Easter = Hopes". He responded that he thinks about me all the time. And "Well put. Hope. I just need strength".

Something is happening, but I will let time tell me exactly what it is, and where it leads.

I have thought a lot about DnJ’s words:

Originally Posted by DnJ
I too have thought about trust. I also have experienced declines in trust and the effort in re-establishing trust in work relationships. Respect also plays a part in this growth.

Regaining trust is possible. I think the problem is we get mixed up with trust vs innocence.

My XW betrayed me pretty brutally; like happened to lots of folks around here. I do believe I could find trust with her again. It would take work on both sides. Like at work - a consistent demonstrable behaviour leads to (re)building a trusting relationship. (I’m actually currently dealing with a subordinate on this very issue).

XW and I, would we ever have that innocence again? Hmmmm.

I see the naive trust we had pre-BD. It was more child-like; it hadn’t had any crazy huge rifts or problems to survive. If she ever turned back, and wanted to do the work, our new trust would be a different kind. One where it is chosen. Not so much innocent, more mature.

Maybe that trust would be stronger. It would take her to acknowledge her actions, have true remorse, and really change. Similar on my side to regain her trust in me. In that effort, respect would be gained as well.

I think that is the key to a new relationship. Not innocence, that is not a priority. Trust and respect, that is the priority. That’s the priority for our “next” relationship. Everyone gives that advice; don’t settle for someone who doesn’t respect you. We are worthy of trust and respect.

It’s just your “next” relationship might be with H. It’s a new relationship, and it’s going to be based on trust and respect.

A few key points I see. A person has to trust themselves, before they can trust another. Not a problem for you. H has work to do. He has been untrustworthy, needs to change his views, and trust that he has.

Trust vs. innocence is worthy of additional meditation. I don’t think I want that innocence. Seems immature. But I don’t want it to morph to vigilance either. That certainly is no way to life. I do believe that my next relationship could be with H. It’s a scary, daunting, thought, but also hopeful. I seem to let all the hurdles get in the way of focusing on the hope: Feeling like everyone will think me making the biggest mistake of my life getting back together, the need for H to repair his relationship with D and S, their willingness to forgive, doubting that trust can happen, and fear that the old patterns will return. But, I will continue to work hard to stay positive, present, and not worry about all the what ifs. That is in God’s hands.

To me. Worry is not trusting God, and trying to take control. Why should I take on that burden when it has already been taken by Jesus?

My path is still just that. Mine. I will continue to enjoy my kids, my friends, my backyard, and my work. I will fill my days with things that are productive, and give me joy.

This Easter Sunday, I am thinking about the sacrifice that Jesus made for us, and the hope he gave for all of us when he rose again.

Life is good.

Grace


M: 56
H: 57
S: 22
D: 20

H Moved out: 10/1/18
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