Moving On Over to Surviving the Big D

[HaWho]

Thanks Bttrfly and Job.

Ownit - no, did not feel the need to bathe the dog, hah! Actually I was surprised to see him out. He’s a hypochondriac so it took me by surprise that he was out and about without a hazmat suit. He is definitely on the panic side of these sorts of things given his tremendous fear of death. I kind of figured he’d be living like the Once-Ler, you know, hidden in his house peeking through slats of the blinder.

As for the new relationship, in thinking about it, it is both very easy and very hard post marriage. It is easy because I come and go as I please; I sure do love that! This is especially true after the craziness I lived through the last years of my marriage.

Good news is this guy takes his Christmas tree down early January! (No Christmas carols play in March.). He is checking those boxes!

But, it is hard adding variables. He still has not met my kids. He agrees on this given the speed with which my ex introduced and married his mistress. So much change for my kids after so much stability.

These second relationships are hard in that we are not bonded over our kids in the same way as we were with the father of our children. It’s just different.

He has two children. The younger one and I hit it off very well. He is 17. The older is a daughter in college. She is 19 and she is very unsettled in herself. I would say alarmingly so.

It was clear when I met his daughter that she is a daddy’s girl and was jealous that he was dating. (I definitely don’t stand too close to any cliffs when I am around her.) I am the first woman he has introduced to his kids in the 10 years he has been divorced.

I feel like she works overtime not to accept me. She told B’s sister, her aunt, in front of B’s whole family that I take time away from their relationship. I was not present. I think she would not accept anyone. The aunt tried to tell her he devoted himself to them but they are growing up and has wants more in his life.

I give her lots of space. Mostly I DB her! She has a whole lot of growing up to do. She is more immature than the 17 year old. Honestly, she is less mature than my 14 year old.

Because the girl has often been without a present, stable mother, I think boyfriend overcompensated. I think he feels guilty she was without a mother and I think she takes advantage of it. His sister, in private said the same to me. It is pretty obvious. I do not say a word about the dynamic. But she is home now due to the pandemic and brings a storm of tension with her. She is not happy in herself. What has always been a calm house when she is at university is now rife with drama. She is difficult and makes most interactions so. Asking her to take a turn walking the dog causes code red like alarms. From her response you would think a defibrillator was needed. And because she overreacts to everything people avoid asking her to do anything. I have noticed his ex wife is the same so I wonder if this isn’t learned behavior.

So yeah, complicated variables for sure. I find myself exhausted by her. Which is why it’s nice to come and go. And this all before my kids are folded into the mix.

Boyfriend, is 10 years out from his divorce. We get along well. We share a few hobbies which make spending time together easy. Well, that was back before we were in full lockdown! He has intimated he wants something long term with me. He even suggested marriage. Every single guy I have ever dated has done this. I was straight with him that none of that is anywhere on my radar. And no, I don’t say that because I am playing hard to get. I am in date mode.

So thankful not to be living with an MLCer. Each day is a gift after that slog.

[OwnIt]

I'm glad to hear that it is going well and as usual you seem very level-headed in terms of how you are approaching this. Since you have boys, the D19 is probably a new experience for you. I have a D19 and can relate to a lot of the things you are describing here. I do think a lot of this is age and the way girls make that transition from childhood to adulthood. Mine will do great for days on end and the revert to bratty behavior for a bit. I think she just needs time accepting that dad has a life and when she finds her own, she'll be glad of it.

[bttrfly]

And because she overreacts to everything people avoid asking her to do anything.

BINGO.

[Believe6]

Love your story and your strength. How are you doing during these interesting times?

[HaWho]

Believe - I guess on the bright side, when we get through this we all sure do have quite a story to tell!

I am doing pretty well. So far we are healthy and ok.

On the post MLC front, things are sort of interesting. I was going to give an update.

My ex played Disney dad upon move out, due to guilt I am sure. He married his mistress a few months post divorce and so I know my kids know he was having an affair. When he moved out, I was having some behavioral issues with my older s who did not want to clean his room.

On three occasions my older s called my ex who picked him up to get out of cleaning his room! Disney dad to the rescue! I called my ex out on trying to be s’s buddy rather than a coparent and father. And I finally called my kid out of his manipulative behavior and told him parents should not be picking up kids to get out of cleaning their rooms. It was a rough couple months with my kid. My s would leave to get out of doing chores and me ex would tell me I had to apologize to s if I wanted him to come back?!?! Apologize for asking him to do chores so he can come back and live here without lifting a finger? Uh, no thanks. Never apologized and s just came home after a few days of me ignoring it all. S came to me a few months ago and apologized and said he wanted a better relationship with me! He now cleans his room when asked!

Fast forward to this week. It is my ex’s turn to have the kids for Easter and their break. I had them last year. A few days before the break I learn from my kids that ex said they were with me for Easter and the break! How can ex not remember he did not have them last year? It is an extra 11 days.

So I tell the kids they are with him. I doublecheck the schedule even though I know I had them last year. This is where it gets interesting. My older son says we don’t need to mention it to ex! He says they want to stay here. Well, well, well. Guess that Disney dad routine did not work out for him. I heard both kids quietly agree not to mention the mix up to their dad so they could stay here.

I was unsure of what to do. Should I tell ex? In the end I did nothing. It is ex’s responsibility to read the schedule and pick up his kids for his time. Part of me wonders if he really misread the schedule. Two kids in lockdown 24/7 with a new wife probably pops the romantic bubble. And his place is small. Ex would not order takeout due to pandemic so cooking will fall on his new wife who would be taxed to the max. My boys eat around the clock!

Guess it does not matter the reason. Just thankful to have the extra time with my kids. And yes, I do feel vindicated. His stupid Disney dad routine did not work. And as they get older I think they will understand more and more how nuts their dad went.

Thanks to KML who always said the kids act out on the safe parent and to wear it like a badge.

Oh, and at last drop of ex still had a decorative holiday candy cane outside his door! Maybe he does not realize it is Easter time Job!

[Believe6]

HaWho, you are right that your xH should have been responsible enough to check the schedule. It's good though that you get extra time with your kids. They do grow way too fast and are soon out of the house. I know as my S is a senior and will be heading off to college in 4 or 5 months. My stomach hurts just thinking about it. But I know that they need to have their own lives. Just cherish each day and each moment. Even when they are acting up or driving you nuts. Be the good parent you are and continue to remember the moments. It matters. It's one way that I am doing self-care. By being present when in the presence of my kids. They like to do their own thing, but even in passing if they let me kiss them or tell me they love me... i hold on to it.

It's funny, even at my age, I know my parent look forward to me reaching out and communicating with them. I am building that bridge with my kids so i have that when they grow into the amazing adults I know they will be. How do I know? Because they are the best kids in the world. I am just hoping this experience with their H will not create a new pathway for them down the road. I don't want to pass MLC on to either of my beautiful kids... nor have them commit to someone who may have it.

But then, we can't protect them from everything. All we can do is try to be great role models and be there when things get tough. Sending blessings!

[kml]

Hey girl, how have things been going with that guy you’re dating? Everybody still healthy in your world?

[HaWho]

KML - thanks for the reach out! I was just thinking of you because I remembered something you suggested to me in the midst of my ex’s MLC and I wanted to tell you I am pretty sure you were right.

A few years into our marriage I accidentally cut the back of my calf, an inch long cut but not deep. My ex was all over this and kept suggesting I see someone to fix it as it would scar. And even after it did scar he was always on me to fix it. It was bizarre to me as it was no big deal. I never even see it as it’s on the back of my leg! I remembered it only because my new guy, when he saw the scar, said “what a great scar! What’s the story behind it?” And that was so vastly opposite to my ex who always, now I realize, wanted me “perfect.” And this was something you picked up on.

Yes, all are healthy in my world, thank goodness.

I am still dating the same guy. We have taken up biking as that is Covid friendly. We were up to 40 miles/week, spread out over 3 bike rides. I am down in SoCal like you, but further south I gather. So we usually bike from Carlsbad to Leucadia, order take out and bike over to the beach where we eat on a park bench. He brings a speaker that he puts on his bike (where the water bottle goes) and throughout we listen to a great playlist he puts together. Last week, the music drew a few other bikers to stop by our bench, pause by the ocean, strike up a conversation with us and thank him for providing the vibes.

He is an easy person with whom to get along. I am thankful for that after my ex.

This week one of our pickleball courts we play at opened up. We have come back to the courts and play w/masks. That is no easy feat. But it is great seeing friends again and I am just thankful to be able to play.

The guy has kind of joked about marriage, saying my sisters will want him to put a ring on it someday and I have joked back saying no, that is the last thing my married sisters would want as in fact they are jealous of my freedom! No Disney view of marriage being the be all end all to happiness is happening here! After running what felt like a three legged race with a maniac of an ex, I quite like the arrangement of having the freedom and flexibility to come and go as I please. Plus my support is quite solid from my ex and I have zero interest in tampering with that.

He intimates maybe we will live together in the future. It is just not on my radar. I am happy as is. I married too young and was quite sheltered as a teen so I have no interest in being bound again. Plus blending families is complicated. Plus support. I want to keep things light.

As I have mentioned in the past his son and I hit it off. The boy is grateful for anything I do for him and it makes it easy to want to do more for him. The guy’s daughter who is 19 is a little tougher. And sadly, there is some trauma there from her mom which makes me have a lot of compassion for her. This r has taken more work on my part. I have tried different strategies to try to build something with her. She works overtime not to accept anyone into her dad’s life. When I say something funny and everyone laughs she actually works hard not to laugh. Poor thing is cutting off her nose to spite her face. And losing the joy of laughter to boot!

But things have improved. Just before Covid struck, she had a friend over who cooked us all an amazing vegan meal. This friend was a few years older and vastly more mature. She took the time to get to know me over the meal. And we really hit it off. Actually, I can get along with most anyone which was a sharp contrast to my ex who always had people that avoided socializing with him.

Anyway, the friend stayed visiting for a weekend and we saw her for a few more meals. The daughter left to go be by herself during the meals and my guy, this friend and I sat around laughing and talking. At one point he went and asked his daughter why she was by herself and she said no one was paying attention to her. She is quite immature. He told her she needed to make her presence known as none of us were going to beg her to join us. She opted to stay by herself. Her loss. But when the friend left the daughter did. become warmer towards me. Something changed. Either she saw that I am no witch as her friend and I had no difficulties getting along or maybe her friend even told her some positives about me?

Since then things have been easier with her. There’s really no reason for things to be strained other than her creating them.

I still have not introduced my kids to him. I just feel they needed a lot of time to heal especially given that my ex married his mistress before the ink was dry on the divorce. Sheesh. I am thinking maybe end of the summer? And I do want to show them a different sort of man and a contrast to the r my ex has with his mistress/wife. Pretty sure he got a you g thing he can boss around. My ex has gotten quite machismo and opinionated and insecure. This guy is very secure and has no desire to assert his ego into situations. It would be good for my two boys to see that kind of man. And it’s refreshing!

I have a friend I see weekly or so for walks (6 feet apart with masks) or we meet at one of our houses and sit outside 6 feet from each other. She is part of my “quaranteam.”

All in all, things are pretty good so far.

[Gerda]

HaWho -- I am always glad to see you post. I came late to your story and still haven't read all your threads but we seem to have so much in common in MLC world -- and I always just liked you so much as a person in your posts!

I wanted to ask you something but I don't know if it's better in my own post, so I will post it in both and if you ever have time to answer, you can answer wherever is better for you.

I am thinking a lot about my past with my H, and I was thinking about your sitch too -- as once someone said something to you about how it seemed like your H had a psychotic break of some kind, in addition to MLC. I always thought this of mine too. But lately I am sifting a little bit through some of my past with my H because he is conducting such a horrifically vicious divorce (to the point that I wonder at times if he is capable of violence) that I started to wonder if there were seeds I missed along the way. For one thing, I started to think about how his obsession through MLC was over money and thinking I was hiding his money or controlling it, etc. but with no basis in reality. Looking back over the years, I realized I could not say that this seed wasn't there from our first days dating. I realized that when I met him, he was deeply in debt and had run up a huge debt on his mother's credit card to pay tuition. His father had just found out and he and his mom were in big trouble about it. It caused a real rift with his already estranged father -- and his wounds are all father-based. During MLC once I found the OW's credit card info scrawled in a notebook, he had already convinced her to pay for something -- this pattern of convincing people to help him out of his financial messes. He convinced his friend, the godfather of our kids, to PAY FOR HIS DIVORCE LAWYER!!!

Once we were a couple, I helped him pay off his debts -- not with money, but I mean by organizing payment schedules for him, etc. Early in our relationship, I remembered that I had paid off ALL my debts, including student loans, and I felt so free and so light. I was a teacher, not making much, and had gone to grad school that I had to pay for most of, but I worked a lot, and I was very frugal. And then the blur of my life with him began and it was a life of financial risk that got us into property ownership and businesses but that kept us in debt. He was always talking about what a whiz he was but looking back, I realized it was always me who made things happen, he had ideas but no facility with money. He would never do bill paying stuff with me, wouldn't help with taxes and would freak out whenever I tried to explain financial realities, even before MLC. Once MLC hit and he stopped working, started stealing money from our biz and our home, all financial reality checks would end with him screaming to sell our house, so I stopped telling him anything, and he began saying I was hiding and controlling all money, even if I did try to show him again and the house-selling-yelling would begin again. We own two properties and both mortgages are in my name only because his credit was so bad -- our rental place upstate doesn't even have him on the deed! I realized he never worked to get out of debt, let alone to buy me something I needed, like a coat, and was always pushing us to the next thing. This is just one example, and I don't want to believe the history rewriting either, but I can't deny this truth. And I have started to wonder if he was always NPD and that I just had my own wounds and didn't see it. I know he was different, looked different, acted different, but I have started to wonder if there was some mental illness all along, and it was so much like the mental illness in my house growing up that I somehow was drawn to it without realizing it was the same.

So I was wondering if you have had thoughts like these about your H and whatever his big issue was, that the seed was there all along, or was it a complete alien to whom you had known.

I don't mean to obsess over the past, but I am sifting in order to understand my own wounds and the choices I made, so I wanted to ask you about it, as our sitches have been so similar and even started around the same time.

[HaWho]

It's been so long since I updated. But I think of this place and you all very often.

Quick recap on the last 6 months of my life:

I caught Covid in late June. I was sick at home for a month. I had a very painful headache that lasted for nearly a week, mild fever for a night, lost my sense of smell for 5 days, had very painful muscle cramps (like someone was stabbing my calves), fatigue, brain fog, shortness of breath (this was the worst symptom) and a cough that lasted 3 weeks. Thankfully, all symptoms did pass. My heart goes out to those who were not as fortunate.

My younger son caught MRSA a little over a month ago. His dad had him that day and had taken him to a drop in clinic (out of network!) at onset of symptoms thinking it was just an infected cut. He was given an antibiotic that was supposed to reduce swelling by 20%. In the AM, the swelling had doubled. His dad brought him back to that same out of network clinic, wracked up a 600 bill and called me in a panic to ask where he was supposed to go. I told him what place was covered and he asked me to come handle it all as he was frustrated and clearly in over his head. I said gladly. He seemed very frazzled. He fears hospitals and aging and sickness.

I took my son to the ER where we learned it was MRSA and he was hospitalized for 5 days. Thank goodness he received wonderful care by a team with an amazing infectious disease, internal medicine and ortho surgeon. I slept alongside him on a small but quite comfy bed. Because of Covid I was not allowed to leave or re-enter the hospital. I was the only guest in the entire ward (because he was a minor I was allowed; VERY thankful for that). I was allowed to go to the cafeteria as it was in the same building, and thankfully offered me a nice long walk where I would go get ice cream and other such treats for my son. Most heartbreaking was all those patients who did not have the ability to have visitors.

While I was there caring for my son I was texting updates to their dad. We have zero contact normally. During this time he said the first nice thing he has said to me in 6 years. Well, sorta nice. It still was padded with an insult. He said "even though I can be a b!tch, I am so glad you are the one there with him." I wrote back and told him no one had ever said I was a b!tch, even his own family said I was amazing. And that is the truth. Everyone, even people in his "camp" say I was a saint. And I told him I was so happy to be able to take care of my son.

Somehow he then proceeded to bring up how much I spent on a lawyer during our divorce, as though I am the first woman ever to secure counsel during divorce. Ha ha. For the first time I called him out on his affair. I told him he has some nerve complaining about me protecting myself from him and all the spending he did on his mistress. I told him he was a liar and a cheater and the best thing I ever did was hire a lawyer to protect myself from who he had become. I also told him he was a mirror image of his dad who had a MLC and married his affair partner who even had the same name. I wasn't mad, just fed up with his inability to see himself for who he had become. At one time he understood that what his father did was wrong and hurtful to many, many lives. He is not one to point out any faults in others. And I was tired of staying silent at all of his nonsense. He didn't say much back. Did not defend himself. If offered me some closure to call him out.

My dog was diagnosed with a terminal tumor last week. Heartbroken. He lived to full life expectancy and was healthy to the end. Vets said to put him down within two weeks. Ex and I agreed on that Friday. Saturday AM I woke to the most bizarre text convo from him. He had copied the kids on it, too. He sent me a super long, rambling text saying he was not going to put the dog down as he seemed happy and was now just an old dog?!?! He said if we just treated him as old, he could live like this for months. Did he just forget that we sought 3 different opinions and all vets said the same: he has two weeks at best. One vet is his sister-in-law! From there conversation became super weird.

I waited a day and texted back that the issue was not just that our dog was old. The issue is he has a really large tumor that causes fluid to build up in his lungs, his breathing will grow increasingly labored, he suddenly had no appetite, was losing weight fast and was sleeping a lot. And I reminded him all three vets gave the same independent diagnosis. I knew this would be hard as he is so afraid of death.

He texted back that the dog just ate a huge meal. Then one minute later "actually he did not eat much." Huh? Then minutes later he said "his breathing is great!" And less than one minute later, "actually he is short of breath." Huh? I suppose he was struggling with denial.

I reached out to his sister-in-law and again asked her opinion. She said even if the dog was very sedentary, there was a good chance he could die gasping for air as the tumor was on his lungs and she said that would be painful. I told ex that. I said it might happen when the kids would witness it. It was be painful for the dog and scarring for the kids.

He lashed out and told me not to contact his family or else he would reach out to my sister! My sister-in-law and I text very frequently. We are friends. (And good luck on reaching out to my family!)

I wrote back "go ahead! Do you think there is anything you can tell my family that will make them stop loving me? I love them unconditionally and vice versa. What is sad is how you deploy the same emotional blackmail that was deployed on you as a kid." And it really is sad how dirty he fights. Even sadder is that he learned it from his own mom doing it to him. He wrote back that he was kidding and just trying to lighten the mood. I said "I don't believe you were kidding because you have often gone really low like this." He then told me he was a saint for dealing with me. I said no one ever said he was saint, not even his own family. And I told him to look back at this conversation and ask himself if a saint would threaten to call someone's family and try to turn them against a family member. He is no saint. He needs a truth tranquilizer.

He said let's stick to the dog. I said I was and told him look back at convo and see who brought emotional blackmail and family in it. He did not answer. He is the fire starter.

A few hours later he agreed again to put the dog down. And we did so last night. He passed away peacefully.

When we were at the hospital ex said he wanted the ashes when speaking to the nurse. Later he asked me if I wanted 1/2 the dog's ashes. I said no. I know the remains are important to some. My sister holds her dog's ashes near and dear. It just does not happen to provide me any comfort. He turned to go back to the person he was speaking with but he before he got there he came back and asked if I wanted to bring the ashes to the ocean. I said no. I was confused. Did he mean together? Or he would give me some of the ashes? He seemed to want me to help him make a decision about ashes I did not even want.

I remembered when his grandmother died and we went to visit her grave for the first time. He was well into MLC and years into bomb drop. When he thought I wasn't looking he took some of the dirt from her grave and put it in his pocket. Just odd.

It was sort of strange to be with him when we put my dog down; like being with a stranger. I was there for the dog. I felt no need to comfort him or to have him comfort me. That ship has long sailed and I have no interest in who he is today.

After my dog passed I said goodbye to the front desk gal and nothing to him. It should be strange given we vowed ourselves to each other. But it is not any longer. It's stranger to think of him as anything more than a stranger.

Though it's been a tough few months, I am well as are my kids.