Glad to see you are back on the boards - especially if you find your anxiety spiking again.
I don't know if I've posted this to you before, so forgive me if I already have. Remember that WASes or MLCers are on a very extended timeline. So when you speak of 9 months, it really is a drop in the bucket for this thing - and it is very possible that the reason that your W is ill-informed on the process is because she still has no clue what she wants. My sit had been going on for 20 months. That I know of. And my W told me at BD that it had been nearly 1.5 years even before that that she had been "feeling differently". So take that into consideration.
Also - don't forget that this has no basis in logic. If you read your posts, you will see that you are rooted in logic - indeed you are the captain of logic here at DB: you want S, then we have S. You want D, we get D. I get L, you get L, we go to mediation, we sign the papers, we are done and we go our separate ways.
That's logic.
But W is not operating on logic. I think you can see that very clearly.
Here are a few questions to ask yourself: Do you find it odd that W has no clue what is going on? Why do you think that is? Is she behaving like the person you knew before all this went down? Do you think it is based out of spite or vindictiveness?
I say all that not to get you to change the outcome of your sit. It will be what it will be. But I say that to show that your anxiety is elevated because you are still quite attached. And making decisions quickly when you may not be ready for them is probably not going to help matters.
I dont know what the answer for you is, U - you'll have to figure that out for yourself. I know you need to worry about your finances and your kids, that obviously is top priority. But I would caution you to remember that your W is absolutely not thinking with the same logic and reasoning that you are. And I think understanding that will help you a lot going forward.
Food for thought...
Take care buddy - stay safe with all this craziness out there.
Here are a few questions to ask yourself: Do you find it odd that W has no clue what is going on? Why do you think that is? Is she behaving like the person you knew before all this went down? Do you think it is based out of spite or vindictiveness?
Point well taken that she is not operating in a rational way at all.
My anxiety is not rooted in attachment to my W. It is rooted in conflict avoidance. There is some upcoming conflict that is likely unavoidable, but will also cause a lot of pain. I don't want to handle things this way, but I am reaching the point where I have no choice. When conflict arises in my life, I instinctively think "I'm in trouble". It's a reaction based in my childhood, and something I continuously work on.
Back to my W for a second... I don't have much empathy anymore. She wants to keep the house, have me be an "every other weekend" dad, and pay for her lifestyle as much as possible. She used the threat of abuse allegations in front of a mandatory reporter to get me to agree to lousy terms when we separated, and then now says she is "confused" if I want something different. I don't think she is vindictive, though -- I think she is in fantasy land. It almost makes things worse, like she is totally oblivious to the fact that accusing someone of abuse MAY make them feel pressured into making different decisions in order to keep the peace, save money, or avoid dragging their kids through a torturously emotional process. It would be easier if I saw her as vindictive.
I understand she is operating on a completely different wavelength. That's fine. I no longer spend time wondering why. I used to spend a lot of time thinking of all the possible reasons (perimenopause, depression, MLC, moving, unresolved issues from childhood). It doesn't matter. Even if I could get over the resentment I am building up, I don't really see her as having the relationship skills I would seek in a new partner.
I also would say that going through this situation has made me rewrite history a little bit as well. Some of the little things that used to be brushed aside look more and more like red flags for the more glaring issues. It's not as simple as "let's just hit rewind and go back to 7 years ago". She would need to change fundamentally just as I have. I imagine for those of us who end up piecing, this is one of the main challenges. Again, I don't really spend time thinking about this.
You asked one other question about whether she behaved like this before the situation. The truth is: She did, towards other people. She does struggle to accept responsibility for her role in interpersonal conflict. She has cut friends out of her life when conflict has arisen. Of course some of this is a positive trait -- she is strong-willed, determined, etc., and those are traits that drew me towards her.
I think sometimes you really do a good job at bsing yourself. You’re w is trying use false abuse charges against you and have you give up more then 50/50 custody. That’s being vindictive!
I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I actually believe it when WASes say they are "confused" - at the moment they say that word. That is not to absolve them of any wrongdoing or an attempt to whitewash the things they have done, or to suggest that they are confused all the time. It is just what they are feeling at the moment.
I say that because I have done a LOT more reading than posting here over the past few months - past situations that worked out and those that didn't, going all the way back to remnants left from before everything was purged.
It has opened my eyes quite a bit. While everyone's situations seem to be broadly the same, there are subtle but distinct differences in between the age groups - younger couples, middle age ones, and ones near retirement age. I find myself smack dab in the middle age group.
Some of the resources are quite helpful in showing that what is going on in the MLC (or mid life or whatever you care to call it group) is really all about what the WAS is going through. Yes it affects us, and yes we get the brunt of everything, but that happens to an overwhelming majority of us. The allegations, the gaslighting, the blaming, it is all part of a pattern that simply justifies the decisions that the WAS is making. We are collateral damage.
Why do they do this? Well, unless they are truly vindictive and out to get revenge, none of it makes any logical sense. Because it is a phase, a depression, something they have to deal with - and since no person wants to admit they have issues with themselves, it is much much easier and more convenient to blame someone else, to project your problems, and who better to blame than the person that is closest to the fire, right?
Your W is not thinking about anyone other than herself right now. Neither is mine (though recently she seems to be showing the occasional glimpse that she's beginning to think of others again). Its a part of the process, and it is a very long process for those of us who were in long-term Rs. I finally get what the vets were talking about. It is a marathon. And you have to be very very patient.
Anyway - I wrote all that to say that you probably won't understand why your W did what she did for a very long time, if ever. Me too in my sit. And it is also going to come as a giant shock to your W when she finally realizes the decisions that she is making are about to have huge consequences. I was fortunate to have stuck it out at home (even though I felt like bailing) and laid things honestly and directly out on the line with my W. It did scare her some - how much remains to be seen.
Your W hasn't had that jolt yet. I'm sorry for what you are about to go through, but it is all part of the process. That's why I suggested to you that you may want to make sure you are ready to deal with all these legal things. I am learning every day how to cope with my anxiety - it is a messy process and doesnt always work. But I am making less missteps now - and I think you can get to a place like that as well. It does - however - take patience and time.
Ok I've blabbed on long enough. Take care of yourself - and remember the future isn't written. It doesn't have to go badly if you don't want it to. You control you
IW ~ Here's a simple version. We moved, away from my W's family. She became distant and depressed, I became frustrated at our lack of connection. There was tension. At some point she fell out of love with me, she has even told me the date. One month later I grab my son's leg in the car to stop him from hitting his sister, and she calls it abuse. A few months later she calls me financially controlling.
I don't care if she ever has the jolt of recognition about how she is justifying her actions to herself. I doubt that she will honestly. Worrying about that is a waste of my energy and time. I need to focus on how to rebuild my life, and stand up for my rights as a father. I don't want it to be this way, but I have no options (other than continuing to accept things the way they are).
The whitewashing, gaslighting, wild narratives -- she can have those. She can project onto me everything she thinks about my inner character - (her words) controlling, disrespectful, untrustworthy, abusive, delusional. It probably does help her feel justified and righteous and that is great for her.
It is awful and I don't like the direction things are going. I know I have control over myself, but I also feel I have no choice. I know you went through this as a kid and it was awful for you. It's also completely reasonable for me to want equal time with my kids.
Just wanted to make sure my post didn't come off as pushing you to do anything. I hope you didn't take it that way - and I realize I injected some of my situation into what I wrote. I think we all do that because we a have different experiences. At any rate - I apologize if I offended you - that wasn't my intent at all
Originally Posted by unchien
IW ~ Here's a simple version. We moved, away from my W's family. She became distant and depressed, I became frustrated at our lack of connection. There was tension. At some point she fell out of love with me, she has even told me the date. One month later I grab my son's leg in the car to stop him from hitting his sister, and she calls it abuse. A few months later she calls me financially controlling.
This is all textbook WAS behavior. I never really wrote about the majority of my experiences because they happened before I joined this forum. But I had the same kinds of things happen in my sit. I had a car incident where my W freaked out when I missed an exit, and another one where we were simply going to get groceries where my W and I were arguing and then she freaked out saying she was trapped and didn't feel safe. There are more examples but i think you get the idea. I let my anxiety build over these things and I let them control me for the first 6 months.
That was her reality - however skewed it was. It was a highly emotional time and W was thinking emotionally, not rationally. That doesn't make it reality, though - and all of us - i, you, we all choose how much significance this makes in the rest of our life.
Originally Posted by Unchien
I don't care if she ever has the jolt of recognition about how she is justifying her actions to herself. I doubt that she will honestly. Worrying about that is a waste of my energy and time. I need to focus on how to rebuild my life, and stand up for my rights as a father. I don't want it to be this way, but I have no options (other than continuing to accept things the way they are).
I should have clarified - I meant the "jolt" as in a glimpse of what D'd life would be like. A breaking of the fantasy - the hard cold facts of doing everything alone with no support. My W still hasn't had that awakening of the justifications.
Originally Posted by unchien
The whitewashing, gaslighting, wild narratives -- she can have those. She can project onto me everything she thinks about my inner character - (her words) controlling, disrespectful, untrustworthy, abusive, delusional. It probably does help her feel justified and righteous and that is great for her.
It is awful and I don't like the direction things are going. I know I have control over myself, but I also feel I have no choice. I know you went through this as a kid and it was awful for you. It's also completely reasonable for me to want equal time with my kids.
I see your anxiety and anger, U - and that's perfectly normal. I won't push you on this - it's good to get that stuff out. I do however gently remind you that in life, there are always other options.
IW ~ I don't take offense at all, and if I come across as angry that's not my intent.
She is still in fantasy-land and doesn't realize the impact of divorce on her life, and if it wasn't impacting me as a father and financially, I would probably just let things go for awhile. But those 2 impacts are enormous, and my efforts to change them are met with heavy resistance. The more patient I am, the more those things become status quo and precedent and the more resistance I meet. I'm not locked into one particular approach but my options have been narrowing.
My favorite wife freak-out (since you shared some good ones): I came home from the grocery store (before I moved out), and she had asked me to pick up some lettuce for salad. I knew that she didn't like what I had bought the week before (spinach), but she wouldn't tell me what she did like, so I bought 3 kinds. I asked her, "Which one of these do you like?" and she wouldn't answer and then out of the blue she screamed loudly "It's all fine is that enough reassurance for you?!?!"
It's weird living in this world with a person who has a completely difference image of you. Not easy, hang in there bud.
Tomorrow is our 3rd mediation session (this one via teleconference). Things are very tense right now in my situation. I woke up this morning feeling panicky and overwhelmed, which happens one or two times a week. I hope to address 2 critical items tomorrow, but based on how mediation has gone I worry about making meaningful progress. I fear we will accomplish nothing. To date, we have agreed to work on selling the house, which I guess is progress although given my W could not buy me out I don't understand why we needed 2 full mediation sessions to come to that agreement.
The alternative to mediation, if and when I decide it is not working, will be the more legal route. Given my W's history of accusations, I am absolutely petrified. I am prepared to defend myself for what I believe is right... I also absolutely do not want things to go that way. It seems really pointless and wasteful. It would get ugly and nasty and expensive for no good reason.
I decided to make a thought record, something my IC has encouraged me to do. It helps sort out the distorted thoughts from the rational ones.
It is completely normal for me to feel overwhelmed. I work full-time, I moved out of the marital home, I don't have a large network of friends and family for support. I've been living a temporary life for almost a full year now. I honestly don't know what my life will look like in 3 months, 6 months, a year. I am a flawed person just like everybody else. I'm doing the best I can. Add in the threatening dark clouds always hanging in the air that my STBXW will leverage my apology letters against me, and it's completely normal for me to be fearful at times.
Some people in our situation would simply agree to the reasonable terms I am looking for. I am not unreasonable. Just because I have not been the primary SAH parent doesn't mean I am unworthy of being a 50-50 single father. Sure, it will be challenging, and the life my children would have had with married parents will be different now. That is okay. Perhaps they will become more resilient, more self-reliant, more accepting and tolerant of change. Maybe not.
I don't have my life path fully laid out. Nobody really does. In the meantime, I can take little steps every day to enjoy life. Go for a walk. Clean out the garage. Connect with an old friend.
I've never felt more alone than the past year. This is HARD. It's okay for me to feel overwhelmed sometimes.
Absolutely you are not being unreasonable wanting your children 50% of the time. I would add that your w trying to prevent that from a loving father is criminal.
It is completely normal to feel overwhelmed but those feelings with subside.
I wish I could find a path forward to get agreement on some of these issues.
Mediation is moving slowly and meandering around. (I understand there is a pandemic, but it was moving slowly beforehand).
I want to avoid a costly legal battle for many reasons.
L's will tell you to word things very strongly and protect yourself, but that is not necessarily conducive to working to an agreement. But if I offer a reasonable solution, then I am starting from a point of weakness (if this turns into a negotiation).
