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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Day 14 of ???

Thanks bttrfly for the encouragement. This stuff isn't easy.


No it isn't, but a long term healthy relationship is worth the hard work.

Originally Posted by AndrewP


S messaged me in the late afternoon that she'd found her ring. Phew. Even though I treated it as "no big deal" it is something very symbolic to me and I believe to her as well. I just made sure that she knew that I had complete confidence in her being able to find it. She is a "Mom" after all and has been finding things that nobody else can find for decades.

According to "math" we've been dating either 6 or 7 months depending on how you count it. Limerence is largely a memory for me although I do go gooey from time to time still. I hope that I can approach things fairly objectively. As has been suggested, there is a real possibility that S is a variety of love addict. She certainly gives the impression of feeling things very strongly. She self-identifies as a "highly sensitive person" and that is one of the traits. Despite some outside perspective she doesn't jump from person to person and has at least in recent years had long gaps between relationships.


I think it bears watching on your part, Andrew, as I think you may be on to something here.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

I can't be completely sure how S is feeling about everything. I'm sure she was upset and disappointed as she said. I honestly can't recall suggesting that she not continue to stay over before she left in her huff last Friday afternoon. Perhaps it was all in her head (?).
I take it she said that you suggested she not continue to stay?

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I do know that she was frustrated by the fact that even though we were both in the same house that I spent all my time during working hours doing - you know - work. Then after work it's cleaning, cooking, taking the dog for a walk and all the usual household stuff.



Ok - here's my aha moment. How is this (working, then chores, etc) any different than what would happen in your ordinary, every day life? Granted, you would be working outside the home most days, but all the rest, the boring, mundane activities of everyday life ... that's where the rubber meets the road. That's what life will be like once she's living there, once you are married.

I don't know too much about love addiction, but this complaint smacks of someone who is in love with love, the limerence part of love, and not so much understanding the rest of the love package. And if that's the case, then there is work to do here, on her part Andrew, not yours. Does this make sense to you? Everyday life is boring. It's mundane. It's downright grueling at times (like now). Love isn't always 'pay attention to me' and roses and champagne. It's a bloody lot of hard boring work that you're happy to do together. Together being the operative word.

BTW - I hope she wasn't complaining about you walking her dog???

Originally Posted by AndrewP


I suppose she could have been doing some of that but I'm not going to push her in to a domestic role and I enjoy doing the domestic stuff so why push someone else to do what I like doing other than to make more time for the two of us. I had maybe asked about what was up with the boys and if she was going to get S13 from his Dad and that got interpreted as wanting her out? There's no winning on trying to figure out that sort of stuff.


Andrew what does she want to do when you're together? What's her ideal activity? What's her plan for household management now and after you guys start living together?

As far as her interpreting that you wanted her out - is this gas lighting? - I think she's put out that you are not as easily manipulated as she expected, perhaps not even on a conscious level.

Originally Posted by AndrewP


I think part of the issue we are having is that I've been very vague on what moving in actually looks like and the timelines. S had asked me at one point some months ago to make a list which I did and we talked about. She didn't do a list. Mine had things like doing redecorating and getting her dog registered with the township etc but no specific dates. It didn't have anything for her side of the process as that was "her side" and for her to take care of. S is very much a "list" sort of gal though. I think we need to talk and work together on a list with timelines and such. That will also help the boys I think so that they can see concrete information on where and when things will be happening.

No.
You did the work. You made your list. She needs to pony up her own list. Get where I'm going with this? It's about her fully stepping into the responsible parts of a relationship rather than all the lovey-dovey limerence crap that is nice, but fades quickly. She really needs to make her own list and then you need to sit down together as adults and compare lists and do whatever it is you guys need to do to come up with a plan. She is not a list gal, as portrayed here. She's a giving orders and not acting on any gal. Maybe unfair, but that's how I'm reading it.

Originally Posted by AndrewP


Her S17 might not be moving in after-all. He has an offer from a buddy to move in with him and S is in favour of it. Buddy's parents travel a lot and are absent for months at a time (????) and they have I believe a loft apartment that S17 would be in. Not my kid and S seems perfectly comfortable with this idea. Given though that plans have changed a couple of times in the last few months I won't be shocked if they change yet again.


Let's be clear for a second: the world, as we know it, is in lockdown for the foreseeable future. No one, imho, should be moving anywhere right now, until this pandemic is past, the dust clears, and we see what kind of physical, economic and emotional state the world is in.

Originally Posted by AndrwP


S25 and I had a chat over dinner last night (ham, mashed potatoes, veg with cheese sauce. Sparkling juice for accompaniment). He commented on how when he was a student with room-mates that girlfriends seemed to always be just moving in absent invitation. He was saying that they had a perfectly reasonable house just a few doors down but for some reason wanted to be in the over-crowded guy unit. Perhaps this is a thing? Women moving in unilaterally? It more or less happened to me with my ex when as soon as I signed the lease on a new apartment for me after we'd been dating for a few months started packing her own stuff.
smart young man there.

Originally Posted by AndrewP

He's really looking forward to being on his own. He said that work is going well and that the heated forklift (which he now is certified to run) isn't worth it as part of you gets slightly warm and the rest freezes even more. He expects to pass through his probation period without issue especially since they've already completed the paperwork. He's seen several people churn through the warehouse since he started making him not the most junior. Most of them are young people marking time before they move on to "something better". S25 is happy with a steady pay-cheque and the fact that he'll have benefits in just a week or so. He said that he expects to be working there for the indefinate future and that he works with guys who've been there 20 years and made a good life out of it.

Not sure what his mother thinks of all of this but I've certainly been supportive of this attitude. Not everyone needs to wear a bow tie every day and take conference calls. There's no reason why he can't have a very good blue collar life. His mother used to always push the kids for "more" and to look for that next brass ring to grab.


It's his life and up to him to find what suits him. I'm glad he's found something that suits his current needs. Where he goes from here is an open road of his choosing. We parents always want something better for our children. I think we need to want them to find something that makes them happy and is in alignment with their needs, not our own.
Originally Posted by AndrewP


I think my vacation coming up is going to be both a challenge and opportunity. There is so very much to do around the house and maybe I'll even do it. I have a huge stack of books both physical and electronic that I can read as well. The framing of the rabbit hutch is now done and it needs probably another 4 or 5 hours of work to finish. I sent a picture of it to S last night and she and S17 are very excited. It's bloody huge. S25 and I leaned on it and held a beer and debated if it would fit out of the cellar door. I made reference to the one time his mother helped me carry a small sailboat I'd built out of the door and how proud she was that she hit her head (she's 4' 11"). I'm finding it easier to talk about her and the past with him.

I'm sure you're being able to talk about his mother with him in an easier manner is very healing for him. I know it is for my son.

Have a good day Andrew. I'm proud of you for asking yourself the harder questions, taking a step back and giving yourself space.


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Originally Posted by Ginger1


And no, women don’t move into to a guys house unilaterally. Especially with their children and pets. That is not a thing, nor should it ever be a thing.


agreed.


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Just an observation. It almost seems like S has little interest in work or the day to day. She doesn’t want to work or be tied down to a full-time job. She doesn’t want to work to keep her house clean. She doesn’t want to work at even walking her dog. And somehow she’s figured out a way to get away with living like this. I guess more power to her if she can get someone else to do it for her. Thing is, that doesn’t seem to be true because now it would seem she doesn’t want YOU to do these things either. She doesn’t want you to work - rather instead you should pay attention to her. She doesn’t even want you to take care of the dog - HER DOG. Was it not one of her children that pretty much did the same with their own pet who then soiled the carpet in a bedroom? Where did he learn this behavior?

You’ve got to be seeing this Andrew. You may be a lot of things and you and I, well you and many guys, might be VERY different people, but you are certainly not lazy. You are not a, whatever, it will work itself out, kinda guy. It just seems one thing to want or expect you to take care of her and most everything necessary to life but then a whole other to be upset with you when you do.

I really wonder if her moving in BEFORE you get married is perhaps the very best thing that can happen. I get the very strong feeling that if she does, you will really rethink getting married. I think you are already starting to see her view of what married looks like is vastly different than yours. It would seem something much the same happened with B.

One last thing, was it not S17 that you’ve been building this big rabbit hutch for - by yourself I might add - and now S17 might not even move in? Just what will you do with it, or can it be moved to his new location?


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I wondered the same about the rabbit hutch and I worry that the rabbits might still move in without S17 and make yet another thing that Andrew will have to take care of. I totally agree with Don. Andrew, please be careful.


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I might be wrong, but I thought the rabbit hutch was being built for S13.

I agree w/Don on the fact that by her moving in partially and then possibly totally later on may just give you the bird's eye view of what marriage will be like, not only w/her, but w/all of the baggage she's bringing right along w/her, i.e., her children, pets and all of the stuff that she really does need to go through and determine what is actually needed going forward in her new married life.

I realize she has some health issues, but when you are working from home, you are still working, it's not a day off, per se, but doing actual work and being in contact w/your customers and superiors. While you are working, she could either be working on her hobbies or even dusting, straightening up and yes, even walking the dog. Even though school has shut down due to the virus, she should be working w/S13 as much as possible on studies so that he's not too far behind when school resumes. Maybe my expectations are too high.

Something to consider...is she going to pack herself up every time she doesn't get her way?

Andrew, do not sell yourself short, you have ambition, you are an intelligent man who loves to travel and try new things all of the time. You love being able to help others, etc., but please, have her make her list. After all, marriage takes two people to make it a success. How will you know what she wants/expects from the relationship unless she prepares a list? Her list may be in her mind and it could very well change from day to day and her expectations will not revealed until you falter, stumble and say enough for the time being.

Had you told any of us that you needed some quiet time and/or space, I seriously do not think we would have been upset by the request. It's normal for people to want to have some down time or even quiet time to just relax and read a good book or watch a good movie. Try to remember...it's not your job to keep her happy and entertained. She's a grown woman and can figure out what to do w/herself when you are working from home or enjoying some quiet time by yourself. Enjoy that quiet time now...because once the crew moves in, there will be no rest for the weary or quiet time.

Stay safe. Also, she and the kids needs to remain in one place until this crisis is over. People feel fine and don't realize that they may be carriers until it's too late.


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Originally Posted by job
I might be wrong, but I thought the rabbit hutch was being built for S13.
The hutch is for S17 who is going to need it regardless. His bunnies are emotional support animals that help him cope with anxiety issues. They currently live in an open pen in his room that takes up a massive amount of room and is hard to clean.

It's been a fun project. It's nice to get down into the shop and create especially since I've been largely making it up as I go based on what I have in the scrap lumber pile. I do need to get info on how wide a "standard" rabbit still.

I've also re-learned where the low spots are in my basement workshop as the bumps on my head make it seem that I am doing some home-phrenological rework. According to the image on the Wikipedia page, mostly in the areas of wit and language. Maybe that will help laugh

I'll definitely talk to S about her working through a move-in plan. There are so many moving parts involved that even I have lost track.


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Andrew,

One question. If S17 is going to move elsewhere...are the bunnies going w/him or will they remain at your home?

Yep, lots of moving parts to work through and figure out how to make them all work, i.e., just like a jigsaw puzzle. I have no doubt that by the time June comes, you will have it all figured out and will know how to proceed.


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Originally Posted by job
Andrew,

One question. If S17 is going to move elsewhere...are the bunnies going w/him or will they remain at your home?

Yep, lots of moving parts to work through and figure out how to make them all work, i.e., just like a jigsaw puzzle. I have no doubt that by the time June comes, you will have it all figured out and will know how to proceed.
Thanks job. The bunnies will be staying with S17 wherever he ends up.

Last day of work before vacation. Lots of crazy going on at work and in the world. It will be nice to be able to turn at least some of that off for a while although I just had a conference call scheduled for next week that I can't miss. Some tempers are rising a bit fast at work as well - best to stay out of all of that.

S invited me over for home-made chili last night which was quite tasty. She's put the onus back on me as far as the move-in timeline goes. Her - rather valid - argument was that it's me that is hesitant and wants to go slower. I think she and S13 would be here right now given the opportunity. I was rather shocked going in to her apartment as she's done an amazing job of tidying and organizing in the past while. S17 was there as well and pestered his mother that she really needs to be at "Andrew's house" so that he can have the place to himself. Some of it in good nature but there's a bit going on there than perhaps meets the eye. I'm keeping out of it and not trying to understand or analyze. Since S hasn't been going out and neither have I, I only had mild concerns about violating social distancing restrictions but it is in the back of my head constantly. S13 is still with his Dad out at the lakefront cottage that his Dad rented for the winter. No clue when he's coming back although his Dad generally shows little patience for having any of his kids around him for any length of time. By all accounts they are having a good time playing video games and board games and S13 going for wanders on the deserted beach.

So - the plan for right now is to make no promises, announce no timelines until I can get it figured out for myself on what I'm comfortable with. I've been given the responsibility to make these decisions and there's no need to force anything. I did tell S that she was of course still welcome to come over to putter around here or have a soak in the tub and to overnight too. We ended on a fairly positive note, essentially taking a step back about a month where I can have a run at this again. This time knowing where the decision making needs to happen given appropriate consultation and communication. And I won't be making any decisions until I'm ready to. I know where I want to get to as a family with S and one or perhaps 2 of her boys living here, with S25 coming and going from his own separate place, living a modest quiet life with the occasional grand adventure.

Vacation should be busy-ish. There's a lot to do around the house and I'm hoping to tackle projects beyond the original plan. I may remove the last 2 false ceilings put up in the 1970s which will change the feel of the kitchen certainly and help when the summer heat comes in. I found out yesterday that the ceiling fan / light in S17's room at the apartment quit working some time ago so that needs to be fixed. Since both parts quit working at they believe the same time, I'm concerned that it may be a loose power connection and given the way that those are supposed to be wired it could be a fire hazard left alone. It's been broken for quite a while though so as long as it's not messed with all should be good. Hopefully I don't need to buy a new one but will bring along a spare light fixture from the ones I have in the shop to swap in if needs be.

S and I are going to go for a nature walk out at the farm tomorrow afternoon keeping proper spacing from my brother's family. I'm really looking forward to that. S intends to give a particular tree a hug - she is a literal tree hugger. It's the largest recorded ironwood tree in Ontario. We'll also be looking around to see if we can be inspired for decor for her D25's wedding scheduled for mid-June that may be postponed. There's a small beach down by the river-front and mixed cedar and hardwood throughout. A bit early for the trilliums to be up yet. The wild turkeys should be underfoot. There was a black bear sighting a mile or so away too recently so we'll be socially distancing ourselves from that sort of encounter as well.

Keep safe and sane everyone.


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Day 2 of vacation. Another glorious sunny day here in Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan.

Planning on keeping busy despite the things I'd planned on doing while I'm on vacation being cancelled. Both sessions of the regional science fair, the get-away for S and I, visiting friends and picking up girl guide cookies etc. I just messaged my friend who supplies me the cookies asking if I can just send her money and she'll hold the case of cookies for me.

Getting some things done around the house was also on the list. About an hour after my vacation started I pulled out my ladder and pulled down the drywall false ceiling in the front hall stairwell. From an old newspaper that had been shoved into a corner to fill it up for plastering, the ceiling was done in late April 1955. That means that the wallpaper that I've been living with in the upstairs hallway is just slightly newer than that. I suppose it's time. I had to have a "sit" afterwards as it was a pretty high stress operation which is one of the reasons why I've not done it for 30 years. I am terrified of heights. I have some ideas on how I can safely get up to the now exposed ceiling for stripping wallpaper and patching the plaster which is one of the things that had held me off of doing it too. I'll probably pull down the false ceiling in the kitchen in the next few days too and now that these projects are started, they'll give me some focus continue to get these things done.

My phone just asked me to confirm if I still had a job / my work address was right. Sigh - yep. He knows when you're sleeping, knows when you're awake.

As an aside, one of the papers I found had a headline about the Salk polio vaccine just being rolled out in 1955. I sometimes think we've forgotten more than we've learned about how to deal with infectious disease.

S and I had pre-arranged to go out to the farm as I mentioned yesterday. What a glorious day. I introduced her to a couple of trees that are important to me and she gave them hugs. We took her little malti-poo with us who had a super time buzzing around at great speed from one puddle to another then rolling in the leaves.

There was absolutely an underlying tension going on especially on S's part. When I suggested we not go down a steep hill because of her bad back she reminded me that it's her back and she should be making those choices. Sigh. She has definitely cooled towards me a touch but given how warm and in some ways clinging she was this is perhaps an OK thing. Certainly she wasn't cold towards me by any stretch. Perhaps I'm not quite so the absolutely perfect man she thought I was (?) crazy

We did say "hello" to my youngest brother and my nephew from a distance and had a quick visit. They seem to be holding up reasonably well. My brother is still working at the nuclear plant but his wife's wellness home-based business is shut.

I suggested we go back to the house and give the dog a wash in the laundry tubs and then make some dinner. We discovered lots of burrs in the dogs fur and there was lots of brushing and a fairly thorough second dip in the tub when we discovered that bears and other creatures do indeed [censored] in the woods and that she had rolled in it. We couldn't decide what to have for dinner that was based on the ingredients I had and I also was wanting the day to just be a "date" and so did an online order of pizzas which we picked up through a small hole in the plastic sheeting at the pizza shop's counter, and went back to the apartment and ate with S17.

I think I now understand something more about what's been going on. A lot of the pressure for S to move in here comes from her S17 who really likes being on his own as long as food is provided. He does have some diagnosed mental health issues which are generally controlled by various meds including one where he is quite argumentative. I don't know the names etc and trust that the proper medical people know what they are doing. S says he's been doing a lot better in the past year but with all the nonsense going on especially with his work hours, he's not been as consistent in taking his meds. While we were eating he was very aggressive in pushing that his mother needed to go to my house that night as he had plans to do some loud online gaming. This explains in part why S has turned one of the rooms into a refuge / craft room where she can putter and watch TV in peace. And perhaps why she was here so much before. Easier to go somewhere where she was wanted and it was peaceful. I can understand in part her annoyance and hurt when she was "booted out" of here too.

S deflected S17's push for her to come over last night to me. I told her that I was staying out of it. She asked directly if I wanted her to come over. I countered that perhaps we could go to her craft room and "hang out for a while" and that maybe she could come over another night. She seemed fine with that.

She's planning on coming over sometime today and since it's a nice day, do some laundry and hang it outside and probably stay the night. Her child-support is supposed to be in today and she'll also pick up some groceries which she is running very short on. I'm presuming she'll go back to the apartment the next day. S13 is still with his Dad and by all accounts that is going far more smoothly than any expected. Usually they can only manage one day and it's been more than a week I think.

Well - time to make another pot of tea and then start my puttering. I want to pull everything out of my drawers and re-arrange them. I'm just that exciting. I think it's safe to put the garden hose back outside now and there's a huge amount of yard work to do.

Stay safe all.


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Despite what I like to think of as my ability to communicate clearly and effectively, it's pretty obvious that at times I fall flat on that particular skill set.

S stayed over last night and it was pretty clear that there was tension between us.

To make a long story short, she had been under the impression - based on the words that I had been saying for some time - that she could move in whenever she liked. She was very confused, hurt and upset when I pushed back on that. I expect that a lot of the tension was that she was worried if I could be trusted. Something we've both had issues with other in the past.

I'm grateful that she is willing to talk things out and to be fairly patient with me. It really comes down to the whole (I'm doing self censoring here) [censored] or get off the pot. On my side I've been hoping for more clarity in what is going on in the world, and what is going on with our respective sons before absolutely committing to things. As I've written here before, the streets are paved with hesitant squirrels.

So - the official move-in date is the May long weekend. She's annoyed because since she didn't give her notice a couple of days ago and was pretty dismissive of the fact that this gives us lots of time to get the stuff out of her apartment and get it ready for inspection. She figures she can move in a "very" short time.

So - it's done. It took a lot of courage for me to make that commitment but now that it's said and even written on the calendar, it will be so.

I told S25 about it as he was going out to work and he gave me a "whatever" shrug. He then gave me a hard time about going grocery shopping asking if I'd waited a full week (I had). He then gave me heck for wearing a mask - mollified when I told him it was my "buff" microfiber bandana thing that I had from when I had long hair. It's designed to be folded to make a 2 layer mask. He was concerned that I had gotten masks which should have been kept for medical staff. He felt that it was pretty useless based on the "common wisdom" from the CDC a short while ago. He didn't know that official opinions were changing. I made sure to take the gloves off before touching anything inside the car turning them inside out before putting them in the garbage and removed my scarf not touching the front and turning it inside out and putting it in the laundry to be washed before re-use. I only have a few more pairs of gloves around from the workshop so may have to consider other options. Very thorough hand washing after I put away the groceries.

Nervous times out there shopping. S's D19 and BF saw me at the grocery store parking lot and laughed at me with my covered face and gloves but appreciated me staying safe. A few people were wearing gloves and one other person a mask. One of the staff that I asked a question of and joked that I wasn't holding the place up seemed pleased that I was wearing my scarf.

More and more I'm realizing that this is going to be going on probably through the summer. A lot of "normal" won't be. S and I were talking wondering if the garden centres will be open for bedding plants. Probably not.

Well - enough for now. I'm going to start working on a stew for tomorrow night's dinner. I have a soup bone that I'll bake as part of that and for S's wee dog to get as a treat later.

Stay safe and sane everyone.

PS - if anyone sees doodler, let him know I said "hi". I wonder if he's found himself a berthing and is sitting off-shore somewhere. The place isn't the same without him here.


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