Quick recap— found out my H had been in a 2 year long-distance PA at the end of December, after months of trickle truth (first ILYB, then an EA). 2 kids. After the final BD we had a few weeks of torture when he couldn’t decide what to do except that he wanted us to figure it out together (remaining “best friends” with me was a non-negotiable for him, which obviously was not going to happen if he left). I had read DR in April after the first BD and put a number of the DB strategies into play, and then found this lifesaving board after he told me he had an “emotional connection” with someone in August, so have been doing my best to DB for wow… the better part of a year, now.
We saw a discernment counselor in January and he decided to end the A and work it out with me, though not because he was choosing ME so much as choosing our life together with a focus on the children. He’d probably seen her 12-15 times over the course of two years but was ready to throw our entire R away and was very ambivalent for a long time (they’d been “trying” to break up for the entire second year of the A).
He went to her city on a business trip six weeks ago and asked me to let him end it with her on his own terms and not dictate anything, which I agreed to, since it was all outside of my control anyway.
He’s been NC for a little over five weeks now. We’re still seeing the counselor (well we were, at least, before everything changed this past week with the coronavirus pandemic) which has shifted from DC into… not really MC yet, more like facilitated/structured communication in preparation for eventual MC.
Things are generally very good between us. The coronavirus situation seems to have brought out the best in our R and he’s been very supportive, kind, funny, helpful… kind of like the perfect H except that the romance part isn’t there between us. Lots of acts of service (my primary LL), not a lot of physical touch still (his primary LL). Pommy, you'd asked me about that-- should I respond-- I feel like I did previously and he kind of reacted weirdly, like he wasn't doing it on purpose and it freaked him out when I acknowledged or touched him back. So I've been kind of playing it like I don't really notice. After MC a couple of weeks ago he told me he was having a hard time with the romance part and I have not pushed that at all. I’ve been frankly amazed at how well we’ve repaired after a couple fights, and overall in the day-to-day, when I’m not remembering about the A, we are better friends and partners than we’ve been in a long, long time.
But… we aren’t talking about what happened. We’d been mostly only discussing it weekly in MC and now that is probably on hold for awhile. MC had counseled me to relax and that this will all take time, H is grieving, not ready to dive into real MC yet and work on building M2.0… but I still have all these unanswered questions about the A, and about my H (why this happened, how i’ll know it won’t happen again, etc ) plus just a lot of unprocessed anger and grief about the fact my H had been in a relationship and believed himself to be totally in love with another woman.
We briefly talked about it the other day— he suggested maybe we each see the MC on our own for the next two weeks and we can figure out what to do after that— but I’m not sure we’ll even be able to do that (maybe over the phone?). I said maybe we should just find time to talk about it in the evenings after the kids go to bed and he said “can we get through all this coronavirus crisis first and then deal with it?” (smh)
I’ve been thinking about the A more than I like to. He definitely seems to be in a less “precarious” place than we was in the first couple of weeks after ending the A, when he was saying things like “you won.” I’d found some sappy Spotify playlists with love and break-up songs on it that were shared with one other person (the AP), which really drives me bonkers as H and I share a Spotify playlist and so since I figured out what they were, I now scroll down every time I open the app to see if they’re still there. (They are.) When I’d asked him about them a few weeks ago at MC, he was very much in the “I don’t want to do anything because you told me to” mode and was upset that I was focusing on things like the playlists rather than his presence (I’m here, I’m wearing my ring, I’m at MC with you… these are the things that really matter, I could delete the Spotify playlist and make you happy but it won’t mean anything, blah blah blah).
When we had the conversation about how to handle the MC a couple of days ago, I said there were things he knew he could do to make it better, and he said what? I mentioned the playlists and he looked surprised and a little embarrassed and said, I had forgotten about those, I never listen to them, I can delete them, there are just a few songs on there I like that I’d kind of like to move somewhere else. I didn’t say anything in response.
Generally, I feel like I just need to continue to be patient and like the MC and my DB coach have said, focus on our friendship for now. I want to keep reminding myself to focus on what I can control (myself) and what I can’t (H plus the craziness in the world right now) and also to be grateful for all the progress we have made. I recently re-read some of my journal from the fall and the pain and confusion was so deep… I am definitely in a much better place now than I was then, and I think about what if the coronavirus situation had hit when he was still in the A and how awful that would have been…. so I’m grateful for that, even if we aren’t where I want to be, yet.
So. I know what I want and what I’m not seeing from him yet… and I also definitely see small positive change in the right direction these last five weeks. GALing seems impossible right now. I got the girls to do online yoga with me (H actually joined in too), which was nice, yesterday we both did a ton of yardwork and today H spent all afternoon making an amazing bolognese sauce. The grocery stores in our area are out of flour so no more baking We’ll be WFH and no school until at least April 30.
Anyway, been thinking about the wonderful community here and hoping people are staying safe and healthy. virtual hugs.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
How's it going? It's weird coming back here occasionally. It sounds like your situation is progressing okay. Remember I told you I had a similar affair to your husband's. It takes time to put them behind you. Nothing to do with you. From what you describe, he seems to be doing well. Cut him some slack, he'll get there. Glad to see everything is okay. Stay safe.
May, it sounds like you guys are doing relatively well. You have all the time in the world to just take things slow and see how your H progresses. I’m happy for you that you are able to see things with PMA.
And if you guys are in lockdown and things are still going well, that says something about your relationship doesn’t it? Lol!!
Thinking about you! I keep wondering how every one being trapped together is effecting every ones sitch. And I miss the time to chat with every one....ugh these people are around all the time Hope you're doing well.
I miss you all too. It seems so weird that now that the only way to connect with people is online it is so much harder to get to this community! I think it is because we are all together 24-7 now and I am never, ever alone. I am kind of terrified that one day I'll slip and my H will find this site... not that I've said anything here I wouldn't want to say to him directly, but I feel like this site is MINE and something I just don't want to share with anyone but you guys.
Things are good between us. I feel like we've all had a good attitude and are making the best of the situation. Breaking out more board games, watch a movie every night (we all now take turns choosing since getting everyone to agree on the same movie was ridiculously hard), cooking together or taking turns, reading, yoga, and WFH. The problem is more me... I am still thinking about the A way more than I want to, and he really doesn't want to talk about it. He feels like we have this whole stretch of quarantine ahead of us and doesn't want the additional stress of digging into the whole A situation. Can't we wait till it is over? And I *know* I am still in a DB-ing situation and should focus on myself and not on him... but he just still isn't showing the contrition he is supposed to in order for us to really move forward and start working on M2.0.
I talked with the MC on my own this past week, which wasn't really all that helpful. Takeaways included him saying "well, you don't actually know he is NC with AP" which totally threw me for a loop and led to an R talk that evening in which H got kind of annoyed at MC, felt it wasn't fair for him to say things like that without H there to "defend" himself, and underscored the reality that H is simply not ready to really engage with the fact of the A and how it has affected me. I think MC is trying to continue to get me to focus on what I can/can't control and not trying to push the timeline any faster than it is prepared to go on its own (again patience and letting go of control not exactly my forte, though getting better at it through this whole sitch).
On the upside, in our R talk (even though it was uncomfortable) we did come to an agreement about what would happen if AP reached out-- H agreed to not answer the phone and to talk to me about it before responding. H was still so focused on himself through the whole conversation-- it took me laying out "OK, think of it like this. She calls, you don't answer. I feel decent about it even if angry she called because you didn't pick up and talked to me about it first. Like we are partners in this. She calls, you answer (he had said he might answer because the only reason she might call is if it were an emergency) and then I'm super pissed. I'm your wife, I'm the one you should be most worried about feeling decent since I'm the one you're living with..." and he said, yes, OK, I see that. I agree. But even his whole body hunches and cramps over when we start talking about the A at all and he is just all over the place. (Yes, I know a few weeks ago you guys were like why are you talking about what happens if she calls because of coronavirus and STOP DOING THAT.... and here I went again.)
So... it has now been close to 3 months since I found out about the extent of the A. Six weeks now since he returned from his trip and he has been NC with her since then (I believe it, also because there is literally no way he could possibly be in contact with her for the past two weeks at least since we've been together 24-7 and talking, looking at each others' phones/computers, etc). He feels he is here and being the best dad and husband he can be. Which is true. He really is. But what should I be doing? I am having a hard time not thinking about the A and AP, maybe partially because we are together all the time and it keeps hitting me over and over that he had a relationship with another woman, and isn't so, so sorry and saying it was a huge mistake and he is so thankful that I stood for the M.
I feel like I *should* just continue to focus on myself and what I can control (me) and the friendship between us. But can we get stuck in the friend zone? We have slept together a couple of times but not as much as during that weird (maybe hysterical bonding) period after the last BD. I can't really act mysterious or be on my own at all. Any suggestions are welcome.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Do you guys have you own time together doing things when the kids are in bed? I think quality family time needs to be distinguished from quality romantic time.
When you say your H is not ready to engage in A talk and how it affected you, have you been honest and forthcoming with him about your feelings about A when those feelings come up? I understand that he might not be ready to talk about it, but is listening and validating YOUR feelings too much to ask from him right now? I don’t know if that would be the right button to push, but if I were you I’d have a whole lot of build up resentment from trying to refrain myself from letting my feelings known because he is not ready. It is completely reasonable that you are still haunted by the thoughts of AP, esp with H in your face everyday.
May - kudos to you for being so strong in all of this.
I wonder if the whole feeling trapped piece of the virus is working against him in that - he doesn't want to fully admit the extent that the A hurt you because he can't escape being confronted with it, so is just putting it on hold indefinitely? (I am not doing the best at using my words here but hopefully you understand what I am trying to say).
I am sure it is hard to get emotional distance from a lot of this stuff when there aren't regular markers of time like certain social things, etc. And probably A LOT of free time to think about the A on your part just because it's there and harder to get any kind of distance from.
Re: friendzone - do you think you're subconsciously holding back b/c of A stuff inside? Or do you think he is? Or you both are?
Wooba-- we do have time together after the kids go to bed, usually a couple of hours. Sometimes quality like drinking beers and chatting, sometimes we are both on our computers working or he's watching TV and I'm reading, probably most often somewhere in between the two-- watching a show together with drinks, some chatting. He is way more solicitous of what I want to do now than he was (during the A he would just turn on the TV to whatever he wanted to watch; now he picks things he thinks I'll like, asks me what I want to do, etc). We have been spending some time planning for the big summer trip together which I know he really enjoys.
For me, I don't know that I've been honest and forthcoming when the feelings arise. Most of the time it is something that comes up during the day that makes me think about it but the kids are around etc and it wouldn't be appropriate to say something. But it is definitely on my mind much more than his. For instance, yesterday we had this conversation about what restaurants we will want to go back to first when everything opens up. He mentioned one that we'd gone to for lunch on Valentines Day a couple of years (or more) ago, and I immediately wondered if he'd been in the A when we went there. I asked him what year was that? with the A 100% on my mind (I honestly can't remember if it was two or three years ago) and he responded, I think a year ago? totally innocently and it made me realize he wasn't thinking about the A at all in the context of that lunch, whereas it comes up for me all the time.
I think I probably haven't brought it up in a "I'm having a hard time and having these feelings" kind of way, which he might respond to well and listen and validate. I think every time we've discussed it without the MC there, it has the feeling of some pressure on him, either why did he do it or what he should/could be doing now. I don't think that comes necessarily from me-- he immediately goes there. The other night it kind of came up sideways, I didn't want to talk about it and left the room. He let me be for a few minutes than came and hugged me. We didn't talk about it but I did feel better and we went back to what we'd been doing before.
Sam Cal-- I definitely think there is truth to his not wanting to engage with how the A affected me because of the situation. When we do talk about it, he just gets so defensive and upset. I told him I didn't think he could fully process my pain right now because it would be too painful for him. He said OK, then maybe now isn't a good time for us to get into this. Not sure if he thought there was any truth to what I was saying or simply using it as another reason to push off any real discussions. He has said that he thinks I need to stay sleeping (I'm finally back to sleeping a full night, which hasn't been the case pretty much throughout this whole thing) and he is worried that if we dig back into this I'll regress to not sleeping at night. I can't tell how much of this is truly caring about me and how I am doing or the fact that I'm not fun to live with if I don't get enough sleep. I think a combination of both to be honest.
I think he is worried about how much quarantine time we have in front of us still and is really worried about how it would go if we weren't getting along, and worried that talking about the A will dredge up bad feelings. I guess what he isn't fully understanding is that those feelings are right there under the surface for me. And yes, much more time on my hands with him right in my face all day long to think about the A. It is almost harder right now because he is being so great in every other aspect of our lives together, kind and jokey and thoughtful, acts of service all day long, to look at him and realize that he had cheated on me for so long.
Re the friend zone-- I'm not holding back but I'm not pushing either. I told him at the end of the R talk night that I still wanted to have sex and he picked me up and put my over his shoulder and went to the bedroom.... so that ended up fun... but I'm generally not really wanting to be the instigator since I don't fully believe he is back to desiring me the way I would want to be desired. This is a change from three months ago after the last BD, when I really felt like I was interested in sex for the sake of exploring my own sexuality and he was the most available partner and I didn't really give an F what he was thinking, except for some satisfaction in knowing all the stuff he'd said about never being able to have sex with me again was total BS.
Now, I still have that desire for myself, but it is complicated by the fact that I do care more now about how he is feeling (or not feeling) and it doesn't feel sexy to push myself on someone who isn't really interested back. (of course, this is what he's told me he felt for years with me, and I fully get the irony of the situation. But it still isn't fun.) And I do think back to him saying those things about not being attracted to me, and then the fact that he slept with AP, and then I'm just not that interested unless he makes the first move. Which happens occasionally but not as much as I'd like in this new space where I am with desire.
His primary LL is physical touch. I talked about this a bit with the MC in my solo session, and he said he thinks what is identified as primary LL sometimes has more to do with what is missing than anything else. (He said he doesn't really use the LLs in his practice.) Regardless, I know that PT is important to my H and always has been. We used to trade backrubs every night back before kids, and this week I suggested we start that back up, since we can't go get massages and it is a small thing we can do for each other during this crazy time. He was a little weird about it at first but we're now doing it regularly, and it is so worth it from my end, even if he was weirded out about the original suggestion. I think it might be because giving me backrubs used to be a precursor to him initiating sex and (I'm not proud of this) in the depths of the SSM he would start giving me a backrub and I would say I'm not having sex with you! and he would say OK. I'll just rub your back. Ugh. Typing that out made me feel horrible.
Anyway. I don't know if that is part of it or if he's thinking of AP (who he told me at one point loved to give him massages and didn't ask for anything in return, giant eye-roll, if that isn't proof enough that it was a total fantasy I don't know what is!) but it is part of the reason I want to dig into the infected garbage of the A and get it all out into the sunlight and lysol the crap out of it. Otherwise every stupid little thing in our R will be tinged by this worry of what is going on in the other person's mind. He doesn't like to admit it but he thinks it too... he asks what I'm thinking, looks at me all the time to gauge my reaction to things happening on the TV, very very curious about what I'm doing every time I'm on my computer.
Well, that was a lot longer response than I intended it to be. And I feel badly because I know a lot of you guys are dealing with far more difficult situations than I am. But I really appreciate the ability to reach out to you all and know you care and are there.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Hi, may. I just want to say don’t feel bad—all these situations are difficult and svck in their own way. Sometimes I leap ahead for a sec and just think, How could I ever trust my H again? And then I push that question away because there’s no point in worrying about that now. My point is that side of R seems impossibly difficult to me, and I’m just glad you have support in trying to navigate your experience of it, from MC and here and a little bit from H, hopefully more there as time goes on and he is able to come to terms with what he did and how it has affected you and the M. I don’t have any answers, just hugs.
May do you know in your own mind what it is you want to discuss re the A? I know you have mentioned previously, for example, wanting to know how they communicated. Do you have a list of things in your mind that you feel you need to know? (Not suggesting you post them here of course!) Have you written them down and considered them one by one?
Where does your MC stand on disclosure (as in should it happen inside or outside of therapy, and what is the timeline for having those conversations)? Is he leading you down the path to structured disclosure? He no doubt recognises H’s reluctance in divulging details and the potential reasons why (such as protecting your feelings, fear that you will never be able to forgive, shame, embarrassment, previous lies being uncovered, etc). Im just wondering how he sees disclosure happening in an environment that’s safe for both of you?
Re the friend zone and worrying about pushing yourself on someone who doesn’t want you back, this is the exact place I was in. So ironic that H was having sex with me out of obligationlast year (or simply rejecting me), after all those years of me doing the same to him. It was impossible for me to navigate and in my case his heart wasn’t interested in rekindling desire.
Because you have pulled back recently, do you think H is worried all over again that you have lost interest and is fearful of you rejecting him all over again? I think you did a great thing telling him you wanted sex...and you got a response. Does he need that reassurance from you that you’re not going to reject him?
Sending hugs x
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
We’ll be WFH and no school until at least April 30.
Hope you're doing well.